Let's talk about design instead of balance!

[KrisHQ.4719]

Most threads on the forum and reddit are about balance and people shouting for nerfs. While this is certainly important, I don't feel it really addresses some of the major problems with GW2's PVP. Therefore, keep in mind that balance (number tweaks) would necessarily have to follow some of the changes discussed here.

 

So what do I mean by "design"?

I think it's easiest to illustrate it with examples:

 

1. Traps (Bad)

In general traps are bad design. They have no real counterplay and require no thought or skill to use. Traps could potentially work as a concept, but in GW2 traps are REALLY badly designed. Let's look at guardian traps, which I believe to be the worst.

Guardian traps deal high amounts of physical damage (some of them), most give some kind of movement-impairing condition and they can be traited to inflict slow as well.

Furthermore the traps grant boons. And here we have our first problem.

Why do they have to do all of these? This decision makes the design really blurry. What are traps supposed to do?

Second problem with traps is the way the cooldown is designed. Right now, the cooldown begins when the trap is placed. This promotes a playstyle, where placing the traps on a node is the best option. This reasoning is straight forward. By the time you have to engage in a fight, your traps will already be recharged so you can spam them again. Effectively this means that you often get a double use of your traps. This is ridiculous and promotes stale gameplay where people just stand and wait on a node, you can't really do anything about it.

A solution would simply be to initiate the cooldown recharge when the trap triggers. However, naturally this leaves a problem: If I wrongly place a trap, how do I "cancel" it?

A simple solution to this problem would be to give the traps a cancel skill that would remove it but either give it a full or reduced cooldown. This way you actually have to think about your trap placement and when to use them. It would punish the trap-spam we currently see.

 

2. Reaper's Shroud (Good)

Naturally you may wonder then: what is good design?

One example, which I think covers a lot of aspects is the design of Reaper's Shroud.

Why is it good? Because of the following reasons:

 

- It is well telegraphed, easy to spot even in teamfights

- It is a core feature of the class. It has a high impact. There is a clear distinction between being in the shroud and not.

- While being rewarding, it is also punishing. There is a drawback to using it which is that you can't use your utilities. This means that spamming it is not the best solution.

- The mechanic requires some kind of build up or management, in this case Life Force. Thus, this makes it a mechanic to play around.

 

One point that I would really like to highlight is the fact that it cancels out the use of utility skills. This is extremely important.

As mentioned this means that entering Reaper's Shroud has a huge drawback, but of course also a benefit. Also, since it limits the amount of skills available, it severely reduces the amount of spam, making the class easy to understand and play against. This brings me to my third and final point.

 

3. Too much spam

Most bad designs promote spam. The skill-inflation in GW2 is insane. With every expansion classes have gotten even more skills readily at hand.

Firebrand: 15 extra skills. Holosmith: 5 extra skills. Even elementalist received additional skills.

This is not necessarily only bad, but it needs to be done in a way where the extra skills come with a cost. For Reaper this is the inability to use utility skills. Imo this is a really good choice and should probably be the norm for all "additional" skillbars. Of course, as I stated in the beginning, this would require number balancing.

But think about it. Holosmith receives "Photon Forge", an additional skillbar with 5 new and powerful skills. There is even some energy managment connected to it (heat). This is awesome. However, Holosmiths can still easily access all their utility skills. It would have been much better to follow the Reaper-concept, where utility skills are inaccessible in this form. It would heavily enforce thoughtful play and reduce skill-spam. The loss of utilities can be accounted for by e.g. granting a massive barrier, since Reaper's Shroud also has an "extra healthbar" to compensate (as pointed out by a comment). For Firebrand it's the same story. Give the tomes some powerful skills, but give them a drawback as well.

Right now Tomes are something you flip through, you spam 5-1 and that's it. No drawback, no counterplay.

 

There are countless other examples one could bring up, but I hope these outline the general intention well enough. Feel free to comment with your suggestions of good and/or bad design, and let me know if you agree or I'm just "a freaking noob that wants DH or Holo nerfs".

 

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so, nerf traps and holo? :-D

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> so, nerf traps and holo? :-D

 

You got it, haha!

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"KrisHQ.4719" said:

> Most threads on the forum and reddit are about balance and people shouting for nerfs. While this is certainly important, I don't feel it really addresses some of the major problems with GW2's PVP. Therefore, keep in mind that balance (number tweaks) would necessarily have to follow some of the changes discussed here.

