Next Expansion: Mobilites for Necro

[Jabronee.9465]

I guess it's about time Necro should get tons of mobility or or even stealth (non aoe).

There are suggested weapons on this forum especially Sword for the next expansion for this class.

As swords are one of the highest mobility weapons for some classes like Wars & Rangers to name a few with leaps/evade (short cooldowns)

So i hope it will be the same for Necros this time round for Cantha!

If its not then i guess its time for me to say fairwell as i love this class to bit, maxed it out, dressed it uniquely and its the sole reason i still playing GW2 (wvw).

I have pre-ordered and upcoming mmo that will be release pretty soon. So Anet please give me a reason to buy the expansion for the class that i love playing day in and day out.

If not then it is time to start a new adventure in a NEW land, where i will surely spent tons of hours in it.

Before i got bashed with "play a different class" kinda replies, i guess i should state the class that i've been playing since launch.

Roaming: Druid or SB Ranger/SD, PD and DE Thief (for the lolz)

Zergs/Blobs: (Main) Reaper or Scourge/SB War/ Staff Weaver

PvE: Any one of them.

Anet please do check my Account on how many hours i've put on playing these classes if you have to. But my love that keeps me playing this game is always Necro as we all already knew lolz.

 

Thank you for reading. Sorry for my English as English is not my official language.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

You won't be "bashed" for what you want, I'd say the issues are elsewhere.

 

Technically the necromancer have already similar amount of mobility to other profession. The reason it doesn't feel like it is that the skills and traits that grant it aren't especially user friendly compared to what other professions have.

 

The second thing is that more than mobility, what you truly want is probably a more dynamic gameplay. And here the issue is that whatever we want the e-spec will be tied to the tool of the core necromancer and the core necromancer isn't an especially good foundation for something with a dynamic gameplay.

[KrHome.1920]

Reaper has competitive mobility to other classes. It has one of the shortest cooldown leaps in the game and lots of swiftness and anti cc sources.

 

What I don't like about that is the fact that the mobility is tied to the Speed Rune which can be reworked or removed every day. And the complaints about the rune are becoming louder and louder.

 

 

 

 

[XECOR.2814]

If they just made death shroud 2 castable aoe and not depend on target.

[Faccina.5091]

i want permastealth 9001 speed and 7k crits like thiefs

and dual swords ;)

[Kodama.6453]

In my opinion, the elite specs so far can roughly get seperated in 3 roles: dps, bruiser, support

 

From these 3 roles, necromancer already has the dps spec (reaper) and the support spec (scourge).

Which leaves us with the bruiser spec.

 

So I think the best would be to change the death shroud in some way (to make the defense not too oppressive) in exchange of giving necromancer access to more active defense like blocks, evades, etc.

 

Such an elite spec _could_ be mobile, daredevil for example serves as the thief bruiser elite spec and is highly mobile, but I would personally not wish necromancer to be like that.

The thematic I would go for are bones. Make necromancer some kind of "bone knight", with shield as a new weapon (with nice skin, maybe looking like a ripcage?).

Summoning walls made of bone to protect himself (and potentially allies) with, covering himself in a bone armor to increase his tankiness, that kind of stuff. Should have alot of blocks to stay alive on the battlefield while piercing enemies with bone splinters.

 

With that thematic, keeping the necromancer fairly immobile seems more appropriate. But you still gain alot of survivability through the new blocks.

[Anchoku.8142]

Personally, I would rather see Necro get some core updates, especially core weapons, and an elite that uses LF to generate some good boons to share.

 

Lack of good buffs to share in PvE is a key part of the balance issues between competitive modes and PvE. If Necro debuffs were as useful against bosses in PvE as they are in the rest of the game, balance would be much easier for the dev's to dial in but Defiance is what it is so core Necro mechanics are easily OP in one game mode and UP in another.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> The thematic I would go for are bones. Make necromancer some kind of "bone knight", with shield as a new weapon (with nice skin, maybe looking like a ripcage?).

