UNOwen.7132 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > There is still way too much theorycrafting to do, lol. If the build works now, it wouldve worked all the way from HoT onwards. The concept never changed. Yet, it was never used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > If the build works now, it wouldve worked all the way from HoT onwards. The concept never changed. Yet, it was never used. Nah big patch changed a lot of things, but yeah even I (not thief main btw) know you need at least 1 stunbreak. I still think bandit's defense is okayish and usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > What other people have to do with me ? > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. Thats why i must stunmlock them . I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > If the build works now, it wouldve worked all the way from HoT onwards. The concept never changed. Yet, it was never used. > > Nah big patch changed a lot of things, but yeah even I (not thief main btw) know you need at least 1 stunbreak. > > I still think bandit's defense is okayish and usable. I mean it changed a lot, but it didnt change the reasons why Fist Flurry is bad (if a single strike misses, you dont get a followup. And even when you do, since Pulmonary Impact does like 200 damage now, its just pathetic), nor why Impairing Daggers is bad. Bandits Defense is *ok*. Just, less good than other skills you could use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up While waiting for my cc to come up > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block and if i do i can see their animation and dont cast it . About Blind my auto attacks will remove it > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > Ignoring that Ele has a lot more CC than you do, and the fact that it triggers a lot of them off of shocking aura, no, most specs to have enough stunbreaks and active evades to deal with a single fear and a single stun (*if* you get the stun, which usually you do not). > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) > While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . > If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > Grenade Barrage has to be aimed, yes, but it has to be aimed anyway. Thats how you play it. Stuff like Rapid Fire, Rangers version of the Barrage, or any kind of pulsing damage field? Nope, no aiming, but still multi-hits. A single blind A, wont save you, B, doesnt even apply if theyre not *in* the field, and C, it pulses once every *2* seconds. Youre not going to get an extra blind out of it if youre hoping for it. They had to use 0-1 stunbreaks on your first round. They have 1-2 left. Theyre not defenseless in the slightest. > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' > I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up > Thats what you wish happens. In reality, you avoid some of his attacks, but get hit by most of them. The damage from your shadowshot does not pile up, the damage youre taken from the opponents retaliation *does* pile up. Youre forced to run away, or die. You fail however to force him to use any active defense. > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges > If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block > Immobilise can still be cleansed. And every class has block *or* evade. Or blind, or invul, or interrupt, or etc. etc.. Point is, youre not getting that Fist Flurry Stun in the first place. And the damage reduction wont help you at all if youre staying to fight. > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. > > I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them Correct, you cant stay near them. In particular, because you cant stunlock them. What happens if that you get a 1 second fear. If they dont stunbreak or auto-cleanse that (I mean really, why would they?), then what? You throw impairing daggers. Assuming they dont just dodge those, they can still evade/blind/interrupt/whatever your fist flurry and stop your CC alltogether. While still hitting and killing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > > > > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > > > > Ignoring that Ele has a lot more CC than you do, and the fact that it triggers a lot of them off of shocking aura, no, most specs to have enough stunbreaks and active evades to deal with a single fear and a single stun (*if* you get the stun, which usually you do not). > I have 3 sec of stealth to spare and wait till they do active evades and jumpon them > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > > > > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) > > While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . > > If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > > > > Grenade Barrage has to be aimed, yes, but it has to be aimed anyway. Thats how you play it. Stuff like Rapid Fire, Rangers version of the Barrage, or any kind of pulsing damage field? Nope, no aiming, but still multi-hits. A single blind A, wont save you, B, doesnt even apply if theyre not *in* the field, and C, it pulses once every *2* seconds. Youre not going to get an extra blind out of it if youre hoping for it. > > They had to use 0-1 stunbreaks on your first round. They have 1-2 left. Theyre not defenseless in the slightest. > My first attack is a Daze Slight of hand . My second is a Fear . My forth is a 2 sec stun . If they waste high cd stunbreaks , i will come back in 15 sec > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > > > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' > > I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up > > > > Thats what you wish happens. In reality, you avoid some of his attacks, but get hit by most of them. The damage from your shadowshot does not pile up, the damage youre taken from