So... when will holosmith get nerfed?

[miriforst.1290]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> Holo damage is ridiculous like warr damage, but at least you can kite warrs. When I look at my combat log their damage is x6 that skill's base damage so each hit is between 3.5-5K with copious amount of CC to put you on you back. They chew through marauder amulet vit of 21.5K in secs.

 

I mean all holo aside its a glass eat glass world, are you surprised? The same could be said about old static discharge engineer back when.

 

Previously glass thieves and mesmers where the ones deleting other glass cannons from existence, now its holo. And i would argue other glass cannons still have their place and time.

 

[Razor.6392]

FA ele is glass. Holo is maybe reinforced glass or plastic, but not glass.

 

I hope they get nerfed soon. Autostab on corona only procs if they hit something with it, holo leap cd increased to 3 seconds (or damage lowered by 30%) and auto-elixir S deleted.

[Malediktus.9250]

The burst and cc potential of a holo is pretty insane. It indeed needs a nerf

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> FA ele is glass. Holo is maybe reinforced glass or plastic, but not glass.

>

> I hope they get nerfed soon. Autostab on corona only procs if they hit something with it, holo leap cd increased to 3 seconds (or damage lowered by 30%) and auto-elixir S deleted.

 

Pretty apples to oranges comparison. Obviously Holosmith is an A tier package, Core Fresh Air a B tier package but there's fundamental differences in playstyle like how Core Sceptre Ele designed around avoiding damage via superspeed kiting and short CD blinds. Of course vs. aggressive positioning and soaking counterpressure.

 

Let's get one thing straight though, D/P & S/D Thief, Condi Chrono, Spellbreaker, Druid, Holosmith, Power Mirage, in my experience building comps in PvP, these 8 builds make up the "A" "Great" tier where *strong but not required builds operate*.

 

No group will tell you they need a Holosmith, some groups will prefer NOT to play with Holosmith in PvP, and many don't.

 

Until I can say the same about Scourge, Firebrand, and access to portal, I consider Holosmith protected from the nerfhammer.

[Razor.6392]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > FA ele is glass. Holo is maybe reinforced glass or plastic, but not glass.

> >

> > I hope they get nerfed soon. Autostab on corona only procs if they hit something with it, holo leap cd increased to 3 seconds (or damage lowered by 30%) and auto-elixir S deleted.

>

> Pretty apples to oranges comparison. Obviously Holosmith is an A tier package, Core Fresh Air a B tier package but there's fundamental differences in playstyle like how Core Sceptre Ele designed around avoiding damage via superspeed kiting and short CD blinds. Of course vs. aggressive positioning and soaking counterpressure.

>

> Let's get one thing straight though, D/P & S/D Thief, Condi Chrono, Spellbreaker, Druid, Holosmith, Power Mirage, in my experience building comps in PvP, these 8 builds make up the "A" "Great" tier where *strong but not required builds operate*.

>

> No group will tell you they need a Holosmith, some groups will prefer NOT to play with Holosmith in PvP, and many don't.

>

> Until I can say the same about Scourge, Firebrand, and access to portal, I consider Holosmith protected from the nerfhammer.

 

Well obviously, nerfing holo without touching the elite 4 (SB, SC, MI, FB) would be silly.

 

Keeping something overpowered just because it can either keep other overpowered stuff in check or needs the power curve to remain viable... that should never be the answer.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > FA ele is glass. Holo is maybe reinforced glass or plastic, but not glass.

> > >

> > > I hope they get nerfed soon. Autostab on corona only procs if they hit something with it, holo leap cd increased to 3 seconds (or damage lowered by 30%) and auto-elixir S deleted.

> >

> > Pretty apples to oranges comparison. Obviously Holosmith is an A tier package, Core Fresh Air a B tier package but there's fundamental differences in playstyle like how Core Sceptre Ele designed around avoiding damage via superspeed kiting and short CD blinds. Of course vs. aggressive positioning and soaking counterpressure.

> >

> > Let's get one thing straight though, D/P & S/D Thief, Condi Chrono, Spellbreaker, Druid, Holosmith, Power Mirage, in my experience building comps in PvP, these 8 builds make up the "A" "Great" tier where *strong but not required builds operate*.

> >

> > No group will tell you they need a Holosmith, some groups will prefer NOT to play with Holosmith in PvP, and many don't.

> >

> > Until I can say the same about Scourge, Firebrand, and access to portal, I consider Holosmith protected from the nerfhammer.

>

> Well obviously, nerfing holo without touching the elite 4 (SB, SC, MI, FB) would be silly.

>

> Keeping something overpowered just because it can either keep other overpowered stuff in check or needs the power curve to remain viable... that should never be the answer.

