How satisfied are you with Scourge?

[Ritualist Essence.9285]

Imagine if they did a PVE split for Scourge where the "Boon converts to torment" was changed to always applying torment on that particular skill. This would add a bit more stacks of torment in PVE usage without effecting WVW or PVP. How much more DPS would it be though ? To make it more viable in PVE they could also make a PVE split version of Demonic Lore that has a reduce cool down on apply burning when applying torment, 2 sec cool down instead of 3 sec.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Ritualist Essence.9285" said:

> Imagine if they did a PVE split for Scourge where the "Boon converts to torment" was changed to always applying torment on that particular skill. This would add a bit more stacks of torment in PVE usage without effecting WVW or PVP. How much more DPS would it be though ? To make it more viable in PVE they could also make a PVE split version of Demonic Lore that has a reduce cool down on apply burning when applying torment, 2 sec cool down instead of 3 sec.

 

I don't even think that it would be enough. Honnestly, I even don't care about the dps. The fact is that Anet push the necromancer into tools that are inherently bad in PvE. Be it corruption, barrier or condi cleanse, none of them have a good enough impact in PvE to be meaningfull. As for might, you need 2 scourges to do the job of 1 warrior and you are still lacking in power support after that. The fact that when you trait for dps, the dps is now down to oblivion just feel like a joke on top of that.

[Khailyn.6248]

I had some hopes during beta that it would be interesting with the barrier and might stacking to really play support without my druid, but nerf after nerf, its hard to play. Went back to power reaper (not that it doesnt have its own issues.) if bother to log in at all.

[Zero.3871]

> @Ara.4569 said:

> From a PvP stand point:

>

> #####Pros

> - It has depth. On paper.

> - F2-F5 can be used while disabled.

> - It adds mild support, I guess. If you don't look too seriously.

>

> #####Cons

> - Extremely polarized: you melt things in close range and get melted from afar. No middle grounds.

> - Still no mobility (Sand Swell is bad: uncreative, has cast time, 900 range, doesn't work vertically most of the time).

> - Even less stability. Yes, it was possible, so they did it. Amazing. Just amazing.

> - I don't like that Minor traits are more effective with Sand Savant than without. Smells like bad design to me.

> - Still no scalable/active defense.

> - Guess what boon we give to party members if we decide to go "support" ? Yes, it's Might. Very refreshing/innovative/needed.

>

> Sand Savant should be base line. No ammo system for shades. In PvP you have to take it if you want to cover a point, hit fast moving targets and get 15% damage reduction fast. You don't want to waste time, micro managing tiny shades, as it takes 1 second to cast each: an eternity in "power creeped to death" PvP. That would add build diversity. Something ANet was trying to sell a long time ago.

>

> And no, the insane condi bombing / boon rip is not a good point. It's not healthy.

>

> I expect a hard nerf without any fix to the glaring flaws of this spec.

>

> Give me a decent Power Reaper and I will shut up for a while.

 

i agree with most of your points, but without ammo system on f1 -> scourge would be completely useless. ammo system on sand savant is best scourge have at the moment.

 

and i am wondering that many people say scourge is boring to play, because classes like thiefs(dodge spam), warris (invul spam) or ranger and deadeye (just pewpew) are a lot more boring than scourge...

[Anchoku.8142]

Things I dislike:

 

* Torch being off-hand and forcing sceptre builds... again

* Barriers as a very interesting way to not provide mobility, scaling defense, or adequate group utility

* No fixes to core Necromancer issues like dagger being confused and Death Magic being largely useless

* No fix for Reaper's weak power

 

[Kinook.1497]

i am disatisfied because they didnt balance it right. I do love the new spells and sand shroud. Condi support is a nice role to be able to play.

[Swadow.6213]

I am completely furious really. We were supposed to be getting a supportive spec, but we got a damage spec but it was a good damage spec. Then it got kicked down further to the ground in PvE than anything and I am really getting flashbacks to the original launch day when necros were getting kicked by groups for Zhaitan fight

[Zefiris.8297]

Playing it further, I'm even more dissatisfied, especially after visiting WvW.

 

No, this is not a "omg we are so weak in WvW now". We're not, and that is the problem. I just killed people left and right, treating them like veteran mobs in my full PVE viper's gearset, and only lost to groups. This suggests that either I played against the worst roamers ever, or that scourge will get more (deserved) nerfs in PVP that, likely, will hurt us even more in PVE. :(

 

The problem is Arenanet's (lack of) balancing. This spec should never have gone life in this state. It should have been tweaked to be much stronger in PVE (preferably support, I don't even WANT damage neccessarily, I'd prefer a support spec groups would want as much as a Druid or a cPS), and much weaker in PVP/WVW.

The end result of it going life the way it did?

 

Many are convinced it needs to be forever useless because they died to it in PVP, see all the posts in this forum arguing that Necros should always be bad in PVE for...some reason they never explain. But it's blatantly PVP rage. We all know that. And this isn't the first time this happened.