>

> So what do I mean by "design"?

> I think it's easiest to illustrate it with examples:

>

> 1. Traps (Bad)

> In general traps are bad design. They have no real counterplay and require no thought or skill to use. Traps could potentially work as a concept, but in GW2 traps are REALLY badly designed. Let's look at guardian traps, which I believe to be the worst.

> Guardian traps deal high amounts of physical damage (some of them), most give some kind of movement-impairing condition and they can be traited to inflict slow as well.

> Furthermore the traps grant boons. And here we have our first problem.

> Why do they have to do all of these? This decision makes the design really blurry. What are traps supposed to do?

> Second problem with traps is the way the cooldown is designed. Right now, the cooldown begins when the trap is placed. This promotes a playstyle, where placing the traps on a node is the best option. This reasoning is straight forward. By the time you have to engage in a fight, you traps will already be recharged so you can spam them again. Effectively this means that you often get a double use of your traps. This is ridiculous and promotes stale gameplay where people just stand and wait on a node, you can't really do anything about it.

> A solution would simply be to initiate the cooldown recharge when the trap triggers. However, naturally this leaves a problem: If I wrongly place a trap, how do I "cancel" it?

> A simple solution to this problem would be to give the traps a cancel skill that would remove it but either give it a full or reduced cooldown. This way you actually have to think about your trap placement and when to use them. It would punish the trap-spam we currently see.

>

> 2. Reaper's Shroud (Good)

> Naturally you may wonder then: what is good design?

> One example, which I think covers a lot of aspects is the design of Reaper's Shroud.

> Why is it good? Because because of the following reasons:

>

> - It is well telegraphed, easy to spot even in teamfights

> - It is a core feature of the class. It has a high impact. There is a clear distinction between being in the shroud and not.

> - While being rewarding, it is also punishing. There is a drawback to using it which is that you can't use your utilities. This means that spamming it is not the best solution.

> - The mechanic requires some kind of build up or management, in this case Life Force. Thus, this makes it a mechanic to play around.

>

> One point that I would really like to highlight is the fact that it cancels out the use of utility skills. This is extremely important.

> As mentioned this means that entering Reaper's Shroud has a huge drawback, but of course also a benefit. Also, since it limits the amount of skills available, it severely reduces the amount of spam, making the class easy to understand and play against. This brings me to my third and final point.

>

> 3. Too much spam

> Most bad designs promote spam. The skill-inflation in GW2 is insane. With every expansion classes have gotten even more skills readily at hand.

> Firebrand: 15 extra skills. Holosmith: 5 extra skills. Even elementalist received additional skills.

> This is not necessarily only bad, but it needs to be done in a way where the extra skills come with a cost. For Reaper this is the inability to use utility skills. Imo this is a really good choice and should probably be the norm for all "additional" skillbars. Of course, as I stated in the beginning, this would require number balancing.

> But think about it. Holosmith receives "Photon Forge", an additional skillbar with 5 new and powerful skills. There is even some energy managment connected to it (heat). This is awesome. However, Holosmiths can still easily access all their utility skills. It would have been much better to follow the Reaper-concept, where utility skills are inaccessible in this form. It would heavily enforce thoughtful play and reduce skill-spam. For Firebrand it's the same story. Give the tomes some powerful skills, but give them a drawback as well.

> Right now Tomes are something you flip through, you spam 5-1 and that's it. No drawback, no counterplay.

>

> There are countless other examples one could bring up, but I hope these outline the general intention well enough. Feel free to comment with your suggestions of good and/or bad design, and let me know if you agree or I'm just "a freaking noob that wants DH or Holo nerfs".

>

>

 

**+1**

 

Bad Design promotes unhealthy Toxic experience, Good Design promotes healthy competitive experiences. It has always been the source of balance and will always be

 

'Trying to balance difficulty and fairness can be tricky, but it really is quite simple. To make a game hard but fair is to ensure the rules of the world are strict and apply to everything and everyone.'

 

 

[Ovark.2514]

Very true. Design is way more important than balance the vast majority of the time imo. I think it's funny you keep referring to reapers shroud when you could just as easily say core necro shroud.

[Allarius.5670]

Unfortunately the design and balance teams are not one in the same and have different goals and agendas.