> Summoning walls made of bone to protect himself (and potentially allies) with, covering himself in a bone armor to increase his tankiness, that kind of stuff. Should have alot of blocks to stay alive on the battlefield while piercing enemies with bone splinters.

 

You're suggesting scourge 2.0 here. Barrier is basically the bone armor and shades are basically putting up bones walls.

 

ANet won't give block or evade to the necromancer because the necromancer's design is to take the hits with everything they carry (being simple damage, condition or hard CC) in order to keep alive the slight hope of sending back conditions and fulfill this failed purpose of being the "condition manipulation" profession.

 

For the next e-spec I'd bet anyday on minionmaster spec (new set of minions, set of turrets or set of spirits) or something related to sel ailment rather than ANet giving an hypothetic block or evade to the necromancer.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > The thematic I would go for are bones. Make necromancer some kind of "bone knight", with shield as a new weapon (with nice skin, maybe looking like a ripcage?).

> > Summoning walls made of bone to protect himself (and potentially allies) with, covering himself in a bone armor to increase his tankiness, that kind of stuff. Should have alot of blocks to stay alive on the battlefield while piercing enemies with bone splinters.

>

> You're suggesting scourge 2.0 here. Barrier is basically the bone armor and shades are basically putting up bones walls.

>

> ANet won't give block or evade to the necromancer because the necromancer's design is to take the hits with everything they carry (being simple damage, condition or hard CC) in order to keep alive the slight hope of sending back conditions and fulfill this failed purpose of being the "condition manipulation" profession.

>

> For the next e-spec I'd bet anyday on minionmaster spec (new set of minions, set of turrets or set of spirits) or something related to sel ailment rather than ANet giving an hypothetic block or evade to the necromancer.

 

Wouldn't be too sure about necromancer not getting blocks or evades.

Scourge has proven that Anet is willing to make bigger changes to the shroud mechanic than just switching out the 5 skills in it (which they did for reaper).

 

If necromancer, for example, completely loses the ability to use life force as a second health bar (which they still didn't really do for scourge, since you can use life force to generate barrier) and replace it with castable spells which provide active defenses like blocks instead, I think this could work out.

 

And I really doubt that they will give necromancer a minionmaster spec.

Why give a class which already has the minionmaster playstyle, even the best functioning minionmaster playstyle of any class when it comes to PvE.

And you also have a wide array of traits to enhance your minions with, with 3 major traits in death magic (1 for each tier) and 1 minor trait in blood magic.

In comparison, engineer has 1 trait in total to buff their turrets.

 

Minionmaster is simply not needed for necromancer, they already have that playstyle and are actually successful with it to some degree.

Elite specs are supposed to bring something new to the class, which I think minions would fail to achieve.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> In my opinion, the elite specs so far can roughly get seperated in 3 roles: dps, bruiser, support

>

> From these 3 roles, necromancer already has the dps spec (reaper) and the support spec (scourge).

> Which leaves us with the bruiser spec.

>

I think that's nonsense. Also necro technically doesn't have a dps spec. It has a mix between dps and bruiser. But not a real dps nor a real bruiser spec.

 

Also the support build is very lackluster in a lot of cases. Basically unplayable in wvw and PvP and in pve it's only good for bad groups, but as soon as a group gets better, you will first replace the support scourge.

 

 

 

> So I think the best would be to change the death shroud in some way (to make the defense not too oppressive) in exchange of giving necromancer access to more active defense like blocks, evades, etc.

>

> Such an elite spec _could_ be mobile, daredevil for example serves as the thief bruiser elite spec and is highly mobile, but I would personally not wish necromancer to be like that.

> The thematic I would go for are bones. Make necromancer some kind of "bone knight", with shield as a new weapon (with nice skin, maybe looking like a ripcage?).

> Summoning walls made of bone to protect himself (and potentially allies) with, covering himself in a bone armor to increase his tankiness, that kind of stuff. Should have alot of blocks to stay alive on the battlefield while piercing enemies with bone splinters.

