saerni.2584
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Posts posted by saerni.2584
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If they make any change to SA it will not be enough for the people on the forums who complain.
Their goal isn’t balance so much as removal of thief as a viable profession. Not so much in that thieves wouldn’t become viable in other ways. Rather, that thief would be nerfed in ways that make it unrecognizable as a thief.
Anet might tweak a stealth duration. I doubt we would see a nerf to combo stealth fields. Which is the real source of stealth uptime.
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That fight with the vT holo was intense. :-)
Fun times.
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> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> does rune of sanc work with invigorating precision? seems like it would scale better.
It does not sadly, because if it did the scaling would be insane.
Right now, the best you can do with Runes of Sanc is a constant barrier of 500-750. Not much as far as numbers, but because it adds mitigation on top of the healing it really adds up. Assuming the average hit you take is 2500 then an extra 500 off is basically a 20% damage reduction as long as you keep attacking. Even if the average hit is 5k, 10% is not terrible on top of other bonuses.
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@"gnotshr.9136"
Well by that definition...I guess GW2 as a whole isn’t looking too good is it?
Heh.
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What are you complaining about?
The stealth on steal?
The life stealth effects?
The extra blinds?
The boonrip on stealth attacks?
The condi cleanse in stealth?
The regeneration and initiative in stealth?
Or are you just complaining because you got killed by a thief and imagine they were running SA?
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Still waiting on permanent AB pass. 2 week passes aren’t interesting to me and I’d like permanent access to this map.
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> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:
> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:
> > I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun. I've been playing a core D/P build with CS/DA/Trickery, and a mixture of Marauder and Valkyrie + Eagle runes.
> >
> > I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint, but those of you saying "thEiF dOEs NO daMaGE" are out of your minds. I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.
> >
> > 
> > 
> >
>
> The backstabs I can see happening, but the shadow shot damage is surprising haha. Makes me wonder what the other guy was running xD
Agreed...I don’t run any toughness so I sometimes take big hits and 15k is...rng perfect.
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> @"Dido.9148" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > Your biggest issue that pops out to me is a lack of fight presence.
> >
> > You rotate well enough but you don’t do any damage. Your enemies who should die to a plus one don’t take more than a little chip damage. When you should show up, spike the opponent for 5-10k and then move on. You shouldn’t take that many 1v1s but you should be able to stand up in a fight. That was missing for me here. Note, you don’t need to even finish them if you can push the opponent over the edge and let your teammate do the rest.
>
>
>
> > The other big issue to me is that you use BP a LOT. Which isn’t a bad thing always. But you use it with no enemies around and you don’t stack stealth beyond that initial BP-HS combo. So it’s a lot of initiative and you aren’t always using it effectively because BP is a lot of initiative for only one combo, especially when you aren’t under pressure so you have time/initiative to spend. If you use your stealth access efficiently it will help you to fight. But if you mess that up it will cut into your fight pressure and damage, which is where you were facing the most significant difficulties.
> >
>
> > Feel free to message me in game if you are on the NA servers. Happy to help in game where it is easier to give mechanical feedback.
>
>
> In terms of damage, am I doing my rotations wrong? or am I just engaging the wrong targets?
> I definitely will add you in-game. Thanks
>
It’s the timing I think. You do 4k ish on Heartseeker, so your damage isn’t terrible from a stat perspective. Although, you could potentially get more damage output. The thing is that you need to be able to pop in and apply your damage and then jump out.
Thief can hit like a wet noodle or like an unstoppable machine. But a lot depends on the timing of your strikes.
Part of that is the need to finish your autoattack rotation because the coefficient is stacking more on the end rather than the first few strikes.
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Your biggest issue that pops out to me is a lack of fight presence.
You rotate well enough but you don’t do any damage. Your enemies who should die to a plus one don’t take more than a little chip damage. When you should show up, spike the opponent for 5-10k and then move on. You shouldn’t take that many 1v1s but you should be able to stand up in a fight. That was missing for me here. Note, you don’t need to even finish them if you can push the opponent over the edge and let your teammate do the rest.
