Making Scourge Heavy Support in PVE

[wizkid.4283]

i had a thought about how i would like to improve the necro's support.... (Raid perspective)

I do agree with some of the suggestions about having barriers affected by concentration, that makes you sacrifice damage for support. and that's a good thing imo.

however i do not agree with adding another unique buff, that will only add to the problem. and i think the game needs less of it.

 

what i would suggest is to add a function to the barriers so that they allow unique buffs to be copied... (lets say with the GM trait)

how it would work is:

* when you give someone a barrier that has a unique buff (lets say Spotter). that spotter buff is then applied to all other allies also affected by your barrier. the buff lasts

the duration of that barrier.

 

it will not affect boons, so you still need classes for that job.

but what that can do is to free up the group composition a little. you are still going to bring the WAY to OP druid/cPS/chrono. But it can free up some spots in the second group. if your chrono #2 is tiered of playing chrono because no one else bothers to gear one up, replace him with some guardian main who wants to try a quickness build. alacrity is provided by chrono #1, and copied to the second group via barrier...

 

Pro's:

* Free's up the composition from the mandatory 2x3 supp + 2 dps.

* no need to add yet another unique buff to the game to be able to contribute to the group via support.

* you still need to bring what ever class that can provide the unique buffs you want, so it wont throw anything else out the window

 

Cons:

* barriers need to last longer, ideally have it be affected by concentration so that you have to specc for this to work.

* Up-time on these buffs copied by barrier may not be as good as in group #1, maybe that is the compensation for bringing more dps specs?

* your noob friend that got carried by Mesmer distorts will face tank every hit from the boss and loose all his barrier = no buffs.

* that same friend decides to pick flowers on the other side of the arena. no barrier = no buffs.

 

Maybe this this wont work in practice, instead have the buffs copied a set amount of seconds every tome you provide the barrier, but the copy functions the same way...

this is just some thoughts i had about how you can support in a unique way, without adding more stupid unique buffs...

 

i would like to hear you'r thoughts on this. to OP? to shit?

(keep the salt to a minimum plz, :))

[maxwelgm.4315]

I'm not sure this discussion is going to be profitable. As one of the people above said, Scourge _does_ have support, plenty of it in fact, so much that you can mitigate damage so fast in Fractals so as to not require a Tempest healer in CMs (your group still can't sit on damage of course). Problem is, this is _defensive_ support, and defensive support in the form of barrier is *very underwhelming* in GW2 PvE (it _was_ very useful back in GW1 but certainly not here).

 

Whenever you think of having more HP, consider that HP is hardly the problem in any form of boss or enemy whatsoever. The problem is always being able to attack through a certain mechanic that knocks you down, or blinds you, or lifts you up, or tick so fast that barrier wouldn't matter anyway. Unless Anet develops a raid, fractal or bounty that specifically requires the barrier, then just about *any* other defensive support skill such as Distortion, is better than putting barriers up. Having stability + being healed is better than having a barrier because you can keep attacking. Having a reflect up and healing is better than having a barrier because you know the healing can keep up longer and so you can keep up attacking. Even being overhealed by a druid is better than having a barrier because you know you'll be healed faster than a centaur runs as long as you can dodge key attacks. As long as Scourge is _only_ barrier-based and has no *offensive* support *or* more damage, this is not going anywhere. And as others believe, the problem with Necro damage lies in core necro, not otherwise.

[reikken.4961]

eh, you only need 1 warrior in a group. Banners affect 10 people. 1 warrior gives might to 5 people and can take both banners, and a scourge can give might to the other 5. Scourge replacing a warrior isn't fighting against banners, it's fighting against EA and the warrior's missing utility skill.

[Swagg.9236]

> @Maunzi.3764 said:

 

> 1. Barrier gets an increased duration if you attribute for it. Concentration would be a good fit, as would vitality

> 2. New Trait: Barriers apply a damage buff while they last to anyone they are applied to [PVE Only]

> 3. New Trait in a core necro line: Skills with boon corruption do not corrupt boons any longer. Instead, they apply a [take X% more damage] debuff for 10 seconds. [THIS WOULD BE A CORE NECRO BUFF]

 

The last one in particular is a nice idea. Here are some possibilities for discussion starters based on your suggestions:

 

>!NAME1

>!Recharge: 1s

>!* When you grant barrier to an ally, you also grant NAME1 (effect stacks up to 5 times).

>!* NAME1 (8s): +60 Power, +60,Condition Damage

 

>!NAME2

>!* Corrupting a boon on a foe inflicts damage. If you would corrupt a boon on a foe that has no boons to corrupt, you instead inflict NAME2 (effect stacks up to 10 times).

>!* Boon Corrupt Damage: (1.5)

>!* NAME2 (10s) 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage

>!PvP version of the boon corrupt damage has a modifier of (0.3) and an internal cool down per target of 1s.

 

>!Sand Savant

>!* In addition to this trait's current effects, Shade skills no longer trigger a PBAoE effect at the user's location (only the Sand Shade itself will apply Shade skill effects) and the total affected target count for the Greater Shade will be raised from 5 to 10. Now also grants +10% outgoing damage to allies within a Sand Shade's AoE (similar to how banners apply their bonuses).

 

 

[Swiftwynd.1685]

> @Axl.8924 said:

> Interesting.

>

> So do you guys think then that a support scourge necro is viable as a support raid team? what about for high level fractals?

 

It works in Raids, its one of my favorite builds.

 

The group "anchoring" it provides on the harder fights, like Mathias and Sloth, is fantastic because:

 

* Constant heal over time, wide area (600 radius)

* 25 Might Stacking from the Healer Role

* Long Lasting Regenerations from staff 2 (If Minstrels full build with Leadership)

* 5-target AoE revive - pull in to get people instantly back into the fight if downed.

* Over-healing of barrier can soften the blow of attacks more frequently than a Chrono can Distort, so they complement each other. You can perma maintain full barrier on group if you have Alacrity up time. You stagger it with Heal - F1 as it begins to Decay, F3 as it begins to Decay, F1, F3, and then another F1 eventually or the Heal is back up. By staggering it like this, you give yourself a LARGE window of "well i know the BIG HIT is coming soon im going to prep for it.)

* Best group condition cleansing in the game. Keeping Chill and Poison off people in Mathias is a very large indirect damage contribution, and saving lives on a missed Distortion during Sloth's shake is fabulous. Can also convert the Fear into Stability.

 

Less useful, but the in combat Sand Swell Portal is actually SUPER useful for coordinated groups on Mathias, getting people back from dropping off the corruption at the well is a huge damage boost AND makes them less likely to get downed by ranged, and keeps mathias more stationary in the middle as he likes to run after the furthest person.

 

It also brings great break bar potential with:

 

F4 Fear

Staff 5 Fear

Warhorn 4

Flesh Golem Elite's charge.

 

 

[Swiftwynd.1685]

Duplicate post meh.

[Ashyri.5426]

Let's be honest: necro support is nonsense, the whole class is utterly selfish. We want to deal dmg!

[lagrimabendita.8763]

> @Ashyri.5426 said:

> Let's be honest: necro support is nonsense, the whole class is utterly selfish. We want to deal dmg!

 

I want to be necro support to dmg there a lot of classes and also the rapper

[Drekor.5217]

If they made vampiric presence 10x stronger necro support would be useful. Barriers could prevent damage and VP could heal it back(along with transfusion) while boosting the damage of the team.

[gannondorf.7628]

support hum? With all those amount of condi? Give scourge more acces to barrier at last for calling him a support. Vampiric presence would need a buff too if we speak about support.

[Vrita.7846]

I don't get why people aren't fighting for both a support build and a dps build. Are we just going to accept what a dev said about Scourge being "heavy support" so therefore we can't have competitive dps with other dps classes? Look at ele for example, they can play Tempest as a dps spec or a support spec depending on the gear and traits they take. Why can't Scourge be the same way? Why does it HAVE to be a support spec? Scourge has traits for dps and traits for a support role. If you take the dps traits, you're not as supportive to your group, if you take the support traits, you hit way less dmg. To be a proper support, you would need to wear the right gear, in the case of Scourge you would need lots of healing power to stack a lot of barrier which makes you deal less dmg. I don't understand why we're being pushed into a support role that will never be meta when we have the ridiculously broken class known as Chronomancer already. Barrier is irrelevant when a Chrono can distort big attacks, doing a whopping 0 dmg to the entire sub-squad. If people want Scourge to have a support role than fine, but we need a competitive dps option to go with it if we don't want to play as a support.

[Galmac.4680]

What support??? I don't get it. Eles can do have REAL heavy support AND damage, and necros can add a little barrier for the time of a blink. Why does everyone come then with "but if we have a group of necros, that stacks" and such kitten. Eles in groups make more damage and a kittenload of more boons/support! Or take spellbreakers, a group of them will melt you, too. Why has just the necro to accept that poor damage?? I won't accept that as fate.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Vrita.7846 said:

> I don't get why people aren't fighting for both a support build and a dps build. Are we just going to accept what a dev said about Scourge being "heavy support" so therefore we can't have competitive dps with other dps classes? Look at ele for example, they can play Tempest as a dps spec or a support spec depending on the gear and traits they take. Why can't Scourge be the same way? Why does it HAVE to be a support spec? Scourge has traits for dps and traits for a support role. If you take the dps traits, you're not as supportive to your group, if you take the support traits, you hit way less dmg. To be a proper support, you would need to wear the right gear, in the case of Scourge you would need lots of healing power to stack a lot of barrier which makes you deal less dmg. I don't understand why we're being pushed into a support role that will never be meta when we have the ridiculously broken class known as Chronomancer already. Barrier is irrelevant when a Chrono can distort big attacks, doing a whopping 0 dmg to the entire sub-squad. If people want Scourge to have a support role than fine, but we need a competitive dps option to go with it if we don't want to play as a support.

 

Well, the devs are under the impression it is a strong support spec, so it would be nice if that were actually the case.

Given Scourge would require some skill/trait redesigns to be a good support spec (Serpent Siphon tops the list for "skills that need a redesign," since it doesn't have a real use), most people are hinging their hopes on DPS being competitive. Then, at least, Scourge would be wanted for Slothasaur and Matthias as what little support they do have as a DPS spec actually has a use there.

 

But, since devs have basically told us that we won't be getting high DPS back, we should be focusing our efforts more on getting the support side to actually be worth the slot.