Legatus.3608
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Posts posted by Legatus.3608
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> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"eksn.7264" said:
> > > This is literally 2s after engaging on a mender weaver:
> > > 
> > >
> > > Balanced damage my dudes :^).
> >
> > Two double taps isn't enough to max out malice. Congrats on being yet another manipulating, screen editing, obvious setup individual posting obvious bs.
> >
> > Or are you telling us all that 5 stacks of malice is good enough to generate 20k djs?
> >
> > Not to mention the dude crit 5 times in a row without the kneel bonus. Looks legit.
>
> 6 pages, hate is real...
> Also what the problem with...alot of crits ? With 80% crit chance in pve i could not get crit in like 6 hits in a row and you surprise thief can do 6 crits in a row ? Why sceen is edited? I would rather wonder why double tap does so much damage ... or how he isnt used dodges weaver have...
He's not kneeling, which makes his crit chance more likely 60
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> @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> And what is your opinion on "aura" (chaos armor, fire shield, frost aura, light aura, magnetic aura, shocking aura), aren't they the same passive gameplay that you loath? What about all those passive trait that proc?
>
> The sPvP forum look like it returned to 2013 these day with "nerf necromancer's minion", "Nerf retal"... What's next? Nerf engi turret? Nerf confusion? Nerf stealth?
Nerf stealth never went away, it's always been with us.
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> @"eksn.7264" said:
> This is literally 2s after engaging on a mender weaver:
> 
>
> Balanced damage my dudes :^).
Two double taps isn't enough to max out malice. Congrats on being yet another manipulating, screen editing, obvious setup individual posting obvious bs.
Or are you telling us all that 5 stacks of malice is good enough to generate 20k djs?
Not to mention the dude crit 5 times in a row without the kneel bonus. Looks legit.
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> @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.
> > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.
> > > >
> > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.
> > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices:
> > > > 1. Play with your friends
> > > > 2. Play balanced games
> > > >
> > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.
> > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true
> >
> > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?
> >
> > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?
> >
> > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.
> Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread.
>
> Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard
The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes?
The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you?
Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda.
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delete post pls
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> @"BadMed.3846" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.
> > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.
> > > >
> > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.
> > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices:
> > > > 1. Play with your friends
> > > > 2. Play balanced games
> > > >
> > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.
> > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true
> >
> > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?
> >
> > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?
> >
> > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.
>
> It's wild that you ignore the whole argument and stop your foot to claim that everyone should share your views and understanding.
>
> It's obvious that you cracked a joke and we all laughed.
> It's even more obvit that you post makes no sense.
>
> Why dont you take time to read that there are inherent disadvantages to having a duo queue for a single player leaderboard based game mode. Every game mode has a purpose. Duo queue just does not align with ranked game mode purpose and associated recognition.
>
> I won't be the number one player anytime soon. But I'd like to see the number 1 player who made it there on their own merit. Rising from any tier. No crutches needed.
"Obvious" to you and your buddies who want duo queue? It's funny that you think that since the public has voted 52% to remove duo/keep restriction on duo queue. This is what happens when a group of people who agree on something sit around talking about it instead of learning outside views. "Wow, look how many of us want duo queue! Nobody in this chat wants duo restriction! Obviously everyone doesn't want duo!"
It's termed an echo chamber, might want to go educate yourself on that. You're factually incorrect, the numbers are right there on page 1 buddy.
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> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.
> > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.
> > > >
> > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.
> > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices:
> > > > 1. Play with your friends
> > > > 2. Play balanced games
> > > >
> > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.
> > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true
> >
> > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?
> >
> > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?
> >
> > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.
>
> And there is the obvious adjustment to rating that is applied to Duo Q partners where they get an inflated rating and get paired against players with higher ratings and paired with lower rated players to offset.
Assuming that this offsets the duo is a failed logic. In fact I don't think it's even a logic at all, I think you know factually that a simple rating adjustment will never offset a duo queuing as a specific team composition and are choosing to ignore that fact.
Go ahead and ask arenanet to post the numbers. It won't take a lot of effort to show who is correct.
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> @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said:
> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Don't be ridiculous.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.
> > > > > > > > Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.
> > > > > > > > Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.
> > > > > > > > Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)
> > > > > > > > Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necros
> > > > > > > > Outrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bad idea. Aside from this being too complicated to implement(only lose malice when the enemy dodged it, but not when its out of range, blind etc.), it was earlier established in this thread that DJ only hits too hard with non-viable trollbuilds. Doesn't sound like something we should take into consideration when thinking about balance. If a build can't get on the leaderboard no matter how well it's played, I just don't care to nerf it. Let the one trick pony be.
> > > > > Also I'm pretty sure they wouln't ever try to create a code to check WHY a skill missed, but if the devs felt enough pressure they would just turn malice into adrenaline 2.0. And you'd lose stacks upon casting a malicious attack, regardless of it hitting anything or not. So if you don't want that, dont advocate for losing malice on enemy dodge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not to mention, about 30% of my DJ-s miss because of bugs. That would also take malice away. I can setswap my dagger/pistol to rifle the instant my enemy(warrior) puts up shieldblock, and melee a DJ into his fat face and not hit because "out of range". Still getting the 3 seconds of revealed, because that part of the code isnt bugged... which is always nice, but losing all malice on top of these would just make it perfect though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Malice gets consumed upon hitting your marked target, or by using Mercy. You don't want to change that, trust me.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I kind of agree in the sense that DE is total trash in real spvp and wvw regardless of nerfs or buffs and don't want to call for nerfs to it. But, in terms of how the skill works, I feel like every ability in the game should have some counterplay, and I feel like dodging being a core counterplay mechanic shouldn't be negated by the ability itself.
> > > >
> > > > I don't like that someone can DODGE the deaths judgement, but the fact that the ability didn't connect means the user can just keep spamming it until the guy runs out of dodges and dies. I definitely think that's a bad mechanic, and thief has a lot of ways to restealth including during the revealed timer now. Maybe that was the original intent, because the old DJ didn't consume malice, but I don't like it.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the spec blows, so maybe give deadeye some extra utility as compensation for fixing the malice, like reducing the initiative cost of rifle 2 or adding protection during kneel - giving it some buffs for the user. I just feel like dodging the ability should negate it, not just delay the damage for 1.5 seconds.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, I do believe there is already coding in place to differentiate between dodge and other missed shots, because there is text popup saying "evade" or something when you dodge IIRC.
> > >
> > > Two things:
> > >
> > > 1- The skill is so obviously broadcasted that even tough it looks great on theory it sucks on practice. Saving a roll for DJ isn't that hard.
> > > Most DE's are running berserker and for a class that needs to root itself to the ground to attack taking it down doesn't take more than a few seconds. The whole "fails DJ and reapply stealth" isn't that broken on practice if you know how to fight thieves.
> > >
> > > 2- Said system is already in the game. Every venon works like that.
> >
> > Yes it's broadcasted and very easy to dodge, the problem I'm thinking about is that once you dodge it you haven't avoided the damage - it's still going to come as soon as the DE can restealth and fire another one, until it connects. I don't think it should work that way, even if the spec is garbage. IDK, maybe you disagree, but it doesn't seem like dodge is really countering anything at the very least. You basically can't block, reflect, projectile destroy, or dodge a DJ.
>
> My point is that in the 4 seconds of revealed its totally possible to kill the thief.
> The elite can be interrupted and even if you can't, if you have a general position of the thief it is extremely easy to pressure it even if uses his ultimate to clean reveal.
>
> Keep in mind tough that everyone in this topic seens to be focusing the 1x1 situation vs a DE, yet we all play a 5x5 game.
> If there is a DE at the team fight, its logical to focus on it since it is a high damage ranged class, just like we usually focus on World Impact Rangers to eliminate the enemy team DPS off the team fight and enforce numbers advantage.
>
> At 1x1 it can get complicate due to circumstances but it can also be manageable. In the 3~6 seconds that the thief need to ready a second DJ you can always move to a kitting spot and kill any chance of a second DJ on your face.
> As long you kite enough to always have a dodge ready, pressuring the thief until it runs away or die is extremely simple, as DE's simple doesn't have the kit for long fights.
>
> I will be sincere that I find [Three Round Burst](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Three_Round_Burst "Three Round Burst") to be more problematic than DJ most of the time.
> Talking about TRB, DJ hits so low that you can prolly eat it and reflect the TRB spam post-DJ to kill the DE.
>
> DE is a so-so roamer, and most DEs people conplain about just go to team fights and waste time. Most of the matches teams with DE loses to rotation.
