[PvP] Warrior Class Fantasy

[Inguz.6493]

When I think of a warrior in a fantasy setting I either think of someone who can punch **anyone** into a K.O. given that the warrior is within melee range, or a stalwart defender capable of taking inhuman levels of beatings.

 

Right now in PvP, however, warriors feel to me more like the rogue archetype in heavy armor. The playstyle is agile with lots of movement abilities, and when in melee range has to chain CC, dodge and evasion in order to not die. This high skill playstyle is rewarding once you get better at it, but it feels to me as a poor representation of the warrior class fantasy. I've seen complaints that seem to represent similar ideas without being too articulated on what the issue is at its core.

 

Nevertheless, I would like to invite everyone to share their ideas on warrior class fantasy versus in-game playstyle. My opinion is that I'm a bit 50/50 on the whole playstyle, in a way it is fun and very rewarding when you play it right, but it never quite satisfies that class fantasy of being someone that can take a bit of a beating and that everyone should be afraid to be in melee range of.

[RabbitUp.8294]

You get to live that fantasy for a few seconds when you use Rampage.

 

Honestly, I prefer warrior as the "normal guy/gal" instead of an unstoppable juggernaut. What you are describing feels more like the fantasy of Berzerker in particular and I agree that that elite spec could do a better job delivering on that fantasy. Hitting Zerk Mode should be an "oh sh!t" moment for the opponent, a kite-or-die situation, but with the toughness penalty of Zerk Mode, it's more like kite-or-die for the warrior themselves.

 

But fantasy-fulfilment aside, the last line reads like a contradiction, someone who can both take a beating and is also a huge threat sounds like a balancing nightmare. I also don't feel like warrior should be limited to melee range, a warrior is a soldier and soldiers always use the most effective techniques available to them. Historically that meant spears over swords for better reach, bows to wear the opposing army down , then later guns and artillery. The melee-only fantasy seems much closer to guardian who are the noble paladins, knights in shining armour who always fight with honour. And even then DH subverts that trope.

[Inguz.6493]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> You get to live that fantasy for a few seconds when you use Rampage.

>

> Honestly, I prefer warrior as the "normal guy/gal" instead of an unstoppable juggernaut. What you are describing feels more like the fantasy of Berzerker in particular and I agree that that elite spec could do a better job delivering on that fantasy. Hitting Zerk Mode should be an "oh kitten" moment for the opponent, a kite-or-die situation, but with the toughness penalty of Zerk Mode, it's more like kite-or-die for the warrior themselves.

>

> But fantasy-fulfilment aside, the last line reads like a contradiction, someone who can both take a beating and is also a huge threat sounds like a balancing nightmare. I also don't feel like warrior should be limited to melee range, a warrior is a soldier and soldiers always use the most effective techniques available to them. Historically that meant spears over swords for better reach, bows to wear the opposing army down , then later guns and artillery. The melee-only fantasy seems much closer to guardian who are the noble paladins, knights in shining armour who always fight with honour. And even then DH subverts that trope.

 

Constant Rampage would be OP, obviously, but yes it is in line with what I described. I don't think it would be a balancing nightmare if _some_ of these evasive things PvP warrior has going would be reduced or removed in favor of resilience, I wrote **a bit** of a beating, not a beating. Berserker fails to do anything against someone kiting unless using CC, people just move out of the way and the warrior can't do much about it.

 

I find your take on the class fantasy interesting, too. Would be fun to see rifle or bow be competitive as off-weapon!

[Thornwolf.9721]

Honestly When I think of a warrior I think of someone who has more skill than his opponent as he has to deal with magic and monsters day in and day out. I also think about the race and how it would 100% effect a warriors approach and effectiveness in combat.. (A norn warrior would be stronger physically than a human, and a human would rely on their gods while char rely on their guns. Asurans would rely on augmentations and sylvari.... well they'd rely on the pale tree or some such thing.)

 

The norn warrior specifically as I only care about the norn, would be someone who takes their beast form in combat to get the most out of their might. But as a class goes I honestly think of someone....

 

Who shakes the earth when they slam their feet, who use runes to augment their fighting prowess and someone who has magic about them but not in them. Like enchanted items and blessings from their respective places. I think of someone who can literally pick up other people and slam them around, go ham and really rip into someone. I think of a being who has heightened senses from all their battles and are much more of a bruiser, and much more capable to win the day and someone who has a tool in their kit for any specific problem. I think of a guy or gal who could slug you and send you flying because of their size and might, I think of Conan the barbarian or Beowulf. I think of Ragnar, or heck I think of Thor, odin and any other norse character. I also think of the warhammer orcs, the norscans and even some of the empire... I think of someone who is unmovable... and someone who could be unstoppable.