The other big issue to me is that you use BP a LOT. Which isn’t a bad thing always. But you use it with no enemies around and you don’t stack stealth beyond that initial BP-HS combo. So it’s a lot of initiative and you aren’t always using it effectively because BP is a lot of initiative for only one combo, especially when you aren’t under pressure so you have time/initiative to spend. If you use your stealth access efficiently it will help you to fight. But if you mess that up it will cut into your fight pressure and damage, which is where you were facing the most significant difficulties.
Feel free to message me in game if you are on the NA servers. Happy to help in game where it is easier to give mechanical feedback.
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> @"KrHome.1920" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > The excessive number of them in a few spots were removed after some people complained about necromancers gaining life force from them and staying in combat after applying a non-damage condi to an ambient without realizing it.
> The removal and these posts were just coincidence and not necessarily related.
>
>
Yeah...but all of them were removed in spots where the complaints were raised. It’s a simple explanation but the most plausible one I’ve been able to come to thinking about it.
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The excessive number of them in a few spots were removed after some people complained about necromancers gaining life force from them and staying in combat after applying a non-damage condi to an ambient without realizing it.
Of course, ambients were always targets for stealth or teleport abilities...but honestly not commonly enough to really warrant removal of them. It isn’t so hard so find other targets to teleport towards or immobile targets that let you trigger stealth.
I’m a bit sad because the creatures made the areas feel more alive and can’t have impacted server performance at a few deaths every so often. Most likely it was some attempt at removing free life force from necros who were much harder to kill if they just fought nearby to a few ambients. But I still killed plenty of necros...so I don’t think this was really needed...
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> @"Dawdler.8521" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > Don’t listen to bad advice about thief in the WvW forum.
> >
> > Come to the Thief Profession sub forum and get bad advice from the source :-p
> Where everyone will pat their backs in agreement that the thief is the worst duelist, the worst roamer, the worst mobile class and has the lowest damage of all the classes.
>
I should say, there are a few helpful people. Aikijinx posts frequently in his build threads and Babazhook and a couple of others always have some good build feedback (and experimental non-meta ideas).
But yeah...anyone saying thief can’t do damage or loses XYZ matchup in 1v1 is either mistaken or focusing on a specific meta build that will certainly lose a fight it isn’t designed to win (taking a high mobility +1 build into a duel with no kiting space for example).
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> @"YoRHa.4105" said:
> I am new player and played this game for 2 weeks~, and the only class i have serious issue dealing with is thief.
>
> This class have good burst both melee and range and also godlike mobility, survivability, i play on 200ping and if a thief jump on me i start the fight with 50% hp in few sec, burn my cds then i go back to spawn point if the thief wanted to kitten on me, i have very little chance of surviving.
>
> And it is the only class where sometime i cant even react to the burst and die very quickly.
>
> Sometime i just alt f4 after the game and refuse to click gw2 until some break.
Make a thief. Try to kill people. You’ll see pretty soon why they were doing the damage they did to you and how to fight them.
You can hit harder than the thief with more sustain. Just need to know when to use your skills.
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Don’t listen to bad advice about thief in the WvW forum.
Come to the Thief Profession sub forum and get bad advice from the source :-p
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> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:
> It does an auditory ding but doesn't ping location on minimap. I have used this many times. When you use it and no enemies are within its radius whether they are visible/stealthed, it will not do an auditory ding.
@"KeyOrion.9506" It does. As pointed out here. And how is responding directly to you “going off on a tangent?” It’s pretty much a direct refutation, based on actual experience with the mechanic. Your assertion of “I tested this so and it doesn’t” is either untrue or based on a minunderstanding on your part.
To clarify, the audio for detection plays even if the thief isn’t visible. If the auto-marked debuff is active then there are only a few spots where they can be hiding. It can help you figure out if the keep is clear or not (especially when it isn’t a fresh keep and won’t have the auto-marking effect active).