> As a DPS DE also loses to classes like Power Rev and Fresh Air Ele that have way better DPS potential and burst capability.
> As a ranged DPS, DE loses to Ranger both on range, CC and DPS. Soulbeast is also able to potentially deal more damage off-stealth than the DE itself.
> DE is one of the weakest Thief vs Thief build of the game. Any Thief, be S/D, D/P or even Condi can pressure a DE out.
>
> Cmon guys. This topic is getting tiring. DE got a lot better post patch, but it is still bad.
> People in this topic are more like OMG-STEALTH-NERF IT than actual people seeking advice. Stop the drama and learn to deal with it.
You don't have to convince me dude, I've been a thief player since GW2 was released. I have no issues with DJ remaining as it is.
But, I can't say I feel right about having a hard hitting ranged ability that is unblockable, unreflectable, undestroyable, and dodging it only delays the damage by 1.5s.
Then again the spec is trash, so I don't expect it to be a problem either way. Well whatever.
-
> @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > @"BadMed.3846" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.
> > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.
> >
> > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.
> 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.
> > > > >
> > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.
> > > >
> > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.
> > >
> > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.
> > >
> > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.
> >
> > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.
> >
> > The bottom line here is you have two choices:
> > 1. Play with your friends
> > 2. Play balanced games
> >
> > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.
> It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true
It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?
Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?
Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.
-
> @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Bazsi.2734" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:
> > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't be ridiculous.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.
> > > > > > Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.
> > > > > > Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.
> > > > > > Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)
> > > > > > Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necros
> > > > > > Outrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either
> > > > >
> > > > > Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.
> > > >
> > > > Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.
> > >
> > > Bad idea. Aside from this being too complicated to implement(only lose malice when the enemy dodged it, but not when its out of range, blind etc.), it was earlier established in this thread that DJ only hits too hard with non-viable trollbuilds. Doesn't sound like something we should take into consideration when thinking about balance. If a build can't get on the leaderboard no matter how well it's played, I just don't care to nerf it. Let the one trick pony be.
> > > Also I'm pretty sure they wouln't ever try to create a code to check WHY a skill missed, but if the devs felt enough pressure they would just turn malice into adrenaline 2.0. And you'd lose stacks upon casting a malicious attack, regardless of it hitting anything or not. So if you don't want that, dont advocate for losing malice on enemy dodge.
> > >
> > > Not to mention, about 30% of my DJ-s miss because of bugs. That would also take malice away. I can setswap my dagger/pistol to rifle the instant my enemy(warrior) puts up shieldblock, and melee a DJ into his fat face and not hit because "out of range". Still getting the 3 seconds of revealed, because that part of the code isnt bugged... which is always nice, but losing all malice on top of these would just make it perfect though.
> > >
> > > Malice gets consumed upon hitting your marked target, or by using Mercy. You don't want to change that, trust me.
> >
> > Well, I kind of agree in the sense that DE is total trash in real spvp and wvw regardless of nerfs or buffs and don't want to call for nerfs to it. But, in terms of how the skill works, I feel like every ability in the game should have some counterplay, and I feel like dodging being a core counterplay mechanic shouldn't be negated by the ability itself.
> >
> > I don't like that someone can DODGE the deaths judgement, but the fact that the ability didn't connect means the user can just keep spamming it until the guy runs out of dodges and dies. I definitely think that's a bad mechanic, and thief has a lot of ways to restealth including during the revealed timer now. Maybe that was the original intent, because the old DJ didn't consume malice, but I don't like it.
> >
> > Yes, the spec blows, so maybe give deadeye some extra utility as compensation for fixing the malice, like reducing the initiative cost of rifle 2 or adding protection during kneel - giving it some buffs for the user. I just feel like dodging the ability should negate it, not just delay the damage for 1.5 seconds.
> >
> > By the way, I do believe there is already coding in place to differentiate between dodge and other missed shots, because there is text popup saying "evade" or something when you dodge IIRC.
>
> Two things:
>
> 1- The skill is so obviously broadcasted that even tough it looks great on theory it sucks on practice. Saving a roll for DJ isn't that hard.
> Most DE's are running berserker and for a class that needs to root itself to the ground to attack taking it down doesn't take more than a few seconds. The whole "fails DJ and reapply stealth" isn't that broken on practice if you know how to fight thieves.
