Bossun.2046 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 HI guys, from what i have been playing since the BIG patch a month or 2 away, Dragon Banner is just BUSTED. One banner can literally turn the whole fight around, and with the insane amount of CC skills needed to slow the carrier down is just insane in this meta. I haven't seen much of the other banners, but as for Dragon Banner, its in almost every fight, carrying whatever team they are in. This needs a damage nerf AND for CCs to have a bigger effect on the break bar. If anyone can speak for other banners feel free but as for me currently am tired of being pushed around by Dragon Banner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 It should only be usable if you have Outnumbered buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossun.2046 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. Those can also use dragon banners too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > Those can also use dragon banners too This is something people don't seem to understand. Have I helped a group wipe a larger group with a DB before? Yep. Has the group we wiped come back with 2, 3 or even 4 banners? Also yes. As the larger server controls more and is often able to upgrade them and place banners in more structures. I find most people however have no idea how to use a DB, even though it can be effective even in noob hands. Little tipsy game play of mine showing what DB can do in it's current state. First is a guild group at the gate, just soaking up everything, and a few people pew pewing them. Second group was on the other gate, looked mostly pug zerg. Both one pushed by me with a banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWI.4127 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Here's a clip with the DPS meter showing. A few things to note: * Over 1 million damage in about 25 seconds. Pretty sure I surpassed PvE benchmarks on stationary golems, but I could be wrong. * In this clip, the 3 skill does 70k damage in one use. Sure, I did have some damage buffs, but in a time when CC is supposed to do little to no damage, this is obviously completely out-of-whack. Do something Anet. I made a topic warning them this was going to happen before the competitive balance patch hit, and here we are months later and nothing has changed. edit: I forgot to mention I'm also pretty sure it lags the server out if you have enough people fighting and someone drops a banner 5. It has a really high target cap and all those damage calculations, condi applications to foes, and quickness application to allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > Those can also use dragon banners too Of course. And the counter is db too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Hm, people usually say the bigger group going to win anyway, so wouldn't it not matter if they had dragon banner or not? At least it can still help the smaller group somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossun.2046 Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 @"SWI.4127" That is insane! Something i noticed from the DH gameplay was how you ware able to practaically dance around the group casting your banner skills. That could be something that Anet could target; locking other skills out while using a banner. IDK, but something needs to be done. The sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"Bossun.2046" said: > @"SWI.4127" That is insane! > > Something i noticed from the DH gameplay was how you ware able to practaically dance around the group casting your banner skills. That could be something that Anet could target; locking other skills out while using a banner. IDK, but something needs to be done. The sooner the better. It's not really dancing around them, they were almost all in down state, no one really left to pressure me. Almost all of the dmg I took was from retal etc on me and not direct dmg from the group. Which is why you see me pop RF after, as that alone can kill you. However you do NOT have to dance around, DB has good range, I could have been much further away. I didn't do that there because it was a guild group at the gate and the chance they would have seen the DB cast coming was to high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWI.4127 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. +1. Don't forget you need decent map control to even have banners, so it can definitely favor the winning side more than the losing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 > @"SWI.4127" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > +1. Don't forget you need decent map control to even have banners, so it can definitely favor the winning side more than the losing one. The issue is any shareable stuff that helps the team like bloodlust food keep buff guild buffs etc., Is pro numbers. How do you compete with people who want to try hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? 5. That's called bad design. I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. > > 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. > 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? > 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. > 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? > 5. That's called bad design. > > I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. The issue I have is because banners exist and enemies use it, so I have little option except to use it too. And if anet realizes it is op, then maybe they will do something. Else, if it's not demonstrated . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > > > > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > > > > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > > > > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > > > > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > > > > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. > > > > 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. > > 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? > > 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. > > 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? > > 5. That's called bad design. > > > > I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. > > The issue I have is because banners exist and enemies use it, so I have little option except to use it too. > > And if anet realizes it is op, then maybe they will do something. Else, if it's not demonstrated . Thats the problem, it's busted and the only real counter is more of them. Anet knows it's busted but they're dragging their feet on nerfing it, no way of knowing why. Heck it was busted before the big patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > > > > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > > > > > > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > > > > > > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > > > > > > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > > > > > > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > > > > > > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. > > > 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? > > > 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. > > > 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? > > > 5. That's called bad design. > > > > > > I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. > > > > The issue I have is because banners exist and enemies use it, so I have little option except to use it too. > > > > And if anet realizes it is op, then maybe they will do something. Else, if it's not demonstrated . > > Thats the problem, it's busted and the only real counter is more of