 

Cmon guys, test this stuff beforehand. None of the issues with the specs were secrets, all of them were discussed after the first PVP weekend, from shade stacking to dhuumfire. There is no excuse that it wasn't fixed before PoF went gold.

[Kichwas.7152]

I just can't find a reason to use any weapon but scepter... and I don't like scepter...

 

I like playing melee. But Dagger is best on power builds and greatsword isn't an option.

 

So... I don't see anything wrong with Scourge, but didn't see a reason to not be Reaper.

 

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> I'm still satisfied though that its prolonged AOE tagging potential is great.

> I'm able to tag mobs easily in the Mad King's Labyrinth and WvW too =)

 

So basically the purpose of Necromancer is now to farm Lake Dorric?

 

Ouch...

[Galmac.4680]

Right now in this "bugfixed" state? Was much more fun before this ... "bugfix".

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @Ara.4569 said:

> Give me a decent Power Reaper and I will shut up for a while.

 

pretty much this.

 

I've ignored scourge because it's literally "Why Necros get melted, the abridged edition" (Lay AOEs on point, thus remove them first/focus) and have been tinkering with power reaper to see if I can put together something that works overall.

 

[Slayer.7318]

Barriers even if for as short of a time as they are had a secondary effect even via a trait like Barriers grant Protection or Retaliation it would make them more worthwhile. while for pvp and wvw yah boon corruption and such works because players have access to many status effects and boons in pve enemies just lack any and all of that making it a worthless mechanic for these game modes. i am fine with there not being a amazing amount of DPS for a scourge because they were always labled as a support class but they can't even do that outside of condition management and giving barrier that is basically a poor mans aegie. And why give them basically what Core Necro can do? there is already a well that converts conditions to boons and another that converts boons to conditions and corrupt condition and such. Give Scourge something new

 

All (Sand Shades) should for starters be able to blind foes that enter (even if it is once per person per shade or 3 pulses on a greater one or the greater one adding some other effect for first time entering) it only makes sense with their control of sand. then have shades that grant foes a conditon and allies a boon like one that grants Bleed to foes and Might to allies., one that grants fear to foes and stabiltiy to allies, one that cripple foes and swiftness allies with their last one the desert shroud granting Protection to the necro and allies just as a example of how the shades should be more supportive based while keeping in the necro condition theme.

 

The Torch i could of course understand the Condition Control part as well burning the conditions away could work. Maybe having Harrowing Wave remove a condition off a any allies in the area or convert it to might or something . the Oppresive Collapse seems alright maybe if it hits a foe creating a fire field giving more of a support in a pve fight or having a blast finisher. Trail of anguish removing cripple on allies and giving longer swiftness time if allie is cripples, Dessicate maybe giving more might, Sand Swell maybe adding blind to foes who walk over it and Serpent Siphon maybe healing to allies in the area. Ghastly Breach possibly giving Retaliation too or more Might.

 

Trait wise. Again barrier application giving a small Protection buff , merge Blood as Sand with Desert Empowerment and put Demonic Law as a Minor Grandmaster Trait in its place to allow scourge to pick a much more supporting Grandmaster Trait . Why would you ever take something like Sand Savant or Feed from Corruption in its current state? 33% more damage from torment and torment burning is way too useful and should be staple to scourge in general as a minor trait much like Reapers fear chilling foe trait. Sand Savant should have a slightly bigger radius for only having 1 sand shroud and such. little things like that in the trait tree could go a long way to improveing the support of the Scourge.

[Methuselah.4376]

While I miss the uber-melt-everything-with-stacked-shades Scourge, I still enjoy the profession and the different way I approach enemies. And quite frankly, I still melt stuff, just not as instantly as I did with 3 stacked shades. TBH I mostly played with 1 shade for most of the time, using more if there are more than the limit for one shade. I stacked mostly on bosses.

Honestly, Scourge is no where near as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

They got rid of death shroud (yes!), they gave us good condi damage (yes!). Its pretty good for me. Honestly, I think many complaints are from:

 

A) People who expected a support spec (borrrrring imo. If I wanted that, I'd play my mesmer as a chronomancer or roll a druid). We don't need more of these "support only" specs. But I guess some people want to stand out of a fight and cast an annoyingly long rotation while watching their team-mates do all the leg-work.

B) People who expected to be able to keep shade-stacking.

C) People who are salty about dhurrmfire and don't know how to adapt.

D) People who aren't adept at playing necromancer and just joined for the bandwagon (or were never good from the start).

 

Note: I picked "very dissatisfied", but if the fourms would let me roll back, I'd pick very satisfied. My rating was very much a kneejerk reaction and upon adapting to the changes, I'd say we are still very solid.