 

What is the new benchmark, where is the line drawn where one side OP, the other UP?

 

ArenaNet apparently can only nerf one of the elite 4 spec per quarter, so time until they nerf the S tier and A tier builds, approximately 2.5 years and then we have the next expansion, nice.

 

I say the smart play is to nerf bat the S tier ASAP and start bringing Core builds and broken dumpster trash toward the A tier too.

 

I'm happy where most things in the current A tier are.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Chaith.8256 , cant solo bosses in pve = balanced.

 

That is the benchmark, this is a mmo towards pve players, pvp needs to be easy for them as wee, that's why powercreep makes casual players be more efective sicne its cuts/reduces the gap between players side skills, since all resumes to gimmicks metas easy playable.

So i dont think holosmith will be touched where it needs to be, ANet might change to get some strong build to enforce more of that playstyle than anythign else, since at thier eyes making some builds strong is the same as lead/help players to find the meta.

 

(edit) and also the reason gw2 pvp is know to be awfull.

 

[Chaith.8256]

Holosmith ease vs. reward summed up in 2 monthly tournament statistics:

 

October

Elementalist: 1

Engineer: 5

Guardain: 14

Mesmer: 7

Necro: 18

Ranger: 3

Revenant: 1

Thief: 11

Warrior: 20

 

November

Elementalist: 1

Engineer: 7

Guardain: 21

Mesmer: 12

Necro: 21

Ranger: 11

Revenant: 0

Thief: 11

Warrior: 11

[LUST.7241]

Probably know/versed/saw each of those Engis...

Very, VERY rarely do I see a good wild Engi...

 

I actually like it. Other Engis keep me motivated (only profession I play anyway).

Versing Firebrand, Mirage, Scourge makes me bored...because it is too forgiving on their ends.

[Rezzet.3614]

Auto elixir s is a free kill for anyone that knows it lasts 3 seconds and hugs the engi waiting for it to wear off

[Lighter.5631]

> @Rezzet.3614 said:

> Auto elixir s is a free kill for anyone that knows it lasts 3 seconds and hugs the engi waiting for it to wear off

 

tbh...any one would have dodge available when going out of S.....and rocket boots if u run that..i dont find it being a free kill if you kit properly in S while having your dodge/rocket boot going out of S..unless the chaser is a thief or something..

[Chaith.8256]

> @Lighter.5631 said:

> > @Rezzet.3614 said:

> > Auto elixir s is a free kill for anyone that knows it lasts 3 seconds and hugs the engi waiting for it to wear off

>

> tbh...any one would have dodge available when going out of S.....and rocket boots if u run that..i dont find it being a free kill if you kit properly in S while having your dodge/rocket boot going out of S..unless the chaser is a thief or something..

 

Rocket boots is not a given, many try and use dodge roll mines as a deterrent.

[Rezzet.3614]

Rocket boots is a leap with no evade so if your elixir s trait procs and your enemy is attacking you, you will get hit and die beven if you use rocket boot, i ve personally raged from this incident about 7 times before i got rid of the trait, save an immobilize for after engi goes into elixir s ,

 

rocket boots breaks immobilize on activation so you can cancel the leap midway with cc

[Chaith.8256]

Observe how OP Holosmith is, guys:

 

www.twitch.tv/videos/204238817

 

 

1:39:00 watch the monthly finals from Zan's point of view

 

- 1:40:00 Zan pushes Druid far at start, Sind +1's far and Zan full caps while Druid escapes.

- 1:42:00 Zan pushes SB at home, Zan pressures enemy SB, but enemy Druid comes and tags in. Sind +1's enemy Druid and Zan full caps while Druid escapes.

- 1:43:00 Enemy Mesmer decaps Zan while he's camping home, coz' stealth and blinks. Sind +1's the Mesmer, Zan full caps, while Mesmer places portal and runs.

- 1:43:30 Zan camping portal on home, *Mesmer ports back with Druid, and Zan is gone through 2 elixir S's and in downstate in 16 seconds, can't disengage.* On respawn.

- 1:44:30 On respawn Zan and Misha push unwinnable 2v2 mid, portal back to home and 3v1 (Holo, Mirage, Daredevil vs. Druid) who just escapes and continues to contest node.

- 1:46:30 Zan pushes SB at far, plays too aggressively, and is *forced to retreat in 23 seconds.*

- 1:47:00 From here onward, stalemated at bottom buff by Druid.