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> I think it's funny you keep referring to reapers shroud when you could just as easily say core necro shroud.

 

True! But I feel Reaper's Shroud is in a better state, since Core Shroud feels like a health sponge or second health bar more than anything, especially on condition builds.

It doesn't hold the same impact value as Reaper's Shroud, although the base mechanics are the same. Thus, the point is more clearly illustrated with Reaper I believe.

[UNOwen.7132]

The reason Engineers can still access their utility skills is because of kits. They dont have a weaponswap, so to access a second weapon, they have kits, and if you couldnt do so in holoforge, thatd cause issues. Also, Reaper Shroud gives you *massive* survivability, while Holoforge doesnt give you any. If it took away access from utility skills, the build might well become terrible.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> If it took away access from utility skills, the build might well become terrible.

 

They can give photon forge a defensive skill instead, all kits have at least 1 defensive skill.

[Exedore.6320]

Almost all the elite specs were poorly designed. They were "Hey this sounds cool!" ideas which didn't work that well in implementation, or weren't iterated enough during development to have something mechanically sound. In order to not have them fail miserably at expansion launch, the numbers were heavily buffed to make them seem fun. This is especially true for HoT elite specs. This is why DH traps have boons on them - even with inflated damage, the traps felt underwhelming.

 

A common theme with those elite specs are the lack of trade-offs; they're generally straight buffs to the base, which makes it hard to have core be viable without making the elite spec too strong. Another theme is that the weapon choice and functionality doesn't work well with the additional mechanics or the core gameplay. However, fixing that many design mistakes all at once is an insurmountable task. They'll have to fixed incrementally, and coming up with a good design is a creative process - it's not a matter of running numbers through a spreadsheet or simulation.

 

 

Here's a few examples of what went wrong:

**Holosmith**

Holo-mode is basically a super-powered kit, but only replaces a relatively useless skill slot from core engineer. Having an extremely strong and versatile kit frees up the engineer from taking other kits. It also provides some additional utility skills which are relatively weak for the core engineer. I would address this by scrapping Prime Light Beam altogether and making holo-mode the elite skill with no F5.

 

**Dragonhunter**

This elite spec design never made sense to me. You have traps which are basically melee or close to it, but a longbow with skills which function best at long ranges. Your F1 is designed for mid-range pulling into melee (originally it lacked the pull), and F2 seems to want to close gaps. If the spec had a weapon kit for mid-range kiting, it would have far better synergy with traps.

 

**Chronomancer**

The original problem is that core mesmer tends to be a burst-oriented spec. You kite/evade while generating clones then use a shatter for a burst of something. When you add a reset to that, you get double the burst. It should be pretty obvious why that's a problem. Removing Illusionary Persona (mesmer counts as a clone for shatters) was a way to cut down on the burst - but it also makes the class a bit more frustrating to play.

 

**Druid**

It's supposed to be support through direct healing. But it has a sizeable build-up before you can use it, and the design drives you toward staying in the healing mode until it runs out. The problem is that outside of PvE raids where you know ahead of time when the burst of healing is needed, this design doesn't work. Healing in general needs to be have a reactive design with a couple seconds notice at best. And in most cases, you only need a short amount of time with that burst of healing to stabilize or recover the situation. Basically, the builder-spender design of Celestial Avatar doesn't work for healing. But it exists for a reason: if you gave ranger - an evade and kiting heavy, damage oriented class - a mostly on-demand heal, it would be far too powerful.

 

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > If it took away access from utility skills, the build might well become terrible.

>

> They can give photon forge a defensive skill instead, all kits have at least 1 defensive skill.

 

One could argue that Corona Burst effectively is that, but my point was more that Reaper Shroud comes with another entire healthbar, and one that takes reduced damage at that. Holoforge doesnt.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> One could argue that Corona Burst effectively is that, but my point was more that Reaper Shroud comes with another entire healthbar, and one that takes reduced damage at that. Holoforge doesnt.

 

Nah I meant evade, block, blind, aegis etc

 

Shroud's damage reduction should be reduced tbh.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> Almost all the elite specs were poorly designed. They were "Hey this sounds cool!" ideas which didn't work that well in implementation, or weren't iterated enough during development to have something mechanically sound. In order to not have them fail miserably at expansion launch, the numbers were heavily buffed to make them seem fun. This is especially true for HoT elite specs. This is why DH traps have boons on them - even with inflated damage, the traps felt underwhelming.