>

> With that thematic, keeping the necromancer fairly immobile seems more appropriate. But you still gain alot of survivability through the new blocks.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> Wouldn't be too sure about necromancer not getting blocks or evades.

> Scourge has proven that Anet is willing to make bigger changes to the shroud mechanic than just switching out the 5 skills in it (which they did for reaper).

>

 

Honestly, if scourge prove one thing it's that ANet want the necromancer to defend itself through health point. If the last nerf on necromancer's stability prove one thing it's that ANet don't intend for the necromancer to have a good ability to deal with CC.

 

> If necromancer, for example, completely loses the ability to use life force as a second health bar (which they still didn't really do for scourge, since you can use life force to generate barrier) and replace it with castable spells which provide active defenses like blocks instead, I think this could work out.

>

 

I doubt it. Not that it couldn't work but it's nearly been 8 years, if ANet had been willing to thread this path we would know by now. The design philosophy of the necromancer's defense have been criticized since the early days of the game and ANet didn't show any sign of them being unsatisfied by it. If anything they forced their way further down this philosophy again and again.

 

> And I really doubt that they will give necromancer a minionmaster spec.

> Why give a class which already has the minionmaster playstyle, even the best functioning minionmaster playstyle of any class when it comes to PvE.

> And you also have a wide array of traits to enhance your minions with, with 3 major traits in death magic (1 for each tier) and 1 minor trait in blood magic.

> In comparison, engineer has 1 trait in total to buff their turrets.

>

 

The advantage of the necromancer is that whether they put a new minion as utility or not, you won't be able to have more minions sloted in utility slot than you already got. Which mean that you won't have the possibility for minion's powercreep this way. The traits wouldn't have more impact for turrets, spirit or even new set of minions unless you got pets that cleave or attack significantly faster than the current one (which is highly unlikely).

 

> Minionmaster is simply not needed for necromancer, they already have that playstyle and are actually successful with it to some degree.

 

That's because it's unneeded that it's a safe option. Scrapper drones weren't needed yet they've put them into the game. It's to the point that they ended up changing them into wells.

 

> Elite specs are supposed to bring something new to the class, which I think minions would fail to achieve.

 

Nope, elite spec are supposed to strengthen an aspect of the profession's thematic and create a different way to play it. A turret necromancer is bound to be played differently than a minion master, just like a spirit necromancer will be bond to be played differently as well. If you compare the necromancer's elite specs to the elite skills of the core profession, reaper is inspired from "spectral" (transformation) and scourge is inspired from "corruption" (condi aoe). That leave us with the "minion" and minions suck at defending themselves.

[lare.5129]

ante can always impress us, and this is one of reason why we play gw2. So I predict not any changes with class systems. One more elite? no it is bored.

So no more "mobilites" for necro.

[Anchoku.8142]

I always have difficulty understanding what people mean by "bruiser." Do they mean "bunker" instead because bruiser clearly does not mean dps. Bruiser sounds impressive but seems to mean only more sustain with less damage output yet having no support capability. Anyone can build that from any profession. It does not give an impression of having a special "role" to fulfill.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Honestly, if scourge prove one thing it's that ANet want the necromancer to defend itself through health point. If the last nerf on necromancer's stability prove one thing it's that ANet don't intend for the necromancer to have a good ability to deal with CC.

 

Except that it just made sense for scourge to let them defend themselves with barrier, since the entire elite spec was **built** around granting barrier?

It is a support spec meant to help your allies stay alive, they did it a new mechanic barrier. Why not just apply that barrier to the scourge themselves as the shroud replacement?

 

> I doubt it. Not that it couldn't work but it's nearly been 8 years, if ANet had been willing to thread this path we would know by now. The design philosophy of the necromancer's defense have been criticized since the early days of the game and ANet didn't show any sign of them being unsatisfied by it. If anything they forced their way further down this philosophy again and again.

 

They can always introduce something that the class didn't have access to before.

