PSA: These are not Pre-HoT Damage Numbers. Damage is significantly lower than Pre-Hot

[Quadox.7834]

And there were other powercrept things in early core that we couldn't even dream of now, such as vigor 100% endurance regen, quickness 100% attack speed, basi venom/frostbow being immune to stunbreaks. But some things are powercrept (and these are important), such as visual noise, and traits in general (mainly with the 2015 rework).

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

>

> Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

>

> No one is willing to challenge me on this.

>

> Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

 

I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> >

> > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> >

> > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> >

> > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

>

> I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

 

Alright, post your 2020 videos of your Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in 2012-2015 GW2.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > >

> > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > >

> > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > >

> > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> >

> > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

>

> Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

 

Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

 

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > > >

> > > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > > >

> > > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > > >

> > > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> > >

> > > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

> >

> > Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

>

> Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

>

>

 

This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos.

 

Literally everyone's damage, across the board, is lower than it was in 2012-2015. Across literally all of the professions.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> You must have not met tiger and pigeon

 

Ranger pet damage completely supports op. Tiger and bird damage has seen little to no changes since the early vanilla days and now that current damage for most weapon skills is significantly lower than any other point in this game's history, pet damage seems really strong only because it hasn't changed.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > > > >

> > > > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> > > >

> > > > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

> > >

> > > Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

> >

> > Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

> >

> >

>

> This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos.

 

No it doesn’t apply to anything but thief’s as you only posted 2 thief builds that aren’t 1-1 except for the fact that they are popular. This is a thief meta issue not a pvp issue

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > You must have not met tiger and pigeon

>

> Ranger pet damage completely supports op. Tiger and bird damage has seen little to no changes since the early vanilla days and now that current damage for most weapon skills is significantly lower than any other point in this game's history, pet damage seems really strong only because it hasn't changed.

 

Bird was core, Tiger was introduced in Heart of Thorns. So Tiger is a genuine example of potential legitimate power creep. Bird damage, however, is not. Bird damage is just bird damage which seems massive in an environment where everyone is doing significantly less damage than was bird was designed to compete with.

 

I hate to be a pet peeve but I emphasize being as accurate as possible. So while I reject your tiger example, if damage numbers were truly so low in 2012-2015 GW2 why does unchanged bird feel so explosively lethal compared to everything else? The answer is because Bird was designed to compete with significantly higher DPS numbers from everyone, which no one can compare with post balance patch.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> > > > >

> > > > > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

> > > >

> > > > Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

> > >

> > > Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos.

>

> No it doesn’t apply to anything but thief’s as you only posted 2 thief builds that aren’t 1-1 except for the fact that they are popular. This is a thief meta issue not a pvp issue

 

You are more than welcome to go on warrior and record yourself doing a 100 blades burst and comparing it against a 2012-2015 hundred blades burst on the same stat set and proving me wrong. There are plenty of Berserker's Amulet warrior PvP videos to compare yourself with.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

> > > > >

> > > > > Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

> > > >

> > > > Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos.

> >

> > No it doesn’t apply to anything but thief’s as you only posted 2 thief builds that aren’t 1-1 except for the fact that they are popular. This is a thief meta issue not a pvp issue

>

> You are more than welcome to go on warrior and record yourself doing a 100 blades burst and comparing it against a 2012-2015 hundred blades burst on the same stat set and proving me wrong. There are plenty of Berserker's Amulet warrior PvP videos to compare yourself with.

 

Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2

> > > > >

> > > > > Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos.

> > >

> > > No it doesn’t apply to anything but thief’s as you only posted 2 thief builds that aren’t 1-1 except for the fact that they are popular. This is a thief meta issue not a pvp issue

> >

> > You are more than welcome to go on warrior and record yourself doing a 100 blades burst and comparing it against a 2012-2015 hundred blades burst on the same stat set and proving me wrong. There are plenty of Berserker's Amulet warrior PvP videos to compare yourself with.

>

> Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?

 

This might be a hard concept for you

 

But you can post your own build of any other class, and compare it's damage output compared to pre-heart of thorns variants of the build running the same stats, and then actually draw a conclusion on what damage numbers are based on your ability to interpret data and numbers.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?

 

He means "check warrior damage now and check warrior damage in core, then compare those two"

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?

