Specialisation stacking in at’s needs to get disabled

[Tyga.7056]

This is something that has been requested for a long time from the community and is now even more relevant, because of the state the PvP community is in right now due to MOTA and the lockdowns. If you want people to sustainable continue playing at’s and competing against eachother, this is a key element of it.

Classes should be played, because they fulfill a certain role in a team concept and not because they’re overpowered at a time and you just duplicate them to faceroll everything.

It would generally make it easier to balance around the competitive scene for you and also give us more time to play the game inbetween balance patches.

If you‘re on it already, swapping classes should also not be allowed during a match.

[lare.5129]

spec stack is good? may be. If someone need it - ok. Don't see any reason to disrub play to someone.

[Tyga.7056]

It just basically limits teams to diverse their comp in certain meta‘s. We had it all already. Double power Rev, Double water ele, sidenode classes that were superior to all other. It makes the game stale and forces a lot of teams playing the same comps. With no specialisation stacking you enable comp diversity in most cases.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This is one of the cons not having a holly trinity system where a healer can't tank or dps to any significant degree or a tank that cant come close to matching the dps potential of burst or dps classes and lastly the dps classes not being able to tank or heal close to the tank or healers potential. This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

[Exedore.6320]

If certain builds or specializations are being stacked, then it's probably because it's too strong and needs adjusted. Treat the problem (class/spec to strong) , not the symptoms (players stack class/spec which is too strong).

[Tyga.7056]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> If certain builds or specializations are being stacked, then it's probably because it's too strong and needs adjusted. Treat the problem (class/spec to strong) , not the symptoms (players stack class/spec which is too strong).

 

This is superior solution thats right, but as you can see we can't even get a balance patch every 3 months out.

> @"Tyga.7056" said:

> also give us more time to play the game inbetween balance patches.

 

 

 

[Tyga.7056]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

 

I agree with that. Balancing towards roles would be a lot more healthy for the game. Out of experience I think the current and past balancing contained out of balancing towards making everything viable to play.

But anyways I have no foundation on this, because I have no insight on workflows, neither does someone else. All I'm asking for is a system, that helps preventing balancing mistakes (which is something that usually happens and not only counts for arenanet) affecting the competitive scene too much.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Tyga.7056" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > If certain builds or specializations are being stacked, then it's probably because it's too strong and needs adjusted. Treat the problem (class/spec to strong) , not the symptoms (players stack class/spec which is too strong).

>

> This is superior solution thats right, but as you can see we can't even get a balance patch every 3 months out.

 

And you expect ANet to modify PvP code faster? Need I remind you how long Swiss took?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

there are always going to be the strongest builds. realizing this and disabling class stacking as well as class switching makes sense. it could be you enter a match and have the countdown timer to change your spec and build instead of this class switch hot potato we have now.

[Tyga.7056]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Tyga.7056" said:

> > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > If certain builds or specializations are being stacked, then it's probably because it's too strong and needs adjusted. Treat the problem (class/spec to strong) , not the symptoms (players stack class/spec which is too strong).

> >

> > This is superior solution thats right, but as you can see we can't even get a balance patch every 3 months out.

>

> And you expect ANet to modify PvP code faster? Need I remind you how long Swiss took?

 

You don't know that, neither do I. A similar system is already implemented with not being able to swap classes in ranked

 

 

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> This is one of the cons not having a holly trinity system where a healer can't tank or dps to any significant degree or a tank that cant come close to matching the dps potential of burst or dps classes and lastly the dps classes not being able to tank or heal close to the tank or healers potential. This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

 

If you think a holy trinity would help, you're mistaken. Once the requirements are met, people would keep stacking what's most effective. And with more constraints, it's easier to find what's most effective as there is less variables.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > This is one of the cons not having a holly trinity system where a healer can't tank or dps to any significant degree or a tank that cant come close to matching the dps potential of burst or dps classes and lastly the dps classes not being able to tank or heal close to the tank or healers potential. This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

>

> If you think a holy trinity would help, you're mistaken. Once the requirements are met, people would keep stacking what's most effective. And with more constraints, it's easier to find what's most effective as there is less variables.

 

Yes they would but at least it would be far more class derverse per match than it is now especially when balancing classes based on excelling at one role vs all roles. If it became aperant stacking 2 tanks or 3is a issue I'd be far easier to isolate and balance the problem.

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > This is one of the cons not having a holly trinity system where a healer can't tank or dps to any significant degree or a tank that cant come close to matching the dps potential of burst or dps classes and lastly the dps classes not being able to tank or heal close to the tank or healers potential. This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

> >

> > If you think a holy trinity would help, you're mistaken. Once the requirements are met, people would keep stacking what's most effective. And with more constraints, it's easier to find what's most effective as there is less variables.

>

> Yes they would but at least it would be far more class derverse per match than it is now especially when balancing classes based on excelling at one role vs all roles. If it became aperant stacking 2 tanks or 3is a issue I'd be far easier to isolate and balance the problem.

