TinkTinkPOOF.9201

> @"Doug.4930" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > No.

> >

> > Sniff is already a wall hack, you don't need to be able to spam it. Yes, high stealth, high evade etc etc thief builds are a problem, but that doesn't mean something else needs to be power creeped, that means these thief builds need to be looked at.

>

> Fair points but the problem is those builds are not a problem outside of keeps. I don't really care if some DE or acro daredevil runs nomad gear in the field. Same reason I don't care about any build that can run away whenever it likes. Its free to run away to its hearts content. I don't think we should nerf class mechanics because of a single very specific issue. Use a scalpel not a bat.

>

> > As to those who don't think Sniff is useful, it's used for going into a keep or tower that is contested and Sniffing and seeing where the attackers are without even trying, this makes havoc even harder, which was just about killed with tactics and passives. It's also used by attackers to see if a zerg or scout is inside, it can also be used in zerg battles, like DBL or SMC where there is lots of room and hiding spots to see if a zerg is stacked behind a wall waiting to veil push or portal bomb. I mean "radar" hacking used to be complained about often, then anet went and added it into the game....Now we are wanting it buffed? GG man.

>

> Fair points, I can't really comment on the zergling point of view as I only ever roam. But it would appear all those issues you brought up are already present with a 60 second cooldown. Reducing it to 20 seconds wouldn't really affect those aspects. One sniff is all thats needed to see a zerg stacked/hiding etc. Furthermore during a zerg fight both servers have that many mounted players that a reduced cooldown again wouldn't really be noticeable.

>

> I do see where you're coming from and like I said my zerging experience is basically zero. The only solution to the problems you brought up would be to delete mounts. Which would be a dream come true, but it isn't going to happen I'm afraid.

The builds are a problem outside of keeps as well, no build should have absolute ability to get away. They also don't run away in full, they reset the fight over and over until they catch you off guard or on CD, this is not ok. In a PvP matchup with point holding it's not an issue, but in open world it is. The builds ARE the problem, just because you find it annoying only in once instance does not justify the build existing, nor does it give reason to power creep something else, this is the mind set that got us to the insane power creep we had before, "oh, this is broken, so buff this! Well, now that is broken, so buff that, and this, and that". You yourself are admitting it's an issue, but want to use it as a reason to buff something rather than fix the cause.

Yes, it will impact those fights, as the Sniff only works for a short duration, dropping the CD means it can almost be spammed to keep high up time on monitoring the other side. Situational awareness is a thing that seems to be lost on people, people used to understand where to stand and what to push, but now they don't have to, now you just push a button to be able to see where people are who are not in LoS or even rendered.

No.

Sniff is already a wall hack, you don't need to be able to spam it. Yes, high stealth, high evade etc etc thief builds are a problem, but that doesn't mean something else needs to be power creeped, that means these thief builds need to be looked at.

As to those who don't think Sniff is useful, it's used for going into a keep or tower that is contested and Sniffing and seeing where the attackers are without even trying, this makes havoc even harder, which was just about killed with tactics and passives. It's also used by attackers to see if a zerg or scout is inside, it can also be used in zerg battles, like DBL or SMC where there is lots of room and hiding spots to see if a zerg is stacked behind a wall waiting to veil push or portal bomb. I mean "radar" hacking used to be complained about often, then anet went and added it into the game....Now we are wanting it buffed? GG man.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Senji.2048" said:

> > Is there any ongoing / planned effort towards reducing it?

>

> alliances are coming!

Coming Soon™

> @"HAsAsIN.6724" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > Wow, lots of bad info being posted in here.

> >

> > OP, if you want the best performance, get a desktop, full stop. Performance per dollar will always be higher in a desktop than a laptop (also more upgradable later), so you get more for your money with a desktop as the OEM is not as limited with space and cooling. Which is the other point, people arguing Intel or AMD is better in a laptop, DON'T LISTEN TO THEM. Laptops can not be judged by a spec sheet, while most (though not all) desktops can be, reason being is modern day CPUs have boost clocks, which are dependent on CPU core temps, once they go past a given temp, those boost clocks will start to drop and so will performance, many laptops today, including many "gaming" laptops, after a few mins of gaming will have dropped all the way back down to base clocks. It is totally possible to have a laptop with a WEAKER CPU perform better for longer than a laptop with a STRONGER CPU, as that stronger CPU has a higher thermal load due to higher clocks or more cores and runs into a thermal bottleneck.

> >

> > Laptops are one thing you need to see actual gaming benchmarks on to see how well they cool, biggest thing in a gaming laptop is COOLING, you want to stay well clear of those sleek thin laptops for gaming, the ones that are very bulky with those big rear ports and heatsink fins you can see in the back will tend to perform better, even with the same CPU/GPU. Even these gaming laptops will still benefit from an active laptop cooler, that being one that has active fans moving fresh air around the bottom of the laptop.

