Legatus.3608

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Kawloon Fuathach.3807" said:

> > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > > > > Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will screencap it next time.

> > > > >

> > > > > I got you buddy! [https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW](https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW "https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW")

> > > > > This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

> > > >

> > > > The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

> > >

> > > maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

> > >

> > > I hit ~19k on the same golem **type** using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Might and vulnerability were already stacked (not capped, but there's a lot in the build already) and there certainly isn't anywhere near enough to reach 30k

>

> I had a reve boost me to 20 might with the trap and my timing...and got 21.2k, and and 15 vuln from the sig and trap. (the previous post was just the same build he posted, but I wanted to play around to see what I could do with a little boost)

>

> now there is a 2% more damage per unique conditions. so maybe if i could have 3-4 unique conditions on the foe with max might and max vuln a 30k might be possible.

>

> [21.2k vault basics](https://i.imgur.com/42rwEPO.png "https://i.imgur.com/42rwEPO.png")

>

> or maybe the mesmer in that post was a naked idiot and took double the damage...so 34k/2 = 17k...a no problem hit.

>

> But on average, i can do about 18-19k on lights with nothing but the build he posted.

>

>

> I am just guessing though.

>

> It is easier for me to do a 28-30k worldly impact than to get a 21k vault...and I am probably already hitting hard as f--- before the big shabang

That's exactly my point, he's hitting naked eles with full raid buffs and conditions and people are screening it as normal damage. This damage is not possible through normal means, you can't magically double the damage with a few extra stacks of vuln and conditions

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > > By frustrate, I meant the actual frustration.... No way to stay alive... Death in 2 secs... ;)

> > > >

> > > > I didn't know you have to give up the ability to dodge, block and reflect to become a bunker.

> > >

> > > Dodge is the only option... And for bunkers fighting and staying on points, it's always used up most of the time... Pressure from cqc guys hard to stay vigilant of health with a sudden 12k~20k drop in health, it's almost instant death... Running away is nearly impossible but only a pro can reset fight at that point... meanwhile, the thief who takes potshots necessarily need not be one to do that dmg.... U get my point??? That's why I mentioned it a frustration...

> > >

> > > Anyway it's up to a person's mindset weather to really accept it or not... Or suggest more cliche responses like "use dodge" "run away" "block" "signet" that's beside the point I'm trying to make... If you feel that's not at all a frustration for warriors and guards and esp necros, idk what is...

> >

> > Reflect doesn't work on dj? Use dodge is somehow not a valid suggestion?

> >

> > The build has damage that you dodge once to break the entire build. Dodge that damage and win the fight. Or reflect it and win the fight.

> >

> > It's actually NOT USEFUL at anything but trolling and losing games. Why should you not have to press your dodge button? Provide a valid reason.

> >

> >

>

> Ill assume you havent thought about the math based on your response so let me put it into perspective.

>

> DJ happens while in stealth. It does have an audio queue yes, and dodging is the only way to avoid it, however did you know that a DE can use DJ more times than you can dodge? Once they bait out your dodges then dodging becomes useless. If DJ wasn't unblockable (or hit as hard as it does) then it wouldn't be bad.

>

This is factually incorrect. You can dodge more frequently than a fully buffed dj can be fired, in terms of cooldown and timers and the initiative system.

Yes a regular dj can be fired more than you can dodge but getting hit for 5k isn't gamebreaking

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Kawloon Fuathach.3807" said:

> > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > > Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

> > > > >

> > > > > Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

> > > >

> > > > It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

> > > >

> > > > I will screencap it next time.

> > >

> > > I got you buddy! [https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW](https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW "https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW")

> > > This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

> >

>

> >

> > Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

> >

> > The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

>

> maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

>

> I hit ~19k on the same golem **type** using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

>

> 

>

Might and vulnerability were already stacked (not capped, but there's a lot in the build already) and there certainly isn't anywhere near enough to reach 30k

I saw a situation yesterday where i went to +1 the side node and both my teammate and the enemy player were down. Nobody else was there. So I thought ok ill finish off the other player and my teammate will rally... well he didn't rally so idk. I was kind of surprised by it, up until that game rally had been pretty consistent for me

> @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.