[Maunzi.3764]

> Honestly, Scourge is no where near as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

 

Meanwhile, in content that matters, scourge has simply no damage that is worth to bring, nor any useful support anyone wants. I guess you're fine in the open world though :)

 

That seems to be the common denominator between people that say things like ~and don't know how to adapt~ or ~I'm totally fine~ - they're doing faceroll open world content, and don't realize that everyone else is talking about raids, where different standards apply, and we can actually measure your performance using various tools. And the objective result of these is pretty clear:

 

Scourge is bad. In fact, it performs so badly that the devs have already confirmed a buff to be incoming.

[HardRider.2980]

Hmmm Im sorta happy.. But there's still quite some issue with it... IN general... Soo Im gonna wait till the balance patch again and see what they do with Scourge as some things i hate or like might change..

 

I'll come back and make a comment when the BP hits.

 

(Actually atm if i could i'd change my vote to neutral)

[Flumek.9043]

PRO

-instant casts on necro

 

CON

-all necro problems to extreme, its glassiest glass megacanon

-its a support spec with 0 support, -10 self survival and 100 damage. A support simply needs live and run from 2v1s and no facetank playstyle will ever achieve that

-our weapons are clunky. theyve been trash since HOT, but reaper generating reliable lifeforce from utility and traits was a bandaid fix. GL generating anything on dagger

[Exqq.7451]

Reduce the cost of Shroud skills so we can actually use them to proc Dhuumfire (now that it has been gutted on F5). Remove the "Heavy Support Barriers" from Shroud skills if you have to and combine them into Sand Savant as a support line so we can actually have good DPS since then we would not provide "Heavy Support". So disappointed with the class. Conceptually it is neat, but feels so short of goal trying to do too much. It is weak at all and master of nothing. While I'll continue to play it, I really wish they would take a second look.

 

PS - Can you remove the cast time on Minions and reduce the CD so if I run them I can actually use them... since they deal basically 0 DPS and the utility is a joke at best... kk Thanks! See you at the "balance patch".......... QQ Hell, make them auto summon if on the bars and off CD... I miss my little guys.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

Sluggish, out ranged, out run, underpowered, underwhelming. Where did my little bit of stability go?

 

WvW: only affective standing in between a couple players propping you up.

intended as ranged class (I guess) outplayed by all.

 

PvP: Stand on point, hope you don't get ranged, in close combat it's a lottery of spam.

 

PvE: Fine.

 

Conclusion: In design it didn't look further then one build.

The profession& developers keeps dancing around the La Sponge Grande myth.

 

Reflects on GS & reflect on all off hands is a must amidst the projectiles flying around making this 2nd hp bar a running joke, Time to seriously look into any form of counter.

[TheUndefined.1720]

Initially, I thought the sand shades were a super entertaining idea (I mained a ritualist in GW1 so I got excited with the shades). However, when I actually started to incorporate them into my rotation, I found it really frustrating trying to maintain a certain number of shades all the time. I'm probably doing something wrong, but I have investigated it as best as I could and I cannot maintain 2 shades without them disappearing and being totally dry on charges to pull up anymore.

 

I think the whole theme of this necro spec isn't really appropriate either. The whole undead / death part of the desert / Elona were the sulfurous wastes. I figure something to do with suffocation / sulfur / miasma would've been more appropriate, but oh well.

 

Thanks for the thread :D

[gannondorf.7628]

I would have voted for satisfied or very satisfied if the elite spec was a proper support spec coz i really love the originality of the dark/necromantic sand it's kinda unique and i liked the fact that they rid off death shroud. Sadly the spec, which was designed toward a support role, doesn't offer a proper support at all.

[Asura Master Race.1593]

> @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

> I'm very satisfied that I never played a Scourge and still play a Power Reaper.

 

Pppffftttt.

 

That is some brilliant snark.

[Asura Master Race.1593]

> @Methuselah.4376 said:

> While I miss the uber-melt-everything-with-stacked-shades Scourge, I still enjoy the profession and the different way I approach enemies. And quite frankly, I still melt stuff, just not as instantly as I did with 3 stacked shades. TBH I mostly played with 1 shade for most of the time, using more if there are more than the limit for one shade. I stacked mostly on bosses.

> Honestly, Scourge is no where near as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

 

That's the way the unfortunately invested and passionate gamers always react to their favorite thing underperforming in group content: excessive gloom and doomsaying.

 

I've seen it oh so many times in Warcraft it will make the head spin.

 

Granted, in THIS case it's justifiable.

 

The stats are the stats. It is what it is: Scourge and Reaper and Necromancer core are severely underperforming in group content (commonly referred to as "content that matters"*)

 

Truly, it seems that most people who are satisfied with necromancer and her two specs are those who either don't PvP as a career or play the game for the sake of instanced "hardcore"(hardcore in this case meaning most efficient timesaving flavor of the month damage dealing) content.

 

*Content that matters is extremely subjective to personal opinion.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

> @minion.1987 said:

> my stance is always going to be for core to be buffed.

 

I'm a fan of the core necro too its the one that feels the most caster.

[Laiboch.4380]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> About 70% feels neutral or better. That's pretty decent.

 

As of today 74% feel neutral or worse....