> >

> > GW2 is also more CPU bottlenecked, though it is not CPU demanding, that is because the main rendering thread is mostly single core, so you might have an 8 core CPU and it's only consuming 3 cores worth of CPU clocks. In many cases for GW2 it would often be better to have a higher clocked 6 core or sometimes even 4 core CPU, than a lower clocked 8 core CPU, this is why Intel is often the better pick here, though over all performance per dollar would be with AMD. Keep in mind that this is GW2 only, if you play other games, or do production work etc etc, AMD might be the better choice, I am talking min/maxing here, so stock for stock FPS gains tend to be in the single digits, unless you are getting into OCing, where I have a 9900k @ 5.1Ghz all core, but you are then talking custom water cooling loop etc etc to get there, and gets expensive fast.

> >

> > So it really comes down to use and budget. Are you planning on WvW zerg fights? Roaming? What sort of budget do you have? What is considered playable to you? Example being the video posted above, for many, thats just fine, for me however, thats is unplayable frame rates. This will impact your PC choice and budget needed.

>

> maybe the A.NET visionaries during the development of GW2 forecasted that third party streaming software will be the big deal today. thus, the game only uses few core so that the other apps/videostreaming/capping can use the other cores.

>

> twitch.tv was introduced in June 2011 and GW2 was released in August 2012. so yeah.

>

> and twitch.tv was acquired by Amazon and GW2 servers are Amazon servers.

That has nothing to do with streaming, as that can be controlled with core affinity and process priority. It all has to do with GW2 game engine being the same one as the original GW game with some changes. However the API remained the same, that being DX9, part of the reason this was kept, even though DX9 was well past end of life at this point was that the xbox of the time used a modified version of DX9, meaning porting the game over would have been easy. They had a team early on working on porting to the xbox, however to release on a console you have to meet given performance metrics that Sony and Microsoft set, if your game can't meet those for smooth game play, you will not be allowed to release on them. My assumption is that after starting on this (as it was abandoned not long after starting), was because they knew meeting those performance metrics was going to require far more resources and optimizations than they were willing to spend, big time as MMO's have never been very popular on console, so ROI might have never happened, and then having to develop and maintain two different distributions.

Wow, lots of bad info being posted in here.

OP, if you want the best performance, get a desktop, full stop. Performance per dollar will always be higher in a desktop than a laptop (also more upgradable later), so you get more for your money with a desktop as the OEM is not as limited with space and cooling. Which is the other point, people arguing Intel or AMD is better in a laptop, DON'T LISTEN TO THEM. Laptops can not be judged by a spec sheet, while most (though not all) desktops can be, reason being is modern day CPUs have boost clocks, which are dependent on CPU core temps, once they go past a given temp, those boost clocks will start to drop and so will performance, many laptops today, including many "gaming" laptops, after a few mins of gaming will have dropped all the way back down to base clocks. It is totally possible to have a laptop with a WEAKER CPU perform better for longer than a laptop with a STRONGER CPU, as that stronger CPU has a higher thermal load due to higher clocks or more cores and runs into a thermal bottleneck.

Laptops are one thing you need to see actual gaming benchmarks on to see how well they cool, biggest thing in a gaming laptop is COOLING, you want to stay well clear of those sleek thin laptops for gaming, the ones that are very bulky with those big rear ports and heatsink fins you can see in the back will tend to perform better, even with the same CPU/GPU. Even these gaming laptops will still benefit from an active laptop cooler, that being one that has active fans moving fresh air around the bottom of the laptop.

GW2 is also more CPU bottlenecked, though it is not CPU demanding, that is because the main rendering thread is mostly single core, so you might have an 8 core CPU and it's only consuming 3 cores worth of CPU clocks. In many cases for GW2 it would often be better to have a higher clocked 6 core or sometimes even 4 core CPU, than a lower clocked 8 core CPU, this is why Intel is often the better pick here, though over all performance per dollar would be with AMD. Keep in mind that this is GW2 only, if you play other games, or do production work etc etc, AMD might be the better choice, I am talking min/maxing here, so stock for stock FPS gains tend to be in the single digits, unless you are getting into OCing, where I have a 9900k @ 5.1Ghz all core, but you are then talking custom water cooling loop etc etc to get there, and gets expensive fast.

So it really comes down to use and budget. Are you planning on WvW zerg fights? Roaming? What sort of budget do you have? What is considered playable to you? Example being the video posted above, for many, thats just fine, for me however, thats is unplayable frame rates. This will impact your PC choice and budget needed.