>
> 2- Said system is already in the game. Every venon works like that.
Yes it's broadcasted and very easy to dodge, the problem I'm thinking about is that once you dodge it you haven't avoided the damage - it's still going to come as soon as the DE can restealth and fire another one, until it connects. I don't think it should work that way, even if the spec is garbage. IDK, maybe you disagree, but it doesn't seem like dodge is really countering anything at the very least. You basically can't block, reflect, projectile destroy, or dodge a DJ.
-
> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:
> > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho
> > > > >
> > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled
> > > >
> > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.
> > >
> > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.
> >
> > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.
>
> You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.
>
> Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.
I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.
The bottom line here is you have two choices:
1. Play with your friends
2. Play balanced games
The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.
-
> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > > > You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > > > I never made an argument with that position. That's all you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wutface.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know what I said and it's very clear, "Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My statement was within the context of comparing the two Elite Specs (dmg vs surv) based on the topic -- not in the context of which build is better for a high tier meta PvP in a role of decapping and +1 fights.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have said that meta build discussion is off topic since that includes team composition and goals -- which you conveniently ignored just so you can argue against a position I never made.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also said that in many cases in high tier PvP, Thief is not even needed in certain team composition since other professions can do what the Thief can do with greater efficiency. Thus discussing what build works in higher tier PvP is pointless since even your Daredevil D/P is just a troll build compared to other professions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > More often than not, the Daredevil D/P does little contribution to damage in a team fight and often a liability. Yeah good at rotations, but bad at team fights. Why do you think they rather decap than join in team fights?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deadeye D/P is an asset in team fights - a target loaded with conditions plus Malicious backstab is a guaranteed downed target. That is just the fact. Yes bad at roration, but essential to team fights. For the Deadeye to work, it requires a certain team composition (e.g. someone else has to do the decapping), thus I said it is off topic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is my position much clearer now?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes but most of what you said is still flat out wrong. The bottom line is which spec will win you more games, and that spec is meta dp daredevil.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is YOUR bottom line - NOT the topic of this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Winning more game is highly dependent to your team's performance and composition which is off topic -- I think I've said that numerous times already.
> > > >
> > > > Which is more useful in more situations is pretty clearly a direct relation to which build is going to win you more games.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Again, "useful in more situation" is subjective to team composition. Just because you run with Daredevil D/P it doesn't necessarily mean you'll win more games. I have also mentioned that in many cases, Thief is not even needed.
> > >
> > > > You can disagree with that if you want, as long as we both agree daredevil will win you more games its fine.
> > >
> > > I disagree with both of your assertions.
> >
> > Well then, we cannot agree. What you're saying is factually incorrect and I'm sure there's data out there proving this - deadeyes lose more games than daredevils in real spvp.
>
> There are so many factors why Deadeye loses games, like team composition as I am again mentioning.
>
> In addition, blaming a specific Elite Spec of a specific profession for the loss is hardly objective. And I'm going to mention this again, perhaps Thief in those team composition may not even be needed.
>
> If MetaBattle is of any indication of what is meta, you can take a look at the guide "What Profession should I play?" and this is what it says;
>
> "The Daredevil elite specialization focuses on mobility and evading attacks. In contrast, the Deadeye elite specialization sacrifices mobility for stealth and single-target burst."
>
> Which perfectly agreed with what I have posted so far. Why? Because anyone can objectively observe this fact...except you obviously.
>
> If I am "factually incorrect" as you claim, so does the MetaBattle guide.
>
> It seems at this point I've said what I need to say and I'm just repeating myself.
Are you really quoting metabattle? The site that has daredevil DP listed as meta (IE, the category ABOVE "great") and rifle deadeye as "test"?
I'm about 80% sure you're trolling this guy at this point. This is a new player who is asking what builds are more useful in more situations (daredevil) and what builds are more difficult to play (arguably daredevil also). The last thing new people need is your trolling. Stop it.
-
> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > > > You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > I never made an argument with that position. That's all you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wutface.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > I know what I said and it's very clear, "Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability".
> > > > >
> > > > > My statement was within the context of comparing the two Elite Specs (dmg vs surv) based on the topic -- not in the context of which build is better for a high tier meta PvP in a role of decapping and +1 fights.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have said that meta build discussion is off topic since that includes team composition and goals -- which you conveniently ignored just so you can argue against a position I never made.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also said that in many cases in high tier PvP, Thief is not even needed in certain team composition since other professions can do what the Thief can do with greater efficiency. Thus discussing what build works in higher tier PvP is pointless since even your Daredevil D/P is just a troll build compared to other professions.
