Legatus.3608

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

> > >

> > > I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

> > >

> > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

> >

> > This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

>

> This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

>

> 1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.

> 2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

>

> Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

>

> Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

>

> It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> kinda crazy that since the patch, i haven't been hit from BS for these numbers everyone is talking about

I was expecting to see a lot more of this and haven't seen much surprisingly

> @"Razoh.1734" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> > > > > I don't see how DuoQ is related to wintrading and match manipulation. If I want to deliberately lose a match, I can do that on my own as well. I don't need a DuoQ partner for that.

> > > >

> > > > Because you can queue with a smurf account with your buddy

> > > The intent of HeadCrowned.6834 was to say:

> > > You can manipulate the system with solo queue, so any argument against duo queue which centers around match manipulation is moot.

> > >

> >

> > Thats a fair point, but solo queue removes some of those possibilities at least.

> >

> > I think it would be best to just add pips/track progress to unranked and make cosmetics the only extra reward for ranked play though, because I feel like most of the toxicity and manipulation and stuff comes from people and/or bots farming the rewards. If you can make the rewards a little less profitable than other sources of farming (so bots are more encouraged to stay out of pvp because other things are more profitable), and put cosmetics as the only bonus for doing ranked, I think the match manipulating and toxicity would both improve noticeably.

> >

> > I also don't think team queues of any size should be mixed with solo queues but that's a different issue I guess.

>

> Most of the toxicity and manipulation suffers from tryhards not from ppl that farm rewards, where is logic in that :open_mouth:

Why are they tryharding though?

Maybe a better question is, would you be playing in the same queue as them if there weren't rank-only rewards?

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> > > I don't see how DuoQ is related to wintrading and match manipulation. If I want to deliberately lose a match, I can do that on my own as well. I don't need a DuoQ partner for that.

> >

> > Because you can queue with a smurf account with your buddy

> The intent of HeadCrowned.6834 was to say:

> You can manipulate the system with solo queue, so any argument against duo queue which centers around match manipulation is moot.

>

Thats a fair point, but solo queue removes some of those possibilities at least.

I think it would be best to just add pips/track progress to unranked and make cosmetics the only extra reward for ranked play though, because I feel like most of the toxicity and manipulation and stuff comes from people and/or bots farming the rewards. If you can make the rewards a little less profitable than other sources of farming (so bots are more encouraged to stay out of pvp because other things are more profitable), and put cosmetics as the only bonus for doing ranked, I think the match manipulating and toxicity would both improve noticeably.

I also don't think team queues of any size should be mixed with solo queues but that's a different issue I guess.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

>

> I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

>

> In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

The main difference between a thief and a ranger or mesmer is the thief steal mechanic. Like a ranger has his pet and mesmer has clones, thief has steal.

I think steal needs to be reworked into something more meaningful and more impactful than it is now. For example stealing could actually disable the weapon skills (1-5) of the victim (mesmer lets say) and grant those to the thief (using the mesmer stats in case he's condi and you're power etc).

That might be too broken but I think something along those lines. I don't really like the current steal mechanic. I feel like the only reason missing steal is bad right now is because of the traits tied to it and not because the steal itself matters. Maybe stealing could grant the thief 20% bonus stats and take 20% from the victim and disable one skill on the bar for a short duration

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > Duo is already breaking the system at lower brackets and people have proven they will abuse duo queue for match manipulating.

> >

> > If anything they need to remove duo queue altogether from the 1600-. Right now the meta isn't to mesmer or scourge, its to match manipulate with duo queue shenanigans up until 1600 then win trade to the top.

> >

> > Banning win traders did help but its still insanely obvious this stuff still goes on

>

> I don't see how DuoQ is related to wintrading and match manipulation. If I want to deliberately lose a match, I can do that on my own as well. I don't need a DuoQ partner for that.

Because you can queue with a smurf account with your buddy

Duo is already breaking the system at lower brackets and people have proven they will abuse duo queue for match manipulating.

If anything they need to remove duo queue altogether from the 1600-. Right now the meta isn't to mesmer or scourge, its to match manipulate with duo queue shenanigans up until 1600 then win trade to the top.