> >

> You're describing a scenario where there's 10 players queuing for a match and two of them happen to be queued together, and the players are just randomly distributed across the two teams. What happens when you actually account for stuff like how your personal mmr impacts whether you'll be grouped with a particular set of players when a matchmaker tries to create teams with equal average mmrs, how the matchmaker will try to even out the 10 player's respective professions so that they're distributed evenly to the two teams, how a matchmaker will typically tend to place a duo on each team in cases where there are duos in a match? Idk, maybe you're right and if we allow players rated 1600+ to duo together, solo queue players will just be turbo-kitten and lose 62.5% of the time, but I played back when duo queues were allowed and I solo queued without that being a problem

Implying that mmr will somehow distribute people to the 3 slots more than the 5 slots, riiight

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

> >

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.

> >

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > I never made an argument with that position. That's all you.

> >

> > wutface.jpg

>

> I know what I said and it's very clear, "Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability".

>

> My statement was within the context of comparing the two Elite Specs (dmg vs surv) based on the topic -- not in the context of which build is better for a high tier meta PvP in a role of decapping and +1 fights.

>

> I have said that meta build discussion is off topic since that includes team composition and goals -- which you conveniently ignored just so you can argue against a position I never made.

>

> I also said that in many cases in high tier PvP, Thief is not even needed in certain team composition since other professions can do what the Thief can do with greater efficiency. Thus discussing what build works in higher tier PvP is pointless since even your Daredevil D/P is just a troll build compared to other professions.

>

> More often than not, the Daredevil D/P does little contribution to damage in a team fight and often a liability. Yeah good at rotations, but bad at team fights. Why do you think they rather decap than join in team fights?

>

> Deadeye D/P is an asset in team fights - a target loaded with conditions plus Malicious backstab is a guaranteed downed target. That is just the fact. Yes bad at roration, but essential to team fights. For the Deadeye to work, it requires a certain team composition (e.g. someone else has to do the decapping), thus I said it is off topic.

>

> Is my position much clearer now?

Yes but most of what you said is still flat out wrong. The bottom line is which spec will win you more games, and that spec is meta dp daredevil.

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"Sthenastia.3642" said:

> > Is it possible to cast 2x ~25 000 dps points?

> >

> > http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/dpspng_qnxeesw.png

>

> Yes. DJ has no recast time like all thief weapon skills.

Yep, you can cast two DJ's in a row.

Of course, getting full malice stacks without hitting the target with at least 3 crits from initiative-spending attacks in between is not possible, and firing the first DJ uses all of them, not to mention the need to re-stealth in between shots, so the image shown here is also *not possible*

But keep the screen edits coming I rather enjoy the entertainment of the obvious bs people are throwing around, ZOMG I GOT HIT BY TWO DJS IN A ROW yeah sure you did buddy. Just out of curiosity what class were you playing to have more than 50k health? Is it the elite 10th class referred to as the arenanet build special?

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > > > > > > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > but DJ is a stealth attack and cannot be used if revealed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don't use rifle, but that -is- how it works right? It's a flipover skill and reveals you when you use it, but you must be in stealth to begin with.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If a thief three round bursts on you from stealth, he is revealed and cant set up for DJ immediately unless he burns his elite. and that takes a full second from Meld to DJ.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > is the description wrong or something?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > hasted meld, dude.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sounds like a lot of excuses and lots of opportunities to counterplay and interrupt...

> > > > >

> > > > > Fact's are not excuses..

> > > >

> > > > Excuses.

> > >

> > > triggered?

> >

> > Nope, just saying it how it’s, I’m not the one having trouble with easily avoidable highly telegraphed attacks, unlike some people.

>

> Reading is hard isn't it.....

> "Let's put it this way i have 11k life running a full glass core d/d thief spec.i have 0 problems killing deadeyes. But i can't honestly say Deadeye is a healthy spec for pvp? You can't either"

>

> it's obvious at this point your using this to get carried, and you wonder why the player skill level is at an all time low. do you need a hint? kitten like this.

All these people complaining about a shitty build that isn't good in pvp or wvw at all, and the vast majority lying about how fights with DE play out.

Tell you what, why don't you link the build for me and I will walk you through the combat with said DE build. Because every single person on these forums thinks deadeye is the only elite spec in the game with 6 trait line slots and 12 utility slots, it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Link me the build you think is OP.

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> > *Might* occur, rofl, it's not like wintrade weekend is a well known concept or anything

> >

> > Duo queue leading to more competitive matches is a funny joke. Pick one:

> > 1. single player can control the game better than two players

> > 2. two players can control the game better than one player

> >

> > So, if a duo can control a game better than one player, how the hell does having duo queue make matches MORE competitive? It's very clearly and obviously going to make them more lopsided, this isn't even a debate it's an obvious fact.