> > > > >
> > > > > More often than not, the Daredevil D/P does little contribution to damage in a team fight and often a liability. Yeah good at rotations, but bad at team fights. Why do you think they rather decap than join in team fights?
> > > > >
> > > > > Deadeye D/P is an asset in team fights - a target loaded with conditions plus Malicious backstab is a guaranteed downed target. That is just the fact. Yes bad at roration, but essential to team fights. For the Deadeye to work, it requires a certain team composition (e.g. someone else has to do the decapping), thus I said it is off topic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is my position much clearer now?
> > > >
> > > > Yes but most of what you said is still flat out wrong. The bottom line is which spec will win you more games, and that spec is meta dp daredevil.
> > >
> > > That is YOUR bottom line - NOT the topic of this thread.
> > >
> > > Winning more game is highly dependent to your team's performance and composition which is off topic -- I think I've said that numerous times already.
> >
> > Which is more useful in more situations is pretty clearly a direct relation to which build is going to win you more games.
> >
>
> Again, "useful in more situation" is subjective to team composition. Just because you run with Daredevil D/P it doesn't necessarily mean you'll win more games. I have also mentioned that in many cases, Thief is not even needed.
>
> > You can disagree with that if you want, as long as we both agree daredevil will win you more games its fine.
>
> I disagree with both of your assertions.
Well then, we cannot agree. What you're saying is factually incorrect and I'm sure there's data out there proving this - deadeyes lose more games than daredevils in real spvp. You might be correct in lower tiers where people don't know how to respond to literally anything happening around them and rotating is a foreign concept, but at least even in plat and above (and even that bar has gotten lower lately) you will not win more games with deadeye than you do with daredevil.
For starters, any team composed of any non-DE thief, any mesmer, any ranger, or any engineer should completely shit on any deadeye build without any extra actions required by that person other than pressing his buttons. That's a big percentage of games.
-
> @"Bazsi.2734" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:
> > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't be ridiculous.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...
> > > >
> > > > You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.
> > > >
> > > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.
> > > > Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.
> > > > Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.
> > > > Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)
> > > > Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necros
> > > > Outrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.
> > > >
> > > > Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either
> > >
> > > Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.
> >
> > Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.
>
> Bad idea. Aside from this being too complicated to implement(only lose malice when the enemy dodged it, but not when its out of range, blind etc.), it was earlier established in this thread that DJ only hits too hard with non-viable trollbuilds. Doesn't sound like something we should take into consideration when thinking about balance. If a build can't get on the leaderboard no matter how well it's played, I just don't care to nerf it. Let the one trick pony be.
> Also I'm pretty sure they wouln't ever try to create a code to check WHY a skill missed, but if the devs felt enough pressure they would just turn malice into adrenaline 2.0. And you'd lose stacks upon casting a malicious attack, regardless of it hitting anything or not. So if you don't want that, dont advocate for losing malice on enemy dodge.
>
> Not to mention, about 30% of my DJ-s miss because of bugs. That would also take malice away. I can setswap my dagger/pistol to rifle the instant my enemy(warrior) puts up shieldblock, and melee a DJ into his fat face and not hit because "out of range". Still getting the 3 seconds of revealed, because that part of the code isnt bugged... which is always nice, but losing all malice on top of these would just make it perfect though.
>
> Malice gets consumed upon hitting your marked target, or by using Mercy. You don't want to change that, trust me.
Well, I kind of agree in the sense that DE is total trash in real spvp and wvw regardless of nerfs or buffs and don't want to call for nerfs to it. But, in terms of how the skill works, I feel like every ability in the game should have some counterplay, and I feel like dodging being a core counterplay mechanic shouldn't be negated by the ability itself.
I don't like that someone can DODGE the deaths judgement, but the fact that the ability didn't connect means the user can just keep spamming it until the guy runs out of dodges and dies. I definitely think that's a bad mechanic, and thief has a lot of ways to restealth including during the revealed timer now. Maybe that was the original intent, because the old DJ didn't consume malice, but I don't like it.