Banning win traders did help but its still insanely obvious this stuff still goes on

I lost 5 games in a row yesterday where I was 12-2 or better in every single one using deadeye

Think about that for a minute, 12 times enemies were in the dead box and we still lost... multiple times

The final one I think I was 15-3. Keep in mind people focus deadeye so i was largely the only person being attacked as well. I challenge you to explain how that turns into a loss... Is like my teammates aren't even there

Are you a rev player (looking at your icon)? I'm just curious what class you're playing to have this experience, I've seen terrible players everywhere on both sides of the game and generally find that I can't kill and decap fast enough to keep up with my team's wiping in 5v3s from the few placements I did before I stopped playing again. The final straw was when I went home at start and after giving everyone basi and ran out the gate the guardian followed me to home... like what

> @"Arbalest.4506" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > The important thing is that there should be counterplay and the build(s) in question (arguably but in my opinion) should not be top-tier builds. In the case of thief, every single one-shot build meets both of those conditions, so I don't see a problem with the build specifically.

> So what is the counterplay for pre-cast instakill attack + stealth + teleport ?

>

> If you want to talk about trap as counterplay. Vault like most of thief attacks can be pre casted and hit the trapper before trap is triggered. You will need a very dumb thief to get killed by traps after the trapper is down.

>

> If you think block / dodge /immunity should do. We have very limited of those and no one can pop defense without any awareness of from where and when the thief will attack. Remember stealth + teleport.

>

> Maybe only bunker can survive the initial attack and pop their defensive cooldown. But by that time the game should be called 1-shot vs bunker instead of pvp.

>

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > Now, if you're unable to see the tells in some instances due to smoke being hidden behind walls or latency or other such shenanigens, then those issues SHOULD be addressed. But definitely DON'T pin this as a "thief vault/dj is OP" problem, because that's not what this is. There were tells given in multiple different forms and it should fall to the player to react to them (and in one specific case apparently, to the game to display them correctly).

>

> That may be true, but thief can decide not to attack until its target uses all of defensive cooldown. After all, the vulnerability + might from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Trapper last for 10 secs.

> Also as stated by Kawloon you can precast vault + steal (or other teleport stuff really) and no one will now they'll die 0.5 sec later.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The trap in question has to trigger before the thief can port, that's the tell. You said yourself that the timing is 10 seconds - so that's how long the thief has to respond to the trigger. The "trapee" should start rotating his defensive abilities when the tell goes off.

Remember this is a 1shot build you're talking about, this isn't a marauder geared thief with tons of cds - he has 11k hp, most likely no escapes on bar and is built only to 1shot his opponent. All you have to do is avoid that first hit and you basically won the fight. It would be very difficult to lose to a thief who has blown all his shit on a 1shot maneuver and failed to connect it. I find it interesting that the clip doesn't show the before or after, because the thief in the video was clearly afk until you triggered the trap and then probably died to your teammates after he downed you.

The one thing I might agree on is the "tell" not accurately predicting the attack since it has a 10s window. But there are a few things about this.

First, the thief should be out doing other things - not placing the trap and then sitting afk until someone triggers it. This means he won't have full INI or utilities. If he is sitting there, that's a boon for your team and you can adjust accordingly. But he should be in combat already which means he won't be coming into the fight fully prepared. Second, if you know the guy is trapping the nodes, you can simply avoid the trap by dodging into the node. Third, this trap isn't substantially different from any other stealth or teleport tactics, which are used by tons of builds in this game, not just thief.

TLDR is, there's a reason why nobody uses this trap and why people are so confused about the visuals, the reason is that the ability is junk. Also, I have no idea how he got vault to do 19k, I've never seen that before in my life. Looks like raid buffed thief tbh.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> I also hate the map selection screen being permanent. It's been on our list of future QoL changes for a while. I'm hoping once swiss gets in, we'll have more time for some things like this.

Just delete it man, the managers probably won't even notice that your finger "accidentally" slipped onto the delete pvp_mapselection_window.class button because it won't be there any more, what could possibly go wrong? =)

> @"Arbalest.4506" said:

> > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > @"Hyraltia.4185" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > the pvp in getting more and more brainless one shot festa

> > > > > less fun and no chance to fight back at all

> > > >

> > > > I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that

> > >

> > > I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in.

