Brutal Shot issue. Flip the order of the attack and the dodge and lower the cast time.

[Smoosh.2718]

Please make this skill evade then attack rather than attack then evade. This skill in its current state can not be used as an evasive reactionary skill unless you are facing a slug as your opponent.

 

1/2s cast time can not be justified for an evade skill.

 

 

Skill in question:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brutal_Shot

[Antipode.7830]

I was just thinking the other day that it feels terrible. Evade then fire would absolutely be better.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think the meant it as move of a gap widener and less an evade, but I agree. Evade then fire.

[Sobx.1758]

Fire then evade is fine, but the cast time is a bit long for an evading skill.

[Antipode.7830]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Fire then evade is fine, but the cast time is a bit long for an evading skill.

 

I dunno. Thief and ranger have similar skills on shortbow 3, with half the cast time doing both at once. Even halving the cast, needing to do one then the other might still cause the skill to feel off.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

[Smoosh.2718]

The other skill i wouldnt mind seeing a small change to is 'Rifle Butt'

have a small dash involved towards the target then strike with the knockback.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle_Butt

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> The other skill i wouldnt mind seeing a small change to is 'Rifle Butt'

> have a small dash involved towards the target then strike with the knockback.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle_Butt

 

Having a mini bull's charge as a rifle skill doesn't seem to fit the weapon theme for me, so I disagree. :p

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > The other skill i wouldnt mind seeing a small change to is 'Rifle Butt'

> > have a small dash involved towards the target then strike with the knockback.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle_Butt

>

> Having a mini bull's charge as a rifle skill doesn't seem to fit the weapon theme for me, so I disagree. :p

 

I think its more to make it easier to hit with. I think they need to make it a point blank aoe rather than the forward facing attack that it is. Right now it is really easy to move out of the range of, or simply walk into the warrior to avoid it.

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > > The other skill i wouldnt mind seeing a small change to is 'Rifle Butt'

> > > have a small dash involved towards the target then strike with the knockback.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle_Butt

> >

> > Having a mini bull's charge as a rifle skill doesn't seem to fit the weapon theme for me, so I disagree. :p

>

> I think its more to make it easier to hit with. I think they need to make it a point blank aoe rather than the forward facing attack that it is. Right now it is really easy to move out of the range of, or simply walk into the warrior to avoid it.

 

Aye that is the reason. Would also give the skill an impact to it, the appearance of your character putting their back into the Rifle Butt.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > > > The other skill i wouldnt mind seeing a small change to is 'Rifle Butt'

> > > > have a small dash involved towards the target then strike with the knockback.

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle_Butt

> > >

> > > Having a mini bull's charge as a rifle skill doesn't seem to fit the weapon theme for me, so I disagree. :p

> >

> > I think its more to make it easier to hit with. I think they need to make it a point blank aoe rather than the forward facing attack that it is. Right now it is really easy to move out of the range of, or simply walk into the warrior to avoid it.

>

> Aye that is the reason. Would also give the skill an impact to it, the appearance of your character putting their back into the Rifle Butt.

 

Any forward lunge should be small though, like 240 or 320.

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

>

> Any forward lunge should be small though, like 240 or 320.

 

Simular to Shield Bash or Headbutt, aye.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> >

> > Any forward lunge should be small though, like 240 or 320.

>

> Simular to Shield Bash or Headbutt, aye.

 

Done. Make it so @"ArenaNet Team.4819"

[cryorion.9532]

Yes, please. Rifle feels lackluster outside of Gunflame/Volley.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

 

Maybe it is just me, but that hop back from the shortbow would look ridiculous on a bulky heavily armored warrior...

On thief and ranger, it looks fine and aesthetically fitting. They are nimble fighter professions, agility is their forte. Warrior, not so much. Their animations look more "brute", not like they are dancing around the battlefield.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

>

> Maybe it is just me, but that hop back from the shortbow would look ridiculous on a bulky heavily armored warrior...

> On thief and ranger, it looks fine and aesthetically fitting. They are nimble fighter professions, agility is their forte. Warrior, not so much. Their animations look more "brute", not like they are dancing around the battlefield.

 

Still, the evade needs to happen first. Besides warriors leap back and forth all over the place. Plate mail btw was made to evenly distribute the weight, and was generally quite mobile without sacrificing agility.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

> >

> > Maybe it is just me, but that hop back from the shortbow would look ridiculous on a bulky heavily armored warrior...

> > On thief and ranger, it looks fine and aesthetically fitting. They are nimble fighter professions, agility is their forte. Warrior, not so much. Their animations look more "brute", not like they are dancing around the battlefield.

>

> Still, the evade needs to happen first.

 

Nah, it doesn't. :D

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

> > >

> > > Maybe it is just me, but that hop back from the shortbow would look ridiculous on a bulky heavily armored warrior...

> > > On thief and ranger, it looks fine and aesthetically fitting. They are nimble fighter professions, agility is their forte. Warrior, not so much. Their animations look more "brute", not like they are dancing around the battlefield.

> >

> > Still, the evade needs to happen first.

>

> Nah, it doesn't. :D

 

Your opinion, not others. :+1:

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > I think the animation is the real sticking point. That added a backwards dodge roll rather than just the hop back that the Shortbows have. They could have just copied that animation rather than cobbling together what is there. @"Sobx.1758" is right in that if the cast time were shorter that this would be a moot point, but the distinction on whether the evade should happen before, during, or after the attack can still be made. During or after the attack functions better and has a better flow.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it is just me, but that hop back from the shortbow would look ridiculous on a bulky heavily armored warrior...

> > > > On thief and ranger, it looks fine and aesthetically fitting. They are nimble fighter professions, agility is their forte. Warrior, not so much. Their animations look more "brute", not like they are dancing around the battlefield.

> > >

> > > Still, the evade needs to happen first.

> >

> > Nah, it doesn't. :D

>

> Your opinion, not others. :+1:

 

True. ;)

[Smoosh.2718]

One issue to note with shoot first then dodge, is that if the target walks into you the shot will then fail to go off putting the skill on cool down. Dodge first then shoot will fix this issue.

[Sobx.1758]

...or don't let your opponent walk into you when you're playing rifle? ;p

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> ...or don't let your opponent walk into you when you're playing rifle? ;p

 

Gotta hit with rifle butt at some point.

[Sobx.1758]

So what's the problem here?

[Smoosh.2718]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> So what's the problem here?

 

The issue is that we have a skill that is A clunky to use, and B will also go on cooldown without doing anything due to someone walking through you.

 

'...or don't let your opponent walk into you when you're playing rifle? ;p' Is not an excuse for an issue that needs a fix. Dodge then shoot will fix this issue, and the dash + Rifle Butt will also fix this skills issue of going on cool down without actually being used.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> ...or don't let your opponent walk into you when you're playing rifle? ;p

 

The skill's intended purpose is to create a gap when someone *does* close in on you. You are playing a game where there are 1200 range shadowsteps and myriad other mobility skills, of course it's going to happen.

 

So, when yourself in that situation, you suddenly realise that the skill doesn't even work if your opponent LoS you by walking to the side or behind you, yet it still goes on full cooldown. Or they can very easily interrupt you. It's an escape move, it's supposed to have some degree of reliability.