Yes, the spec blows, so maybe give deadeye some extra utility as compensation for fixing the malice, like reducing the initiative cost of rifle 2 or adding protection during kneel - giving it some buffs for the user. I just feel like dodging the ability should negate it, not just delay the damage for 1.5 seconds.
By the way, I do believe there is already coding in place to differentiate between dodge and other missed shots, because there is text popup saying "evade" or something when you dodge IIRC.
-
> @"babazhook.6805" said:
> > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:
> > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And you expect every class to have a counter for every situation at every given moment?
> > > >
> > > > Don't be ridiculous.
> > > >
> > > > this had a counter, they removed it (reflect). That is bad design if you can't understand that this discussion is pointless.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It still has a plethora of counters though, Dodges, Evades, Invulns, Pseudo Invulns, Blinds, CC, LoS, Body blocking, out ranging it...
> >
> > You must be fighting some god awful thieves man. or perhaps you don't realize i'm talking about DJ.
> >
> > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.
> > Does every profession have invuls? no they dont.
> > Blinds / CC: first what 1200 range blinds do you have? If you can think of some that's nice, but your also forgetting to mention the fact that the thief is coming in with stealth. you have no refrence point to hit him with blinds or CC.
> > Los: this is PvP most maps don't have decent LOS spots while on point, (obviously there are exceptions)
> > Body blocking: so your either die or killing a teamate. body blocking only work for mesmers and MM necros
> > Outrange: Are you serious? thief's have teleports. shadow step, and rehashed shadow step those are some horrible thieves.
> >
> > Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either
>
> Any decent player facing a DE is going to use his blocks and reflects and all those other measures on the Three round burst. Dodges should be held in reserve for DJ and yes you can chain two dodges in a row. It in fact how a Daredevil thief makes things hard for the DE.
Dodging twice won't nullify it sadly, the de will just restealth and fire another. This is why I think dodging a dj should remove the malice stacks.
-
> @"Rufo.3716" said:
> DJ isn't the only problem. Let's not forget about the endless stealth and the ability to port all over the battlefield. I'd take both Scourge and Mesmer OP meta over the crap thief is doing any day.
De has enough room to fit one teleport on a 45s cooldown and without stealth and shadowstep it would just be free kills
It's still free kills even with stealth and shadowstep, it just requires you to know how to beat it while those exist
Stealth and teleport actually contributes nothing to the fight on it's own, and are the only defenses thief even has. Compare to mesmer and ranger where they actually have some block and invuln, on top of a larger hp pool, and can still stealth and move around quite a bit.
Btw fun fact I just got hit by worldly impact for the first time yesterday, I checked and it did 8k. In no way did I feel like it was op and neither is deadeye (except for the 60k worldly impact thing which is obviously a bug)
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Thing about the celestial amulet is I think it is missing concentration? If it had concentration I might actaully try using it but since it doesn't I feel the amulet isn't that great. IDK what builds (if any) are actually using it.
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> @"Solori.6025" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > but DJ is a stealth attack and cannot be used if revealed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't use rifle, but that -is- how it works right? It's a flipover skill and reveals you when you use it, but you must be in stealth to begin with.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If a thief three round bursts on you from stealth, he is revealed and cant set up for DJ immediately unless he burns his elite. and that takes a full second from Meld to DJ.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > is the description wrong or something?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > hasted meld, dude.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sounds like a lot of excuses and lots of opportunities to counterplay and interrupt...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fact's are not excuses..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Excuses.
> > > > >
> > > > > triggered?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, just saying it how it’s, I’m not the one having trouble with easily avoidable highly telegraphed attacks, unlike some people.
> > >
> > > Reading is hard isn't it.....
> > > "Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either"
> > >
> > > it's obvious at this point your using this to get carried, and you wonder why the player skill level is at an all time low. do you need a hint? kitten like this.
> >
> > All these people complaining about a kitten build that isn't good in pvp or wvw at all, and the vast majority lying about how fights with DE play out.
> >
> > Tell you what, why don't you link the build for me and I will walk you through the combat with said DE build. Because every single person on these forums thinks deadeye is the only elite spec in the game with 6 trait line slots and 12 utility slots, it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Link me the build you think is OP.
>
> welcome to the club people put mesmer in. The punch is in the corner.
But in the case of mesmer the build was ACTUALLY good. The deadeye specs these people are talking about are trash builds that are generally only useful for trolling in bronze :(
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> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.
> > > >
> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > > You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.
