Widmo.3186

Inb4 thread deleted... But tbh, is combat the only feature gw2 has better than other mmos? I mean, yeah, combat system in gw2 is good, but i dunno if its better, its just different. I feel like most ppl that say 'oh, ah, gw2 combat is so much better, dont even compare it to others' are kinda biased and said by ppl that didnt achieve or get into PvP in other games to high level. Just like ppl saying that LoL is much better than Dota, only because they feel overwhelmed by the UI and dont even try to understand how it works. Personally havent played ESO, but games like GW1, WoW, BnS, BDO, NwN and some others and I can assure you that there are games that are not gw2 that have combat on really enjoyable level (just without dodge mechanic and being dynamic in different matter).

GW2 is perfect, bots dont exist, cheaters dont exist, matchmaking issues dont exist. Conquest is just brilliant game mode, after 8 years its still awesome, no need for any further updates. And balance...what can I say, I wish real life was as balanced as gw2 is.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > I left this game completly some months ago, but I still come from time to time to forums and follow latest 'brilliant' ANet balance updates. Now Im truly amazed that after all those nerfs weaver received, obsidian flesh, sword condis, ToF, everything, still theres someone thats gonna complain how OP this spec is. > > > > Most of us already know it for quite awhile that theres no point of return for gw2 pvp scene, not only because company doesnt know what therye doing, but also because community is...well, you see what it is. OP this, OP that, im not willing to learn how this spec works and how to counter it, instead im gonna cry until they nerf it to the ground. > > > > Well, what can I say lads. If we came to a point where ppl cry about fireweaver once again, I feel bad for players that still think about gw2 as a competetive game, even in 1%, instead of a place where you can just troll around and kill time (like playing solitaire). Stay strong and keep believing > > You may think people are only whining about OP this OP that but you forget that's completely normal given that not "everything" was adjusted from the first patch, it's a work in progress and denying it just goes to show that you may as well not come back, your lack of comprehension and attempts to meme isn't working. Im not going to come back my friend, there are other MMOs that grant better feeling of PvP atm, but thats another story. I agree, balancing is constant work that must (or at least should) be done, and theres no way everything gonna be fixed in 1 patch. Thats obvious. But you can surely see difference between pointing out things that are overperforming and things that are just used by ppl that know what theyre doing. Otherwise we gonna get another exquisitive mirage-like treatment, to the ground. Weaver has just no better options than to be cheap and play piano. And condi is just cheaper version of the cheap, as usual. Lots of its power comes from passive damage, because thats how this spec was designed. Ofc, there used to be a thing called FA, but we all know what happend to it. This spec wont be a warrior that spikes stuns and then damage, wont be a thief/rev that goes in and out. Its a static bunker, because animations are too obvious and concentrated in a small area. So without changing its design, ppl will always complain about this type of gameplay. Its all about whether its usable or nerfed further into oblivion, because gameplay wont change. Dont get me wrong, Im not defending fireweaver. I hate this build, I played Weaver (power version) whole PoF, few k hours, but theres no way ppl gonna say one day 'okay, that build is finally fine' - or maybe there is, if its gonna be not usable again. PS: Oh, and almost forgot, Im not saying it shouldnt be nerfed. Nono, theres no such thing, Im just saying that we shouldnt listen to ppl that say its on old-Mirage level and should receive its treatment. Ppl that instead of learning how to counter it, gonna blindly stand in firefield and primordial stance, and the amount of likes this guy got just amazes me how biased community is

I left this game completly some months ago, but I still come from time to time to forums and follow latest 'brilliant' ANet balance updates. Now Im truly amazed that after all those nerfs weaver received, obsidian flesh, sword condis, ToF, everything, still theres someone thats gonna complain how OP this spec is. Most of us already know it for quite awhile that theres no point of return for gw2 pvp scene, not only because company doesnt know what therye doing, but also because community is...well, you see what it is. OP this, OP that, im not willing to learn how this spec works and how to counter it, instead im gonna cry until they nerf it to the ground. Well, what can I say lads. If we came to a point where ppl cry about fireweaver once again, I feel bad for players that still think about gw2 as a competetive game, even in 1%, instead of a place where you can just troll around and kill time (like playing solitaire). Stay strong and keep believing

