[Suggestion] Give Item to boost core professions

[Ithilwen.1529]

The devs have more-or-less stated that they do not want core classes to be equivalent in power to elite specs. This is for obvious commercial reasons.

 

That's a problem for me and other players who prefer core builds. Because of the Alacrity giveaway and the general buginess of Mirage.. I choose to play a core Mesmer.

 

So here's what I propose: Players who own one or both expansions would get a non essential piece of PvP only armor. Headgear, for sake of argument. This would be PvP only and would boost that player's core class to be on par with elites. **All the pieces for this already exist.. it really wouldn't be that much work.** In return, the game would get a slew of newly playable classes for PvP.

 

 

[Axl.8924]

I don't know anything about mesmers, is there anything viable about core mesmer?

[Loop.8106]

Core Guardian and Core Warriors are still "competetive" -ish. Even core necro might be okay with Celestial being back in rotation.

[Loop.8106]

Core Guardian and Core Warriors are still "competetive" -ish. Even core necro might be okay with Celestial being back in rotation.

[Sombrero.9204]

Well with the recent updates (since about a year) yes core Mesmer can honestly do ok, but that can be said for quite a few classes to be fair.

I never liked the elite spec idea, it's cute and all but you have to choose one of several which in the end means that 80% of players will always play the latest and more often than not the most op too because yay power creep. I'd be a lot happier with only "core" things and additional skills, specs if you want but nothing that reduce the amount of builds as drastically as elite specs.

Back to topic, I don't think your suggestion makes much sense, the problem isn't truly about raw stats but more about unique perks of each specs. For the mesmer case the Chronomancer shields spells are super strong and most traits are really interesting, you can't translate that to pure stat bonuses for core Mesmer. And Mirage is even more of a bizarre case as many players find it underwhelming (honestly the Axe is probably the worst weapon skills for any class in the game so far, and by far) but Mirage can still do some crazy things. But again, last updates gave also similar things to core mesmer, the changes to the double illusion summoning breaking targeting for instance is super strong and can be done on core, core mesmer weapons are super useful too (staff is quite meh without mirage ambush though)

[OriOri.8724]

How would this exclusive piece of armor boost a core profession to be on the same level as elite specs? Elite specs are generally better because a single traitline offers defensive + offensive + self-support options all in one as an elite line, and no core line does that. How would an armor piece address that?

[Razor.6392]

Core s/d thief is competitive

Core FA ele is competitive

Apparently core warr and guard are competitive.

 

It's the other core classes that need something, however since most elite specs tend to use a LOT of core utility skills and traits, that might push them over the top.

[Majirah.5089]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> How would this exclusive piece of armor boost a core profession to be on the same level as elite specs? Elite specs are generally better because a single traitline offers defensive + offensive + self-support options all in one as an elite line, and no core line does that. How would an armor piece address that?

 

Pretty much this. Often times I don't really think it comes down to something stats could fix appropriately.

[Chaith.8256]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> How would this exclusive piece of armor boost a core profession to be on the same level as elite specs? Elite specs are generally better because a single traitline offers defensive + offensive + self-support options all in one as an elite line, and no core line does that. How would an armor piece address that?

 

It's a request to design and ship buffs to the underpowered core specs such as core Mesmer, which OP plays. It's been suggested a million times but now with the added twist to give these buffs ONLY to wielders of a magic hat, acquired behind the paywall of expansions. :joy: :+1: . Hope that clears things up.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I didn't suggest that it be an improvement to traits. I don't know what specifically would be addressed, That is a whole debate in and of itself.

 

The suggestion was of a way to make core specs competitive while preserving ANET's "pay wall." That suggestion comes because devs in a recent AMA suggested that they did not wish core specs to be competitive. I can only assume this is because they want to force people to buy expacs to win.

 

I own both expansions on my main and HoT on my alt.

 

[Coulter.2315]

They would need to redesign core specs and it is crazy to ask them to produce something that they would attach to an expansion but for free and just for PvP, not to mention the implementation.

 

I all honesty I expected them to elevate Illusions to Elite when HoT launched, but they've gone down another path and I don't think this request will happen or make much sense unless it went to the whole game (but then you'd lose all your builds with illusions + chrono/mirage).

[OriOri.8724]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> I didn't suggest that it be an improvement to traits. *I don't know what specifically would be addressed* , That is a whole debate in and of itself.

>

> The suggestion was of a way to make core specs competitive while preserving ANET's precious "pay wall." That suggestion comes because devs in a recent AMA suggested that they did not wish core specs to be competitive. I can only assume this is because they want to force people to buy expacs to win.

>

> I own both expansions on my main and HoT on my alt.

>

 

This is a problem. This is a very vague proposal, it gives the devs nothing to build, nothing to implement. You should be giving them details.

 

I only see 2 ways in which an armor piece could bring core specs up to elite specs

 

* It adds bonus stats

* It improves traits/skills available to the core class

 

Right off the bat, we have the ability to exploit this. Even if not allowed, someone would figure out how to get this bonus even while using their elite spec line, thus negating the purpose. Once that is fixed though, we still have core builds that are competitive, or even better, than some elite spec builds. There's no good, sane way for the game itself to determine which core builds are this strong and which aren't, which needlessly buffs those builds even further and cements them as the top builds in the game (in the end, the problem is the same, a few builds dominating the rest).

