Core Necromancer feels weak

[Humor.5763]

Hello all,

 

So I've finished World completion on my Revenant/Renegade now. Thought I might try out a new class.

 

So, Necromancer has always been on my list ever since the Beta/Launch of the game, but I was having too much fun with Warrior, Guardian, and as soon as HoT came out, tried Revenant, left for a few years, came back, and fully stacked my Renegade build into "Condition" (Damage over time). Now with my Renegade, I'm not even "Geared" out, mainly have rings/accessories/weapons, but not armor, or runes that boost condition damage, so again, not "Geared" by any means. However, with the combo rotation I'm using with Mace/Axe/Short bow, my Renegade can easily achieve 2-3K damage per tick, of Torment, and Fire damage. and usually around 500-1K per tick with poison damage. So stacking all these together, I'm able easily to take out groups, elites, and even some champion monsters/enemies with ease.

 

So, beginning a Necromancer (Core class), I started from level 1, and am currently lvl 72, however, I'm struggling to find any good weapons for this core class. I do plan on going "Reaper" once I reach level 80, and have saved up plenty of skill points.

 

Right from the get go, I knew I pretty much wanted to focus my Necromancer around you know... What Necromancers do, and summon minions. The survivability is great with how I have my Necromancer built thus far, and I don't really have any problem taking out Champion creatures at all, where I would struggle on a few with my Renegade. While this is all fine and great, as mentioned above, I've been struggling to find any real damage to be dealt by the Core class itself.

 

At the beginning, I started out using Dagger (Main hand), and Focus (Off hand), which seemed to be the highest damage dealing weapon I could possibly find, with the shortest cooldowns as well. As I started to get higher into the levels, I asked around in map chat and such, asking what the best weapon for a Necromancer would be, and got very mixed opinions on pretty much every weapon. Some people say the staff is the best, some say Scepter, even the Axe came up here and there, but never a Dagger. So, I did a bit of research, and found out that the Dagger (Main hand), seems to give the most life force, while the Staff is used simply to "Tag" trash monsters, which from swapping between these weapons, and trying it out for myself I could pretty much see, especially from the very beginning the Staff never really felt like it did anything to good.

 

I got down to a pretty simple rotation which seems to work for any weapon really, I would simply pull groups of enemies, use the staff Signet traps, swap to my dagger, go into Dark Shroud form, and use the #4 skill Life Drain or whatever it's called, then use the #5 skill, which casts torment on enemies, and soon afterwards blows up. This usually kills the group of enemies I'm fighting, and I soon afterwards continue to build up Lifeforce with the Dagger.

 

The reason I mentioned my Renegade at the beginning, is because from what I've looked up, a lot of people seem to say a "Condition" necromancer is good. So, I tried stacking as much Condition damage as possible on my lvl 72 Necromancer, and I have to say, I'm disappointed. In comparison to even the base Revenant class, the Scepter only targets one enemy at a time, where the Revenant's Condition damage targets anything in a straight line, and the mace's normal attack hits multiple enemies, stacking even more condition damage, and again the damage the Revenant/Renegade is doing per tick is around 2-3K per tick of fire damage, and Torment, with 500-1000 being Poison (Due to my ruins on the mace).

 

So I suppose what I'm getting at as the title mentions, does the Core Necromancer solely focus on minions for damage? Because every other weapon feels incredibly weak. I do very much like being able to survive majority of champions I've ran across so far, but I can't help but think the Necromancer (Core class), is nothing but a utility, which makes me question whether or not any of the subclasses (Scourge/reaper) are going to be any different.

 

This of course is meant to be directed towards PvE.

[KrHome.1920]

Core hasn't good PvE weapons. The result of that state - which exists since game release - is reaper with its amazing greatsword and scythe. The community demanded a viable PvE spec for necro.

 

For scourge they added the F-skills as the "weapon" to go.

 

Core necro in PvE is nothing less than a pain in the ass. Even in the competitive modes its weapons and shroud skills are underwhelming and boring.

 

When people say condi necro is good, then they are not talking about PvE.

[Kumouta.4985]

Core feels weak because it is weak. It has nothing going for it besides a big health pool. Reaper does ok damage and scourge can do ok dmg and is decent for supporting with barrier/rezzing, but other classes can easily outdo necro at anything.

[Taril.8619]

Core Necro is awkward.

 

For Condi build, it seems to be focused around the gimmick of using Corruption skills to apply conditions to yourself and then using Plague Signet + Deathly Swarm/Putrid Mark (From x/Dagger and Staff respectively) to send them to your enemy... But also using Epidemic to spread them in an AoE... Which leaves you with limited options to actually do much. With Scepter seemingly being balanced around having the GM trait from Curses spec "Lingering Curse" to make Feast of Corruption become an AoE (As well as significantly buffing its single target Condi stacking with the 50% duration increase)

 

For Power build you pretty much just have Axe/Warhorn. As Axe can burst pretty decently with Ghastly Claws (Which also gains a bunch of Life Force) whilst this weapon set up also has some AoE in the form of Unholy Feast and Locust Swarm (Unfortunately, UF's extra explosion proc has a ridiculous 25% life threshold making it rather useless). Though, Well of Suffering is also really strong

 

Once you get Elite specs though, Necro finally gets some decent skills. Greatsword is pretty good (With Reaper Shroud being sick) making a Power build viable. While Scourge gets a suite of F skills and support for Condi builds as well as access to Burning, though there's still a distinct lack of straight forward Condi stacking in an AoE, with it relying almost entirely on Epidemic which comes with a 50% duration decrease...

