Salt Mode.3780

according to spvpers it is a great game mode and is very much alive so i dont know why this thread is being made....there are no bots no hackers def no win trading or afkers.

As much as I wish this post will get viewed there is no point nothing is going to get changed and its not even me being pessimistic about it, just look at the history of mesmer. Anything close to a buff without a major tradeoff is not going to be bothered.

The whole point is mirage dodge is stationary which requires jaunt and other utilities to make up for a jump dodge distance. 1 Jump Dodge = mirage dodge + utility. Mirage dodge also gets crippled by well cripple and chill anything that slows down movement speed whereas a jump dodge is a jump dodge you get that distance regardless.

Not that I dont agree to the point you made with tradeoff but a tradeoff is better then a straight up nerf with no reasoning behind it. This has been apparent in the past and no doubt in the future. It is clear that the Devs dont know how they want mesmer to work and I for one am terrified at the EoD has to bring for mesmers. Us mesmer mains can only wish for tradeoffs because that is all we can have we have never had a straight up buff without something important taken away.

Again basing balance based on SPvP for another PvP platform like WvW is wrong. Point node capture vs an open world PvP is 2 separate things and should be balanced accordingly.

yes but those asking for a 2nd dodge isnt asking for a freebie like other classes asking for buffs. We are literally asking for a tradeoff, either give IH a ICD or nerf the amount of might and vuln on gs ambush or condi stacks on staff. Mesmer mains already know there is no free lunch just look at chrono, we gave up distort on split so we can shatter with no clones again.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > Not just that, wvw covers cmirage faults. > Trailblazer to cover for low protection and no toughness that pvp mesmer gets. > Energy sigil and energy food to cover for 1 dodge and nerfed vigor uptimes. > And tormenting runes for healing to cover the fact that mirage has one of the worst healings in the game. Actually no energy sigil over caps the endurance bar so no it doesn't cover it, dodge recharge bar is still 8 seconds even with vigor and energy food. Torment runes are neglectable in terms of heal because now you only have one dodge you either dodge for dmg or you dodge to avoid dmg there is no doing both. The only thing that is correct is yes trailblazer covers the defensive part of it. Other then that condi mirage in WvW is ignorable and avoidable. Fact that our dodge bar requires 8 seconds to recharge while weapon swap is 10 seconds and sigil of cleansing is 3 condi remove (torment, burn, confusion) condi mirage does no damage. That is unless you decide to 1 v 1 a condi mirage then yea maybe it could beat you after 20+ min of fighting.

If staff 1 and ambush got it's condi removed it literally will be the weaponset that does NO dmg at all. After the iWarlock rework staff going power is not viable whatsoever.

It amazes me how people ignore how many buttons that are required to be pressed in succession at the speed it requires to pull off that kinda dmg whereas other professions can do slightly lower dmg but requires a lot less button mashing.

> @"Jables.4659" said: > You falsely claimed that Mirage was never brokenly overpowered prior to the one dodge Nerf. Path of Fire launch up until Feb. 2020 all took place prior to the one-dodge Nerf and I gave you two examples of it being brokenly overpowered during that time. Now it appears you are backpedaling and adding a new qualifier to your previous statement. I am exhaustively aware that pretty much every Mesmer build in existence was drastically toned down throughout 2019 and early 2020. It gives me even more disdain for IH cMirage as this one problematic build resulted in a host of skill based Mesmer builds being butchered. > > Again Mirage had consistent nerfs prior to the Feb patch. One was to the clone generate aspect, 2nd was the vigor uptime. I also have stated that in SPvP where things work differently then WvW that condi Mirage would be a problem and I have given examples of Sigil of Cleansing in SPvP cleanses 1 Condi where as WvW cleanses 3. The fact that data are solely being based off of SPvP ruins WvW balance entirely because it is a DIFFERENT GAME MODE. Selective reading is real.

HA you are very funny for a second the title said focused WvW and PVE only, I'm sorry to say they haven't given WvW any significant updates in fact most of the recent balance patches have solely been towards SPvP. I mean #Alliance?