>

> A common theme with those elite specs are the lack of trade-offs; they're generally straight buffs to the base, which makes it hard to have core be viable without making the elite spec too strong. Another theme is that the weapon choice and functionality doesn't work well with the additional mechanics or the core gameplay. However, fixing that many design mistakes all at once is an insurmountable task. They'll have to fixed incrementally, and coming up with a good design is a creative process - it's not a matter of running numbers through a spreadsheet or simulation.

>

>

> Here's a few examples of what went wrong:

> **Holosmith**

> Holo-mode is basically a super-powered kit, but only replaces a relatively useless skill slot from core engineer. Having an extremely strong and versatile kit frees up the engineer from taking other kits. It also provides some additional utility skills which are relatively weak for the core engineer. I would address this by scrapping Prime Light Beam altogether and making holo-mode the elite skill with no F5.

>

 

Hard pass. Prime Light Beam is way too awesome to just scrap. It just needs to be buffed up to be useable again. Id slso heavily disagree with F5 being "relatively useless". Both Toss Elixir X, and Supply Drop are incredible skills. Holosmiths biggest advantage is giving Engineer an actually good mainhand weapon for power builds, so that they can use shield.

 

> **Dragonhunter**

> This elite spec design never made sense to me. You have traps which are basically melee or close to it, but a longbow with skills which function best at long ranges. Your F1 is designed for mid-range pulling into melee (originally it lacked the pull), and F2 seems to want to close gaps. If the spec had a weapon kit for mid-range kiting, it would have far better synergy with traps.

>

 

I guess the idea is that the traps are there to hinder the enemy when they get to you, and then the dash and pull are to deal with stragglers trying to run away. But it is a bit weird.

 

> **Chronomancer**

> The original problem is that core mesmer tends to be a burst-oriented spec. You kite/evade while generating clones then use a shatter for a burst of something. When you add a reset to that, you get double the burst. It should be pretty obvious why that's a problem. Removing Illusionary Persona (mesmer counts as a clone for shatters) was a way to cut down on the burst - but it also makes the class a bit more frustrating to play.

>

 

Illusionary Persona was just baked into the shatters baseline. The Mesmer always counts as a clone for them, without the need to use any particular trait.

 

> **Druid**

> It's supposed to be support through direct healing. But it has a sizeable build-up before you can use it, and the design drives you toward staying in the healing mode until it runs out. The problem is that outside of PvE raids where you know ahead of time when the burst of healing is needed, this design doesn't work. Healing in general needs to be have a reactive design with a couple seconds notice at best. And in most cases, you only need a short amount of time with that burst of healing to stabilize or recover the situation. Basically, the builder-spender design of Celestial Avatar doesn't work for healing. But it exists for a reason: if you gave ranger - an evade and kiting heavy, damage oriented class - a mostly on-demand heal, it would be far too powerful.

>

>

 

Im not sure it doesnt work conceptually, build-up for big swingy skills is a thing a few classes do. It just seems Druid isnt good enough at it compared to less restricted classes like Tempest.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > One could argue that Corona Burst effectively is that, but my point was more that Reaper Shroud comes with another entire healthbar, and one that takes reduced damage at that. Holoforge doesnt.

>

> Nah I meant evade, block, blind, aegis etc

>

 

Well, I suppose you could do that (skill 2 seems the obvious target for a possible evade, but then it would be way too good, and skill 3 could have an AoE blind ,but that wouldnt suffice tbh), I just dont think it would be enough.

 

> Shroud's damage reduction should be reduced tbh.

 

Perhaps, but Im not sure. Reaper doesnt really seem broken rn.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> Well, I suppose you could do that (skill 2 seems the obvious target for a possible evade, but then it would be way too good, and skill 3 could have an AoE blind ,but that wouldnt suffice tbh), I just dont think it would be enough.

 

4 might block projectiles for 3/4s and 5 could evade for 1/2s tbh, but I want 2 to be longer cd and auto damage to be reduced a lot

 

> > Shroud's damage reduction should be reduced tbh.

>

> Perhaps, but Im not sure. Reaper doesnt really seem broken rn.

