Open World Domination: Fire Weaver

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> Bleed damage must be pretty negligible. I'm wondering if you ran trailblazers, if spending more time in earth would be worthwhile. My gut tells me "not even a little".

 

Certainly since I skip out on earth/earth and earth/air I stack a lot less bleeding than the raid builds do. Also, since I run Dire instead of Viper and take arcane instead of earth, my bleed damage/duration is lower. Would it be worthwhile to use my build with something closer to a raid rotation? I don't know. I haven't tried it! I feel like the answer is probably not? But since I don't practice a strict step-by-step rotation in the first place, it's pretty hard to tell.

[Tuco.2419]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> > Could you please advise on a Viper build ? If you were to put it in %, how much DPS would you gain and how much survivability lose ? Are you even able to solo champions the way you do ?

>

> I went ahead and recorded a new demo using grieving stats for comparison. For my build and playstyle at least, there is virtually no advantage to grieving vs. dire. As you can see, I'm pretty comfortable here. I'm not rotating to water to heal or kiting around to avoid damage. Just as in my Dire video I'm taking it to the boss the entire time. Given that, you'd expect to see at least somewhat better damage than the Dire set, but it just isn't reflected in the output. I deal about the same damage either way.

>

>

>

> It feels to me like the quest to get more damage out of power can only come at a cost in condition damage that doesn't really pay off. This is not a hybrid build. It works better if you choose one or the other, as far as I can tell. Edit: To be clear, I'm talking for solo play here. Obviously, you can look at SC and see Viper builds that deal a lot better damage, but I suspect that much of that is from additional condition damage and the power damage contribution is somewhat inflated by support.

 

I've been wondering the same thing and am kind of surprised / disappointed you don't get much benefit. I wish you had the meters set up to show damage by source though! In Dire gear I know my damage is like, 95% burning, I'd be curious to see what it is in Dire vs Viper.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Tuco.2419" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> > > Could you please advise on a Viper build ? If you were to put it in %, how much DPS would you gain and how much survivability lose ? Are you even able to solo champions the way you do ?

> >

> > I went ahead and recorded a new demo using grieving stats for comparison. For my build and playstyle at least, there is virtually no advantage to grieving vs. dire. As you can see, I'm pretty comfortable here. I'm not rotating to water to heal or kiting around to avoid damage. Just as in my Dire video I'm taking it to the boss the entire time. Given that, you'd expect to see at least somewhat better damage than the Dire set, but it just isn't reflected in the output. I deal about the same damage either way.

> >

> >

> >

> > It feels to me like the quest to get more damage out of power can only come at a cost in condition damage that doesn't really pay off. This is not a hybrid build. It works better if you choose one or the other, as far as I can tell. Edit: To be clear, I'm talking for solo play here. Obviously, you can look at SC and see Viper builds that deal a lot better damage, but I suspect that much of that is from additional condition damage and the power damage contribution is somewhat inflated by support.

>

> I've been wondering the same thing and am kind of surprised / disappointed you don't get much benefit. I wish you had the meters set up to show damage by source though! In Dire gear I know my damage is like, 95% burning, I'd be curious to see what it is in Dire vs Viper.

 

It was 75% damage from burning in the Viper video.

[Tuco.2419]

My DPS isn't quite as high as Aliam's yet, but since switching to this spec I literally have not been out-damaged by a single elementalist in any open raid, fractal, strike mission or any other encounter. In open world zerg raids I almost never see another elementalist crack the top ten, but I'm almost always in the top 5 on any boss fight I do OK at. I don't really trust ArcDPS all that much, there are just too many instances where I don't believe some of the numbers it puts out but I figured I'd note that.

 

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> It was 75% damage from burning in the Viper video.

I'm thinking about getting into soloing some tough encounters, besides just redoing the fights you've posted videos of, are there any good fights you can recommend I try out?

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Tuco.2419" said:

> My DPS isn't quite as high as Aliam's yet, but since switching to this spec I literally have not been out-damaged by a single elementalist in any open raid, fractal, strike mission or any other encounter. In open world zerg raids I almost never see another elementalist crack the top ten, but I'm almost always in the top 5 on any boss fight I do OK at. I don't really trust ArcDPS all that much, there are just too many instances where I don't believe some of the numbers it puts out but I figured I'd note that.

>

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > It was 75% damage from burning in the Viper video.

> I'm thinking about getting into soloing some tough encounters, besides just redoing the fights you've posted videos of, are there any good fights you can recommend I try out?

>

 

I like bosses like chak lobber because they are pretty easy on account of being quite slow, but also very punishing if you fail to time evades well. If you want something more difficult, try some PoF bounties. The reason I don't typically share a lot of solos on these is that they tend to punish pure melee builds (especially when you factor in unstable magic effects!).