Thief didn't have any blocks in the past, they still got one added with daredevil.

 

> Nope, elite spec are supposed to strengthen an aspect of the profession's thematic and create a different way to play it. A turret necromancer is bound to be played differently than a minion master, just like a spirit necromancer will be bond to be played differently as well. If you compare the necromancer's elite specs to the elite skills of the core profession, reaper is inspired from "spectral" (transformation) and scourge is inspired from "corruption" (condi aoe). That leave us with the "minion" and minions suck at defending themselves.

 

I don't think so.

Ranger has **never** been known to be any good for healing. They got druid added as an elite spec, which is entirely built around group healing. Something that ranger legit sucked at before, hence why they created the elite spec in the first place, because it was filling a gameplay niche that ranger was absolutely unable to fill before.

 

Same applies for necromancer. How many "support necros" did you see run around before we got scourge?

I can say that I legit never saw a single one. Because necromancer was terrible at it, the support playstyle was just not available for them. With scourge, they got it.

 

I can go on with that.

Deadeye? Long range dps, thieves were complaining for ages that they don't have a long range dps weapon and that this playstyle is unavailable for them.

Daredevil is the same, it is a bruiser thief spec that enables them to play the thief equivalent of a tank. Thematically, it is done to still be thief flavoured, meaning that alot of that tankiness comes from dodging, weakening the enemy, blinding... but they still got new toys for their tank role, like a block.

 

It is pretty obvious that elite specs are supposed to fill gameplay niches which were not already filled for the classes.

Minionmaster for necromancer is not one of these, they already have that playstyle. And they even are one of the very few who can **successfully** utilise that playstyle.

This is not filling any niche. That is doubling up on something they already have.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

My vote would be sword/sword. Necro needs better MH and OH options, although I'd take mace/mace.

 

It does need better mobility and defense, and whatever e-spec comes about needs to have a stronger non-shroud game. I love my Reaper, but Reaper GS needs to be quicker than it is.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > Nope, elite spec are supposed to strengthen an aspect of the profession's thematic and create a different way to play it. A turret necromancer is bound to be played differently than a minion master, just like a spirit necromancer will be bond to be played differently as well. If you compare the necromancer's elite specs to the elite skills of the core profession, reaper is inspired from "spectral" (transformation) and scourge is inspired from "corruption" (condi aoe). That leave us with the "minion" and minions suck at defending themselves.

>

> I don't think so.

> Ranger has **never** been known to be any good for healing. They got druid added as an elite spec, which is entirely built around group healing. Something that ranger legit sucked at before, hence why they created the elite spec in the first place, because it was filling a gameplay niche that ranger was absolutely unable to fill before.

>

Ranger was not known for anything but bearbow before HoT and druid. Thought that doesn't mean he was bad at healing or support (it just wasn't needed at this point of the game).

 

> Same applies for necromancer. How many "support necros" did you see run around before we got scourge?

For your personal culture, know that before HoT, necromancers desperate to find a place in PvE played "support heal" necromancer and they it was a strong unneeded option, capitalizing on the ability to grant perma regen thank to blood mark and heal through well of blood and trait effects.

 

> I can say that I legit never saw a single one. Because necromancer was terrible at it, the support playstyle was just not available for them. With scourge, they got it.

>

> I can go on with that.

> Deadeye? Long range dps, thieves were complaining for ages that they don't have a long range dps weapon and that this playstyle is unavailable for them.

> Daredevil is the same, it is a bruiser thief spec that enables them to play the thief equivalent of a tank. Thematically, it is done to still be thief flavoured, meaning that alot of that tankiness comes from dodging, weakening the enemy, blinding... but they still got new toys for their tank role, like a block.

>

Daredevil focus on dodge and I'm sure you've seen the threads complaining about how acro was spoiled of it's potential for the sake of DD when it was released. As for DE, I'm sorry but no, it just add to the gameplay of pistol thiefs. There is nothing really "new" to it's range gameplay. The increased "range" is not something comparable to what introducing a block into the necromancer's kit would mean.