> > > >
> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > I never made an argument with that position. That's all you.
> > > >
> > > > wutface.jpg
> > >
> > > I know what I said and it's very clear, "Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability".
> > >
> > > My statement was within the context of comparing the two Elite Specs (dmg vs surv) based on the topic -- not in the context of which build is better for a high tier meta PvP in a role of decapping and +1 fights.
> > >
> > > I have said that meta build discussion is off topic since that includes team composition and goals -- which you conveniently ignored just so you can argue against a position I never made.
> > >
> > > I also said that in many cases in high tier PvP, Thief is not even needed in certain team composition since other professions can do what the Thief can do with greater efficiency. Thus discussing what build works in higher tier PvP is pointless since even your Daredevil D/P is just a troll build compared to other professions.
> > >
> > > More often than not, the Daredevil D/P does little contribution to damage in a team fight and often a liability. Yeah good at rotations, but bad at team fights. Why do you think they rather decap than join in team fights?
> > >
> > > Deadeye D/P is an asset in team fights - a target loaded with conditions plus Malicious backstab is a guaranteed downed target. That is just the fact. Yes bad at roration, but essential to team fights. For the Deadeye to work, it requires a certain team composition (e.g. someone else has to do the decapping), thus I said it is off topic.
> > >
> > > Is my position much clearer now?
> >
> > Yes but most of what you said is still flat out wrong. The bottom line is which spec will win you more games, and that spec is meta dp daredevil.
>
> That is YOUR bottom line - NOT the topic of this thread.
>
> Winning more game is highly dependent to your team's performance and composition which is off topic -- I think I've said that numerous times already.
Which is more useful in more situations is pretty clearly a direct relation to which build is going to win you more games.
You can disagree with that if you want, as long as we both agree daredevil will win you more games its fine.
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> @"kipthelip.5802" said:
> First of all when you d> @"Faux Play.6104" said:
> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:
> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. **The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.**
> > > >
> > > > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.
> > > This is brought up a lot, but why does it matter whether or not two of your teammates happen to be grouped together? If there's a really strong duo that's queuing ranked, it's just rng whether they end up on your team or the enemy team, just like it's rng whether or not they end up on your team if they're both solo.
> > >
> > > Also, his post happens to be extremely relevant, because most people who are 1600+ WANT duo queue, so you may very well see a population increase in pvp for people who are 1600+. If this is the case, plat 1/lower player would be less likely to have people 1600+ in their matches altogether
> > >
> > >
> > It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.
> >
>
> That is countered by the fact when you win in a duo you get less MMR gain then when you are solo and when you lose to a DUO you get less MMR loss. So it washes out in the end. Get on an account that has a MMR that can still duo and do some solo and some duo and you'll quickly see what I mean. All these straw men you anti-group players line up can easily be swept away. Allowing duoing won't stop anyone good from placing high but it might just bring some people back.
It doesn't quite work that way, you don't gain points for losing more closely, you just lose less points. You're still losing the points.
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> @"Bazsi.2734" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> > > @"Arbalest.4506" said:
> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> > > >
> > > > Can’t cast the elite during the DJ animation, sorry but before DJ ever does its animation or damage the DE is Revealed with all of its blatantly obvious audio/visual tells. Also all Malice is consumed on DJ if it hits, but hey knowing how skills work is tough.
> > >
> > > Is this the skills you're talking about? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment Or am I in different game?
> > >
> > > Here is why DJ is so OP :
> > > DJ doesn't cost initiative.
> > > DJ cool down is 1 sec that's nothing consider the damage.
> > > There is 3 secs revealed but it can easily removed by DE Elite.
> > > Malic ONLY consumed if DJ hits the target, make dodging useless since DJ can be shot 2 sec later.
> > > Not to mention unblockable.
> > > Being revealed is actually why DJ hit so hard, due to additional power from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training
> > > Also knowing where the DE after casting DJ doesn't help either since you can stealth almost immediately. Not to mention 1500 range is distance only LB ranger can catch.
> >
> > I don't know why they made dj unlockable but that one fact is the only thing making the build even remotely viable right now for the same reason core thief became viable.
> >
> > You can still block everything else and dj unbuffed doesn't do much damage, and that's assuming you can't dodge the dj (which you can).