>

> You probably forgot the part where I wrote that it needs to match DuoQ against Duoq. So, yes it DOES make for more competitive matches.

> DuoQ simply reduces the volatility of MMR, sooner or later the pool would sort itself out and begin to do (depending on division) Skilled Duo vs Skilled duo in each match where Duo is present, instead of "5 maybe good maybe bad vs. 5 Maybe good maybe bad".

Look man I'm trying to find common ground with you but the stuff youre saying is factually untrue. Duo queue is NOT going to lead to more competitive matches, that's so blatantly wrong it's not even worth discussing.

You're trying to make an argument for duo queue and literally using the only incorrect argument to that end

> @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > It's not RNG at all, you're statistically less likely to fill a team with 3 potentially open slots than you are for a team with 4 potentially open slots. Further, you're intentionally preventing the match making algorithm to properly balance the teams by not allowing it to place people on opposing teams. Not to mention the inherent advantages of being in voice comms with your friends and/or having complementary builds or strategies.

> Have you considered that the matchmaker is most likely going to try to put a duo on each team in games where there are duos?

> > Do you want to play with your buddies **or do you want the rating system and pvp itself to actually mean anything at all?** You can't have both. How many teams are there in the average AT? And how many of those teams consistently win the ATs? Whatever you see in AT's, that's the identical result of allowing teams in regular pvp.

> The players that are actually going to appear on the leaderboard are the players that are 1600+ and want duo queue lol

>

> Do you think every game with players below 1600 is meaningless trash because it's possible for players to be queued together in duos?

>

>

As a matter of fact, yes, I do

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> I never made an argument with that position. That's all you.

wutface.jpg

> @"Kawloon Fuathach.3807" said:

> > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

> > >

> > > Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

> >

> > It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

> >

> > I will screencap it next time.

>

> I got you buddy! [https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW](https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW "https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhW")

> This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.


Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> I believe having DuoQ increases the chances for having more competitive matches, assuming that being in DuoQ would automatically match against other DuoQs.

> When Two players (as in multiple of two players) Aim for Legendary as to get more competitive matches, then those DuoS will eventually end up there more reliable than alone even though their individual skill matches the higher spots as well, which will increase concentration of good players in one division.

> This way more skilled players will end up in higher Divisions instead of being scattered around by the sheer volatility of Random teams.

> Players who DuoQ for random fun or rewards would likely not reach there. And if they did even in face of good Duos, then obviously, they are good enough to make up for competitive play even while playing for fun.

> It's very possible to carry pug to at least Plat as well just to spoil it, but that is not what I'm interested in and is also not what most competitive players would aim for.

>

> Yes, DuoQ is exploitable by Wintraders, but that is something Anet needs to monitor and look in to, not implementing a good feature should not be the fix to a problem that **might** occure.

>

> **Tl;dr**

> **In my opinion DuoQ without restriction, increases the chances for competitive play for those who seek it, which is what Rank should be, while at the same time preventing farmers from flooding high divisions by reducing their "luck" or impact of "op builds"**

*Might* occur, rofl, it's not like wintrade weekend is a well known concept or anything

Duo queue leading to more competitive matches is a funny joke. Pick one:

1. single player can control the game better than two players

2. two players can control the game better than one player

So, if a duo can control a game better than one player, how the hell does having duo queue make matches MORE competitive? It's very clearly and obviously going to make them more lopsided, this isn't even a debate it's an obvious fact.

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> We just had this poll a few days ago>

>

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> >

> > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.

> >

> > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

>

> Players under 1600 still get queued against high level players. Another question is why do they get to play with their friends but we cant? Thats why those players shouldnt be allowed to vote, because they dont know how it feels being alone all the time

>

> As for you thinking the game is better off wihout duo q, queue times have been longer each season ever since they removed duo q. mmr is still kitten as well. Ive had games where multiple plat 2+ players were matched against gold players. The last poll was also in favor of duo q(50-49%). And just about every high level player wants it back

1. Play with your friends

2. Meaningful pvp that isn't trash

Pick one

> @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. **The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.**

> >

> > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

> This is brought up a lot, but why does it matter whether or not two of your teammates happen to be grouped together? If there's a really strong duo that's queuing ranked, it's just rng whether they end up on your team or the enemy team, just like it's rng whether or not they end up on your team if they're both solo.