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> @"KeyOrion.9506" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > So you know where they are. Sniff to confirm they are there. Then toss a target painter and camp the spot to force them off and into the Marked section of the keep.
> >
> > Also, Marked is a significant debuff because it forces the thief to burn cooldowns. If anyone is chasing a thief around it also reduces the initiative the thief has to gain stealth.
> >
> > But none of this matters because spending 20 minutes hiding in a keep is usually a waste of time. If a Zerg can avoid being scouted to show up at a keep and then get ported inside that is a massive failure on the part of the defending team. Meanwhile that thief has to actively work to maintain stealth for an extended period on the off chance that the aforesaid Zerg will manage that, or even care enough to try. Most of the time that Zerg sneaking to the keep will be able to put down three or four catas and open it up pretty fast. That’s usually how keeps get flipped unless you are talking about a havoc group of five players stealth capping, which is entirely easy to defend against (and delay long enough for more defenders to show up).
>
> Sniff against a STEALTHED opponant. mmmhmmm... As for the teams doing a "mesmer/thief sweep"....according to the commanders, "who cares". When your team no longer cares, that's left up to the solo artists, and they get frustrated to all hell trying to run down an individual without teammate support. I will agree, any time that gets the "I don't care" attitude of sweeps should lose that location. Even if it's my own team, I tell my fellow mates, "you didn't care enough to sweep, this is the consequance."
It still dings even when the enemy is stealthed FYI.
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So you know where they are. Sniff to confirm they are there. Then toss a target painter and camp the spot to force them off and into the Marked section of the keep.
Also, Marked is a significant debuff because it forces the thief to burn cooldowns. If anyone is chasing a thief around it also reduces the initiative the thief has to gain stealth.
But none of this matters because spending 20 minutes hiding in a keep is usually a waste of time. If a Zerg can avoid being scouted to show up at a keep and then get ported inside that is a massive failure on the part of the defending team. Meanwhile that thief has to actively work to maintain stealth for an extended period on the off chance that the aforesaid Zerg will manage that, or even care enough to try. Most of the time that Zerg sneaking to the keep will be able to put down three or four catas and open it up pretty fast. That’s usually how keeps get flipped unless you are talking about a havoc group of five players stealth capping, which is entirely easy to defend against (and delay long enough for more defenders to show up).
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > @"reddie.5861" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Strider.7849" said:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Thief has more burst this isn't even debatable after the nerfs to ranger. There is still commander sniping builds in play.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hmm not sure about this..
> > > > > > > played thief for long time and ranger aswell (pretty much only 2 i play)
> > > > > > > ranger on more deffensive stats has far better burst then a thief.
> > > > > > > i mean people will say im crying but thief burst is so sad right now..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > mean while on my ranger who is using durability runes and some armor (dunno which but no zerk stats at all) is doing far better dmg wise.
> > > > > > > tbh i dont really mind the nerfs ill play thief till i quit but thief isnt as it used to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > they nerfed staff thief well nerfed not rly increased the ini use on staff 5 which was not really needed so that zerg build ur on about is not that good anymore u can do 2 vaults and ur out of ini. so thief is in same state as ranger useless and probably next nerf is inc again.