the opponents retaliation *does* pile up. Youre forced to run away, or die. You fail however to force him to use any active defense. > Retalation does 297 , my Shadowshot 2200(Lead Attacks keep stacking) After 10 attacks , i will take 2970 damage and deal 22.000 > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > > > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges > > If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block > > > > Immobilise can still be cleansed. And every class has block *or* evade. Or blind, or invul, or interrupt, or etc. etc.. Point is, youre not getting that Fist Flurry Stun in the first place. And the damage reduction wont help you at all if youre staying to fight. > i think you are overreacting abit :) Ifthey had all thse things , then every meele character would never hit anything > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. > > > > I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them > > Correct, you cant stay near them. In particular, because you cant stunlock them. What happens if that you get a 1 second fear. If they dont stunbreak or auto-cleanse that (I mean really, why would they?), then what? You throw impairing daggers. Assuming they dont just dodge those, they can still evade/blind/interrupt/whatever your fist flurry and stop your CC alltogether. While still hitting and killing you. Shadowstep . You where the one to tell me to put in my utilities slot On which i did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > > > > > > > Ignoring that Ele has a lot more CC than you do, and the fact that it triggers a lot of them off of shocking aura, no, most specs to have enough stunbreaks and active evades to deal with a single fear and a single stun (*if* you get the stun, which usually you do not). > > > > I have 3 sec of stealth to spare and wait till they do active evades and jumpon them > I meant *after* you backstabbed them. Youre not going to stealth up mid-combat, for reasons I have already elaborated. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > > > > > > > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) > > > While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . > > > If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > > > > > > > Grenade Barrage has to be aimed, yes, but it has to be aimed anyway. Thats how you play it. Stuff like Rapid Fire, Rangers version of the Barrage, or any kind of pulsing damage field? Nope, no aiming, but still multi-hits. A single blind A, wont save you, B, doesnt even apply if theyre not *in* the field, and C, it pulses once every *2* seconds. Youre not going to get an extra blind out of it if youre hoping for it. > > > > They had to use 0-1 stunbreaks on your first round. They have 1-2 left. Theyre not defenseless in the slightest. > > > My first attack is a Daze Slight of hand . My second is a Fear . My forth is a 2 sec stun . > If they waste high cd stunbreaks , i will come back in 15 sec > You typically use steal into backstab. They overlap. And again, they wont have to waste anything. You wont find a favourable situation for you. Just a lost fight after a lost fight you keep having to run away from. All you do is waste time. > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > > > > > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' > > > I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up > > > > > > > Thats what you wish happens. In reality, you avoid some of his attacks, but get hit by most of them. The damage from your shadowshot does not pile up, the damage youre taken from the opponents retaliation *does* pile up. Youre forced to run away, or die. You fail however to force him to use any active defense. > > > Retalation does 297 , my Shadowshot 2200(Lead Attacks keep stacking) > After 10 attacks , i will take 2970 damage and deal 22.000 > I meant retaliation as in the word. Not retaliation as in the boon. You know, the attacks they use to fight back and crush you? > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges > > > If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block > > > > > > > Immobilise can still be cleansed. And every class has block *or* evade. Or blind, or invul, or interrupt, or etc. etc.. Point is, youre not getting that Fist Flurry Stun in the first place. And the damage reduction wont help you at all if youre staying to fight. > > > i think you are overreacting abit :) > Ifthey had all thse things , then every meele character would never hit anything > They dont have enough to avoid *everything*. But more than enough to avoid *some* things. Your Fist Flurry is just particularly avoidable (hell sometimes you can avoid it by walking). > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. > > > > > > I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them > > > > Correct, you cant stay near them. In particular, because you cant stunlock them. What happens if that you get a 1 second fear. If they dont stunbreak or auto-cleanse that (I mean really, why would they?), then what? You throw impairing daggers. Assuming they dont just dodge those, they can still evade/blind/interrupt/whatever your fist flurry and stop your CC alltogether. While still hitting and killing you. > > Shadowstep . > You where the one to tell me to put in my utilities slot > On which i did And Shadowstep is the best thief utility. But it doesnt change that youre trying to do the impossible here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > > > > > > > > > > Ignoring that Ele has a lot more CC than you do, and the fact that it triggers a lot of them off of shocking aura, no, most specs to have enough stunbreaks and active evades to deal with a single fear and a single stun (*if* you get the stun, which usually you do not). > > > > > > > I have 3 sec of stealth to spare and wait till