 

> It is pretty obvious that elite specs are supposed to fill gameplay niches which were not already filled for the classes.

> Minionmaster for necromancer is not one of these, they already have that playstyle. And they even are one of the very few who can **successfully** utilise that playstyle.

> This is not filling any niche. That is doubling up on something they already have.

 

Like I said I disagree with you, I won't expand myself more on that.

[Redpawa.4108]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> I always have difficulty understanding what people mean by "bruiser." Do they mean "bunker" instead because bruiser clearly does not mean dps. Bruiser sounds impressive but seems to mean only more sustain with less damage output yet having no support capability. Anyone can build that from any profession. It does not give an impression of having a special "role" to fulfill.

 

I play WvW for context.

 

Bruiser essentially deal 80% of the damage of glass while having ~2x the survivability.

A good example is Marauder Reaper, You can easily pull off 30k health while still dealing 6k average, with peaks of 10k. Generally bruisers are frontlines in zerg fights, as they have enough damage to generate downs, but can take a few heavy hits, allowing healers to un-die them.

 

TLDR:

Bruiser -> Bunker

Bunker -> Glass

Glass -> Bruiser

 

 

[Redpawa.4108]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> It does need better mobility and defense, and whatever e-spec comes about needs to have a stronger non-shroud game. I love my Reaper, but Reaper GS needs to be quicker than it is.

 

I'd personally like to see sword or mace (probably mace) added baseline MH at some point. That being said, Shield would make the most sense for an elite weapon, especially after Jhavi was shown off with a shield in the past.

 

Ideally I'd want the espec to be shroudless spec with function skills being relative low cooldown skills, focused on sacrificing LF or Health. In exchange utilities could be primarily movement oriented so they can mixed in with existing skills to speed up gameplay, potentially some stability if anet wanted to get real spicy.

 

Having a mechanic to change the dodge could be interesting.

Baseline dodge: Evade for 1s, can cast abilities (not an issue because important necro casts are all 1.5s+, looking at mesmer)

Trait: Normal evade, Teleport to your target (ally or enemy)

Trait: Regular .75s, 2 1/2s Block afterwards

 

Overall I it would make sense if the next spec is brusiery with options to go more glassy (could finally break the 30k in PvE perhaps?)

[Lily.1935]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> In my opinion, the elite specs so far can roughly get seperated in 3 roles: dps, bruiser, support

>

> From these 3 roles, necromancer already has the dps spec (reaper) and the support spec (scourge).

> Which leaves us with the bruiser spec.

>

> So I think the best would be to change the death shroud in some way (to make the defense not too oppressive) in exchange of giving necromancer access to more active defense like blocks, evades, etc.

>

> Such an elite spec _could_ be mobile, daredevil for example serves as the thief bruiser elite spec and is highly mobile, but I would personally not wish necromancer to be like that.

> The thematic I would go for are bones. Make necromancer some kind of "bone knight", with shield as a new weapon (with nice skin, maybe looking like a ripcage?).

> Summoning walls made of bone to protect himself (and potentially allies) with, covering himself in a bone armor to increase his tankiness, that kind of stuff. Should have alot of blocks to stay alive on the battlefield while piercing enemies with bone splinters.

>

> With that thematic, keeping the necromancer fairly immobile seems more appropriate. But you still gain alot of survivability through the new blocks.

 

I'd argue Reaper is a bruiser not a proper DPS.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I'd argue Reaper is a bruiser not a proper DPS.

 

I think it might have _started_ as a bruiser, but the changes Anet made to reaper so far all indicate in the direction that it is supposed to be a dps spec.

Some examples of what I mean:

* cold shoulder increases your damage instead of decreasing the damage you take

* greatsword provides very little defense and alot of offense

* reaper's shroud is mostly damage with little defenses and as far as I know, it depletes faster than death shroud?