> > > > > > > cus thief is not useless in sPvP and since wvw takes alot of kitten from sPvP they probably get nerfed again for nothing rly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **I have a screenshot** of a thief dealing upward of 10k+ dmg between a backstab and a HS followed by around 8k+ more dmg soon after.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you mean 10k with a backstab + HS, or either backstab or HS? The former, sure, if youre low hp, possible. The latter, unless youre a glass and theyre playing a very bad build, is not possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > > In the screenshot I was using an experimental build, made for the sake of testing and I was using : **2.9k toughness = 4k armor**....why do thief players keep lying so blatantly? ..."thief burst is sad right now"....please stop it....there are dozens of videos out there proving you wrong
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah ok with 4k armour there is absolutely no way the thief got 10k+ damage from a single backstab without shenanigans. Im not even sure its possible *with* shenanigans. And no, there are dozens of videos showing that thief burst is indeed sad. [Here](
) we have a frontstab on a squishy thief. 2k. A backstab would do 4k. So how exactly do you think a thief wouldve backstabbed for over 10k on a 4k armour guy? With 4k armour youd take *half* the damage, so unless the thief somehow miraculously got a 400% damage boost from somewhere, Im gonna call BS.> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > I have clearly stated 10k dmg as a combination of a backstab and a Heartseeker while the target has 4k armor...**I was full HP**
> > > >
> > >
> > > It was many things, "clearly" it was not. But this is at least possible .... with shenanigans. Not in any realistic scenario, of course, in a realistic scenario youd take 2k from backstab and 1k from heartseeker. I assume that the Thief is playing something like DA/SA/CS (which is a *really* bad build since you dont even have trickery), he was at full hp, had pre-stacked might somehow, used assassins signet, and you had vuln or condis on you somehow. Otherwise, its still not possible.
> >
> > There’s a couple of important things here. The first strike is 6k. That’s pretty heavy for a thief using sPvP stats but I’d buy those numbers based on WvW stats and getting some significant vulnerability onto the target.
> >
>
> Its a lot for a WvW strike even on a squishy glass cannon. On a supposed 4k armour target, no way in hell you ever get 6k backstabs off.
>
> > The second strike is only for 2.8k, which is not that significant for HS (still high HP so the modifier is pretty low). The combo of an Air sigil and some life steal off food is what pushes this over 10k for the two skills. (Nearly 1k off the sigil is 10% of the damage).
> >
>
> Its actually a bit higher than a >50% hp Heartseeker does on a squishy target. Again, 4k armour, not a chance.
>
> > Now, with 18k HP, that pushes the ranger below 50% and the next Heartseeker hits a bit harder. The last HS is below 25% and hits the hardest.
> >
>
> Thats about right.
>
> > If I had to guess with the self-reported stats the thief is running a very one shot oriented build. Backstab, HS x3. Likely a very quick sequence because there is probably a time limit to how long the damage is that high (or the thief is running very glassy). On a lower toughness opponent they probably would have hit a 8k+ BS and a 4k+ base HS. Again that’s with WvW stats where base power can be much higher.
> >
>
> No, on a lower toughness target they would have hit a 5k, maybe a 6k if theyre pushing it, backstab. His damage is much higher than is possible without shenanigans. Because its not a realistic damage number.
>
> > This is why people should record their gameplay and then slow down the video so they can see everything that hits them. Recording software can passively run in the background so you just hit record when something interesting happened and you want to figure it out.
>
> I have a good guess as to why he didnt want to do that here.
As a squishy I get hit for upwards of 7k BS regularly.
Not a hack, really just normal damage on a build built for it.
Also, I disagree that thief can’t 1v1. I don’t know about what equal skill level is supposed to mean, exactly. But I can say that good players can fight on equal footing with good thieves, and lose.
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > @"reddie.5861" said:
> > > > > > @"Strider.7849" said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > - Thief has more burst this isn't even debatable after the nerfs to ranger. There is still commander sniping builds in play.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hmm not sure about this..
> > > > > played thief for long time and ranger aswell (pretty much only 2 i play)
> > > > > ranger on more deffensive stats has far better burst then a thief.
> > > > > i mean people will say im crying but thief burst is so sad right now..
> > > > >
> > > > > mean while on my ranger who is using durability runes and some armor (dunno which but no zerk stats at all) is doing far better dmg wise.
> > > > > tbh i dont really mind the nerfs ill play thief till i quit but thief isnt as it used to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > they nerfed staff thief well nerfed not rly increased the ini use on staff 5 which was not really needed so that zerg build ur on about is not that good anymore u can do 2 vaults and ur out of ini. so thief is in same state as ranger useless and probably next nerf is inc again.