> @"Ryan.9387" said: > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > @"MysteryMen.3791" said: > > > Also no one above gold 3 has ever wanted downstate removed, definitely not the old gw2 pros and the current top tier players. I have never once tilted because downstate existed but clearly you do a lot. > > > > Aaand thats not quite truth. Except for balance and lack of...interest from ANet side in PvP scene, downed state was one of the reasons why MMO PvP pros/players/etc didnt like GW2 PvP. Myself included, as a guy that came to GW2 from WoW and GW1 and played both of them on high PvP level. Over the years, many streamers that have multiple thousands of viewers in WoW (either playing pve, arenas or other things) or other MMOs wanted to try gw2 and in PvP almost all of them said that downed state is just...weird and not needed. > > > > Now hear me out, I dont say that downed state is pure evil. It makes game flow much slower, but you can get used to it and take advantage in conquest mode making other players useless for longer amount of time. Problem starts when we come across few things, such as ressbots. There shouldnt exist any, again, ANY skills, traits, whatsoever that makes ressing players faster than it is implemented by default. You use multiple CDs to burst some1 down, then comes 1 guy with one CD and just picks him up. No, if you wanna pick some1 up, you gotta go to that body, spend few seconds ressing him, popping your defensive CDs so you wont die either. Let me compare it to WoW where ress skill is 10 (!) second cast. Also there are hillarious downed state skills, such as rev slow, condi teef spamming 1 etc. Tbh I have no idea who designed them, but since the very beginning those are a joke (back in the vanilla days there were necro builds with downed +damage trait that allowed to deal same damage as if you were up, hillarious Karthus gameplay). > > > > The other thing is kinda more complicated, and its conquest mode as a whole. GW2 wanted to be a special kiddo where in most MMOs in ranked games you just have arenas or sth like that, 2v2, 3v3 etc. Its good, it works. But ANet made sth called 'cap and hold 3 circles for X minutes, have fun'. Over the years more and more ppl started leaving this mode because they just want to fight, they dont care about circles. They moved to other games, or to dueling zones, or WvW. Existing bunker and healbots aint helping either. So what ANet made? Hmmm, how about we admit our mistakes and make 2v2, 3v3 off-meta arenas? Yeah, right in time. But oh boi, what a clownfiesta those modes became. And again, while in conquest mode downed state can be either your advantage and disadvantage, in 2s and 3s there should be no such thing. If you die, you die, period. But thats just some offmeta gamemode that no1 cares about because there are no PvP devs in this company that can properly balance it and make arenas viable in gw2. > > > > tl;dr > > You see, GW2 was this one special kid in class that wanted to make things on its own. No arenas, conquest mode (arenas added later on), no raids, fractals and dungeons (raids added later on), no instant death mode in pvp modes, downed state (wvw 'no downed state' week events later on) and so on and so on. Ofc you can be succesful as special kid, bah, gw2 started as really succesful one! But lack of any interest from the company made this game what we have now, kinda dead, more and more with each day. Copy-pasting is easy way to make money, starting new meta is hard and lack of any commitment from devs side is just a proof that they shouldnt start anything new and just copy-paste and learn from big brothers because they have no idea what to do with their cake. > > > > > > Non gw2 streamers (and most of those too tbh) aren't going to be a good way to get gw2 feedback. Watching those kinds of players like summit, its immediately clear they're just tilted at being bad and don't have any interest in actually learning how to pvp. Its somewhat understandable given they're walking into an 8 year old pvp scene. > > Speaking of conquest. Forum posters begged for deathmatch and we got it. Anet put out courtyard and people hated it. Same with stronghold. > > Pvp's issues are deeper than downstate. Its a mess of slow balance tempo, unwillingness to balance classes to clear roles, removal of skill expression, power creep, and lack of dev support on the personal side. Downstate has nothing to do with it. Im not saying what happend in the past few months that summit 'discovered' gw2. Im talking what was going on in the beginning of gw2, when streamers from other MMOs wanted to try it out cuz it was promising (same as rn with Ashes of Creation or New World). Yep, begged for deathmatch and guess what, it wasnt balanced. They struggle with conquest balance, not even talking about other modes. And stronghold...really, MOBA inside of MMO? Kek. Downstate is one of factors, we got used to it but it doesnt mean it was right from the very beginning. It doesnt need to be removed in conquest, just balanced (like most things in this game, lmao), but if we would want other modes to be viable, it should be deleted from them.