 

What about Holosmith used as a side-node fashion like this is OP? Holo has a slightly favorable matchup vs. glassy Condi Mirage, but they can just stealth decap or portal ditch and smash the Holo at their leisure later, to which the Holo is dead in 16 seconds and can't escape, even though it was just a Druid +1ing. Holo can very easily get smashed by SB 1v1, probably a fair match-up except the Holo needs to outplay for longer than SB does. Holo vs. Druid seems pretty long and stale. All the while the Holo incredibly easier to kill than Druid, Spellbreaker, and Mirage when outnumbered.

 

Obviously Zan has 170+ games this season with Explosives Engi, plays every day and knows how to use it well. Sind was able to give Zan multiple full caps by forcing his opponents to retreat, but working together never securing a kill, and therefore unable to keep the other side of the map capped. That does not count as value derived from Holosmith. Mirage, SB and Druid are survivable AF.

 

Holosmith as a side node player has to work extremely hard and be EXTREMELY skilled to pull their own weight or get value for team by beating Mesmers, Druids, and SB's. I'd say that Holosmith in the monthly final provided negative value by itself - gets decapped due to low mobility, dies in 16 seconds to Mesmer & Druid, forced to retreat from SB in 23 seconds, overall receiving 0 kills and 1 death. Anyone who thinks this specialization is OP DAMAGE clearly has no appreciation for the risk involved.

[Rezzet.3614]

Mesmer deals twice holo damage while invulnerable and without self damage but clearly engi is the one op

What are you,Casual?

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @Rezzet.3614 said:

> Mesmer deals twice holo damage while invulnerable and without self damage but clearly engi is the one op

> What are you,Casual?

 

You haven't gotten the memo yet? Lol

 

All you people who still only plays GW2 are casuals. At least when compared to the rest of the gaming communities.

 

Also you guys are in large very crappy gamers, that rely on GW2's cheese to get EGO boosts from. At least when compared to the rest of the gaming communities. That's why every expansion ANet gives yall more broken easymode classes and whatnot. And yall still exclusively plays this game and no other MMO. Those other MMOs just remains yall how crappy of gamers you guys are. :trollface:

[Crinn.7864]

Why does Holosmith need to be nerfed? It's got tells, and it's squishy.

[Rezzet.3614]

This thread is a joke thread

[Morwath.9817]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Why does Holosmith need to be nerfed? It's got tells, and it's squishy.

 

It's flashy, do we need any other reasons? Quaggan doesn't like flashy things!

[Razor.6392]

Other specs being ridiculously overpowered doesn't mean holo is fine lol.

[Kaga.7629]

My main issue with holos ( and holospikes in general) is that it's just too easy to setup a 20K spike by putting on all those layers of damage + using the skills which are overtuned to do stupid amounts of damage in so short a time.

 

A stealth holospike has become as ridiculous ( if not more ) than mesmer ultrazerk superclonepops. And that's a problem.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Kaga.7629 said:

> My main issue with holos ( and holospikes in general) is that it's just too easy to setup a 20K spike by putting on all those layers of damage + using the skills which are overtuned to do stupid amounts of damage in so short a time.

>

> A stealth holospike has become as ridiculous ( if not more ) than mesmer ultrazerk superclonepops. And that's a problem.

 

Hmm, have to say I don't know what you're talking about, Holosmith can certainly put down 20k damage but that'd be over 4-8 seconds of chopping away via straightforward attacks. Stunbreak the Shockwave/Overcharged Shot and dodge, it won't kill you in the blink of an eye like a gimmick Power Shatter or gimmick Deadeye.

[Razor.6392]

It's not as instant, but it's a huge threat at all times.

 

Aside from shockwave, there's not a single photon skill that hits less than 4k lol. A pulsing corona into blitz into leap with quickness is surely over 18k health in 1.5 seconds.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> It's not as instant, but it's a huge threat at all times.

>

> Aside from shockwave, there's not a single photon skill that hits less than 4k lol. A pulsing corona into blitz into leap with quickness is surely over 18k health in 1.5 seconds.

 

That's like my core Warrior, Berserker Stance, Eviscerate, into quickness sigil'd 100 Blades, *they never dodge in time* :trollface:

 

I think the majority of players don't have any problem dealing with Holosmith Photon Forge damage, rather the Minesweeper build's dodge damage. If ArenaNet ever nerfs the entire top half of PvP builds, I suspect they would target Vent Exhaust for a damage shave as it already gives *really great* heat management with a dodge focused build.

[Zintrothen.1056]

Honestly, the only real thing that needs nerfing is actually an engi trait. The passive invuln. And that goes for all passive procs on all professions. Passive procs are so terrible for any game. You can play as well as you want against an engi, warrior or whatever else, and if they ever make a mistake, no worries! You'll just shrink and run away. Defy Pain is terrible too. Those are the two worst ones, but there are other traits across all professions that have their problems.