Thief and ranger will have the easiest time, and tend to have mobility and stealth baked into normal builds. Most classes can get away, but many can't in normal builds people run. Warrior can also run, but depends on the other classes not having much mobility, as warrior doesn't have stealth to mask the escape, which is the big thing, as thief and ranger can stealth and burn all their mobility skills and be far enough away to be OOC to mount up, double dodge, wait for mobility CDs, dismount, burn all CDs, remount and double dodge again etc etc.

Someone said mes, but meh, not so much, it has bursty mobility like guard, but not much of it and on long CD, it does have stealth though and it's big skill, that being blink doesn't need a target like guards JI does, and much like thief short bow, mes blink can blink up MANY areas that other teleport skills can't. So if they are in an area they can use this to their advantage, they indeed can get away but need to be aware of the terrain, so I would say mes can as well, but very situational, same with guard, if they are in an area they can port up or behind they can often get away, but anywhere else, probably not, big time if there is a thief, ranger or warrior chasing them. On thief or ranger, these are things I don't really need to think about, as disengage on both is very high, though of these two thief has the advantage of ports, not just leaps so it can also make use of vertical mobility as well.

All in all, if I am going to troll or just want a build I can get away on, I am going to be on thief.

> @"frareanselm.1925" said:

> > @"kuteykathy.8123" said:

> > > @"frareanselm.1925" said:

> > > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > > @"frareanselm.1925" said:

> > > > > When I play WVW this crazy thing happened multiple times, I was on the top of a tower defending as a ranger, and a dragonhunter who was on the floor pulls me out of the tower to the floor. Cmon this has zero logic, how can a chain have so OP range that can reach to the top of a tower???

> > > > > This is has no sense, in real life a tower may have at least 12 meters!

> > > > > I hope anet understand hgow OP this is that looks like science fiction. At least the range should be shorter!

> > > > So throwing a spear with an ultralight titanium chain attached to it for 12m is less realistic than a guy with a bow casting magic, being abble to make himself invisible and commanding animals that are casting magic too?

> > > >

> > > > Btw.: an exploit is the usage of game mechanics in an (by the dev) unintended way. Quite the opposite of what you think it is. That skill is made to pull you off that tower.

> > >

> > > I doubt this is intended to pull a player off a tower. Devs didnt imagined that this skill would be misused in wvw.

> > > As a ranger with my longbow skill n4 I cannot throw a npc guard off of a tower, I remember in beta 2012 I could throw them and then was fixed.

> > > All attacks that trespassed walls have been fixed except the DH pull because doesnt trespass literally, but the range is absolutely not justificable, and overpowered.

> > >

> >

> > 1.) Why do you consider this skill misused? Does your view of a pull skill being "misused in wvw" extend to every other pull skill in the game?

> > 2.) No NPC can be pushed or yanked off a ledge, but you are not a NPC. You can freely knock other player off a tower with your longbow 4.

> > 3.) What do you mean by attacks that trespass walls? As you mentioned, you were not pulled through the wall but off the wall.

> > 4.) Why do you feel the range is not justifiable and is overpowered? On the contrary, 1200 seems quite standard for active pulls (Thief's Scorpion Wire, Ranger's Iboga pet, Engi's Magnet, etc.)>

> >

> > > @"frareanselm.1925" said:

> > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > Spear of Justice has 1200 unit range (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spear_of_Justice)

> > > >

> > > > That's 1200 units whether you are standing on the top of a tower, keep, hill, etc. Also can't help giggle abit at the irony of a longbow tower ranger complaining about an ability having too long a range. Good thing players aren't reporting rangers for hitting people with longbow beyond 1500 units heheh

> > >

> > > A Ranger by definition has to have the longest range in the game. A guardian, with heavy armor, tons of blocks and heals, shouldnt have that long range.

> >

> > A base guardian does not have access to that long range pull--only the Dragonhunter specialization.

> >

> > Keep in mind that the Dragonhunter specialization toolkit has elements quite similar to the archetype of Rangers--they gained access to Longbow as a weapon, Traps as utility skills, and a throwable spear. It makes sense for them to have access to range (plus the DH range is still lower than the range available to Rangers).

>

> What's wrong with these pulls is that they IGNORE angle and heigh. And what i mean by that is: me as a ranger when I try to shot an arrow, if I'm not in the edge of the wall always appear the text in red: "obstructed" "obstructed" "obstructed". Also a little irregularity in the terrain that cuts the trajectory of an arrow "obstructed".

> But these pulls ignore all angles and perspectives without problems, theyre magic.