 

In general, the defenses reaper _does_ provide, are mostly damage reductions and healing. I have yet to see someone claiming that these make reaper as durable as a scrapper, for example. Some defenses are also used for dps specs, keep that in mind. Like holosmith got damage reduction, healing, and block, because it has to stay alive as a melee dps spec a bit. Same applies to reaper in my opinion. These defensive tools are there to keep it alive while dealing damage in melee, not to make it a real respectable tank.

 

Do you feel like reaper is heavily increasing your survivability, like scrapper or daredevil do for their classes? In my opinion, reaper has _some_ defensive tools to keep itself alive, considering that it is supposed to be up close in melee range. It's the same for holosmith, an elite spec that has to go in melee to deliver alot of their damage. But reaper doesn't really feel as defensive as the bruisers in the game and also not as centered around CC like them (daredevil, scrapper, spellbreaker, they all have alot of emphasis on CC).

 

But I am open to discussion, why you think reaper is supposed to be a bruiser specifically?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Redpawa.4108" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > It does need better mobility and defense, and whatever e-spec comes about needs to have a stronger non-shroud game. I love my Reaper, but Reaper GS needs to be quicker than it is.

>

> I'd personally like to see sword or mace (probably mace) added baseline MH at some point. That being said, Shield would make the most sense for an elite weapon, especially after Jhavi was shown off with a shield in the past.

>

> Ideally I'd want the espec to be shroudless spec with function skills being relative low cooldown skills, focused on sacrificing LF or Health. In exchange utilities could be primarily movement oriented so they can mixed in with existing skills to speed up gameplay, potentially some stability if anet wanted to get real spicy.

>

> Having a mechanic to change the dodge could be interesting.

> Baseline dodge: Evade for 1s, can cast abilities (not an issue because important necro casts are all 1.5s+, looking at mesmer)

> Trait: Normal evade, Teleport to your target (ally or enemy)

> Trait: Regular .75s, 2 1/2s Block afterwards

>

> Overall I it would make sense if the next spec is brusiery with options to go more glassy (could finally break the 30k in PvE perhaps?)

 

I would prefer dual wielding personally so that we get more new skills. For those dodges you're looking at getting the Mirage treatment and only having one dodge. Although a dodge/teleport would be cool and fun, it would have to be a short teleport.

 

Honestly I would like 'hybrid' dps weapons. Let the top line of traits focus on condi, the middle line focus on power, and the bottom line focus on mobility/defense.

 

Lets assume sword/sword here.

 

AA Chain: Each strikes 3 foes, moderate power damage, with slightly more on the last strike, poison on the first hit, bleed on the second, poison and bleed on the third.

Sword 2: strike multiple times in front of you, applying bleed with each strike (6 strikes, moderate power damage). 6s CD.

Sword 3: upon blocking an attack (any attack) you teleport to your target (might not be the person who attacked you) and strike them moderate power damage several stacks of poison and bleed, 1200 range teleport with evade frames on the strike. Leap finisher. 15s CD

Sword 4: Throw sword, 900 range, Chill and apply vulnerability foe strike, small power damage, flips over to another skill with a 900 range teleport that blinds in an area and removes 1 boon on the target, small power damage. Leap finisher. 10s CD on base skill, 20s on flipover skill.

Sword 5: Curse the area around you, applies a dark field that pulses bleed, poison, and blind. Slightly less than moderate power damage per pulse, pulses 1/second for 5 seconds. 20s CD.

 

Example top traits:

Apply torment when you bleed a foe

Swords grant increased condi damage per sword equipped, +20% CD reduction

Chilling a foe applies burn stacks (5s ICD, but something like 2 stacks of burn)

 

Mid

Deal increased damage (5%) versus poisoned foes,

Teleports strike around you final location dealing 1000 (0.5 scaling) damage, no crit, unblockable and removes 2 boons.

Deal 15% more damage to foes close to you, receive 15% less damage from foes close to you. (300 range)

 

Bot

Teleports grant you swiftness

Swiftness grants you enhanced movement speed (total of +50% movement speed)

Gain Aegis when you gain swiftness (there would have to be an ICD, probably 15s if I know Anet)

 

utilities/heal/elite

No clue what the 'type' would be, but with the theme going so far I guess Deceptions.