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Core necromancer has a strong hybrid component to its gameplay, so you are kinda forced if you wanna maximize dmg to go hybrid equipment but you become squishy.

Keep in mind condi core necro is a tank(rabid/dire gear or trailblazer) with no that high damage but you have so much armor and vitality that it's difficult to die.

If you consider going Reaper I would advise you to start getting berserker gear before and after level80, so that you are basically already on the mindset of a power reaper.

You can still keep playing power minion mancer if you want it's probably the strongest option in open world pve, in case you don't like it here a build you can try

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE25WZGsE2BDhdij0k3qE-e you can use golem too if you need to break bars, but lich with grimspecter that steal vitality if you are surrounded by can be usefull.

[Humor.5763]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> Core necromancer has a strong hybrid component to its gameplay, so you are kinda forced if you wanna maximize dmg to go hybrid equipment but you become squishy.

> Keep in mind condi core necro is a tank(rabid/dire gear or trailblazer) with no that high damage but you have so much armor and vitality that it's difficult to die.

> If you consider going Reaper I would advise you to start getting berserker gear before and after level80, so that you are basically already on the mindset of a power reaper.

> You can still keep playing power minion mancer if you want it's probably the strongest option in open world pve, in case you don't like it here a build you can try

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE25WZGsE2BDhdij0k3qE-e you can use golem too if you need to break bars, but lich with grimspecter that steal vitality if you are surrounded by can be usefull.

 

I try to refrain from looking up builds, I don't find premade stuff any fun, and it doesn't help me learn. Thanks though, to everyone.

 

I suppose I'm not used to being so "Tanky", well at least not in a game that doesn't revolve around a "Holy Trinity".

 

Necro is still fun, I suppose I'm just not used to such a weak class. Didn't really want to make a Necro for Afk farming, but kinda seems like that's their only saving grace right now.

 

Oh well, I'm sure it'll pick up once I swap to a Reaper. I heard Scourge got nerfed into the ground a while back, so, that's pretty much what deters me from even attempting to throw any points into it as of yet.

 

Thanks again all. If no weapon really has any value to core Necro, suppose I'll tough it out with what I'm currently using (Dagger/Focus). Long Cooldown times bore me, especially after the Renegade/Reveneant being able to turn on and off certain skills at will (Mainly Mallyx and stacking 30 Torments to groups).

[Axl.8924]

> @"Humor.5763" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > Core necromancer has a strong hybrid component to its gameplay, so you are kinda forced if you wanna maximize dmg to go hybrid equipment but you become squishy.

> > Keep in mind condi core necro is a tank(rabid/dire gear or trailblazer) with no that high damage but you have so much armor and vitality that it's difficult to die.

> > If you consider going Reaper I would advise you to start getting berserker gear before and after level80, so that you are basically already on the mindset of a power reaper.

> > You can still keep playing power minion mancer if you want it's probably the strongest option in open world pve, in case you don't like it here a build you can try

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE25WZGsE2BDhdij0k3qE-e you can use golem too if you need to break bars, but lich with grimspecter that steal vitality if you are surrounded by can be usefull.

>

> I try to refrain from looking up builds, I don't find premade stuff any fun, and it doesn't help me learn. Thanks though, to everyone.

>

> I suppose I'm not used to being so "Tanky", well at least not in a game that doesn't revolve around a "Holy Trinity".

>

> Necro is still fun, I suppose I'm just not used to such a weak class. Didn't really want to make a Necro for Afk farming, but kinda seems like that's their only saving grace right now.

>

> Oh well, I'm sure it'll pick up once I swap to a Reaper. I heard Scourge got nerfed into the ground a while back, so, that's pretty much what deters me from even attempting to throw any points into it as of yet.

>

> Thanks again all. If no weapon really has any value to core Necro, suppose I'll tough it out with what I'm currently using (Dagger/Focus). Long Cooldown times bore me, especially after the Renegade/Reveneant being able to turn on and off certain skills at will (Mainly Mallyx and stacking 30 Torments to groups).

 

scepter warhorn is condi if that helps, and axe is power.

 

Reaper has greatsword, which when combined with axe you have a medium-range with the ability to put on a ton of vulnerability, and greatsword can smack enemies fairly hard in PVE. On top of that, you can also do a ton of damage with number 3 on GS. I think greatsword is the best PVE weapon, along side reaper.

 

If this is about SPVP, core nec was nerfed fairly hard and soon it's going to be nerfed really hard into the ground. Any time necros are good in SPVP, it doesn't last long before they become punching bags, and that's what everyone wants.