It does not ignore line of sight, DH pull is a two step process, they have to cast a skill that has a projectile with a visible animation, it has to hit you, and then the DH has to press F1 again to start the pull. What happened was you were standing on the very edge of the wall, got hit with F1 (that has a visible tether after as well), you then remained on the wall within 1,200 range, without stab or a stun break and he then pulled. So no, it does not ignore LOS, you just don't understand the game or other classes, like most tower rangers, as most tower rangers are a free kill once pulled out.

However, now that you are complaining about LoS, how about we talk about ranger LB #5 and how it actually DOES ignore LoS? This can be cast clear over an unbroken wall into the middle of a tower or even on top of a supply hut to hit players and siege, now THIS is broken. As for your obstructed comments, it makes it clear you have never played anything else, at least nothing else ranged, as ALL ranged classes are impacted by this, including LB DH.

The HW doesn't matter, what software are you using for key binds? I am assuming Synapse? I have not used it much as I use Logitech now, however, in Synapse, how are the buttons bound? Are the set as actions? Macros? Key press? Have you gone into GW settings for the action you want to bind it to and make sure its set? If it is already set, when you go to edit the button bind (in GW) and you press the button on the mouse that should be assigned to that key, does it input the correct F function (F1, F2, F3 etc)? Are the F functions standard Fkeys, or the extra F keys Razer and Logitech add to some of their gaming keyboards? As those can be different functions and some games will not recognize them unless you bind them in the Razor or Logitech software to a standard US keyboard layout key.

Stacking is a dmg mitigation tactic, most skills have a target cap, most being 5-10 people for aoe skills, if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and reduces the chance of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once, this is why if you push into a choke solo, you will insta down, but if pushing with a zerg can often times take minimal dmg, though you should be double dodging through the bomb anyway.

There is also a tab for combat, which shows you in real time skills and dmg taken from them, if you leave this open while in combat, you can see what is hitting you. Now, there have been calls for a long time for a more PvP like display that gives much more details and summary of dmg taken and dealt, however that has fallen of deaf ears for years.

Next point is if you don't like the group play....don't. Go roaming where you can see your own skills and the impact you are having.

> @"Threather.9354" said:

> **Guild Tactics and Improvements balance**

> _Dragon banner:_ Every server has a few players that are "dragon banner mains". And this tactic is so strong that it twists fights around it.

> _How to fix:_ Either nerf damage of dragon banner skills or reduce range of them. They deal too much damage for the fact that the banner user is quite impossible to kill if they run certain builds/comp. The banner user also shouldn't get increased movement speed. Dragon banner 2 should also have increased cooldown.

>

I main DB when I am drinking, as it's so OP I can be half drunk and still wipe groups almost solo with one.

With warclaw you don't need anything special to contest, they are immune to CC and don't have a combat speed, so just run by a structure aaaaand.....contested. It is stupid and people have talked about this back to core days, nothing has been done, keep in mind, back then WPs opened up for a short time after every contest event ended and new one started, upgrades cost supply, money, worker time and manual starting of the upgrade. Ideas back then were siege dmg, or 5+ people killing guards etc. This was also when guard stacks existed and people were ALWAYS contesting structures, not just WPs.

If you don't like warclaw speed and WPs, be more active in getting warclaw removed/nerfed, but the fact it exists does not mean you should blame WPs or support a toxic trolling tactic.

You can build siege in areas that NPCs cant get to, but an archer will try and hit, but can't, it will keep trying over and over, all you have to do is go back once an hour to refresh, the reward for effort is FAR to high. Add this in with warclaw, escape thief builds etc and it's non-stopped trolling. I have zero faith this will change.

People are either confused, or being obtuse. The thief hiding is not in a duel, they are not on dueling or roaming builds, they are running max hiding and escape builds, if you happen to catch them and hit them with a reveal, they are going to flat out run, they have ZERO intention on fighting, and try just catching a roaming build that doesn't want to fight, most classes will not be able to even keep up, let alone catch and kill, now change that build to one that does no dmg and is built for nothing but stealth and running with all defensive stats.

My main is DH, a good counter to thief, however that is ONLY if the thief sticks around to fight, if they run, I have no chance of keeping up (assuming I was able to hit them with reveal). You dropped a reveal trap I was stupid enough to hit AND you happen to be camping it? I jump out and when you jump out after me, well, I already have portal placed inside, so I open it and port back in and then /laugh while you have to run all the way back to keep gate to get back in and I am by that time, on the other side of the keep, stacking stealth again. Don't jump out after me? I wait for the counter, stealth, open portal, find a new place to hide portal, drop it and repeat the process again.

I love the people scrambling trying to make an excuse for a broken mechanic that should not exist in the game, inside a structure or not.