 

Heal: Heal for a small amount, heal for 25% of all damage dealt, tie into whatever shroud changes into here. 25s CD

1st utility should be a short range teleport that breaks stuns and grants stability. 40s CD

2nd utility should blind in an area, rip boons, and grant regen. 25s CD

3rd utility should apply cripple, chill, and weakness in an area, cleanse 2 conditions. 25s CD

4th utility should be a skill that provides 2s of physical damage immunity, flavor it as merging with the darkness. Break stuns. 40s CD

Elite: Ammo skill, 2 charges, 45s recharge on ammo uses, 10s CD between charges. Teleport to target area and applying blind and weakness.

 

Like Scourge, Life Force becomes a resource.

 

F1 becomes a teleport (600 range) 40s CD.

F2-F4 apply affects that proc when you teleport, each has a 5s duration before the effect is lost. Can all be active at the same time. These would apply to any teleport not just F1

F2: Grant Protection and Regeneration in an area on teleport (3s each) 15s CD

F3: Transfer conditions to nearby foes 25s CD

F4: Stun foes in the area 2s 30s CD

F5: Activate 'Shroud' for on teleport. Like Desert Shroud where it pulses an effect for the duration and counts as shroud for traits. Grants 25% damage reduction, 10% increased damage and 10% increased condition damage for the duration. 15s CD but consumes all Life Force upon activation, 10s duration if a full pool is consumed, 7.5s duration if between 75% and 100% LF, 5s duration if between 50% and 75% LF, etc. 2.5s minimum duration.

 

I'm not sure what the minor traits would be, the loss of the full shroud would be a 'drawback' in and of itself, but I can see a stat penalty being levied as well in order to balance it. Perhaps the minors could focus on dodging.

 

 

[Lily.1935]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > I'd argue Reaper is a bruiser not a proper DPS.

>

> I think it might have _started_ as a bruiser, but the changes Anet made to reaper so far all indicate in the direction that it is supposed to be a dps spec.

> Some examples of what I mean:

> * cold shoulder increases your damage instead of decreasing the damage you take

> * greatsword provides very little defense and alot of offense

> * reaper's shroud is mostly damage with little defenses and as far as I know, it depletes faster than death shroud?

>

> In general, the defenses reaper _does_ provide, are mostly damage reductions and healing. I have yet to see someone claiming that these make reaper as durable as a scrapper, for example. Some defenses are also used for dps specs, keep that in mind. Like holosmith got damage reduction, healing, and block, because it has to stay alive as a melee dps spec a bit. Same applies to reaper in my opinion. These defensive tools are there to keep it alive while dealing damage in melee, not to make it a real respectable tank.

>

> Do you feel like reaper is heavily increasing your survivability, like scrapper or daredevil do for their classes? In my opinion, reaper has _some_ defensive tools to keep itself alive, considering that it is supposed to be up close in melee range. It's the same for holosmith, an elite spec that has to go in melee to deliver alot of their damage. But reaper doesn't really feel as defensive as the bruisers in the game and also not as centered around CC like them (daredevil, scrapper, spellbreaker, they all have alot of emphasis on CC).

>

> But I am open to discussion, why you think reaper is supposed to be a bruiser specifically?

 

Greatsword has a lot of life force gen, it also has an AOE blind field. I wouldn't say its pure DPS, but necromancers don't have good DPS weapons except for like, Scepter so GS gets a pass. As for traits they have both a DPS line and a defensive line up top with some offense. But Brusiers aren't devoid of damage, they tend to have quite a bit of it along with bulk. Reaper's shroud has a Ranged block on its charge as well as damage reduction with stability. They're a brusier. Specifically they're sorta supposed to be a tank or DPS. So since they fit both they're a bruiser. At least that's how I see it.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > I'd argue Reaper is a bruiser not a proper DPS.