> @"McPero.3287" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Gwaihir.1745" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > The devs don't use codes to give themselves items in game, that weapon and armor require a huge time sink to get...it's safe to assume that he's a guardian main..., as it has been admitted in the past by the devs, the more people play a certain class in the office...the more input it will receives during balance meetings AKA **bias at subconscious level** where a profession which should be nerfed by , for example , 40% will get instead nerfed by 20%. > > > > > > > > I won't call out any "hidden agenda"...I am simply pointing out the truth of the matter : the more devs play a profession, the easier it will get off the hook in a way or in another, meaning that **the nerfs will be always targeted in a way that the profession will remain at its peak**, it's common sense really, if the guy making the changes , plays also the class receiving them...well nothing much will change in terms of output > > > > > > > > It's no secret that **no dev plays ele actively**, heck "one dev" ( I won't give out names for obvious reasons ) was surprised about the elementalist low HP when he tried to showcase : Tempest prior to HoT Launch...people can find the video on youtube. > > > > > > > > Another class like guardian is **Necromancer** and by a small margin **Engineer**.....revenant is a rather..."shady business" and let's leave it at that. > > > > > > > > Am I wrong?...So what professions will I see being played during devs streams?...... > > > > > > By that logic guard wouldnt have seen its builds decimated and been relegated to a b-c tier otp. > > > > I spent close to 1k hrs on guardian, being it my 3rd main, even went as far as to craft a 3rd legendary armor for it, also I main ele on which I have 8k hrs and in the end I experienced nerfs on both classes: I "cried" for the soft removal of the hammer burst which was my first official to go build on guardian but that didn't stop me from using other different builds ...and that's the fact...**nerfs on guardian are always class tailored, so when you lose something ..you always gain something else** and that's the opposite of ele where when you get nerfed...that's it..there is nothing to cushion the fall, you lose that gameplay option forever...jump on the next viable build waiting for it to be nerfed out of existence also. > > > > So no...I don't need nerfs on guardian and I know exactly what you mean by B-C tier talk but that cannot stop me from telling the truth of the matter : "the professions mained by the devs tend to have an easier life in this game" and I have given a clear logical explanation on why that happens. > > > > If you are a dev and play that class, you know what it makes it rumbles...you know what it needs and in what quantities, so the nerfs are not as destructive as with elementalist : they merely nerf the class based on what is being cried on in the forum **without bothering to see if the class is still working after the change**; they increased the CD on Twist of Fate as people were crying....now the class has a full set of 60s+ CD stunbreaks......they nerfed **fire weaver saying too much burning dmg** while on guardian I can burn snipe people with Spear of Justice or torch or the sword spirit. > > > > The problem with this game and why I don't even bother with it anymore is that **the devs themselves don't play their own game and they "balance" based on forum cries** so what is not being actively used by few devs...get hacked to death with nerfs making the class virtually unusable...but all is fine as long as Timmy stop crying about it on the forum...that's what I mean with my posts > > CMC is balancing PvP and he plays the game so you are objectively wrong. You also have 25 second stunbreak that blinds inflicts vulnerability and gives you 25% movement speed out of combat. You have 30s stunbreak that increase damage on your 5 next attacks and they apply conditions, so don't say ele has just 60s + cd stunbreaks. Also CMC is a warrior main why is sidenode warrior not being played all the time by your logic that devs make their clases op? No true warrior main loves playing healbreaker support warrior that is best support in the game right now so don't give me that. His balancing is just like his gameplay mechanical skills, I wont say if its good or bad, if you know, you know. The thing that he played ele makes it even more hillarious after seeing 'updates' on this class.