I also see lots of people are bad thieves. If the build ONLY had high stealth up time, that would be fine, however it is in combination with very high mobility AND portal. Believe me, when you come for me, I already have portal placed, reveal me and I will be 2,000+ range away as I hit the trap. People also forget that a trap is static on the ground, costs supply, has a long cast time, you can only place one at a time, and you have to camp close to it, as I have been on both sides of this. Add in instant build swaps now and it gets really stupid. Stealth, mobility, evades, reveal removal AND portal etc. Once I am far away from you, if you are still chasing or someone is on the other side of structure, I am going to jump out, often times they see this thinking "yay!!", but guess what, someone was stupid enough to give thief portal, so I just port right back in and because of how it works, I can place it immediately again and jump back out if in trouble.

The problem is as someone stated above, people hated mes because of portal, but I didn't see an issue with it, as with mes you had to hide, and you had to hide to start with in most cases, not after the squad lost. However mes didn't have the stealth uptime even traited to do much other than hide in specific spots, that are well known to most roamers. And if you were spotted, it was over, you don't have the mobility and stealth uptime to be able to reset and hide again, which is not true for thief, as you can reset for hours.

The fact that people are suggesting this is "ok" because you can get 30-40 people to chase ONE PERSON to finally kill them is well....I don't think much else needs to be said.

Better question is why does it do damage?

Botting is the right section to report cheating under. Why anet doesn't just add another option for cheating (like every other game), I have no idea. Most people when I am with others who see someone port hacking etc they never know that you can report under botting so they never send any, many don't even believe me when I tell them it's the right option in game.

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > The way my paw paw taught me terminology low skill floor = easy to play, which means it's easy to be effective. You're trying to reach the floor, and if it's low, there's less effort required to get to it.

> >

> > I was dueling a condi Herald as power Mirage and they blew so many cooldowns and still managed to wittle me down to near-death. Keep in mind I did my best to dodge every attack, this person used all their skills at the wrong time but the sheer size of AoEs and CCs, multiple sustain tools makes this an easy build to play. This was before switching to Elusive Mind so hopefully that makes it a lot easier.

>

> Skill floor = How the class is when played badly

> Skill ceiling = How the class is when played well

>

> Low skill floor = The class is terrible when you don't know how to play it

> High skill floor = The class is good even if you don't know how to play it

> Low skill ceiling = The class is bad even when played well

> High skill ceiling = The class is quite powerful when played well

>

> Usually you want noobs playing high skill floor classes (Warrior BS) and skilled people playing high skill ceiling classes (Chronotank, Quickbrand).

No.

A low skill floor means the entry to be effective is LOW, meaning an inexperienced player can be effective on it. A high ceiling means it requires lots of skill to play at it's limits. Where you are getting the opposite from I have no idea, maybe you should google "low skill floor meaning".

Here, let me do it for you:

"This brings us to skill floors. A skill floor is the counterpart to a skill ceiling. A skill ceiling is the level of play that’s possible with training and mastery. A skill floor is a way of describing how difficult it is to begin the process of mastery. For example, playing Widowmaker in Overwatch isn’t easy if you don’t have a background in other FPS titles. In order to even be relevant with her, you need to have exceptional aim and positioning. The skill floor for Widowmaker, in other words, is very high — if you want to be somewhat competent, you need to have mastered a variety of game mechanics."

"Skill floors, to start, are the bare minimum amount of skill with that game (or sub-category within the game, see class shooters ala TF2) to participate in the game effectively. This is the status quo that the developers have modeled the game around, and if you’re not good enough to meet this floor you’re going to have a hard time. This is the developers saying “you must be this tall to ride this ride.”

"The floor tells us how easy it is to get going with the task. A low floor means it’s easy for everyone to get on board. Tic-Tac-Toe is an example of a game with a low floor. It’s easy to understand and even the youngest of kids can start playing pretty quickly. A low floor is inviting. Chess has a high floor – evidenced by how many college-educated adults I’ve met who cannot play. Chess’s floor appears so high that they just never got going. A high floor is a barrier."

Do I need to go on?

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Not sure, quite a lot of players seem to be dying on these super tanky builds.

>

> Unless, of course, this is about a single player running a certain build that is not able to kill players on high sustain builds. In which case I wonder why you do not also complain about the high mobility, teleports and stealth everyone runs these days.

Normal tanky build, or what I call bruiser builds are more than killable. The unkillable builds also include the high mobility and high stealth uptime builds, however just because someone makes a post about the tank builds does not mean they don't believe those are a problem as well, I don't understand when people make posts like this. Just because almost unkillable tanks exist doesn't imply the others don't as well.