It's not just a "now" issue.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > Well, I suppose you could do that (skill 2 seems the obvious target for a possible evade, but then it would be way too good, and skill 3 could have an AoE blind ,but that wouldnt suffice tbh), I just dont think it would be enough.

>

> 4 might block projectiles for 3/4s and 5 could evade for 1/2s tbh, but I want 2 to be longer cd and auto damage to be reduced a lot

>

 

Id say itd be a bit weird if an unload clone suddenly had projectile denial, and 5 evading wouldnt make that much of a difference. Also not sure if you can even nerf the autos by a lot, because at some point there is just no reason to even go into photon forge other than to activate skill 3 and skill 5. Skill 4 is kinda weak rn, and skill 2 is best for mobility.

 

> > > Shroud's damage reduction should be reduced tbh.

> >

> > Perhaps, but Im not sure. Reaper doesnt really seem broken rn.

> It's not just a "now" issue.

 

Well, youd need to compensate reaper somehow, either with more survivability elsewhere, or more mobility to be able to catch up to people more easily.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> Id say itd be a bit weird if an unload clone suddenly had projectile denial,

It gives that skill a bigger reason to be used.

 

> and 5 evading wouldnt make that much of a difference

It won't be rupted

 

> Also not sure if you can even nerf the autos by a lot, because at some point there is just no reason to even go into photon forge other than to activate skill 3 and skill 5. Skill 4 is kinda weak rn, and skill 2 is best for mobility.

"A lot" in my mind is 25%.

 

> Well, youd need to compensate reaper somehow, either with more survivability elsewhere, or more mobility to be able to catch up to people more easily.

 

2nd one

I feel like it's too cheap to just WALK AWAY from shroud

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > Id say itd be a bit weird if an unload clone suddenly had projectile denial,

> It gives that skill a bigger reason to be used.

>

 

I suppose, its just thematically wack.

 

> > and 5 evading wouldnt make that much of a difference

> It won't be rupted

>

 

You usually hit it with Burst, so you got stab for that anyway.

 

> > Also not sure if you can even nerf the autos by a lot, because at some point there is just no reason to even go into photon forge other than to activate skill 3 and skill 5. Skill 4 is kinda weak rn, and skill 2 is best for mobility.

> "A lot" in my mind is 25%.

>

 

Thats what I mean. If you nerf the damage by 25%, regular sword just hits quite a bit harder, and you would enter forge, activate skill 3 and 5, then immediately exit forge and not enter it again until those 2 skills are up. You would *never* auto in it.

 

> > Well, youd need to compensate reaper somehow, either with more survivability elsewhere, or more mobility to be able to catch up to people more easily.

>

> 2nd one

> I feel like it's too cheap to just WALK AWAY from shroud

 

Perhaps, but Iunno. Its just kinda fitting for the theme right now that it has a lack of mobility in exchange for being a horrible unkillable juggernaut.

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > If it took away access from utility skills, the build might well become terrible.

> >

> > They can give photon forge a defensive skill instead, all kits have at least 1 defensive skill.

>

> One could argue that Corona Burst effectively is that, but my point was more that Reaper Shroud comes with another entire healthbar, and one that takes reduced damage at that. Holoforge doesnt.

 

That's a really good point, but as I stated in the beginning, these design changes would necessarily have to go hand in hand with balance.

They were balanced with the current design in mind, so heavily changing this would necessarily require rebalance. Thus you could alter Photon Forge to have a more defensive option or simply grant a large barrier upon entering. There are a few solutions to this problem, which are not hard to implement. The important thing is to introduce some kind of trade-off to reduce spam and promote thoughtful play!

 

The same problem would apply for warrior's berserk mode. Here a large life-leech or "heal a percentage of damage given" could be a permanent buff to compensate for the loss of utility and elite skills. For Firebrand the tomes could provide some kind of unique bonus per tome, damage reduction, increased outgoing heal or similar. Of course, these are just ideas, so there are probably even better solutions out there.

[Svez Poizon XD.5268]

I am renegade main and i would love to see renegade design rework. Shortbow 2 and 3 as start then F-spells then some summons(update).

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said:

> I am renegade main and i would love to see renegade design rework. Shortbow 2 and 3 as start then F-spells then some summons(update).

 

I definitely think Renegade utilities could use a rework. They suffer the same blurry design as traps, they do too much and have no drawback. As with traps and other skills, this promotes spam, which is unhealthy.