> > >

> > > When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese. It's extremely bad for the health of a pvp game to have the "counterplay" to being one shot to randomly predict when a stealth person is gonna jump on you and blow you up, this is the same reason people wanted mirage nerfed, because no one has fun plying rng simulator with their life.

> >

> > It actually leads to 3 types of player: those who know to counter it, those who learn how to play against it, and those who cry about it, the later one probably overlaps with your "those that despise it" category. One shot builds are not the problem in this game. The real problem are builds that can constantly one shot you once every 10 seconds or less, who also have strog defense mecanics and can't be one shoted back by another glass canon. Cause lets face it, glass canons should be the only clases that should be able to 1shot. Oh and the 10 seconds interval i mentoned is the time one needs to recover energy for a dodge, it makes the 1shot dodgeable unless you waste evades. And yeah there are proffesions with builds that can 1shot you in a time frame less than 10 seconds while having enough defense mecanics to go toe to toe with sustained builds. I guess those are the real offenders in the game right now.

>

> And how exactly you can counterplay a SINGLE instakill attack that came from stealth? Because that is the problem in the game right now.

>

> It may be okay for glass canon to do 1-shot against another glass canon. But the ele in video is not really a glass canon. He invest some of offensive stats to VITALITY, yet the thief can still instakill him FROM STEALTH.

>

> And killing player in a frame of 10 secs is not 1-shot. A lot of things can happen in that scenario. Every profession can do that.

Every profession can also 1shot if they build for it and are given the right circumstances (target is thief or ele). There isn't a single class in the game that isn't able to do it.

The important thing is that there should be counterplay and the build(s) in question (arguably but in my opinion) should not be top-tier builds. In the case of thief, every single one-shot build meets both of those conditions, so I don't see a problem with the build specifically.

Now, if you're unable to see the tells in some instances due to smoke being hidden behind walls or latency or other such shenanigens, then those issues SHOULD be addressed. But definitely DON'T pin this as a "thief vault/dj is OP" problem, because that's not what this is. There were tells given in multiple different forms and it should fall to the player to react to them (and in one specific case apparently, to the game to display them correctly).

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > > > > > > > Can someone explain how to avoid the one shot thief vault build? Like against a power mesmer one shot once you know what to look for dodging is easy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Watch out for sudden, black gas visuals near the surface (happened in the video). The gas = trap activated. DANGER /!\ Thief has teleported to you and is a second away from one-shotting you! /!\

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's easy to know what to do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shadow trap is so rare that you could probably count the number of people who know this Vidal effect on two hands.

> > > > >

> > > > > 100% of this. Or one...

> > > >

> > > > Wonder how many people didn't notice it in the video.

> > >

> > > Honestly i saw the black smoke but didnt think much of it...had an itch on my face and moved my hand off my mouse then i just died...it a moment of gw ill never forget...like where i was on 9-11 some things u just cant forget no mattwr how much u want to

> >

> > Hahahahaha, this death was so traumatic he will remember it as much as 9-11

> >

> > Well done job then, we need this to happen to more mesmer players :D

>

> Im not a mesmer player at all

Ooh sorry lol I saw pink icon and thought mesmer lol

Anyways is still a joke to compare this to 9-11

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > > > > > Can someone explain how to avoid the one shot thief vault build? Like against a power mesmer one shot once you know what to look for dodging is easy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Watch out for sudden, black gas visuals near the surface (happened in the video). The gas = trap activated. DANGER /!\ Thief has teleported to you and is a second away from one-shotting you! /!\

> > > > >

> > > > > It's easy to know what to do.

> > > >

> > > > Shadow trap is so rare that you could probably count the number of people who know this Vidal effect on two hands.

> > >

> > > 100% of this. Or one...

> >

> > Wonder how many people didn't notice it in the video.

>

> Honestly i saw the black smoke but didnt think much of it...had an itch on my face and moved my hand off my mouse then i just died...it a moment of gw ill never forget...like where i was on 9-11 some things u just cant forget no mattwr how much u want to

Hahahahaha, this death was so traumatic he will remember it as much as 9-11

Well done job then, we need this to happen to more mesmer players :D

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > > By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

> > > >

> > > > I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

> > >

> > > Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

> > >

> > > Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

> >

> > Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

> >

> > The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

> >

> > It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

> >

> > You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

>

> you do know that since the rework quite a while ago, DJ is a stealth attack, 1/2s cast instead of 3/4s and is **unblockable**, right? this also means **you can not reflect it**. but i still see daily a ton of people trying to reflect it, just to realize they cant. go ahead try it.