I mean, we have had YEARS of posts about them after all.

I also stated before the last big balance patch that mobility and stealth were going to become FAR more valuable once dmg was nerfed.

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > Fair enough, too much heresay to not question. Though I can't imagine seeing myself in a situation where I'd not just use a player skill to keep someone in combat... And also take chunks of their health. Seems inefficient to waste time tapping when I can WHACK.

> > > >

> > > > There difference is a enemy running away on foot will get out of combat and port before you get into range for Maul, so instead you use the lance with 1500 range to keep them in combat while you close the distance.

> > > >

> > > > ANET only coded the lance to dismount the user when it dismounts another player off their warclaw, so you're free to use it to tag players and NPCs (handy if you want the participation for killing a sentry but want to keep riding past and attack the camp.

> > >

> > > I also use it for tagging lord when I come in late, although I've tried when all the guards are there and it seems to pierce some of them at same time, I think 3.

> > > Edit: not sure if it's a pierce or a radius, I'll double check later.

> >

> > It pierces, you can see it sometimes when dismounting someone with another person right behind them, as it will dismount both with one lance, most I have dismounted at once was 4 people. I don't think its piercing range is very large though, it's smaller than the aoe from maul.

>

> I bet you 50 Eyes of Kormir that's a bug and wasn't intended...but then, the same devs originally designed Superior Battle Maw to finish 10 downed players in a 360 radius, so what do I know /shrug

Indeed, I find it shocking many people still don't understand maul is not just a finisher, but an AOE finisher with pretty good AOE dmg. Do you remember, or ever play around with sic'em SB before the nerf? Stack buffs, stealth, get close to the person and mount and maul for an insta down? That remained in the game WAY to long. And not only the fact it does dmg as a mount skill but the fact it works with stats and dmg modifiers? WHY?

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > Fair enough, too much heresay to not question. Though I can't imagine seeing myself in a situation where I'd not just use a player skill to keep someone in combat... And also take chunks of their health. Seems inefficient to waste time tapping when I can WHACK.

> >

> > There difference is a enemy running away on foot will get out of combat and port before you get into range for Maul, so instead you use the lance with 1500 range to keep them in combat while you close the distance.

> >

> > ANET only coded the lance to dismount the user when it dismounts another player off their warclaw, so you're free to use it to tag players and NPCs (handy if you want the participation for killing a sentry but want to keep riding past and attack the camp.

>

> I also use it for tagging lord when I come in late, although I've tried when all the guards are there and it seems to pierce some of them at same time, I think 3.

> Edit: not sure if it's a pierce or a radius, I'll double check later.

It pierces, you can see it sometimes when dismounting someone with another person right behind them, as it will dismount both with one lance, most I have dismounted at once was 4 people. I don't think its piercing range is very large though, it's smaller than the aoe from maul.

It has been stated on the forums, gosh, years ago, even before tactics, that siege trolling is.....TROLLING which is against ToS. This was back when the only thing to troll was supply, as supply was consumed for upgrades, and removing supply meant you could not buy ANY upgrades for a structure. People would also build golems and walk them off cliffs etc etc. to keep supply at 0. Now there are also tactics trolling with siege, as well as siege capping, this used to be big as well, as build enough siege and the whole area wont allow anyone to place more, and all the troll siege would be built right at walls or supply huts so they were useless to use. You could wait and see who it was, as they would come back every so often to refresh them all.

These people are often from other servers, and this is considered match manipulation. The problem is that they don't bother with even real hacking bans, I mean straight wall climbing, flying, teleporting etc etc, with video proof, so they are for sure not going to waste time banning people for this unless you get half the server to report them. It's not enough that something breaks ToS, you have to make enough people mad enough about it that it becomes visible and anet goes "oh shit, we need to do something now, they are getting pitchforks".

We had someone on our server that did this, just a troll account, people even found out which server their main was on and I believe had screen shots of them stating it. As they got more and more brave as time went on. People didn't care at first, as the first day people just assumed they would get bored and move on, but 2 weeks later, they were still at it, 10+ hours a day, nothing, I mean NOTHING had supply, people stopped adding any tactics that were not passives because they were always wasted. We ended up getting most of the map to report them around that two week mark, and every person online from my guild at the time, so a solid 40-50 people there alone, most people didn't know how to report them, as for some reason, anet does not have a trolling/cheating option, however anet has stated that it should be reported under botting. Once that was done, the next day no one saw them, and didn't see them again for the rest of the week and then we had a matchup change, so I don't know if it was a perm ban or not. I did get an email back (as I reported and sent in screens and video of the person), all it stated was that action was taken.