>
> The DE rework took away the original rifle stealth attack, which happened to be unblockable AND corrupt boons. They replaced it with Death's Judgement, which has better damage scaling with malice but nothing else (rip DE boonremoval). Also compared to the previous iteration, the post-rework DJ:
> - can only be used from stealth
> - costs you all your malice on hit
> - can be used without kneeling, which seems as a buff until you realise it's just a way to waste your damage, kneel is still mandatory
>
> And to offset all these changes(nerfs), they made DJ unblockable and removed the initiative cost, and it casts 1/4th of a second faster. Rifle offense is much weaker than it was before the rework, it just wasn't played at all(until other thief specs were ruined by clever and well thought out balance changes).
>
> Also I had a good chuckle reading the posts about how its impossible to counter a rifle DE-s fire. I haven't experienced the hell that is platinum 1 and below for a long time, so it's possible that you guys can't dodge an incoming DJ, or can't find LoS fast enough not to get roflstomped by a rifle DE, but im playing with and against players who can. Every match, multiple times. Get good?
>
> PS: If you were crying about the stealth on dodge I could be more understanding, but none of you even seem to care about that one.
Well I think I agree with fixing the malice on firing. I don't like that dodging the attack allows the de to fire again immediately after for almost no penalty because it doesn't use up malice.
That's the only ground I'm willing to give on a spec that is already trash though
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> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> >
> > EVERYBODY is affected by duo queue regardless of rank, I'm getting really tired of this same false argument over and over
> >
> > What you're saying is factually incorrect, there's no debating this point.
>
> THEN EXPLAIN WHY you would be affected while you are under 1600 rating. The matchmaking system still works the same, DuoQ or not. The matchmaking system will still put people with an overall average equal MMR together in 1 match. There is nothing incorrect about it.
>
You are factually incorrect, the mmr may encounter games where you and your buddy would be on separate teams if you weren't in a duo queue. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. That doesn't account for several other factors that give duo queue an advantage, either.
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> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:
> > @"Azrielvon.7836" said:
> > I believe Anet have the numbers on their side, not your opinions but whether the removal of DuoQ is beneficial to the community as a whole or not. If it favours only a small pool of players, it probably isn't the best idea.
>
> Tell me what reasoning is behind your idea that implementing a proposition that benefits only a small pool of players is bad. Then implementing a dodge key in this game is also bad, cuz the majority of ppl in PvP don't even use it.
>
> The OP is right. Most people who vote don't have any knowledge of PvP, nor are they affected by the thing they vote for.
EVERYBODY is affected by duo queue regardless of rank, I'm getting really tired of this same false argument over and over
What you're saying is factually incorrect, there's no debating this point.
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> @"Arbalest.4506" said:
> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:
> >
> > Can’t cast the elite during the DJ animation, sorry but before DJ ever does its animation or damage the DE is Revealed with all of its blatantly obvious audio/visual tells. Also all Malice is consumed on DJ if it hits, but hey knowing how skills work is tough.
>
> Is this the skills you're talking about? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment Or am I in different game?
>
> Here is why DJ is so OP :
> DJ doesn't cost initiative.
> DJ cool down is 1 sec that's nothing consider the damage.
> There is 3 secs revealed but it can easily removed by DE Elite.
> Malic ONLY consumed if DJ hits the target, make dodging useless since DJ can be shot 2 sec later.
> Not to mention unblockable.
> Being revealed is actually why DJ hit so hard, due to additional power from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training
> Also knowing where the DE after casting DJ doesn't help either since you can stealth almost immediately. Not to mention 1500 range is distance only LB ranger can catch.
I don't know why they made dj unlockable but that one fact is the only thing making the build even remotely viable right now for the same reason core thief became viable.
You can still block everything else and dj unbuffed doesn't do much damage, and that's assuming you can't dodge the dj (which you can).
I think maybe dj should consume malice when dodged though. I feel being unlockable gives dj an actual use in pvp, but dodging it should negate it I think. Hard to say without testing the builds effectiveness at people who know how to beat it. I'll do some tests when I get home.
Deadeye is broken OP
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"Legatus.3608" said:
> >
> > He's not kneeling, which makes his crit chance more likely 60
>
> ... More than sure that thief uses no quarter so he gets fury on hits AND thats common to see 8+ hits in a row to crit ...or its not for you ? :D
Idk, I remember having a fairly pedestrian crit chance before kneel when I looked