I'd love to see some of them reworked into channeling abilities and others given an increased cast time. Furthermore, I think the duration for the non-channeling abilities should be lengthened. In both cases I'd naturally buff the impact of the skills, extend the duration of the daze (or make it a stun) and increase the dmg on damaging skills.

 

A quick rework of "Darkrazor's Daring" (Daze-skill):

Channel Kus Darkrazor to disrupt your enemies. Keep the energy cost, increase the cooldown.

Stun enemies in an area (1½ second)

Number of targets: 5

Duration: 6 seconds

Pulses: 3

Radius: 360

Range: 600

 

May be too weak, may be too strong, so testing and further balancing would once again be vital. However, the design here is much more clear-cut. It's an extremely powerful AoE CC, which is easy to spot and react to. The skill now also has a rather large drawback. It's channeled, which means you can't spam the other summons at the same time and you can get interrupted. (This is very similar to Druid's "Glyph of The Stars", which is a really underrated and well designed skill imo).

Does the skill now suck in duels? Yes it does. Should it? Yes, it's a huge AoE field, it should be suited for teamfights, not duels.

But combo this skill by using a damaging summon (a reworked Icerazor's Ire) right before and it becomes a powerful determiner in teamfights, which opponents and allies have to react to - and importantly: CAN react to.

 

The way Renegade utilities are designed now, you can spam at least three huge fields with random effects and conditions, which you cannot account for and there is no drawback other than their energy cost. Even the cooldown is extremely low.

[Svez Poizon XD.5268]

I would say that renegade summons are very counterable. Problem with their design is their visuals/animations. About Darkrazor darring, i think it is good one but the only change it could get is its damage reduced like all other CC spells close to 0 damage. It pulses daze but same summon can be instantly interupted which results into no effect. About renegade's shortbow 2: arrows misses if target just walks, very long cast time for very weak spell.

Shortbow 3 is just bad design for pvp, shooting 7 arrows that merge at the max range end, being 900 range distant, having target to not move but also aiming is just very bad in pvp.

F3 citadel bombardment, most of its rockets do not hit target, it has very high energy cost and its cast time is too long but as well animation.

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said:

> I would say that renegade summons are very counterable. Problem with their design is their visuals/animations. About Darkrazor darring, i think it is good one but the only change it could get is its damage reduced like all other CC spells close to 0 damage. It pulses daze but same summon can be instantly interupted which results into no effect. About renegade's shortbow 2: arrows misses if target just walks, very long cast time for very weak spell.

> Shortbow 3 is just bad design for pvp, shooting 7 arrows that merge at the max range end, being 900 range distant, having target to not move but also aiming is just very bad in pvp.

> F3 citadel bombardment, most of its rockets do not hit target, it has very high energy cost and its cast time is too long but as well animation.

 

Good points. To me, one of the biggest problem with not reworking the summons, but just balancing them is their cooldown.

Right now it doesn't really matter if they get interrupted, because the cooldown is 12 seconds. So the best you can do as Renegade is literally to spam the summons whenever they are available (to a large degree). This could be fixed by increasing the cooldowns severely, like from 12 to 30 seconds, but that would be a huge nerf without any added benefits.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"KrisHQ.4719" said:

> 2. Reaper's Shroud (Good)

 

I stoped here.

 

The shroud whether it's DS or RS is bad design. They are defensive stances in nature yet also happen to be the main damage/burst source of the necromancer. That shouldn't be a thing, as a design it is a toxic one. If you want something that's well designed in the game, I'd say that warrior's shield is the best candidate, both _shield stance_ and _shield bash_ are well balanced skills.

[KrisHQ.4719]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"KrisHQ.4719" said:

> > 2. Reaper's Shroud (Good)

>

> I stoped here.

>

> The shroud whether it's DS or RS is bad design. They are defensive stances in nature yet also happen to be the main damage/burst source of the necromancer. That shouldn't be a thing, as a design it is a toxic one. If you want something that's well designed in the game, I'd say that warrior's shield is the best candidate, both _shield stance_ and _shield bash_ are well balanced skills.

 

Reaper's Shroud is not designed to be a defensive stance, quite the opposite, which makes it work better than Core Shroud.

However, there will of course always be different preferences in terms of how the game should play!