> > > > > cus thief is not useless in sPvP and since wvw takes alot of kitten from sPvP they probably get nerfed again for nothing rly.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > **I have a screenshot** of a thief dealing upward of 10k+ dmg between a backstab and a HS followed by around 8k+ more dmg soon after.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Do you mean 10k with a backstab + HS, or either backstab or HS? The former, sure, if youre low hp, possible. The latter, unless youre a glass and theyre playing a very bad build, is not possible.
> > >
> > > > In the screenshot I was using an experimental build, made for the sake of testing and I was using : **2.9k toughness = 4k armor**....why do thief players keep lying so blatantly? ..."thief burst is sad right now"....please stop it....there are dozens of videos out there proving you wrong
> > >
> > > Yeah ok with 4k armour there is absolutely no way the thief got 10k+ damage from a single backstab without shenanigans. Im not even sure its possible *with* shenanigans. And no, there are dozens of videos showing that thief burst is indeed sad. [Here](
) we have a frontstab on a squishy thief. 2k. A backstab would do 4k. So how exactly do you think a thief wouldve backstabbed for over 10k on a 4k armour guy? With 4k armour youd take *half* the damage, so unless the thief somehow miraculously got a 400% damage boost from somewhere, Im gonna call BS.> >
> > 
> >
> > I have clearly stated 10k dmg as a combination of a backstab and a Heartseeker while the target has 4k armor...**I was full HP**
> >
>
> It was many things, "clearly" it was not. But this is at least possible .... with shenanigans. Not in any realistic scenario, of course, in a realistic scenario youd take 2k from backstab and 1k from heartseeker. I assume that the Thief is playing something like DA/SA/CS (which is a *really* bad build since you dont even have trickery), he was at full hp, had pre-stacked might somehow, used assassins signet, and you had vuln or condis on you somehow. Otherwise, its still not possible.
There’s a couple of important things here. The first strike is 6k. That’s pretty heavy for a thief using sPvP stats but I’d buy those numbers based on WvW stats and getting some significant vulnerability onto the target.
The second strike is only for 2.8k, which is not that significant for HS (still high HP so the modifier is pretty low). The combo of an Air sigil and some life steal off food is what pushes this over 10k for the two skills. (Nearly 1k off the sigil is 10% of the damage).
Now, with 18k HP, that pushes the ranger below 50% and the next Heartseeker hits a bit harder. The last HS is below 25% and hits the hardest.
If I had to guess with the self-reported stats the thief is running a very one shot oriented build. Backstab, HS x3. Likely a very quick sequence because there is probably a time limit to how long the damage is that high (or the thief is running very glassy). On a lower toughness opponent they probably would have hit a 8k+ BS and a 4k+ base HS. Again that’s with WvW stats where base power can be much higher.
This is why people should record their gameplay and then slow down the video so they can see everything that hits them. Recording software can passively run in the background so you just hit record when something interesting happened and you want to figure it out.
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Bunkers aren’t unkillable. That’s good.
Zerk can be killed quickly. Well that’s good.
I feel like people didn’t understand that there’s no functional difference between a zerk build that hits for 30k combo and one that hits for 20k. Both will one shot. But, that there is a big difference between a duelist build that hits for 20k versus 14k. Suddenly that duelist isn’t one shot killing nearly as often.
At the high end, a lot of damage is basically useless because HP pools don’t scale that much. So if you hit for 30k it really doesn’t matter getting nerfed to 20k if the average HP is 18k. You still kill them dead with the same skills.
At the low end, you start to see the difference. The point of the 33% nerf wasn’t to prevent ALL one shots. It was to make only glass builds one shot (not saying the patch succeeded either).
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> @"LetoII.3782" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > A nice summary.