 

I think BDO's Guardian/berserker got warrior the best. I also think God of wars kratos is a good example (The new game) of what I imagine a fantasy warrior of the highest caliber would be. I think of more aggressive and physically powerful/imposing beings and I feel like guild wars 2 has not really done the best they could in showcasing it, bits there just a bit.

[Edge.8724]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> You get to live that fantasy for a few seconds when you use Rampage.

>

> Honestly, I prefer warrior as the "normal guy/gal" instead of an unstoppable juggernaut. What you are describing feels more like the fantasy of Berzerker in particular and I agree that that elite spec could do a better job delivering on that fantasy. Hitting Zerk Mode should be an "oh kitten" moment for the opponent, a kite-or-die situation, but with the toughness penalty of Zerk Mode, it's more like kite-or-die for the warrior themselves.

>

> But fantasy-fulfilment aside, the last line reads like a contradiction, someone who can both take a beating and is also a huge threat sounds like a balancing nightmare. I also don't feel like warrior should be limited to melee range, a warrior is a soldier and soldiers always use the most effective techniques available to them. Historically that meant spears over swords for better reach, bows to wear the opposing army down , then later guns and artillery. The melee-only fantasy seems much closer to guardian who are the noble paladins, knights in shining armour who always fight with honour. And even then DH subverts that trope.

 

You nailed it.

[ASP.8093]

I mean, what if the class fantasy is more like "Dark Souls guy?"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ASP.8093" said:

> I mean, what if the class fantasy is more like "Dark Souls guy?"

 

Umbasa…

 

Also, people in this community would sh!t bricks over some of the damage levels and cheese in that series lol.

[Strider.7849]

Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

 

I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

>

> I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

 

Well rats also don't kneel for Kill Shot. Smaller animations are harder to discern.

[Strider.7849]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

> >

> > I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

>

> Well rats also don't kneel for Kill Shot. Smaller animations are harder to discern.

 

Yeah and their eviscerate looks like a dodge. I think I'll keep it as a revenant. The hard thing for me is I really like greatsword on it. I'm pretty good with warrior (pvpwise) as it's not vastly different from soulbeast. I just noticed though that Norn kind of handicaps it when warrior is all about timing and landing those bursts. In group fights even enemies who are oblivious to everything else around them, they'll actively dodge some F1 bursts like eviscerate in the middle of a light show group fight. Lol.

 

Do you have a max sized Norn warrior male? If so and played it for a long time did you feel that choosing it gimps it in the long run?

[Yasai.3549]

Warriors in Gw2 are more akin to "Arms masters" than "Barbarians"

A good Warrior will use their two weapon sets very masterfully in combination with their utilities to dominate their opponent.

 

Berserker is supposed to be the "OOGA BOOGA ME SMASH" Elite spec but even so, the core of Warrior is still to outmaneuver the opponent through proper and full usage of their entire kit.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

> > >

> > > I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

> >

> > Well rats also don't kneel for Kill Shot. Smaller animations are harder to discern.

>

> Yeah and their eviscerate looks like a dodge. I think I'll keep it as a revenant. The hard thing for me is I really like greatsword on it. I'm pretty good with warrior (pvpwise) as it's not vastly different from soulbeast. I just noticed though that Norn kind of handicaps it when warrior is all about timing and landing those bursts. In group fights even enemies who are oblivious to everything else around them, they'll actively dodge some F1 bursts like eviscerate in the middle of a light show group fight. Lol.

>

> Do you have a max sized Norn warrior male? If so and played it for a long time did you feel that choosing it gimps it in the long run?

 

I have a few female norn. But I've seen the big guys. Even running on them feels slow. Asura have also always felt faster even though they aren't.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

> >

> > I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

>

> Well rats also don't kneel for Kill Shot. Smaller animations are harder to discern.

 

Well thing is a decent enough player likely has standard models anyway making everyone a human male in WvW and PvP.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > Does anyone else find that a max sized male Norn warrior has a disadvantage over the other races? I feel like it's a combination of the size and the animations in PvP that make it easier to dodge critical skills for the enemy as opposed to say playing on a human (or even Norn female for that matter).

> > >

> > > I really like some of the heavy armor looks for Norn male warriors but I keep debating in my head whether it would be a bad choice for PvP situations the long run. I posted this here because I don't want to create a new thread over this.

> >

> > Well rats also don't kneel for Kill Shot. Smaller animations are harder to discern.

>

> Well thing is a decent enough player likely has standard models anyway making everyone a human male in WvW and PvP.

>

 

But the shinnies?!?!

[DinesenDK.5067]

Survivability mixed with a midlevel sustain, 2-3 hard hitters for the final blow is my War fantasy (A Sandor Clegane(GoT) sort of type as I see it.) - Currently War got none of the 3, with the way it was gutted by the rewamp.