>

> He means "check warrior damage now and check warrior damage in core, then compare those two"

 

I already checked the thief damage of similar builds and got the exact same and sometimes higher though so why would i

[Tayga.3192]

All CC are 0.01

 

Backstab 2013: 2.4 (flanking)

Backstab 2020: 1.8 (flanking)

 

Hundred Blades 2014: 4.2 / 1.1

Hundred Blades 2020: 2.8 / 0.8

 

Phantasmal Berserker 2015: 2.53

Phantasmal Berserker 2020: 1.0 (0.4+0.6)

 

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> Backstab in 2013: 2.4 coefficient

> Backstab in 2020: 1.8 coefficient

 

Though many modifiers now are vastly superior

Which now just imo shows anet is balancing properly if the damage is the same on average builds

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > Backstab in 2013: 2.4 coefficient

> > Backstab in 2020: 1.8 coefficient

>

> Though many modifiers now are vastly superior

 

Lead Attacks is only in combat,

Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,

I don't even count other DA nerfs.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?

> >

> > He means "check warrior damage now and check warrior damage in core, then compare those two"

>

> I already checked the thief damage of similar builds and got the exact same and sometimes higher though so why would i

 

Alright post it. I'm waaaaaaaiiiiting.

 


 

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > Backstab in 2013: 2.4 coefficient

> > > Backstab in 2020: 1.8 coefficient

> >

> > Though many modifiers now are vastly superior

>

> Lead Attacks is only in combat,

> Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,

> I don't even count other DA nerfs.

 

U seem to forget that elite specs exist also they tweak some skills yes ex. Swindlers equilibrium now gives power which helps a lot. But not counting De just look at daredevil +5% per dodge which is up to 15% which is really good and again look at bounding dodger another 15% that’s 30% alone from taking daredevil which alone brings the coefficient near what you mentioned also damage per unique condition is nothing to laugh about in DA and for one you have more condition and a completely superior new skill - even the odds which adds 5% more and extra power.

So sry no matter which way you look at it modifiers are vastly superior bringing damage to actually great levels in addition to many new skills which are actually great like basically everything in SA rn

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > > Backstab in 2013: 2.4 coefficient

> > > > Backstab in 2020: 1.8 coefficient

> > >

> > > Though many modifiers now are vastly superior

> >

> > Lead Attacks is only in combat,

> > Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,

> > I don't even count other DA nerfs.

>

> U seem to forget that elite specs exist also they tweak some skills yes ex. Swindlers equilibrium now gives power which helps a lot. But not counting De just look at daredevil +5% per dodge which is up to 15% which is really good and again look at bounding dodger another 15% that’s 30% alone from taking daredevil which alone brings the coefficient near what you mentioned also damage per unique condition is nothing to laugh about in DA and for one you have more condition and a completely superior new skill - even the odds which adds 5% more and extra power.

> So sry no matter which way you look at it modifiers are vastly superior bringing damage to actually great levels in addition to many new skills which are actually great like basically everything in SA rn

 

Yes, go ahead and berzerker amulet bounding dodger into backstab oh wait, you're (just like I said) doing less damage than Vanilla Guild Wars 2. Just like how Bull's Rush with Peak Performance into Arcing Slice Into 100 Blades is less damage than just Bull's Rushing into 100 Blades back in Pre-HoT (Or Earth Shaker into Hundred Blades which is what I used to use back then).

[Chaith.8256]

Crowd control uptime has doubled, since vanilla game now has Firebrand's push, yoink, pull combo, Revenant's Jade Winds & Chaotic Release, dedicted Ele CC spam builds with a reduced Tornado CD, Ranger's Greatsword gained perfect control over #4's knockback.

 

Damage and sustain is a bit lower than vanilla now, yeah. A lot of absolutely monster traits were brought down, as well as Sentinel's, Cleric's, Settler's, Mercenary's amulets, durability runes.

 

Basically, damage is down but combat is as lethal as/than ever.

[Ovark.2514]

Before HoT there was a large patch that buffed damage across the board. Was it part of the April 2014 feature pack? If so, this might BE a return to core numbers since the 7-8k backstabs were after the patch. If not, then OP is correct.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > > > Backstab in 2013: 2.4 coefficient

> > > > > Backstab in 2020: 1.8 coefficient

> > > >

> > > > Though many modifiers now are vastly superior

> > >

> > > Lead Attacks is only in combat,

> > > Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,

> > > I don't even count other DA nerfs.