 

They are doable but any unfavorable mechanics that force you out to range = 0 dps. So these fights tend to look more impressive on a build that can deal damage from range.

 

You might try some bandit champions as well.

[SoundWave.9154]

I know you said you don't really use anything apart from sword but could you advise on a secondary ranged weapon ? I was thinking staff because it could be used on your mesmer trailblazer build as well but I'm not sure. Also, does it matter that I want to use a dire helmet and not replace my back item as you did in the build you cited earlier ?

 

I know these things are hard to answer but what would you say is the DPS/survivability difference between your trailblazer mesmer build and the weaver one ? Mesmer is really the only other class I like but I hear a lot of complaints about it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> I know you said you don't really use anything apart from sword but could you advise on a secondary ranged weapon ? I was thinking staff because it could be used on your mesmer trailblazer build as well but I'm not sure. Also, does it matter that I want to use a dire helmet and not replace my back item as you did in the build you cited earlier ?

>

> I know these things are hard to answer but what would you say is the DPS/survivability difference between your trailblazer mesmer build and the weaver one ? Mesmer is really the only other class I like but I hear a lot of complaints about it.

 

Staff and scepter both seem pretty awful to me, but again, I haven't really used them. As best I can tell, they are both primarily power-based options, which would do poorly with dire/trailblazer.

 

On having this piece or that piece dire, as we've discussed in this thread previously, the only thing that matters here is that you're trying to cap out burn duration without wasting stats. Anything over 100% is wasted. Anything under and you're giving up burn duration when burning is your primary source of damage.

 

As to how weaver compares to mirage in terms of survivability? Mirage is significantly easier and more forgiving to play. The fact that it can swap to a ranged weapon is also a major advantage in a lot of solo scenarios. However, if you're using dire or trailblazer on both builds I would say weaver should have much better damage output.

[SoundWave.9154]

Have you ever done a DPS test on the golem btw ? I'm asking cause earlier in the thread your DPS for Balthazar was around 15k I think and the Viper variant on snowcrows has like 38k which would imply a huge difference.

 

I'm a bit bummed out cause my DPS is so low in Mists compared to other people, which I'm sure its in large part to the fact that I don't know how to properly play ele. The snowcrow rotation for condi weaver is just ridiculous, especially compared to other classes. Are there any more simple rotations and what kind of DPS does this trailblazer build reach "ideally" (aka golem) ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> Have you ever done a DPS test on the golem btw ? I'm asking cause earlier in the thread your DPS for Balthazar was around 15k I think and the Viper variant on snowcrows has like 38k which would imply a huge difference.

>

> I'm a bit bummed out cause my DPS is so low in Mists compared to other people, which I'm sure its in large part to the fact that I don't know how to properly play ele. The snowcrow rotation for condi weaver is just ridiculous, especially compared to other classes. Are there any more simple rotations and what kind of DPS does this trailblazer build reach "ideally" (aka golem) ?

 

The purpose of my build is for solo play primarily and thus is in no way intended to compete with optimized group dps builds. However, the benchmarks on SC include full raid buffs and would not be anywhere close to 38k in solo play.

 

Having said that, my loose rotation is more simplistic than the SC rotation and less sensitive to mistakes.

 

Here's a sample of my build in a T4 fractal burn. It's competitive enough for pickups and even CMs. But it is in no way optimal.

 

[SoundWave.9154]

Did you post your rotation anywhere here ? Tried finding it but maybe I'm just skipping comments too fast. The DMG you do there is actually pretty good and I would be happy to have that. By the way, judging by the PvE solo DPS, how would this compare with other classes ? To my mind, my DPS in open world is pretty good but what if it actually sucks and a guardian can do way more with a solo build ? It's hard to tell with all these variables so I have to rely on other players experience.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> Did you post your rotation anywhere here ? Tried finding it but maybe I'm just skipping comments too fast. The DMG you do there is actually pretty good and I would be happy to have that. By the way, judging by the PvE solo DPS, how would this compare with other classes ? To my mind, my DPS in open world is pretty good but what if it actually sucks and a guardian can do way more with a solo build ? It's hard to tell with all these variables so I have to rely on other players experience.

 

I don't follow a strict rotation, but I basically try to rotate between fire/fire, fire/air, and fire/earth to stack burning. The raid rotation includes a secondary focus on bleeding where I don't.

 

Again, I am not recommending this for optimal dps. This is just how I play.

 

I don't know how my dps compares to other builds in solo scenarios as dps is generally not the primary consideration in these situations. Information on that is somewhat limited as a result.

[AliamRationem.5172]

There's a recent thread talking about how weaver feels "clunky", which refers to the tradeoff of having a 4 second attunement swap cooldown, but also being locked into that swap for 4 seconds while having your offhand weapon skills determined by the choice made on the previous swap 4 seconds prior. But I think that once you get the hang of the unique attunement swapping mechanics, weaver has a really great flow to it!

 

Check out this fight against the bandit champion Ezal the Quick. Using combinations of fire, air, and earth I'm able to play aggressively and really lay down the burn while also accessing all of the projectile defense, invuln, and evasion I need from air and earth to avoid nearly all of the incoming damage. Weaver's mechanics are a tradeoff. That means you give up some advantages, but you also gain some new ones!

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

Through feedback from other players and my own testing, I've increasingly recommended a fire/earth version of the build. It deals better damage as well as having stronger passive mitigation. With a longer attunement swap cooldown and less reliance on dodging, it should be a little bit easier to play than the fire/arcane build I use in most of my videos.

 

Here's a sample clip demonstrating burst with fire/earth. I'm able to ramp up burning to over 20k in 4 seconds, peaking at 28k on a build with nearly 3.5k armor.

 

Here's a link to the build: [Fire/Earth build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zRJYkRD/YkoA6kA6nFfd2A-e)

 

 

If you're just starting out and trailblazer isn't on the menu, try this [inexpensive variant](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zxIU8ohfQYz5SgEFgjZhKpN-e).

 

[Orack.9756]

Does this last version is the best balance between dmg and resistance ?

I would love to try weaver to see, so far, like expected, most build I see from some website or youtuber was very bad for soloing a bit more difficult thing than trash mob..

Maybe I'll try a Dire version 1st to save some money ^^

 

You was the one who answered me about Ele on a thread I made long time ago and give me the faith to go with it.

And I would like to thank you for that it's now my main.

 

I play mostly fresh/air tempest but not the usual, I've made my personal and I've solo every champ you did + more and even some leggy.

I recently killed the bandit "the quick" and the leggy who came after ^^

I've try condi tempest for a while, it's not bad but find the air one better and more convenient for the rest of the content while condi tempest is only good on boss (lack good aoe, can't reset overload and really need this + signet to get the most dmg), that why I'm curious about condi weaver.

My build have less burst/resistance than yours but many recover option and distraction with both elemental glyph pet (earth one are so tanky, even the little, it's easy to end-up with 4-5 pet at the end and can swap the big one for a water to get even more heal).

 

I'll let it here if some people want to try a fresh/air that is not in paper (perma protection + 2+ pet + many aoe + mid-range).

Cast glyph in earth when you need more protection, heal glyph in water only if you take a very big it, otherwise, earth.

Very easy to use, 3 heal in water with water field and explosion combo + water overload for even more (most of these skill while also heal your pet)

Overload are stun-break so I don't need more of them since I overlad very often and can easily delay it a bit when I know a stun is coming.

Break-bar from elite water/earth, 4 from air, 4 from water, 3+5 from earth, less ele glyph in water if need more, earth overload.. yeah, that plenty)

Staff is for meta farm only.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGwEsEmpMBWDbhVxIxS55rtD-zRJYiRX/p0kIoMhQEKiKkIGdW+dZD-e

 

Happy new year and thanks for sharing your experience with other :)

 

 

 

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Orack.9756" said:

> Does this last version is the best balance between dmg and resistance ?

> I would love to try weaver to see, so far, like expected, most build I see from some website or youtuber was very bad for soloing a bit more difficult thing than trash mob..

> Maybe I'll try a Dire version 1st to save some money ^^

>

> You was the one who answered me about Ele on a thread I made long time ago and give me the faith to go with it.

> And I would like to thank you for that it's now my main.

>

> I play mostly fresh/air tempest but not the usual, I've made my personal and I've solo every champ you did + more and even some leggy.

> I recently killed the bandit "the quick" and the leggy who came after ^^

> I've try condi tempest for a while, it's not bad but find the air one better and more convenient for the rest of the content while condi tempest is only good on boss (lack good aoe, can't reset overload and really need this + signet to get the most dmg), that why I'm curious about condi weaver.

> My build have less burst/resistance than yours but many recover option and distraction with both elemental glyph pet (earth one are so tanky, even the little, it's easy to end-up with 4-5 pet at the end and can swap the big one for a water to get even more heal).

>

> I'll let it here if some people want to try a fresh/air that is not in paper (perma protection + 2+ pet + many aoe + mid-range).

> Cast glyph in earth when you need more protection, heal glyph in water only if you take a very big it, otherwise, earth.