> >
> > IMO, Anet should remake EBG from scratch and implement alliances simultaneously. That can come with rebalancing siege, rebalancing upgrade times, rebalancing NPCs, rebalancing rewards, etc.
>
> If they're going to tinker, why would you suggest they risk their top map first?
>
> Seems to me leaving ebg entirely alone until the tinkerer has proven capable on a lesser map would be prudent.
>
> Bear in mind our current team took a functional ballista #3 and "improved" it into an arcing shot that only successfully hits it's target in around 20% of placements.. I'd rather that guy stick to DBL or EoTM.
>
>
I’m not suggesting that the map isn’t decent. I’d suggest that the map could use some visual upgrades.
This could also include updates to the map design. Personally, SM should be a fortress that doesn’t upgrade but also doesn’t repair itself. A map update is an opportunity to make those major balance changes.
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I’ve literally never seen a significant difference fighting a necro who killed an ambient. Is any necro actually relying on this as a tactic to win fights?
And, really? Keeping you in combat? A single auto attack, if you happened to hit one with a non-damage condi/cc, is too much?
What about the random Skritt NPCs in Alpine or the Centaurs? What about the random boars and deer? Should we remove the moas too?
I think there are more important things the devs could be doing.
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> @"KrHome.1920" said:
> > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > I’ve seen like two or three decent ranger trap builds in the last few months.
> >
> > Higher immobilize uptime and solid condi application.
> >
> > But 90% of the rangers/soulbeasts (who runs Druid these days?) are some kind of ranged super spike or melee GS sustain.
> >
> > I don’t mind rangers. As a thief, I can beat most rangers. They can spike high damage and so can I. Why would I complain if one outplayed me? My build isn’t fair to them any more than their build is unfair to me.
> In EU smallscale druid is played as unkillable bunker to spam immobilize and it's cancer.
>
> It's bit like conquest thief: can always escape (unless chased by at least 2 thieves for 2 minutes), has to be ignored, because it is the most durable build in its group, but has a huge impact on the fight, even though it is not damage. It also can deny stomps with an interrupt and stealth combo and then rez.
>
> Rifle2 spamming deadeyes with condi duration gear and some cover condis can fulfill the same role in a smallscale group. Good luck when you are in a smallscale fight and such a build focusses you.
Yeah the Druid comment was more about how uncommon they are. Which is somewhat surprising given how good as a condi-support spec they can be. The other condi variants are more aggressive and tend to be killable.
I fought one condi Druid who basically had enough stealth/sustain to be unkillable as long as he retreated. But he did lack damage so he couldn’t kill me either. It was a pretty fair trade off in that sense.
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> @"Kovu.7560" said:
> Thread: "The worst mobility spec on Thief has less mobility than rangers who somewhat invest in it."
> Me: "Well, yes."
> This seems like a troll thread. Nobody is actually that... erm... uninformed/out of touch.
>
> Also, ranger traps are useless in wvw and only somewhat decent in low-ranked pvp. They haven't been worth the utility slots in half a decade. There's a reason people kitten about longbow/greatsword and not shortbow or... whatever else on ranger is supposed to use for condition damage.
>
> ~ Kovu
I’ve seen like two or three decent ranger trap builds in the last few months.
Higher immobilize uptime and solid condi application.
But 90% of the rangers/soulbeasts (who runs Druid these days?) are some kind of ranged super spike or melee GS sustain.
I don’t mind rangers. As a thief, I can beat most rangers. They can spike high damage and so can I. Why would I complain if one outplayed me? My build isn’t fair to them any more than their build is unfair to me.
Tag Up - Question
in World vs. World
Posted
Tags let people see activity. So I’m more of a “tags are better than no tag.”
That’s of course a basic thing. If you want to learn how to be a good commander and tag up regularly...that’s where you can have some fun.
Tag up for an hour or so once a week. Get a discord to help with coordinating. Stay positive and keep your next target in mind so you can rotate if the enemy responds to your 7 man with 30.