> @"MysteryMen.3791" said: > Also no one above gold 3 has ever wanted downstate removed, definitely not the old gw2 pros and the current top tier players. I have never once tilted because downstate existed but clearly you do a lot. Aaand thats not quite truth. Except for balance and lack of...interest from ANet side in PvP scene, downed state was one of the reasons why MMO PvP pros/players/etc didnt like GW2 PvP. Myself included, as a guy that came to GW2 from WoW and GW1 and played both of them on high PvP level. Over the years, many streamers that have multiple thousands of viewers in WoW (either playing pve, arenas or other things) or other MMOs wanted to try gw2 and in PvP almost all of them said that downed state is just...weird and not needed. Now hear me out, I dont say that downed state is pure evil. It makes game flow much slower, but you can get used to it and take advantage in conquest mode making other players useless for longer amount of time. Problem starts when we come across few things, such as ressbots. There shouldnt exist any, again, ANY skills, traits, whatsoever that makes ressing players faster than it is implemented by default. You use multiple CDs to burst some1 down, then comes 1 guy with one CD and just picks him up. No, if you wanna pick some1 up, you gotta go to that body, spend few seconds ressing him, popping your defensive CDs so you wont die either. Let me compare it to WoW where ress skill is 10 (!) second cast. Also there are hillarious downed state skills, such as rev slow, condi teef spamming 1 etc. Tbh I have no idea who designed them, but since the very beginning those are a joke (back in the vanilla days there were necro builds with downed +damage trait that allowed to deal same damage as if you were up, hillarious Karthus gameplay). The other thing is kinda more complicated, and its conquest mode as a whole. GW2 wanted to be a special kiddo where in most MMOs in ranked games you just have arenas or sth like that, 2v2, 3v3 etc. Its good, it works. But ANet made sth called 'cap and hold 3 circles for X minutes, have fun'. Over the years more and more ppl started leaving this mode because they just want to fight, they dont care about circles. They moved to other games, or to dueling zones, or WvW. Existing bunker and healbots aint helping either. So what ANet made? Hmmm, how about we admit our mistakes and make 2v2, 3v3 off-meta arenas? Yeah, right in time. But oh boi, what a clownfiesta those modes became. And again, while in conquest mode downed state can be either your advantage and disadvantage, in 2s and 3s there should be no such thing. If you die, you die, period. But thats just some offmeta gamemode that no1 cares about because there are no PvP devs in this company that can properly balance it and make arenas viable in gw2. tl;dr You see, GW2 was this one special kid in class that wanted to make things on its own. No arenas, conquest mode (arenas added later on), no raids, fractals and dungeons (raids added later on), no instant death mode in pvp modes, downed state (wvw 'no downed state' week events later on) and so on and so on. Ofc you can be succesful as special kid, bah, gw2 started as really succesful one! But lack of any interest from the company made this game what we have now, kinda dead, more and more with each day. Copy-pasting is easy way to make money, starting new meta is hard and lack of any commitment from devs side is just a proof that they shouldnt start anything new and just copy-paste and learn from big brothers because they have no idea what to do with their cake.