them. Anet knows it's busted but they're dragging their feet on nerfing it, no way of knowing why. Heck it was busted before the big patch. And as long as the other team uses them, I will too. As a commander, I dislike seeing my people die. It's a game, but you got to take care of you squad. Get angry at them for not taking care so they get better. And advise them to do something else if it's not their cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > > > > > > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > > > > > > > > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > > > > > > > > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > > > > > > > > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > > > > > > > > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > > > > > > > > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. > > > > 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? > > > > 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. > > > > 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? > > > > 5. That's called bad design. > > > > > > > > I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. > > > > > > The issue I have is because banners exist and enemies use it, so I have little option except to use it too. > > > > > > And if anet realizes it is op, then maybe they will do something. Else, if it's not demonstrated . > > > > Thats the problem, it's busted and the only real counter is more of them. Anet knows it's busted but they're dragging their feet on nerfing it, no way of knowing why. Heck it was busted before the big patch. > > And as long as the other team uses them, I will too. As a commander, I dislike seeing my people die. It's a game, but you got to take care of you squad. Get angry at them for not taking care so they get better. And advise them to do something else if it's not their cup of tea. You're completely missing the point. Dragonbanner is busted and needs serious nerfs. Use them while you can, just don't act like they aren't a problem. People gravitate to what's easiest to use and gets the best results, and dragonbanner is a 'Press 5 to Win' item so of course people are going to abuse them. It's not about it not being people's cup of tea or anything like that, it's that they get tired of a fight being determined by who has more banners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bossun.2046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. Everything is killable with a group who places the overall group first and plays meta specs and joins voice comms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we reach blob size, none can kill us except when they get db or when we lag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is , it's rare to be beaten in blob fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > There will be unkillable blobs if you get rid of the banner. Especially those blobs with power scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those can also use dragon banners too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. And the counter is db too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the counter to a busted thing is to bring more of them, then it's a problem. Then it just becomes banner wars which still favors the bigger blobs or ones that control more territory. Congrats! You solved nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's wvw. Numbers = the more of quality win. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quality is experience gear tactics banners siege situational niche, good ping and coms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end of the day, someone has to lose and there will be only one winner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Numbers are just a matter of population, which no one can really control. Banners being disproportionately busted and allowing for ridiculous snowballing for already winning servers is bad game design. We should be trying to create mechanics that allow for outnumbered groups to stand a chance without handing free win buttons to the already winning side. That just makes people leave and compounds the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Issue is there will be no balance simply because 24/7 not all have the same coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second issue is banner is there so use it even in those not balanced circumstance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Third issue is banner kills all if done well whether enemy is many or few. > > > > > > > > > > > > But it can simply be dodged by a good player. Which not all can have because of the first issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all game design. And the design is 7 day ppt accomulation. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, thats why Anet needs to introduce something to help the underpopulated servers. > > > > > 2. Again, why does the stacked side get access to such a busted item? > > > > > 3. You just stated the biggest problem here. DB is absolutely busted and can be the biggest factor in a group wiping. > > > > > 4. If you ever invoke the 'Just dodge' defense, rethink it. Banner has access to what's basically a rev hammer 2 for an auto, superspeed, massive AoE CC and the single biggest AoE carpet skill in the game that does absurd damage. It's not like banner is by itself, it's with a group thats also pushing and bombing you, so just dodge both the blob and the giant carpet skill? What about the other 3 they brought with them? > > > > > 5. That's called bad design. > > > > > > > > > > I get it you like the banner, but it's absolutely busted and needs serious nerfs. > > > > > > > > The issue I have is because banners exist and enemies use it, so I have little option except to use it too. > > > > > > > > And if anet realizes it is op, then maybe they will do something. Else, if it's not demonstrated . > > > > > > Thats the problem, it's busted and the only real counter is more of them. Anet knows it's busted but they're dragging their feet on nerfing it, no way of knowing why. Heck it was busted before the big patch. > > > > And as long as the other team uses them, I will too. As a commander, I dislike seeing my people die. It's a game, but you got to take care of you squad. Get angry at them for not taking care so they get better. And advise them to do something else if it's not their cup of tea. > > You're completely missing the point. Dragonbanner is busted and needs serious nerfs. Use them while you can, just don't act like they aren't a problem. People gravitate to what's easiest to use and gets the best results, and dragonbanner is a 'Press 5 to Win' item so of course people are going to abuse them. It's not about it not being people's cup of tea or anything like that, it's that they get tired of a fight being determined by who has more banners. On the issue of banners are overpowered, db being a banner, hence overpowered. I agree. On the issue of acting as they are no problem. I don't act this way. All tiers I play, there's always a way we kill the enemy without banners and the moment we die is because of the banner and so, we use them too simply because fighting a queue with fewer isn't easy. Surprising as it may seem fights require a bit of organizing. On the issue of people getting tired of facing banners. Yes, this is the point I drive to. Anet will act if people play less because of the banners. So, I don't really miss the point. I pointed it clearly so it can be observed thought about by anet and then decide properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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