 

Back to each implementation in specific: well bonus stats won't make up the difference, since the advantage that elite specs bring is a combination of a traitline that offers everything (the HoT lines), and skills/traits that are very overloaded compared to core lines (both HoT and PoF lines). Raw stats isn't going to make up for losing this.

 

As for improving traits/skills for the core class. Well, which ones would be improved? All of them? Only a select few? This would force you into certain builds in order to get these bonuses. If all of them were improved it would be massive powercreep, on top of a shitton of work. How would they be improved? This would also necessitate an extra layer of balancing to balance these improved skills/traits. Etc.... Etc.... Etc....

 

If you can provide concret implementation details for this, along with showing us how it would be fair and also easy to implement, I''ll read through it and consider it. But until then this is barely an idea.

[bluri.2653]

Sorry but some magical helm isnt gonna make you better

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @bluri.2653 said:

> Sorry but some magical helm isnt gonna make you better

 

That's a complete misconception. I want basic parity. *I don't want to go into fights knowing the deck is already stacked against me because I choose to play a vanilla build.* ANET has ruined the two elite Mesmer specs for me.

[Allarius.5670]

Meta shifts with balance, expansions, and player insights. Not all builds will work well against all other builds, or even specific builds, all the time because of this shift. Maybe core Mesmer does need something, but it is also likely you need to adapt your build and playstyle to the current shift in the game. Core PU may not be effective currently as it has been traditionally played, but maybe it can be made effective enough for your needs with some tweaks to build out and approach.

 

You can be upset about what the Devs have done with the Mesmer elite specs, but deciding not to use them when they can be made effective and functional for multiple playstyles is on you. Having said that, I get where you are coming from with the suggestion, and to want all professions to have a functional core build is reasonable. Even so, I have a hard time seeing such core builds being effective for all metas; functional, sure, but not necessarily effective. Either way, the proposed suggestion is probably not a good way to go.

 

Edit: Also, maybe try a different approach altogether. Instead of thinking "this opponent has better cards and will auto win", try to think of "what do I need to do to help my team win this match", "how do I counter the effectiveness of this specific build on the match outcome", etc.

[Cosminion.5042]

Elites should be a different way to play the profession, not a new way. Elites should not be better than core, just different. It is very possible to make them different, fun, and still have core specs be viable and on the same level.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @bluri.2653 said:

> > Sorry but some magical helm isnt gonna make you better

>

> That's a complete misconception. I want basic parity. *I don't want to go into fights knowing the deck is already stacked against me because I choose to play a vanilla build.* ANET has ruined the two elite Mesmer specs for me.

 

I don't want to weapon swap, Anet should make my 1 weapon set do twice the damage because I choose to play with only 1, I SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED BY ANET FOR PLAYING HOW I WANT.

 

midoingthisrite?

[troops.8276]

Or how about just build exclusive amulets, sigils and weapon slot thingys. Could even be made exclusive to ranked, stronghold, etc and even by division. The latter to act as a handicap to help mm create better balanced matchups. It could be done regressively. Plat cant use bronze amulets for example.

 

And while we're at it Anet should fix everything else, end world hunger and make me taller irl.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > @bluri.2653 said:

> > > Sorry but some magical helm isnt gonna make you better

> >

> > That's a complete misconception. I want basic parity. *I don't want to go into fights knowing the deck is already stacked against me because I choose to play a vanilla build.* ANET has ruined the two elite Mesmer specs for me.

>

> I don't want to weapon swap, Anet should make my 1 weapon set do twice the damage because I choose to play with only 1, I SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED BY ANET FOR PLAYING HOW I WANT.

>

> midoingthisrite?

 

That's completely unwarranted. It's reasonable to ask that core specs be on par with "elite" specs. **ANET itself advertised that they would be different not superior.** That didn't turn out to be true in practice. I'm asking that they make it true.

[Ludus Rex.1562]

I thought this was going to be a thread about eating poor children.

 

Was disappointed.

[troops.8276]

But there's so little meat on most of them.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I just want to point out that I play my core engi a lot still and I still do very well against HoT and PoF classes.

[Zlater.6789]

This suggestion is horrible. I've seen some comments by the op elsewhere and I get this feeling that the op only ever complains about balance problems with mesmer., when really its a very op class. Chrono and mirage are very strong, not just in pvp but everywhere, core mesmer really is not so much and I think it never will be. If you want to know why watch this video.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> That's completely unwarranted. It's reasonable to ask that core specs be on par with "elite" specs. **ANET itself advertised that they would be different not superior.** That didn't turn out to be true in practice. I'm asking that they make it true.

 

But some core specs are indeed on par with elite specs. Buffing them in any way will make things worse

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

Downvote.

 

Can you just play a build that is not bad instead of making a new thread everyday about how your OLD, OUTDATED, INEFFICIENT build is getting destroyed and how everything should change EXCEPT your build.