> >

> > I think it might have _started_ as a bruiser, but the changes Anet made to reaper so far all indicate in the direction that it is supposed to be a dps spec.

> > Some examples of what I mean:

> > * cold shoulder increases your damage instead of decreasing the damage you take

> > * greatsword provides very little defense and alot of offense

> > * reaper's shroud is mostly damage with little defenses and as far as I know, it depletes faster than death shroud?

> >

> > In general, the defenses reaper _does_ provide, are mostly damage reductions and healing. I have yet to see someone claiming that these make reaper as durable as a scrapper, for example. Some defenses are also used for dps specs, keep that in mind. Like holosmith got damage reduction, healing, and block, because it has to stay alive as a melee dps spec a bit. Same applies to reaper in my opinion. These defensive tools are there to keep it alive while dealing damage in melee, not to make it a real respectable tank.

> >

> > Do you feel like reaper is heavily increasing your survivability, like scrapper or daredevil do for their classes? In my opinion, reaper has _some_ defensive tools to keep itself alive, considering that it is supposed to be up close in melee range. It's the same for holosmith, an elite spec that has to go in melee to deliver alot of their damage. But reaper doesn't really feel as defensive as the bruisers in the game and also not as centered around CC like them (daredevil, scrapper, spellbreaker, they all have alot of emphasis on CC).

> >

> > But I am open to discussion, why you think reaper is supposed to be a bruiser specifically?

>

> Greatsword has a lot of life force gen, it also has an AOE blind field. I wouldn't say its pure DPS, but necromancers don't have good DPS weapons except for like, Scepter so GS gets a pass. As for traits they have both a DPS line and a defensive line up top with some offense. But Brusiers aren't devoid of damage, they tend to have quite a bit of it along with bulk. Reaper's shroud has a Ranged block on its charge as well as damage reduction with stability. They're a brusier. Specifically they're sorta supposed to be a tank or DPS. So since they fit both they're a bruiser. At least that's how I see it.

 

You make alot of good points and I admit that I also struggled for a while if I should put reaper in dps or bruiser, since they historically have been something between these 2.

 

Bruisers are not devoid of damage, but dps specs are also not devoid of defense. Holosmith has a damage reduction trait while in photon forge, barrier generation in photon forge, utility skills provide both defense and offense mostly...

What made me decide to call them out as the dps class for necromancer has been the fact that the changes Anet made over time to reaper were mostly decreasing it's tankiness (no damage reduction from chilled enemies, increased depletion of reaper's shroud..).

 

Stability is a fair point, since this becomes a trademark of the bruisers for some time now. But consider: holosmith also used to have stability on their photon forge in the past before they changed it to barrier.

I don't really see them fitting the role of a tank here, since in my opinion they kinda lack defensive abilities for that role and many of their defense got taken away.

 

Could be that they are supposed to be bruisers. We will have to wait and see, I guess, but looking at what Anet has done to reaper so far, I have the feeling that they are supposed to be the dps spec.

And in my opinion, they should be the dps spec thematically, too. Reaper's and their scythes just strike me as something extremely aggressive, especially with their shouts "nothing can save you", "you are all weaklings", "suffer", "your soul is mine"... I would welcome it if Anet makes reaper the primary dps spec of necromancer and give us another necro spec for the bruiser role, which actually also says "tanky" in their thematic. Like I mentioned with the idea of some kind of bone armored warrior, for example.

[KrHome.1920]

No elite spec is a glass cannon, bruiser or tank by definition - at least this is not intended and if it happens at all, then it is the result of a failed balancing attempt.

 

Every elite spec traitline has traits for: utility, damage and sustain in each tier. And the way you combine these defines your build.

[Orack.9756]

I just want a spe that don't touch shroud or at least keep it "mage ranged feeling"

Scourge doesn't feel like a dps at all and reaper is just a close quarter fighter.

I really want a true Necro, a magical one, core is close to be the one, but idk, it feel very lackluster.