[Anchoku.8142]

Players often do not provide enough detail when discussing "condi-Necro."

 

Core power-Necro with extra condi duration and corruptions is good in PvP. The mostly non-damaging, soft CC conditions support power builds with chill, cripple, stun, and such. That is it. Necro does not have a good condi-dps build, even among elite specializations.

 

Necro _used to have_ some good condi builds but was hard-nerfed. Core Necro _used to be_ decent at condition management but other professions were reworked to be as good, if not better.

 

Core Necro _is_ weak. Use Epidemic to copy-pasta conditions between mobs. It is the one major skill in core that will get your Necro above trash tier for a moment, if you use it right and are lucky. Otherwise, get used to minions.

[Junkpile.7439]

I kill mobs in pve just fine. Full berserker core necro is good and full trailblazer condi necro is just stupid. Scary think that somebody who actually know how to play would try it.

[DeceiverX.8361]

This thread is the epitome of why we need PvE, PvP, and WvW tags within the professions forum.

 

Core is great in the PvP modes right now and has always been kinda meh in PvE because of how insanely tanky it is since the content never actually lets it leverage its durability.

[Dadnir.5038]

Core necro is "OK". It is not especially "weak", it just lack burst now that focus #4 have been changed.

The gameplay sure is less exciting than reaper's but that's all. It's not that difficult to do high numbers in PvE (13k-15k hits) by simply using life blast. As for condition damage, the ramping up is indeed longer and it's important to not think of _dhuumfire_ as an important tool of your dps while playing core in fact dhuumfire is mostly a dps loss in this gamemode (A core condi build will focus on bleed above all in PvE and use shroud almost only for Shrd#2 and Shrd#5 or as temporary defense).

 

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> This thread is the epitome of why we need PvE, PvP, and WvW tags within the professions forum.

>

> Core is great in the PvP modes right now and has always been kinda meh in PvE because of how insanely tanky it is since the content never actually lets it leverage its durability.

 

The necromancer in the vanilla game (before HoT) never felt "tanky" in PvE. In fact, survivability was one of it's issue in dungeons and fractals where a single dodge or teleporting often proved more useful than entering shroud. Believe it or not it was one of the numerous reasons behind the lack of popularity of the necromancer in instanced PvE content. (lack of survivability, lack of mobility, lack of cleave, lack of blast, lack of damage and lack of utility. That's how the necromancer was seen before HoT)

 

As for the thread, the OP specifically write:

> This of course is meant to be directed towards PvE.

 

I don't see any ambiguity. The necromancer itself is a lost cause in term of competivity for high end PvE purpose due to it's tools design and PvE design. As for open PvE it is and have always been fine since you don't need much "subtility" in this aspect of the game.

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Core hasn't good PvE weapons. The result of that state - which exists since game release - is reaper with its amazing greatsword and scythe. The community demanded a viable PvE spec for necro.

>

> For scourge they added the F-skills as the "weapon" to go.

>

> Core necro in PvE is nothing less than a pain in the kitten. Even in the competitive modes its weapons and shroud skills are underwhelming and boring.

>

> When people say condi necro is good, then they are not talking about PvE.

 

Core Condi Necro is not bad

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Core necro is "OK". It is not especially "weak", it just lack burst now that focus #4 have been changed.

> The gameplay sure is less exciting than reaper's but that's all. It's not that difficult to do high numbers in PvE (13k-15k hits) by simply using life blast. As for condition damage, the ramping up is indeed longer and it's important to not think of _dhuumfire_ as an important tool of your dps while playing core in fact dhuumfire is mostly a dps loss in this gamemode (A core condi build will focus on bleed above all in PvE and use shroud almost only for Shrd#2 and Shrd#5 or as temporary defense).

>

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > This thread is the epitome of why we need PvE, PvP, and WvW tags within the professions forum.

> >

> > Core is great in the PvP modes right now and has always been kinda meh in PvE because of how insanely tanky it is since the content never actually lets it leverage its durability.

>

> The necromancer in the vanilla game (before HoT) never felt "tanky" in PvE. In fact, survivability was one of it's issue in dungeons and fractals where a single dodge or teleporting often proved more useful than entering shroud. Believe it or not it was one of the numerous reasons behind the lack of popularity of the necromancer in instanced PvE content. (lack of survivability, lack of mobility, lack of cleave, lack of blast, lack of damage and lack of utility. That's how the necromancer was seen before HoT)

>

> As for the thread, the OP specifically write:

> > This of course is meant to be directed towards PvE.

>

> I don't see any ambiguity. The necromancer itself is a lost cause in term of competivity for high end PvE purpose due to it's tools design and PvE design. As for open PvE it is and have always been fine since you don't need much "subtility" in this aspect of the game.

 

I missed the PvE sentence. My bad.

Though it does kinda reinforce my point having a tag would be super helpful, even if for my own sake lol.

[Yasai.3549]

That's because all of Necro's core weapons have garbage cleave.

Their Shroud has decent cleave but are cooldown gated.

 

Yur best way to cleave is to use Condi with Sceptre and spread the Condis with Epidemic.