 

That's as artificial as limiting comp to 1 of each profession, or each profession elite variant, which can be done without a holy trinity.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > This is one of the cons not having a holly trinity system where a healer can't tank or dps to any significant degree or a tank that cant come close to matching the dps potential of burst or dps classes and lastly the dps classes not being able to tank or heal close to the tank or healers potential. This system of classes can effectively do all sounds great on paper but requires far more balancing than anets capable of. Now we have classes that are more very effective at multiple things while others are mediocre in all things and so on. Honestly anet needs to sit down and over few months actually hash out a real plan, maybe decide on what classes they want as support/healing, support/tanking and what ones they want as dps and make massive reworks to show what each class is sopose to excel in. This would lead to far better class deversity per match and be far easier to effectively balance.

> > >

> > > If you think a holy trinity would help, you're mistaken. Once the requirements are met, people would keep stacking what's most effective. And with more constraints, it's easier to find what's most effective as there is less variables.

> >

> > Yes they would but at least it would be far more class derverse per match than it is now especially when balancing classes based on excelling at one role vs all roles. If it became aperant stacking 2 tanks or 3is a issue I'd be far easier to isolate and balance the problem.

>

> That's as artificial as limiting comp to 1 of each profession, or each profession elite variant, which can be done without a holy trinity.

 

Ok lol have fun with the whole every class does everything except a handful are great at everything or far more so than others, will always be this way and ull always see the same few specs with the same few builds spammed every match as the devs for this game have no where near the capabilities to balance the classes if they want to stay with the whole one class can do everything schtick, they need a far bigger team and invest for more time to do so with far more testing to even come close to a acceptable balance.

[Khalisto.5780]

that's some lazy solution to bad balance

 

like when dd cele ele was a thing and the esl winning team won with 4 eles and a thief and anet made the rule you cant stack mlre than 2 classes

[McPero.3287]

...........

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> If certain builds or specializations are being stacked, then it's probably because it's too strong and needs adjusted. Treat the problem (class/spec to strong) , not the symptoms (players stack class/spec which is too strong).

 

While this is true, it does nothing to prevent just stacking the next best-in-slot option after the current one is dealt with. Moreover, class stacking has been prevalent since the inception of the game, so clearly 8 years of balance attempts to deal with the issue haven’t been wildly successful in preventing it (obviously some balance cycles have been better than others for this issue).

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Tyga.7056" said:

> This is something that has been requested for a long time from the community and is now even more relevant, because of the state the PvP community is in right now due to MOTA and the lockdowns. If you want people to sustainable continue playing at’s and competing against eachother, this is a key element of it.

> Classes should be played, because they fulfill a certain role in a team concept and not because they’re overpowered at a time and you just duplicate them to faceroll everything.

> It would generally make it easier to balance around the competitive scene for you and also give us more time to play the game inbetween balance patches.

> If you‘re on it already, swapping classes should also not be allowed during a match.

 

This is a bandaid to the problem. The problem is ranger/eng/rev currently do everything (tanky and hold nodes, quick with insane mobility for rotating, and high burst). Fix these "I do everything" classes and you won't have class stacking.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

so, what classes are being stacked in 3 v 3?

[mortrialus.3062]

Removing spec stacking wouldn't fix builds being overpowered enough to be mandatory. If Anything it highlights which builds need fast immediate adjustments. Removing class stacking is a bandaid and doesn't actually address the real problem at all; that certain builds are incredibly over powered.

[Tyga.7056]

I know that it doesn’t attack initial problem and I already stated my opinion on it. It‘s supposed to be a backup system for the lack of balance patches in general. The past showed that balancing regularly doesn’t seem possible for ArenaNet and we do have a long time inbetween patches. I‘m also not expecting them to be flawless with every patch, so a balance patch will never equal perfect balancing. All I want is the game not be insanely effected by that and yes its easy to say just balance properly :) (Just dodge 4head).

 

 

[Exedore.6320]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> While this is true, it does nothing to prevent just stacking the next best-in-slot option after the current one is dealt with. Moreover, class stacking has been prevalent since the inception of the game, so clearly 8 years of balance attempts to deal with the issue haven’t been wildly successful in preventing it (obviously some balance cycles have been better than others for this issue).

False.

Class stacking was not a problem until the pre-HoT patch with the d/d ele teams. During HoT, stacking wasn't that prevalent either.

 

It's also worth noting that 2v2 and 3v3 see more issues with streaming because there are less rolls to fill.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > While this is true, it does nothing to prevent just stacking the next best-in-slot option after the current one is dealt with. Moreover, class stacking has been prevalent since the inception of the game, so clearly 8 years of balance attempts to deal with the issue haven’t been wildly successful in preventing it (obviously some balance cycles have been better than others for this issue).

> False.

> Class stacking was not a problem until the pre-HoT patch with the d/d ele teams. During HoT, stacking wasn't that prevalent either.

>

> It's also worth noting that 2v2 and 3v3 see more issues with streaming because there are less rolls to fill.

 

“Stacking” can be as low as 2 on a team tho, so my statements are false at all; it has always been around, to some degree, since the game started.