> @"Ronald McDonald.8165" said: > I literally never said any of those things, but acting like Mirage can't get out of AOEs is kind of silly. Mirage is the weakest class right now, but I don't agree though that adding the 2nd dodge back is what is good and healthy for the game. I have to agree with both Helseth and Shorts (which I think is pretty easy to say are the two best Mesmer players) that adding the 2nd dodge to Mirage will break the class and is toxic for the game. Unhealthy mechanics are not good for the game. Like most everyone else, I don't enjoy playing against unhealthy mechanics, so I don't find the solution to be to add more. I play Mesmer 99% of the time. Just because other classes have unhealthy mechanics, doesn't mean I want one too. Literally no mesmer is saying just add 2 dodges back without other nerfs in other sectors, the problem again falls into IH being too strong. Before Elusive Mind was nerfed no one even batted an eye to IH. Many mesmer mains also agree IH either needs to have an internal CD or nerf the clone output when they have mirage cloak. 2 dodges isn't a luxury it is a necessity, because now people can just wait on mesmer's 1 dodge and have a 8 second window to burst it. As far as mirage cant getting out of AoE isn't a uncommon thing, but the fact that you have to dodge and use jaunt or use a utility to compensate a jump dodge? I don't see other class having to waste their utilities to get out of AoEs.

> @"Jables.4659" said: > Its been a common occurrence for people on the Mesmer forums to lash out at people who talk down towards cMirage. It almost always includes something along the lines of "You are not a real Mesmer player" or "You don't know anything about Mesmer". I'm still going to say it: Condition Mirage with 2 dodges performs way too well for how little skill is required to play it. I am aware that there are some genuinely skilled players who like Condition Mirage just as there are some genuinely skilled players who like Necromancer. It doesn't change the fact that Condition Mirage has historically been a spec that allows the Mesmer to play incredibly passively while dealing massive amounts of damage. When you can spend the majority of a fight running away, hiding in stealth, and evading/blocking/invulning while your opponent is killed by AI, we have a problem. > > Again a person who is jack of all trades vs someone who has mastered one has a significant difference in terms of skill level and mastery of the class. This proves my point in people bandwagoning the next meta class with the meta build being carried by it. The mentality of if I am playing a meta build and I lose to a class it means the class is OP. Condi mirage performs extremely well in a point node fight yes but in open world WvW you can simply ignore it and run away they really have no means to catch up to you unlike some of the other condi classes notably thieves and rangers. SPvP sigil of cleansing only clears 1 whereas WvW it clears 3, and the 3 that it cleanses are prioritized to burn torment and confusion. Again all of this is to nerf mirage cloak not a core mechanic. Just because a person played the game for 8 years does not prove that they are knowledgeable or that they are good at the game, so bringing that "8 years" is invalid. In terms of the blocking invul I dont know where you are getting it from there are other classes that had way more evade blocks before the balance patch. Mirage cloak I guess just looks visually OP. And in terms of clone AI I cant even begin expressing how many times my clone will derp to the nearest mob or veteran no where near where I am fighting, clones are extremely squishy and can be killed with aoe or even auto. Ill say this again mesmer are noob stompers there are many players out there that have no trouble fighting against mirage pre-nerf.

> @"Jables.4659" said: > In its prime, Condition Mirage was a monster that dominated both spvp and small scale WvW. Power mirage had one of the strongest builds this game has ever seen with Staff Sword/Sword. The build had permanent protection, 25 might, fury, and a host of other boons with an incredibly strong power burst and solid sustained dps. It was essentially invincible in a 1v1 and its mobility was only surpassed by thief. This build's existence led to a number of core Mesmer nerfs including Bountiful Disillusionment, Sword phantasm, and Staff phantasm. To say that mirage was never brokenly overpowered is insane. > > Prior to the one dodge nerf mirage was no longer at it's "prime" so I don't know where you are getting into. They had consistently nerfed mirage's vigor uptime. Also you basically proved my point in nerfing other means then nerfing a dodge. The problem was that IH allowed power to stack up to 25 might with multi target/multi clones where as condi was able to stack high amounts of burns and torment. THAT is where the nerfed should've been NOT removing a CORE mechanic. Also there are 2 PVP game modes SPvP and WvW which people seem to forget that they work completely different.