> >

> > U seem to forget that elite specs exist also they tweak some skills yes ex. Swindlers equilibrium now gives power which helps a lot. But not counting De just look at daredevil +5% per dodge which is up to 15% which is really good and again look at bounding dodger another 15% that’s 30% alone from taking daredevil which alone brings the coefficient near what you mentioned also damage per unique condition is nothing to laugh about in DA and for one you have more condition and a completely superior new skill - even the odds which adds 5% more and extra power.

> > So sry no matter which way you look at it modifiers are vastly superior bringing damage to actually great levels in addition to many new skills which are actually great like basically everything in SA rn

>

> Yes, go ahead and berzerker amulet bounding dodger into backstab oh wait, you're (just like I said) doing less damage than Vanilla Guild Wars 2. Just like how Bull's Rush with Peak Performance into Arcing Slice Into 100 Blades is less damage than just Bull's Rushing into 100 Blades back in Pre-HoT (Or Earth Shaker into Hundred Blades which is what I used to use back then).

 

Ok I just tested it out on the same build and guess what- ON A LIGHT GOLEM WHERE U GOT 7K, guess what??? I GOT 9K ???

This thread is so misinformed except a few post likes chaithe’s which where even when we consider the much lower damage “meta builds” you refer to, guess what even then the combat is just as deadly which speaks volumes about how good elite specializations are

 

[mortrialus.3062]

Seriously? Some stupid ass moderator tossed this in the thief subforum? What in the ever loving FUCK is the matter with you? My point stands across literally ALL builds. I can post Beserker pre-hot warriors getting 20k hundred blades on targets while current warriors will struggle to do half as much. I can post mesmers getting 7k Mirror blades. THAT's what this thread is about. This is not a thief thread, this is about literally EVERY profession in SPVP. EVERYONE is doing less damage than what they were doing in Core GW2 SPvP.

[apharma.3741]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > At the end of the day, after all these replies, has anyone ACTUALLY provided video evidence of equivalently equipped MegaBalance builds doing **more** damage than their Pre-Heart of Thorns counter parts? Like seriously folks, if you've got it bring it. It should be child's play. Finding modern day Berserker's stats thief and 2014 Berserker's stats thief was EASY. Heck I checked Guardian and warrior before I even started talking about how we're in a lower damage meta than Pre-Hot.

> > >

> > > Like it should be trivially easy, "oh here's 2020 core zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior and it's doing WAY more damage than 2012 zerker ranger/guardian/necro/mesmer/warrior!" reapply to whatever class you see fit.

> > >

> > > No one is willing to challenge me on this.

> > >

> > > Damage is lower post-megabalance than it has ever been. Period. This isn't "a return to form."

> >

> > "PSA: These are not Pre-HoT Damage Numbers. Damage is significantly lower than Pre-Hot"

> >

> > Actually all anyone has to do is prove to you damage is not "significantly lower than Pre-HoT" so it seems to me quite easy to do by simply looking up skill coefficients and adding in damage mods. I might do that tomorrow evening but for now I have sleep.

> >

> > For argument's sake I will say significant is 25% less damage in total, that sound fair?

>

> Considering I've already shown historically thieves did 70-100% more damage on their major damage skills than they do now, it's going to take more than just picking out one CC that somehow escaped getting tweaked at all like Shadow Shot. We're looking at skills that actually matter like Burning Rush on Eles, Arcing Slice on Warriors, Hundred Blades on Warrior, Pistol Whip on Thieves, Mind Wrack on Elementalists, Lich Form autos on necromancer.

>

 

So you want to cherry pick skills eh like some other forum user? Sorry but if you say we are doing significantly less damage you have to take the whole build into account, if only 1/4 of the build saw a 25% damage decrease but a lot of the extra damage mods are there then chances are you're doing the same damage across the board.

 

A build is not just 1 skill, you know that so don't make misguided statements like this or you shall fall upon your shadow.

[Ghostof Luzifer.6159]

Overall you have more dmg oppotunity in the game because of elite spec mechanics, resulting in more dmg. More buttons to press --> more dmg and survivability. Concider spellbreaker refreshing f1 with fc, slb gettting 3 new dmg abilities when merged, weaver can attune faster, fb can spam his tomes, mirage can still fck you up with condi cc bomb etc etc. thief might be on the low side dmg wise, however his mobility is still much higher than it was in core. If you look at the game as a whole the builds are still much more stacked than they were in core.