>

> Also, his post happens to be extremely relevant, because most people who are 1600+ WANT duo queue, so you may very well see a population increase in pvp for people who are 1600+. If this is the case, plat 1/lower player would be less likely to have people 1600+ in their matches altogether

>

>

It's not RNG at all, you're statistically less likely to fill a team with 3 potentially open slots than you are for a team with 4 potentially open slots. Further, you're intentionally preventing the match making algorithm to properly balance the teams by not allowing it to place people on opposing teams. Not to mention the inherent advantages of being in voice comms with your friends and/or having complementary builds or strategies.

Look I'm sorry but you can have either 5 man teams or solo queues, and under the current population a 5 man queue would kill pvp the same way it led to pointless repeat matchup farming in SWTOR. The fact that duo queue even exists at all in a rated system with 5 man teams regardless of bracket is a total fucking joke.

Do you want to play with your buddies or do you want the rating system and pvp itself to actually mean anything at all? You can't have both. How many teams are there in the average AT? And how many of those teams consistently win the ATs? Whatever you see in AT's, that's the identical result of allowing teams in regular pvp.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > > I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

> > > > >

> > > > > In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

> > > >

> > > > This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

> > >

> > > This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

> > >

> > > 1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.

> > > 2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

> > >

> > > Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

> > >

> > > Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

> > >

> > > It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

> >

> > There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

> >

> > Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

>

> You see, that's the problem. You are trying to use an Elite Spec for decapping when it is not built for decapping. Decapping is trolling by the way. If your team composition can hold two nodes, your team don't need a decapping troll like Daredevil D/P. In fact, you don't even need a Thief at all.

>

> As I've already explained. Meta discussion is more than just picking a build for your Thief. You have to build your Thief based on your team's composition and goal.

>

> And since you already admitted that Deadeye's "damage is better than dp" Daredevil, I rest my case.

Decapping is not trolling rofl. Its an important part of the game. If you don't understand the importance of decapping you don't understand conquest. Rotating is often the concept that separates bad players from good ones, and daredevil enables good rotation from its ability to decap and move faster than any other build. It's the reason they keep nerfing dp and the build stays meta anyways.

Deadeye on the other hand is only good against new people which is why its called a troll spec. One somebody has played against the two common deadeye specs they both become very easy to shut down.

You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.

> @"Sinful.2165" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > This thread already exists twice and its been explained multiple times why your asserting that 1600 teams dont affect lower tier players is wrong

> >

> > Please stop spamming the forums with your false assertions

> >

> > /thread

>

> If the argument is that MMR dips too low to pull players together for games; the counterpoint can be made that the reason is because PvP population is in a severe decline due to a multitude of reasons, one of which is not being able to play with your friends in a multiplayer game. The solo nature of the ranked queue means you have to deal with people farming the legendary backpack achievements by playing with 3 different classes, bad players being placed at a high rating right out of the gate and getting farmed down to their skill level (duo or not, they're getting farmed down for good reason: they don't belong there) because the placement system is completely whack.

>

> Players sitting in spawn having a tantrum at their team, refusing to contribute and throwing the game for any reason at all. People not working together because they are all strangers in a TEAM match. The list goes on and on why solo only queue is not fun.

>

> I understand why we shouldn't have full premades queuing ranked, it would be completely unbalanced if that pool is mixed with solo queue. That's why we have ATs now. But if they allow duo queue in ranked, why the arbitrary decision to cut it off at plat 2? The leaderboard above that is completely RNG because 1 player isn't going to carry a team. There's no real indication of individual skill, luck plays just as much of a factor. Win trading happened, cheaters got to keep their titles.. the rewards for being top of the leaderboard are *meaningless* so why punish players for wanting to play competitive matches with a friend?

None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.

The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

This thread already exists twice and its been explained multiple times why your asserting that 1600 teams dont affect lower tier players is wrong

Please stop spamming the forums with your false assertions

/thread

> @"suffish.4150" said:

> No option for ‘there is no oneshot meta’.

>

> Sorry but I have to disagree. Spellbreaker, holo, druid, scourge, firebrand, weaver. All of these things are good for ranked and have absolutely no oneshot capability and are more focused on sustain damage. Moreover they are not going to GET oneshot either by anything in this meta because of how tanky they can be. Sure. If you run a comp like 2 rev 2 core guard mantra mes you will feel like it’s a oneshot meta, but is that comp meta at all? Of course not.

>

> And let’s be real here. Which kind of meta requires more skill to play in: a oneshot meta or a bunker tank meta? I think we all know the answer to this. I personally think the amount of damage in the meta right now is excellent- it combines the correct amount of sustain for most classes with a high ability to be punished for making mistakes/overcommitting to fights.

