Crozame.4098

> @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > > > > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > > > > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. > > > > 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. > > 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast. > > > > F2 cleanses 3 condis and has a .5s delay. Any condi build is easily going to overwhelm that. > > If you are playing power trapper, you have bow which is a rather UP weapon. Most tank necros can 1v1 you indefinitely and you aren't putting up great damage numbers unless people stand in your traps without inv/block. You have a pretty good hit and run build, but no skilled player is complaining about our damage. If you are playing condi, you can't kite and do damage. Almost all of your burst comes from Zealot's Flame and its lesser version. Zealots fire is an unguided slow projectile. So no, you can't kite and expect to be viable. Any class with a range weapon doesn't care about you. Only ele and rev aren't running a ranged set and many revs are bringing shiro and have superspeed access too. 1) You simply said there was NOOOOO condi cleanse, and I was responding to that. 2) I really have nothing to respond to your second point. You dont even kitten understand what build I was referring to. And kittens like you overwhelm the forum and therefore might bias the balances patches. And maybe this is why the meta becomes more and more unfun to play.

> @"lare.5129" said: > remove all runes ! left one amulet ! only one should stay ! > that sound like that. So you are 10 years old?

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > This you? > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. Roots don't take condi and will straight up appear 300+ units away from you, they're inconsistent and need changing while keeping rangers lock down potential. Trapper Runes are working as intended, they're just really strong as is rangers immobilize capabilities. > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, then you're advocating for its removal. I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > > Good try, but no dice. yea, need to go = changing. Which is true.

> @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast.

> @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say.

> @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. I am not mad, just think its bad design.

> @"Zephoid.4263" said: > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. Its not called viable, its called retarded.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > No one saw it coming ........... you are blind

f2p accounts should not be allowed in ranked. f

retarded patch, some of the retarded builds are not addressed at all. GJ anet for being so fucking bad.

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. > > > > > > The only reason it's being played is because it farms kalla renegade. Reaper is still better in teamfights. > > > > > > Id still like to see this build gone, just because it farms bad players to an unhealthy > > > > Ok, but its still popluar in high lvl ATs > > Yes, because so is Kalla. But it does not disprove my argument. You simply provided an explanation of why DH is popular at high levels. And I was simply replying to Ragnar's comment that burn DH is only viable in low level games.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. > > Yes, even very good players can get memed if going up against something they weren't expecting or haven't yet had time to figure out a strategy against. > > Did you watch today's mAT? Burn DH's having pretty minimal impacts, dying *alot*, and the winning teams on both EU and NA didn't have them. That's because now we're 6-8 weeks into this trend people are starting to figure out how to counter. Give it another 6-8 weeks and nobody will be playing them anymore at top level, all that will be left are the silver/golds who are always 3 months behind the curve. Weren't expecting. I kindda disagree, take R55 for example, Boyce started to use DH in ranked weeks before the Teapot areana, and I think they will communicate strategies of how to deal with them. But anyways, you might be right, but who knows what wil happend in another 2 months.

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. > > The only reason it's being played is because it farms kalla renegade. Reaper is still better in teamfights. > > Id still like to see this build gone, just because it farms bad players to an unhealthy Ok, but its still popluar in high lvl ATs

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams.