Good idea or not?

[rng.1024]

I'm considering writing a 3-part essay on how to carry as efficiently as possible in 5v5 conquest. The main focus would be on rotations, and a step by step instruction as the match progresses. I know this has been attempted before, but it's always felt quite complex and not coherent enough for more casual players - which is why I aim to make it as simple as possible.

 

The goal is to educate the lower end of the rating spectrum on proper rotations and decisionmaking, to give them an accessible resource they can use that applies regardless of which profession they play. This way they won't meet a brick wall as they climb and hopefully when they get mixed in with plat queues the quality of the games will be better as a result.

 

Do you think it'd be useful to have such a manual?

[soul.6527]

@"rng.1024" if you have nothing to do go ahead but sites like godsofpvp already do a very good job at explaining rotations and is even class/role specific and if any beginners would be interested I don’t think they would read a essay. Rather I would think it were to be more interesting if you tried to make a simplistic info graphic or any way of displaying information you would want to do. Reason being it’s hard to simple in a way that no matter who you are and what you know, you will take back 100% of the contents of this information.

[Tayga.3192]

I voted yes but guides already exist no?

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lb1p7SMYTF8AkBPB1E_iTV2hKergpQKgECKOeCjWkC0/edit?usp=sharing

 

https://www.godsofpvp.net/guides/getting-started/introduction-r1/

[Exedore.6320]

An essay won't be read or remembered. You need a short, concise guide with easy to remember bullets each with a short explanation.

[xWiroo.3841]

like someone said before, make it short and easy to read.

[avey.4201]

standard rotations lose as many matches as they win.

too many factors go into zerging/side noding/and everything else, I'm a slow DH and have camped far, camped mid, camped home, rotated mid far/ mid home.

new people learning to fight on node is all they need to know, everything else requires build experience and experience reading your enemy.

mid node at start is about poking each of the 5, and seeing their reaction, and knowing how to counter them based on their reaction timing/skill usage, checking team comp, and winning the node are just bonuses.

fighting off node, or taking an outnumbered fight knowing you'll die can secure a win, but it's very situational to how long, and how many you can troll for that time.

cookie cutter rotations will lose matches, if the casual player will fight on node, it should be enough to give his team a fighting chance.

key to spvp, node>kill.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Word to the wise. I once wrote this: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest which was a rare forum gem for this community, but despite the crying out for such a thread, it received only review from veterans, but no use from the new players it was written for. I've learned over the years that people have an incredibly short attention span for reading. Even though they could read everything I wrote in that thread in 10 minutes or less, they'd rather watch a 2 hour stream or youtube video where someone takes an elongated amount of time to say the same thing.

 

Your guide shouldn't go beyond 10 bullet points or people won't read it and they certainly won't be linking it to others who need it.

 

I would suggest it to be as ridiculous short & sweet as possible, with only the most crucial information needed. Something like this:

 

THE SUPER BASIC GETTING STARTED TUTORIAL

 

1. **Understand the 4 job roles in conquest and how they are played** - They are "Team Fighter" "Team Support" "+1 DPS Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"

2. **Run a proper build and understand what job role it is used for** - If your class is not running a build that is good at one of these job roles, it will suck in conquest.

3. **Learn how to use the pvp gear build panel** - Your pve gear stats/runes/sigils are not used in pvp. Open your H panel and click the pvp gear build next to your helmet icon. This is where you configure the gear stats for your pvp build. All gear regardless of actual quality or level, is treated as a lv 80 exotic in the pvp area. Yes, taking off your armor pieces does remove base armor value from your character in pvp. Leave your armor pieces on.

4. **Don't die** - The strongest thing you can do for your team is to not die. Do not walk into situations that you obviously cannot handle. Make sure to leave bad situations before they turn into a team wipe. And do not attempt to 1v1 players that you know you'll lose to. Wait for your team and situations that you know you can win.

5. **When to revive an ally and when to let him die?** - Use your common sense. Revive if it safe to revive him. Let him die if trying to revive him would also get yourself killed. Remember, stay alive.

6. **When to stomp/cleave or when to leave?** - Again, use your common sense. If it is safe to stomp/cleave the opponent, do it. If attempting the stomp/cleave would get you killed, don't do it. If you know staying for the stomp/cleave is going to get you killed, just leave and regroup with your team in a different position. It is always better to stay alive for regroup.

7. **Winning Conquest is about capping and holding nodes** - Really let this statement sink in because not enough players do. This falls into the idea of "Rotations" which is not easily explained and new players reading this wouldn't be ready to hear it anyway. However there is one rule of thumb that is almost always true -> If you take a node, hold that node. Don't just walk away from it and allow the opponent to have it for free. Even if you know you can't beat the enemy on the node, try to stall the enemy from obtaining a decap on the node as long as you can _while it is safe to do so._ When the situation becomes dangerous to stay, leave and regroup with your team somewhere else.

8. **Don't push map objectives in vain** - Pushing map objectives improperly or at the wrong times, generally results in detrimental results for your team. If you have to question yourself on "Should I be doing this or not?" don't do it. Over the course of time of viewing matches and how the objectives work, you'll begin to understand when and how to run the objectives without being a complete liability while doing it.

9. **Get a good gaming mouse - Setup some great keybinds - Explore your in-game settings and how to tweak them for your pvp experience.**

10. **Don't be toxic - Ignore those who are.**

 

If you have further questions about any of the above, go in-game and find players who have Plat+ badges above their heads, and ask them questions.

 

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Anything beyond a simple written piece like that ^ you should probably make a youtube video if you want the guide to see actual use. Especially if we're talking rotations. People need to "See it" for it to sink in. I'd suggest catching some good footage and put it to use.

 

Try to avoid using current meta patching specific references such as "Tempest Aura Share is this or can do this" because things change so often in this game that your information and time spent will become more and more obsolete per every 2 month interval. I'd try to use only references that have been proven to remain true throughout the entire 9 years of this game's history. Things like: "Team Fighter" "Team Support" "+1 Roamer" "Side Noder" <- That kind of stuff always stays the same no matter what meta patching we are in or what builds are doing those jobs. If you see what I mean. Just trying to save you a waste of time, so your work remains relevant after you've invested the sweat into it. _It also may be a good idea to wait until the new expansion drops before you do any serious coverage of this game, until we see how things change._

 

Oh and also, expect to not be respected. There are all kinds of commercial interests nowadays for any game community. If you aren't involved directly with these commercial sources who are also writing similar types of guides/information for the purpose of getting commercial hits, these people will do everything they can to sweep your work under the rug.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

someone made a youtube video a long time ago with in game footage. I think something like that would be your best bet. try to keep it as short as possible, chances are if its 30 min most people will yawn half way thru or even before they start lol.

[Grimjack.8130]

whoever you are, this is not BM, i dont think ur good enough to make a guide, search out help for making it or you will actively hurt the community and not help it, the last thing we need is more bad guides going around and people actually listening to it

[lare.5129]

vote "bad idea". what "rotation"? main rotation is fun.

[rng.1024]

Thanks alot for all the feedback everyone, I can extrapolate a little of how I think:

 

Like you all point out, it needs to be simple to understand and remember. The 3 parts were going to cover the scenarios of the duelists, the teamfighters and the roamers. Most importantly I would explain where to go at the start, and what to do in case the first midfight is lost or won - this way I can keep it very short by just telling them what to keep focusing on for the rest of the game.

 

For you veterans out there my aim is also to cover things like sticking to your firebrand, to not over-zerg to nodes and when fighting on roads is helping you win the match. Also when not to go far. It won't go into great detail on how to fight effectively, but every role will get a description of what it's expected to be able to do. My hopes are we will see less of these mistakes in ranked queues regardless of rating.

 

If my credentials and merits are an issue, I would have no problem letting volunteer experts do a peer review before posting, if they give thumbs down I won't post it at all. To me it's all hard logic and math, but for many the inclusion of bad matchups due to skill affects their rotations in a bad way. This is why I wanted to hear if there was interest in such a thing :)

 

I personally favor a google document, but I can look into making a youtube video aswell as these scenarios are pretty easy to get.

 

The overarcing goal is to make low ranked player in plat queues be less of a liability. No constantly running to far and dying and not pushing into a losing mid. To not fight on the roads with 1 minute left and 3-cap against you. If you are plat even I don't expect the guide to be of any use. I just want to set a standard so even if someone plays like a bot, atleast they will do so on close instead of far which is easier to manage and frees up more experienced players to make plays. To bridge the gap a little so to speak.