>

> I just don’t understand all these complaints about oneshot meta. The only times I see people getting oneshotted all game is when there is a huge skill difference between teams, which is to be expected.

This. The so called one shot meta is fabricated, only game I played vs a meme build we all died to the guy several times but we killed him more and won the game in the end. I've played probably 15 total since returning so that's at least 1 in 15 games

> @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > They need to implement a way to track people's rating on the forums.

> > >

> > > I don't care if its hidden or not but people below the 1600 threshold should NOT be allowed to vote. This topic doesn't concern them.

> >

> > I saw the other thread so now I am going to respond here as well.

> >

> > What makes you think a silver or gold player will never be matched against a plat duo?

> >

> > The voting is about 1600 and above but you don't have to be in a duo yourself to play against a duo, it's not unreasonable to think 1600 players might drop to gold for various reasons, and you don't have to be in plat to be matched up against a plat duo.

> >

> > Your question itself tends to a lack of understanding of how the mm works, ironically while you are criticising others for being supposedly ignorant.

>

> For one, the majority of players above 1600 rating actually hate solo que only. It has nothing to do with wanting to be carried or a lack of skill. The current Conquest system is just not fun to play solo, as you have very little impact on the course of a match unless you're running a side node monkey or high mobility/damage roamer. Bringing duo que back will result in an influx of higher tier players returning, which, not only makes the game more fun at higher tiers, but also reduces the chance lower tier players in gold and silver have of getting matched up against us.

>

> Not to mention that most of the players in 1600+ don't actually mind going solo vs. duos. It's fun and challenging, rewarding if you win, still rewarding if you lose.

>

> So, while I'm not saying it won't happen currently, bringing duo back for 1600+ will lessen the chance of silvers/golds getting matched up against plats. This would result in a higher amount of high tier players returning, create more interesting/fun/streamable games at higher tiers, and improve the healthiness of sPvP.

>

> But the point still stands, people who aren't directly affected by this (1600+) should not be allowed to vote. It simply doesn't concern them. I don't want a gold/silver/bronze player to have any impact on the game at higher tier levels, especially when it's demonstrated that they don't have the best understanding of the it in the first place. That's like asking a bronze player for balance advice rather than a pro league player.

Again, being less than 1600 does not mean you don't get matched against 1600 teams. These people have the right to vote on things that DO affect them. I've been paired against the number two player after coming out of placements before into gold, there's a thread about it somewhere here.

And your idea that duos of 1600 makes it somehow less likely to have matches against 1600s for silvers and bronzes is just not correct, it only increases the minimum number of 1600s on your team. Everything else is unchanged.

Look man I feel you on wanting to be able to play ranked with your friends but that's just not going to lead to balanced games.

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > I also hate the map selection screen being permanent. It's been on our list of future QoL changes for a while. I'm hoping once swiss gets in, we'll have more time for some things like this.

> >

> > Just delete it man, the managers probably won't even notice that your finger "accidentally" slipped onto the delete pvp_mapselection_window.class button because it won't be there any more, what could possibly go wrong? =)

>

> Later that day:

> None of us can play PvP! Why does Anet hate PvPers?!!??! :trollface:

But then they would be forced to prioritize it because its totally broken B)

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> They need to implement a way to track people's rating on the forums.

>

> I don't care if its hidden or not but people below the 1600 threshold should NOT be allowed to vote. This topic doesn't concern them.

I saw the other thread so now I am going to respond here as well.

What makes you think a silver or gold player will never be matched against a plat duo?

The voting is about 1600 and above but you don't have to be in a duo yourself to play against a duo, it's not unreasonable to think 1600 players might drop to gold for various reasons, and you don't have to be in plat to be matched up against a plat duo.

Your question itself tends to a lack of understanding of how the mm works, ironically while you are criticising others for being supposedly ignorant.

> @"Nash.3974" said:

> The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.

> To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?

> Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.

> I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?

> How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?

> What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?

> Explain please!!!

What makes you think a silver or gold player will never be matched against a plat duo?

The voting is about 1600 and above but you don't have to be in a duo yourself to play against a duo, it's not unreasonable to think 1600 players might drop to gold for various reasons, and you don't have to be in plat to be matched up against a plat duo.

Your question itself tends to a lack of understanding of how the mm works, ironically while you are criticising others for being supposedly ignorant.

I agree about de in higher levels of ranked but that's not where I was playing and it doesn't change the way the matches I was in were playing out, which is me having tons of kills and surviving tons of focus and my team still losing somehow.

It legit looks like throws to me, I can't explain it any other way.