Simple fix for all of this is, just like spawn, make the area around the tactics siege locked, so it cant be placed within 150-200 units, same with food or other items that have interaction, they could also give tactics use priority. Make pulling tactics put out a map chat msg of "Player name: pulled EWP in Lowlands", not only does this help with spotting trolls who do this over and over, but also makes it so that when pulled for real, it's put in chat for people to click on without having to spam the link yourself.

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Fair enough, too much heresay to not question. Though I can't imagine seeing myself in a situation where I'd not just use a player skill to keep someone in combat... And also take chunks of their health. Seems inefficient to waste time tapping when I can WHACK.

And how are you going to do that?

You are coming at me and don't lance me, so you use maul to put me in combat? Nope, I mount before the cast finishes. You are going to dismount with the normal action key and then open with a CC or burst? Nope, I am still going to mount before the action finishes and you just blew your opening CC/burst, as I stated above, you would be the person I end up trolling, you did no dmg to me because I double dodged on mount, you are now in combat and cant remount, I am still full HP on mount and no skills on CD....What are you going to do now? Well, probably like I said above, the person burns even more CDs to try and kill the mount, I am not going to run because I plan on killing you, once I troll long enough that you are able to get the mount low I am going to dismount with maul and get a free aoe 5-6k hit on you. So now you put yourself in a situation where you have many CDs burnt and just took a nice burst or have to blow an evade/block.

I think I understand why now so many people cry about the mount being nerfed, because they have NO idea how to use it. I find it funny the people who want it don't understand it, but the people who say it's OP and needs more nerfs or to be removed are the ones who make the most use of it....

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> AC’s damage was greatly reduced over a year ago...

>

> Coordinated groups can camp under several of them for minutes without people going down.

>

> I mean, siege stinks, but if you are having that much difficulty with ACs....

I think lots of people suffer because they didn't play when the game first came out, and a single AC could melt rams and golems in a minute. If you were attacking something and were spotted, and that one person got on an AC, you might as well just bail. Now? ACs tickle at best, and do almost nothing to siege.

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > >

> > > I've seen players throw the Lance at me when I'm dismounted, and battle maul fellow riders.

> > >

> >

> >

> > Haha sometimes I do that to keep them in combat. I don't get to use battle maul as an opener because it always goes randomly on CD when I need it.

>

> > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > I've seen players throw the Lance at me when I'm dismounted, and battle maul fellow riders.

> > >

> > > Sometimes it's like people never read their tooltips.

> >

> > The Lance tickle is a tactic to keep people "in combat," or to pop Aegis before you Maul. Since it doesn't dismount you unless you hit a rider, there's very little downside if you're about to jump off your mount anyway.

>

>

> It does no damage to unmounted players, which is usually a requirement to keep someone in combat.

>

> Have either of you experimented to confirm or are you wasting cooldowns in pure speculation?

Tested, back when mount first came out (and still use it to this day), it does dmg and does put you into combat. This is why it's very powerful to roamers and "gank" groups, they know all the tricks, I have won a number of fights purely due to the mount. Most of the people I end up running into will lance me first (I am a solo roamer), I can tell right off the bat if a fight is going to be hard just by this, the majority of people (though not all) who lance first tend to be roamers who are pretty good, while the number of fights I lose to those who don't lance are pretty small, though I am surprised from time to time.

I should upload some of the trolling videos I have of me using the mount. I just don't have the time to edit anything....and I am lazy.

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > I don't die to them. The issue is they cannot die, and if you run around and ONLY run into these builds, you can go upwards of hours without killing a single player in WvW which is really unfun. You can just run around and only have stalemates, basically.

> > > >

> > > > That's not a problem in WvW ... the objective isn't to kill people ... that's just a means to an end to capture zones, etc ...

> > > >

> > > > If you want to simply kill people, you have PVP for that.

> > >

> > > PvP is about nodes. It's not about fights even remotely.

> > >

> > > WvW is by far the best place to go for fights. I haven't looked at the scoreboard any at all (beyond to see if I will need to move server to escape t1-t3 lag/zergfests) and WvWs been my primary gamemode for years now.

> > >

> > > You are however 100% right about unkillable builds not being a problem if they pose no threat in WvW as one can always just move on.

> > >

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > There are restrictions on gear in PvP for a reason - certain builds should NOT be allowed by the developers. I explained why they make the game very unfun and boring in previous posts.

> > > >

> > > > Right ... because in PVP, there is a much more direct link between successfully killing players and winning. That's not as direct in WvW. You can kill tons of players ... but still lose because WvW objectives are strategically linked to the zone ownership.

> > >

> > > No there's barely even a link in PvP.