> @"dontlook.1823" said: > > RUBIK1376 > I simp for Centaur Kefan [insert kitten mods joke here] > 5 hours ago > Silver > No guys you just don't get it. ANet is working SO HARD on the expansion. Like REALLY hard. You can't criticize them for ignoring the rest of the game (DRMs count as content? Balance? Alliances KEKW? Legendary armoury? Expac details?). You guys just don't understand that these things don't matter when we're getting an EXPANSION that they're really working hard on to make sure it's good. Just believe in ANet they always deliver!!!1!1! :^) > > > should read the comments of the redditpost i shared > What you fail to realize is putting out another expansion does not mean the game will get fixed in fact it will cause a lot more problems in the future in terms of balancing. The devs have been radio silent for so long regarding "more frequent balance patches" or "alliances" these were promised by them. Stop giving ANET excuses and let them own up.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Akilles.4320" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > It doesn't matter really...you could put Obsidian flesh on a 180s CD and you'd still have people claiming that ele is fine as they can go d/f and be invulnerable, dunno what else there is left to nerf on weaver: > > > > > You dunno what's left to nerf on Weaver? Ok let me tell you, THE MIRAGE TREATMENT! > > After the only 1 dodge at PvP no more nerfs were needed to mirage, something on the line like that to Weaver would solve it. > > Dont nerf anymore something that can arm Core Ele's or Tempest, it's just the Weaver that's needed to be dealed with. > > > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said: > > > not one class should receive the mirage treatment > > > > And yet here we are. > > > > I hope nobody listens to this guy. Seriously? What they did to mirage was just lazy and embarrassing. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to give a class with endless teleports, stealth, and target breaks the ability to basically ignore CC as well, but the solution was inelegant to say the least. You have to be some kind of salty losing to a class to suggest doing the same again. i think u just summed up what a thief is instead of a mesmer. mesmers have limited amount of teleports mirage having 1 more then core and chrono, stealth again is limited with high cd. regardless fact tht eles have to manage 4 attunements they have a higher skill management/combo then most classes. weavers already got countless nerfs on their sustain i can only say probably in spvp adjust the numbers mirage treatment is the laziest thing the devs couldve done to balance a class no class should receive a core mechanic nerf

in spvp yea perhaps condi mirage is problematic but in wvw which is another forgotten pvp platform tht isnt the case.

it really amazes me how people list a bunch of skills without doing some research on what they are actually listing and calling out people "factually wrong"

IH is the reason why power mirage had sustain dmg rather then just full on burst instead of removing IH reduce the dmg modifiers on clones, the might stack, the vuln. For condi treatment reduce the condi stacks and duration that clones can apply.

not one class should receive the mirage treatment

the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

well spvp i understand the need of offensively dodging and combo but in wvw its a difference case because of how sigil of cleansing works. in spvp it only clears 1 condi whereas wvw it clears 3. in spvp yes the condi spam can be seen an issue but in wvw because burn torment and confusions are in the priority of cleanse essentially first dodge is to bait out the weapon swap for sigil of cleanse to make sure the 2nd ambush condi sticks. and the reason why i mention wvw is because this nerf isnt exclusive to only spvp but it affects wvw as well.

truth be told condi application just needs a nerf...and condi mirage will be less oppressive make clones ambush stack lower condis then the main ambush but ofc this might be too much work then to just remove 1 dodge...

> So what you're doing right now is claim that you know what the game is *balanced around* (being "two dodges") better than anet themselves do, which is not only pretty random, but also false. If they were to revert that nerf, then it wouldn't be "because the game needs you to have 2 dodges to work", but because they determined the spec is too weak and needs help. > And mirage isn't really dead, it's just not as easly spammy as it initially was. the game was built upon 2 dodges in every profession if you want to understand why 2 dodges is important then i suggest you want JazzXman.7018's video it will explain to you in detail why 2 dodges is important and is a fundamental core mechanic to the game itself. and 2 dodges is even more so considering mesmers have so many core traits that rely on dodging. again with the spammy claim, mirages with 2 dodges was never spammy what made it seem spammy is sigil of energy and endurance food + vigor which mirages were able to use to max potential i mean daredevils can maximize the use of it as well, if you want to talk spammy classes with NO cd is called spammy for example thieves and even then they have initiatives that prevent them from being "spammy" as far as balance goes the game hasent been balanced since pre expansion days and the main issue with the game is boons which never got touched on the huge balance update from 2019. when dmg numbers got crunched boons continue to run rampant into the game. for example pre expansion days it required combo fields to get certain boons or 2 staff guards and fire field to get 25 stacks of might, now a days a press of a button and u can achieve all the important boons in the game. u talk about devs knows balance as far as im concern they havent released a balance patch tht shook the meta up. stop trying to kiss up and let them own up. oh and because mirage dodge is stationary, the speed boost it gets will get hindered by cripple and chill. so if u dont understand what tht means it means if there r aoe fields with 1 dodge and even 2 sometimes u cant get away from the aoes. PS. if mirage really only needed one dodge because espec reasons they would've done it upon release not wait nearly 2 years to remove it....

> @"Woltarion.6829" said: > > @"Every day pon.5386" said: > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️ > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back we just want a CORE mechanic back