> as a deadeye i really like that you defend it, but not with false information :3

I personally don't feel like I should have to defend a troll build that just loses games for the team using it.

But, I did not know that unblockable also breaks reflect :o

> @"Arbalest.4506" said:

> > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > This is an RNG, one-trick pony build that relies on people stepping on your traps.

> In conquest everyone will step on point so having people trigger a trap is no longer RNG.

>

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > AOEs and other traps counter this build.

> >

> > This is truth. Many times, it's an absolute blind teleport with no recourse. I can't recall the number of times I teleported into a Ranger's or Guardian's traps.

> I don't know how you can teleport to ranger's/guardian's trap. But at least trapper guardian/ranger are mostly visible and doesn't have access to 1-shot build.

>

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > This is the life of the Thief. Getting one-shot/insta-downed whether the opponents are invisible or not. It's a two-edged sword. Single-target damage is literally the only thing a Thief can do decently.

> I don't know what you mean by double edge sword? it's free kill from stealth. And last time i check, vault can hit 5 targets in 180 radius.

>

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > It was completely unlike the Ranger being able to hit for 30k+ ([22k through Protection](https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousAlertSharkCopyThis)) from Stealth with absolutely no tell or target/field preparation (traps, malice, etc.).

> While I agree that ranger needs nerf too your statement is totally wrong.

> Ranger needs preparation to do that kind of damage. They have to activate Sic'em and Strength of the pack. Also stealth is count as preparation too.

Funny how stealth is preparation for a ranger but not for a thief, and how backstab or dj are one shot builds but worldly impact or maul is not

I'm not even going to bother arguing the actual build until you clear out all that really obvious bias

> @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

> >

> > I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

>

> Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

>

> Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

You say its applying too much pressure, but it isn't applying any at all. You press dodge once on the buffed dj -> win game. It's not an exaggeration, you dodge one ability and win the game. Or reflect or los for the same result. Where is the pressure coming from? The pressure that requires you to be semi-conscious while you play?

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > > Can someone explain how to avoid the one shot thief vault build? Like against a power mesmer one shot once you know what to look for dodging is easy.

> >

> > Watch out for sudden, black gas visuals near the surface (happened in the video). The gas = trap activated. DANGER /!\ Thief has teleported to you and is a second away from one-shotting you! /!\

> >

> > It's easy to know what to do.

>

> Shadow trap is so rare that you could probably count the number of people who know this Vidal effect on two hands.

Still isn't the thiefs fault you don't know what the obvious telegraph looks like

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > that was WvW not spvp. the build used there you wont see in spvp because it is way to reliant on stealth wich is pretty stupid in spvp. different modes, different playstyles. you have way more time and way more space to fight in WvW. soo wrong forum.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > you and your holo (with Merciless Legend title so prolly not full noob) of whom i wasnt sure if he had lock on were in your buffed camp so ofc i fought cautiously. you didnt show the malice buildup in the video that was before.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Stealth is an annoying meme mechanic as it functions in GW2, and unilaterally opens up into a huge burst chain no matter which class utilizes it. Rangers go from stealth into burst; mesmers do it; thieves do it; even engineers did it to an extent back in the day. Moreover, the most frustrating thing about playing against stealth in GW2 is how passive a stealth-user can afford to be while a target who doesn't have stealth has to constantly do guesswork throughout the entire stealth chain since re-engagement from stealth is always instantaneous if played """well""" or """correctly.""" The fact that anyone can just instantly activate perfect invisibility, linger in it for up to 20 seconds and then re-engage from range without any warning or risk to the user is a total joke of a design when framed within a player vs player encounter. Stats don't matter--not even skill matters at that point. Everything is put behind such a huge margin afforded to the guy who rolled the class with stealth, especially if that guy chooses deliberately to fight a class without it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this all would matter if there would be a real deathmatch mode or a last man standing mode. we got only courtyard spvp map but this is not even in ranked or unranked. in any other part of the game it is not efficient to play with long stealth.