> > >

> > > Also a lot more people play WvW for reasons beyond trying to go up 1 tier so one can get more lags and enemies that are more scared to leave their blobs.

> >

> > I won't argue with you because clearly you missed the point ... there is a DISTINCT difference between the objectives in PVP and WvW, and that difference is why tanky builds in WvW isn't a problem, EVEN if those players are unkillable, which I doubt.

>

> I agree with that point, which I said. I just find the "go PvP if you want fights" argument to be flawed.

>

>

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > But out of curiosity what builds do you feel needs a bed to sustain and how would one achieve this without nerfing them in a group setting (or a solo setting where they don't run a 0 dmg build)?

> >

> > I don't pretend to be a balance engineer, and I also don't have the ability to test changes in game like the devs do. That is something I would need access to, as well as being able to see what build these people are running, I can make guesses based on what I see, but there are lots of unknowns and while I play most classes, some I don't know well enough to be able to tell what traits etc they are running just from a fight (at least not all), and PMing them about their build often just results in some insult and block, after all, most of these people enjoy being trolls, so it's expected. I am also probably not the best person for that job either, as there are many far better players than myself.

> >

> > For me it comes down to, in the example of the engi, it's ability to heal, often times going from 10% to 90% instantly, even though it still has high mobility access, blocks, invulnerability, barrier up time, range denial, CC etc etc, yes, lacks pretty much all dmg. It's the fact it can face tank and STILL do all of the above, making it great for trolling, and most classes have SOME sort of build that can troll well, though some much better than others, such as some thief builds or druid builds. This comes down to not just stats, or a healing skill, but having access to other sources of healing, many skills that having extra healing, protection up time etc. boons are a big part of it. Even in large scale, its all about who can strip the stab and bomb faster than FB and engi can clear everything and reapply boons. However this is becoming more common in builds at the solo level, with almost full protection up time, constant stab etc, strong boons like these should not have that sort of up time (big time in solo), it becomes more like a passive that is always up, rather than skilled use to counter a CC or burst etc. Now, before the engi mains come in thinking I am asking for a nerf, I am not, most engi builds I have zero issue with, it's the troll build only, though knowing anet, their fix would be short sighted and nerf it across the board.

> >

> > It's to easy to just throw things out there that would fix the issue, but hurt something else, such as other builds or diversity. And yes, I understand these builds are part of that, however that does not change my stance that they (troll builds) are not healthy for the game.

>

> There is no fix for "troll" builds that doesn't hit "legit" builds.

Hit? Probably not, but that is not the goal, keeping them useful while giving something else as a trade off to replace what the "legit" builds lose. I don't buy into "can't be fixed" that is just lazy. So many games get it right, so can this one, we have just had so little serious looks at balance that it seems impossible at this point. If a class can't be balanced it's a design issue and it needs to be rethought.

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> But out of curiosity what builds do you feel needs a bed to sustain and how would one achieve this without nerfing them in a group setting (or a solo setting where they don't run a 0 dmg build)?

I don't pretend to be a balance engineer, and I also don't have the ability to test changes in game like the devs do. That is something I would need access to, as well as being able to see what build these people are running, I can make guesses based on what I see, but there are lots of unknowns and while I play most classes, some I don't know well enough to be able to tell what traits etc they are running just from a fight (at least not all), and PMing them about their build often just results in some insult and block, after all, most of these people enjoy being trolls, so it's expected. I am also probably not the best person for that job either, as there are many far better players than myself.

For me it comes down to, in the example of the engi, it's ability to heal, often times going from 10% to 90% instantly, even though it still has high mobility access, blocks, invulnerability, barrier up time, range denial, CC etc etc, yes, lacks pretty much all dmg. It's the fact it can face tank and STILL do all of the above, making it great for trolling, and most classes have SOME sort of build that can troll well, though some much better than others, such as some thief builds or druid builds. This comes down to not just stats, or a healing skill, but having access to other sources of healing, many skills that having extra healing, protection up time etc. boons are a big part of it. Even in large scale, its all about who can strip the stab and bomb faster than FB and engi can clear everything and reapply boons. However this is becoming more common in builds at the solo level, with almost full protection up time, constant stab etc, strong boons like these should not have that sort of up time (big time in solo), it becomes more like a passive that is always up, rather than skilled use to counter a CC or burst etc. Now, before the engi mains come in thinking I am asking for a nerf, I am not, most engi builds I have zero issue with, it's the troll build only, though knowing anet, their fix would be short sighted and nerf it across the board.

It's to easy to just throw things out there that would fix the issue, but hurt something else, such as other builds or diversity. And yes, I understand these builds are part of that, however that does not change my stance that they (troll builds) are not healthy for the game.