We should just all switch to rangers, remove everything from keyboard except two keys. One for movement (W for example) and the other one for using Rapid Fire (by default its 2). Fancy 'pro gamers' can make macro so under key '2' you use like Sic'em, RaO, merge and then Rapid Fire. My favourite kind of gameplay, love it.

organized high end pvp in gw2 died about 5 years ago

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > > I am not sure how far cmc's plan goes and how many changes he will numericaly make but I believe that you can't make some proper balance with the elitespecs in this game, since they showed up the game went down in build diversity > > > > I'll be honest then: this isn't true. There wasn't more build diversity before they introduced the elite specs. > > You'd only have this feeling because players weren't as much reliant on Metabattle at this time than they are right now. Pre HoT, PvE basically had a single statset used, Berserker, and PvP wasn't faring much better. PvE meta was "rigid", WvW meta was the GWEN hammer train (until they changed stability) and sPvP was the flavor of the month meta. > > Does GWEN stand for Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, Necro or something? Its a tag of infamous old guild called 'I swear she was eighteen [GWEN]'

PvP engineer problem?  This whole class is a kitten problem (or more specifically, holo).

Was in need of nerfs? Yes. Was it nerfed proper way? No. Its like you go to a doc with leg infected by gangrene and he decides to cut it off. Problem is he cuts left one, while the right one is infected. Ups

No, the problem isnt attun CDs, if you know what youre doing you get to use your AAs 1-2s at best to fill gaps in CDs. Problem is somewhere else. There was a time slightly before and after february patch that I was angry at what theyre doing with Weaver so I switched solely to d/d core ele, still playing it from time to time. Is is out of meta? Certainly, you have to do everything perfectly in order to even stand against 'even' matchups on paper. You lack sustain, you lack damage, you lack utility. Basically whole world against you. However, just like all other specs, if youre good you can carry core to plat without much...struggle. But its more about punishing opponents and decent map rotation than what core is offering. Problems starts when you notice how many classes actually counter you, and theres not much you can do about it. Here you can have an example in WvW with wide stats selection, I also played decent amount of games in sPvP with like marshal or cele(kek) amulets, works similar. In 1vX (so basically teamfights) its not so bad either, of course it struggles under heavy focus but you can survive long enough to make other teammates useful enough to kill some1 from enemy team (also you have few AoE CCs like updraft that combined with shock aura makes deadly weapon which can be done solely with d/d, match it with fire dd burst and you get 10k aoe damage against squishes under 1.5s, juicy). Reaper is straightforward hardcounter to d/d ele, but its still not so bad. And if some1 was about to ask, yes, necro lad knows what hes doing, really good reaper. Conclusion - its not dead, but you have to carry your class, not other way around. Attun change wont do much, core needs boost in its vital parts to either deal more damage so you can safely build around sustain, or more sustain to build around damage. Atm you need to do both, which is impossible, and deleting more and more amulets aint helping either.

Wait .... 

Tradeoff is a nice word, but tbh idk what should be its definition. Lets compare it to the cars, its a tradeoff if u change better engine for better gearbox, but is it a tradeoff if u change one good engine into another one, that was created just by different brand? I wouldnt say so. Imo from your list what is a real tradeoff are - zerker (straight forward less toughness) - scourge (different playstyle, two specs with shrouds, one with barriers) - firebrand (not so sure about this one, but yeah, tomes grants so much to the table compared to core/DH that you can put it as a tradeoff) - mirage (probably the best example, mirage cloak for one dodge) - chrono (different shatters, no distortion for...idk, for something) Rest is pretty much just a straightforward boost from core with minimal, almost invisible disadvantage. Like cmon, DE? Its a different playstyle, by default should be played with rifle, thats why it has mark instead of steal. Soulbeast? Cmon, you cant swap pets, but beastmode grants so much that basically youre the second pet, same sh*t. Spellbroken? FC is your other burst. Scrapper? Pff, compare to core. Tempest? Marginal longer cds but you get overload and compared to core, straight boost. Druid? By default should be a healer, ended as immob spam clown, not really any lose.