> Very easy to use, 3 heal in water with water field and explosion combo + water overload for even more (most of these skill while also heal your pet)

> Overload are stun-break so I don't need more of them since I overlad very often and can easily delay it a bit when I know a stun is coming.

> Break-bar from elite water/earth, 4 from air, 4 from water, 3+5 from earth, less ele glyph in water if need more, earth overload.. yeah, that plenty)

> Staff is for meta farm only.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGwEsEmpMBWDbhVxIxS55rtD-zRJYiRX/p0kIoMhQEKiKkIGdW+dZD-e

>

> Happy new year and thanks for sharing your experience with other :)

>

>

>

>

>

 

I don't know what the "best" is, but this [build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zxIU8ohfQYz5SgEFgjZhKpN-e) is very strong while also being very inexpensive to gear.

 

Thanks for sharing the tempest build. I'm a total noob when it comes to scepter and staff I don't even know what the skills do. I've only played dagger tempest and sword weaver. I guess I prefer melee builds for my eles!

[Orack.9756]

Thank, I'll definitly try it :)

[SoundWave.9154]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Through feedback from other players and my own testing, I've increasingly recommended a fire/earth version of the build. It deals better damage as well as having stronger passive mitigation. With a longer attunement swap cooldown and less reliance on dodging, it should be a little bit easier to play than the fire/arcane build I use in most of my videos.

>

> Here's a sample clip demonstrating burst with fire/earth. I'm able to ramp up burning to over 20k in 4 seconds, peaking at 28k on a build with nearly 3.5k armor.

>

> Here's a link to the build: [Fire/Earth build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zRJYkRD/YkoA6kA6nFfd2A-e)

>

>

>

> If you're just starting out and trailblazer isn't on the menu, try this [inexpensive variant](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zxIU8ohfQYz5SgEFgjZhKpN-e).

>

 

Doesn't this build have too much expertise ? Thought everything above 80% is wasted.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"SoundWave.9154" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > Through feedback from other players and my own testing, I've increasingly recommended a fire/earth version of the build. It deals better damage as well as having stronger passive mitigation. With a longer attunement swap cooldown and less reliance on dodging, it should be a little bit easier to play than the fire/arcane build I use in most of my videos.

> >

> > Here's a sample clip demonstrating burst with fire/earth. I'm able to ramp up burning to over 20k in 4 seconds, peaking at 28k on a build with nearly 3.5k armor.

> >

> > Here's a link to the build: [Fire/Earth build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zRJYkRD/YkoA6kA6nFfd2A-e)

> >

> >

> >

> > If you're just starting out and trailblazer isn't on the menu, try this [inexpensive variant](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKPnvaA-zxIU8ohfQYz5SgEFgjZhKpN-e).

> >

>

> Doesn't this build have too much expertise ? Thought everything above 80% is wasted.

 

Yes, due to smoldering sigil being overkill. As an alternative, you can use burn duration food with a different sigil. I believe this comes up a few % short of capping burn duration. You could also swap out some trailblazer stats for dire stats to get it just perfect. It's the usual puzzle of arranging things however you like but basically arriving at the same place!

[Orack.9756]

EDIT :

 

Nvm I was just a noob !

The 2 sigil I've change help me a lot (leeching+energy) and now than I'm finaly familiar with all the new spell I noticed the 2 evasion, that help me a lot too now than I don't wast them. All test-champ done easily now :)

Thx for the build, very funny to play.

 

Last question I guess : Why the weakness trait in weaver instead of hp ?

For now I use the hp one since I lack some dire part to reach 20k, but I'm curious about yuor choice :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Orack.9756" said:

> EDIT :

>

> Nvm I was just a noob !

> The 2 sigil I've change help me a lot (leeching+energy) and now than I'm finaly familiar with all the new spell I noticed the 2 evasion, that help me a lot too now than I don't wast them. All test-champ done easily now :)

> Thx for the build, very funny to play.

>

> Last question I guess : Why the weakness trait in weaver instead of hp ?

> For now I use the hp one since I lack some dire part to reach 20k, but I'm curious about yuor choice :)

 

If you find the extra health helpful, then definitely take the trait.

 

I find that the extra health is quite nice when I only have 11k health and baseline armor as any hit from a champion could force you to play defensively. However, when I have 18k+ health with 3k+ armor on a build with strong evasion and consistent passive barrier and healing, the extra health isn't usually doing anything for me.

 

For example, check out this demo I uploaded the other day demonstrating use of evasion, defensive cooldowns, CC and positioning against the vampire broodmother HP challenge in Verdant Brink. The boss only manages to touch me twice during the fight and one of those hits is almost completely absorbed by barrier.