they do active evades and jumpon them > > > > I meant *after* you backstabbed them. Youre not going to stealth up mid-combat, for reasons I have already elaborated. > After the backstab , they will be feared and i can easily imobilize without them evading it . If they waste ahigh cd of stun break and remove the imobilie... you know what i will go after 15 sec :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) > > > > While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . > > > > If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > > > > > > > > > > Grenade Barrage has to be aimed, yes, but it has to be aimed anyway. Thats how you play it. Stuff like Rapid Fire, Rangers version of the Barrage, or any kind of pulsing damage field? Nope, no aiming, but still multi-hits. A single blind A, wont save you, B, doesnt even apply if theyre not *in* the field, and C, it pulses once every *2* seconds. Youre not going to get an extra blind out of it if youre hoping for it. > > > > > > They had to use 0-1 stunbreaks on your first round. They have 1-2 left. Theyre not defenseless in the slightest. > > > > > My first attack is a Daze Slight of hand . My second is a Fear . My forth is a 2 sec stun . > > If they waste high cd stunbreaks , i will come back in 15 sec > > > > You typically use steal into backstab. They overlap. And again, they wont have to waste anything. You wont find a favourable situation for you. Just a lost fight after a lost fight you keep having to run away from. All you do is waste time. > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > > > > > > > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' > > > > I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up > > > > > > > > > > Thats what you wish happens. In reality, you avoid some of his attacks, but get hit by most of them. The damage from your shadowshot does not pile up, the damage youre taken from the opponents retaliation *does* pile up. Youre forced to run away, or die. You fail however to force him to use any active defense. > > > > > Retalation does 297 , my Shadowshot 2200(Lead Attacks keep stacking) > > After 10 attacks , i will take 2970 damage and deal 22.000 > > > > I meant retaliation as in the word. Not retaliation as in the boon. You know, the attacks they use to fight back and crush you? > Dodge+Blind from Shadowshots Should i use Black Powder , that last for 4 sec and the meanwhile regain some resources ? > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges > > > > If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block > > > > > > > > > > Immobilise can still be cleansed. And every class has block *or* evade. Or blind, or invul, or interrupt, or etc. etc.. Point is, youre not getting that Fist Flurry Stun in the first place. And the damage reduction wont help you at all if youre staying to fight. > > > > > i think you are overreacting abit :) > > Ifthey had all thse things , then every meele character would never hit anything > > > > They dont have enough to avoid *everything*. But more than enough to avoid *some* things. Your Fist Flurry is just particularly avoidable (hell sometimes you can avoid it by walking). > The 2nd part is easily avoidable , which is 1 sec cast . Immobilize > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. > > > > > > > > I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them > > > > > > Correct, you cant stay near them. In particular, because you cant stunlock them. What happens if that you get a 1 second fear. If they dont stunbreak or auto-cleanse that (I mean really, why would they?), then what? You throw impairing daggers. Assuming they dont just dodge those, they can still evade/blind/interrupt/whatever your fist flurry and stop your CC alltogether. While still hitting and killing you. > > > > Shadowstep . > > You where the one to tell me to put in my utilities slot > > On which i did > > And Shadowstep is the best thief utility. But it doesnt change that youre trying to do the impossible here. Shadowstep give me the survibility to avoid the scenario you proposed , that my life is endangered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Edit : Why are we arguing ? Its my spec to die horrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider.7849 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. To be fair, vets like Sind are in a rank far above you and all of us. He's literally #1. Her boyfriend could be scrub rank like silver or gold. Builds like that have a place there. Look at the people complaining about ranger pets lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but i don't follow you . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked the opinion of the forum's members to point me to the right direction and improve my build . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask sindrener 's help . In matter of fact he could have a secret Staff/Staff build , to be used on the July 2020 tournament . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be so beautiful and fluent to be seen and executed on the stream , before so many new buyers and the thieves community will be ecstatic with joy in the forums , leaving behind their problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result based on the freedback from the community , that helped my to create a spec (for personal use only) , allows me to CC the enemy while i burst him .Something so i can ''try'' to control him , rather than let him heal up and run away from me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the thing though. Why would they run away? When a thief jumps you, you fight back. If its a 2v1, different story, but even then if youre a bunker build you can still fight back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any time they are not near be , its a loss of dps , because i will be trying to catch them rather than burst them . Also giving them the chance to heal up or counter-attack me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whats the point of "catching" a player who can turn around and obliterate you? If anything, you should be running away from them as soon as they turn on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , rather than Backstabing them once and try to duel them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Warriors* have a hard time reliably stunlocking people, and they have more and faster CC. What luck will you have? Besides, do you think if this was an option, that people wouldnt have made this build? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personaly asked this build to be used by me . > > > > > > > > > What other people have to do with me ? > > > > > > > > > Congratz i guess , for Warriors having a stunlock spec too ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if Warrior can barely do it, how would thief, who is not even half as good at it be able to do it? The answer is, they arent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Warrior , have to do with my tactic on the spec i am using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it simple. Warrior, which has more and better CC, has a hard time stunlocking people. Because most builds have enough stunbreaks and active defenses to be able to deal with Warriors. Now, Warrior has more and better CC. If those builds have enough to deal with that, they certainly have enough to deal with your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the specs dont have enough stunbreaks . Thats why ppl are moaning lately for the CC LR ele spec > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102593/if-youre-complaining-about-lr-ele-the-problem-is-your-play#latest > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignoring that Ele has a lot more CC than you do, and the fact that it triggers a lot of them off of shocking aura, no, most specs to have enough stunbreaks and active evades to deal with a single fear and a single stun (*if* you get the stun, which usually you do not). > > > > > > > > > > I have 3 sec of stealth to spare and wait till they do active evades and jumpon them > > > > > > > I meant *after* you backstabbed them. Youre not going to stealth up mid-combat, for reasons I have already elaborated. > > > After the backstab , they will be feared and i can easily imobilize without them evading it . > If they waste ahigh cd of stun break and remove the imobilie... you know what i will go after 15 sec :) > Assuming they dont cleanse or stunbreak or have auto-cleanses. Which they will. Hell, they might just weaponswap and youre already looking silly. And yes, I know what you will do in 15 seconds. Try again and fail miserably again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ends results is almost identical by the Meta build , except some minor tweaks in the utilities department . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Metabuild site , the one utility is ''open'' for everyone to choose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The end result is a build that has only one stunbreak. What do you do against an Engineer slapping you with overcharged shot into Supply Crate or AEDs toolbelt skill? Or a Warrior Bull Rushing and Shield Bashing? Other than just die, that is. For that matter, what do you do against condi bombs? Your only stunbreak is also your only bust condi clear, and its a *looong* cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all of that, for what? An immobilise the enemy can just cleanse, and a stun that is so janky, walking back is often enough to stop it from hitting you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they are going to stun break the one sec Fear ? Regardless of what they do , i will immobilize them later . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to wait till their HP goes at 35% and then stun break my 2 sec stun (fists) ? I will keep Shadow Shot them . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they going to use 2x stun breaks and condition removal my immobilize ? Then i am going to help somewhere else for 15-20 sec (till my cds are up) and come back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, they could even cleanse the fear (assuming they have instant-cast cleanses) or have it be automatically cleansed by traits (good old Alchemy traitline). But yes, they can do that. You immob them, and they cleanse that. And ... now what? Hell, they could even dodge the impairing daggers, or block them, or evade them, not a big deal either way. And the Fist Flurry wont even hit 5 times to make the stun available since its trivially easy to stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre not going to get their HP to 35% off of a backstab and impairing daggers. Youll fail to hit 50%. And again, thats ignoring the fact that they can and *will* just fight back. Any half-decent player will take the opportunity to brutalise you and force you to escape without having accomplished anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the Backstab , the majority will try to dodge . Its in the human nature . > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait till its after and i will cast the imobilize . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre feared. They cant instinctively dodge (unless they have auto-cleanse). But sure, lets ignore that. You immobilise them. You do know immobilise is not a stun, right? They can still block, they can still use evading skills, they can still just cleanse. And if just a *single* hit of Fist Flurry fails to connect, the followup becomes unavailable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imbozile them + Shadowshots + autos then ? Or restealth ? Or run away for 15 sec ? > > > > > > > > > If they retaliate offensivly i use the Daggerstorm ? > > > > > > > > > If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you can do that. They still kill you because their damage is *much* higher than yours, and shadowshot does not impair them nearly enough. "Restealth" if you try to do it mid-combat, you get exploded. Please, do restealth against me, Ill just chuck a nade barrage and down you. "Run away for 15 secs" thats 15 seconds during which you are useless. And keep in mind, when you return 15 seconds later, things are not going to play out any differently. "If they retaliate offensively I use daggerstorm", ok, and then what? They just wait out the daggerstorm, maybe heal or buff up. It does not do a lot of damage nowadays. " If they play defensivly i try to Headshot crusial spells, till my cds are up ?" good luck doing anything without initiative that you used up on headshots that do no damage. Keep in mind, interrupts doesnt put the skill on full cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A combination of Blindness from Shadowshot+ the actual damage + Dodge can protect me , while i diss out some damage . > > > > > > > I can cast Black Powder + heartseeker , without a target are reposition myself (i didnt even know that myself - just learned 1 week ago) . > > > > > > > The majority of the staun breaks+ condition removals have a longer cds , than my 15-20 cds . Thats why when i come back i know that the victim is defenceless . > > > > > > > If run out of initiative because of headshots , i can use Impairing daggers + Fist Flurry which they dont cost anything . That why i choose them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont protect you nearly enough. Sure, you wont get hit by everything. But you will get hit by enough to be downed. And thats not even mentioning certain classes that have multihit attacks that trivialise blind (like Engineer). And sure, you can use black powder + heartseeker. Its just slow and invites the enemy to burst you. As I said, do that against me and Ill chuck a Grenade Barrage at you and down you. And sure, the stunbreaks have longer CDs, but you are sorely mistaken if you think they are "defenseless" when you return. They will still kill you. And sure, you could do that, but then they just trivially answer either of those. As I said, theyre bad utilities for a reaosn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mutli attacks like the Enginner' Grenade Barrage , must be aimed with your character in the centers of the spell so you can be hit by all the grenades (i use my Engineer some times in Fractals) > > > > > While doing the Black powder / heartseeker combo , the black powder pulse Blinds and protects you while you try to restealth . > > > > > If their stunbreaks is on cd , i will start a new round of cc > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grenade Barrage has to be aimed, yes, but it has to be aimed anyway. Thats how you play it. Stuff like Rapid Fire, Rangers version of the Barrage, or any kind of pulsing damage field? Nope, no aiming, but still multi-hits. A single blind A, wont save you, B, doesnt even apply if theyre not *in* the field, and C, it pulses once every *2* seconds. Youre not going to get an extra blind out of it if youre hoping for it. > > > > > > > > They had to use 0-1 stunbreaks on your first round. They have 1-2 left. Theyre not defenseless in the slightest. > > > > > > > My first attack is a Daze Slight of hand . My second is a Fear . My forth is a 2 sec stun . > > > If they waste high cd stunbreaks , i will come back in 15 sec > > > > > > > You typically use steal into backstab. They overlap. And again, they wont have to waste anything. You wont find a favourable situation for you. Just a lost fight after a lost fight you keep having to run away from. All you do is waste time. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive already explained why the first doesnt work, and how exactly do you plan to force them to burn their dodges as a thief? You dont have anything they *have* to dodge other than maybe backstab (and that one is situational because you cant always reliably dodge it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow shot ? > > > > > > > > > Quick restealth for another roun d of Backstab + Leeching Venoms + Shadow Siphoning + Rending Shade ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I dodge a shadowshot? Ive got health to spare, and the thief being right on top of me means theyre in kill range. Its beneficial to me. "Quick restealth for backstab" see above. If you do that, I get a massive amount of free damage in and most of the time outright down you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh no, a single blind. Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, autoattack then hit you with the hard-hitting stuff. Or hit you with the multi-attack stuff. Either way, this is not a trade youre winning, its a trade *Im* winning. > > > > > > > > > > > Again : '' Ifyou dont dodge the shadow shot , you will get blind , and then i procced to dodge another crusial atack and redo shadowshot+blind'' > > > > > I will keep avoiding his attacks , stacking poison from the autos and the shadowshot damage will keep pilling up > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats what you wish happens. In reality, you avoid some of his attacks, but get hit by most of them. The damage from your shadowshot does not pile up, the damage youre taken from the opponents retaliation *does* pile up. Youre forced to run away, or die. You fail however to force him to use any active defense. > > > > > > > Retalation does 297 , my Shadowshot 2200(Lead Attacks keep stacking) > > > After 10 attacks , i will take 2970 damage and deal 22.000 > > > > > > > I meant retaliation as in the word. Not retaliation as in the boon. You know, the attacks they use to fight back and crush you? > > > Dodge+Blind from Shadowshots > Should i use Black Powder , that last for 4 sec and the meanwhile regain some resources ? > Enough to dodge some skills. Not enough to dodge all the skills. You will still take too much damage. Black Powder also ticks in intervals of 2 seconds, it will not save you. > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The damage have been lowered across the board . In the worst case scenario i can dodge any dangerous attack . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not enough to make thief explode any less. You were overkilled prior to the patch, now youre just killed. And sure, you can dodge some dangerous attacks, but not all of them. If you stay in the fight, you get exploded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunlock them , and use traits such as Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes vs meeles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, you cant stunlock them. And Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes wont do you much good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preety sure i can . And having both traits (Marauders Resilience + weakening strikes) with the global reduction in damage , it helps > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Trust me, people have tried before. It just is super-ineffective. Fist Flurry just gets walked, blocked, evaded or blinded and the followup attack doesnt get unlocked. And Impairing Daggers just arent good. And as I said, the damage reduction just means you get regular killed rather than overkilled if you stay in a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc , and the damage reduction will be my safeplan along with the dodges > > > > > If you cast Impairing Daggers , then they cant be walked or evaded via dodge . And not all classes have block > > > > > > > > > > > > > Immobilise can still be cleansed. And every class has block *or* evade. Or blind, or invul, or interrupt, or etc. etc.. Point is, youre not getting that Fist Flurry Stun in the first place. And the damage reduction wont help you at all if youre staying to fight. > > > > > > > i think you are overreacting abit :) > > > Ifthey had all thse things , then every meele character would never hit anything > > > > > > > They dont have enough to avoid *everything*. But more than enough to avoid *some* things. Your Fist Flurry is just particularly avoidable (hell sometimes you can avoid it by walking). > > > The 2nd part is easily avoidable , which is 1 sec cast . > Immobilize You dont get the second part. Fist Flurry only flips to Palm Strike if *every* hit hits. If even a single one fails to hit? No Palm Strike, no stun. And its trivially easy to make one fail to hit. And as I said, immob gets dodged or cleansed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again for personal usage ... and stop my boyfriend from nagging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As said before, your boyfriend was completely right. This build doesnt really disprove that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a lot better than poping up Assassin and trying to do 5k Backstab and 3k Shadow shot +3k auto attacks , while waiting for the company to buff us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. In +1 situations neither Fist Flurry nor Impairing Daggers are gonna be any good. And youre not going to be able to 1v1 anyone either way. You just make it easier for enemies, in particular condi builds, to blow you up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must cc them . And avoid anything dangerous with dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, but as Ive said, it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must cc them , rather than box them . Thief was not build for duels > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, thief was originally built *specifically* for duels. But I digress. Anyway, its a nice thought, but you cant just CC them or stunlock them. Do that, and the enemy turns on you and kills you. The only way you can avoid losing every 1v1 as a thief, is to never fight 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why i must stunmlock them . > > > > > > > I wont actually ''fight them 1v1'' > > > > > > > > > > > > That is trying to fight a 1v1. As I said, you cant stunlock them. All you do is waste your resources before you inevitably either run away, or die. > > > > > > > > > > I will stunlock them , otherwise i cant stay near them > > > > > > > > Correct, you cant stay near them. In particular, because you cant stunlock them. What happens if that you get a 1 second fear. If they dont stunbreak or auto-cleanse that (I mean really, why would they?), then what? You throw impairing daggers. Assuming they dont just dodge those, they can still evade/blind/interrupt/whatever your fist flurry and stop your CC alltogether. While still hitting and killing you. > > > > > > Shadowstep . > > > You where the one to tell me to put in my utilities slot > > > On which i did > > > > And Shadowstep is the best thief utility. But it doesnt change that youre trying to do the impossible here. > > Shadowstep give me the survibility to avoid the scenario you proposed , that my life is endangered It lets you escape once, sure. But its got a 50 second cooldown. I thought you wanted to try in 15 seconds again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 @"Captain Kuro.8937" i wouldn’t worry to much about the negative comments, many of them are really just “meta complaints “ from players who don’t even play thief or ever really have smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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