> > > > > > going stealth instantly is just possible with a few abilities and none of them grants 20s stealth, actually only shadowrefuge with SA grants 20 seconds and is not instant. so you got to keep stacking stealth for that 20 seconds , wich again costs resources, be it some cooldowns or in case of thief initative and endurance wich will effect the fight after. further most stealth skills have a visual tell even when used from stealth and you can usually see combo fields used to stack stealth aswell to guess their position or even reveal them with reveal skills or by getting hit with a combo finisher.

> > > > > > many people seem to dismiss that everything for stealth, be it traits, utilities or weapon skills / ini / endurance, all of it is an investment. you dont profit from it once your out of stealth so the opener better be worth the investment. that is how gw2 balances stealth. you have lot of options to go stealth, many of them can be countered but they are all of short duration. if you want long stealth you have to invest resources into stealth constantly so you will lack them once your out of stealth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Perma stealth is still unacceptable since you went stealth even after stomping that guy... How would anyone after his death be able to get a sneeze at you??? You can take out an whole army with that thing and the best thing is you can do it without a scratch unless everyone is inside a reflect bubble and totally spike trapped... This sounds ridiculous... Revealed is supposed to be the smart person's counter, but even that can be easily kicked away like a defenseless puppy with DE... Don't argue that you invest so much on stealth... If you have perma stealth and can only deal 1dmg, that is still OP... Imagine gw2 in future being overrun by DE everywhere and almost everyone ditching all professions and "guild wars" renamed to "DE wars" LOL

> > > >

> > > > you clearly have no clue about how hard it is for a deadeye to kill someone.

> > >

> > > It isn't difficult at all. Just because it isn't **effective** doesn't mean that it isn't maximum low effort.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That's like saying permastealth in sPvP is too good because it requires no effort

> >

> > The point is you aren't doing anything relevant to the game, effort or not

>

> Yes, but that's precisely the point: the spec is engineered to do that. The player is going to be disadvantaged if he/she tries to play DE without dumping out a big, low effort stealth chain onto the field. The user is going to be able to do this. No effort. Whether or not it works is mostly chance, guesswork, and the user somehow not messing up the extremely complicated task of pressing a handful of buttons that are all auto-aimed onto a selected target.

>

> There is zero player-mechanical skill involved. It isn't consistently effective, but considering how little effort a user has to put into this build's main "playstyle," when it **does** work, the user gets a free kill within a handful of seconds for the grand total of waiting around for half a minute before pressing all of 2-3 buttons: no effort; no skill; balanced by chance (RNG).

Yes, he will eventually kill some afk players.

Unfortunately, he's still going to lose all his matches, contribute nothing in wvw, and die to anyone who is able to dodge one obviously telegraphed attack. It's exactly what I said it is: a troll spec that contributes nothing to actually DOING anything

You people keep talking about that one guy he killed after losing 20 matches, but conveniently ignore the 20 losses. That isn't opness, it's bias.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Its actually a good video and question for anet ... WHY THE F00K attacks from stealth doesnt reveal asap and they have for some reason solid second or even sometimes few being completely invisible and untargetable

A lot of it stems from the fact that some skills apply their effects immediately and some wait until the end of the cast time.

> @"eksn.7264" said:

> If they ever revamped stronghold to be good, mounts could be used ala Heroes of the Storm.

New game mode: moba style map but with gw2 characters

Scale the level up from 1 as you kill creeps etc

It could actually work tbh

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > There's actually a third type of player, the player that knows how to avoid the single 20k hit with the knowledge that avoiding it is an auto win

>

> That went over my head until now.

>

> If it's a oneshot build why aren't you dodging the one shot?

Cuz I want to win pvp but I can't be bothered to DON'TWANTTOPRESSMUHBUTTONS

Plz just nerf thief instead so I can win without having to actually look at my screen. Pc monitors are expensive and I shouldn't have to pay 2 win by buying a monitor and keyboard, ffs

> @"Hyraltia.4185" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > the pvp in getting more and more brainless one shot festa

> > > less fun and no chance to fight back at all

> >

> > I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that

>

> I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in.

>

> When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese.

There's actually a third type of player, the player that knows how to avoid the single 20k hit with the knowledge that avoiding it is an auto win

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> the pvp in getting more and more brainless one shot festa

> less fun and no chance to fight back at all

I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that