babazhook.6805 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) As to those times it bugs out, I get plenty of blind via the SA spec line which synergizes so well with rifle VIA CIS. (kneel stealths and blinds stand and DR away kneel fire. if the DR fails he still blinded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZvolTx.3165 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 You can tell who is playing SA permastealth and who isn't based on their stance on DR. I exclusively play DE without SA, usually DA TR DE (222 on DE) and use DR far more than DJ. In fact, the only times I really use DJ is when I'm trying to bypass an auto invuln trait. DR allows for some fantastic kiting and fairly good Condi removal against heavy pressure condition builds such as scourge. Burst condis, it's a lot more limited, though. The only problems with it are the occasional bugging near terrain and it could use a blind in addition to the poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @ZvolTx.3165 said: > You can tell who is playing SA permastealth and who isn't based on their stance on DR. > > I exclusively play DE without SA, usually DA TR DE (222 on DE) and use DR far more than DJ. In fact, the only times I really use DJ is when I'm trying to bypass an auto invuln trait. DR allows for some fantastic kiting and fairly good Condi removal against heavy pressure condition builds such as scourge. Burst condis, it's a lot more limited, though. The only problems with it are the occasional bugging near terrain and it could use a blind in addition to the poison. No , you can not tell any such thing from the stand on DR. The times DR bugs out and preventa retreat are not overly great and IMHO does not warrant a trait that does not help you given you generally at range anyways. I also played p/d build before the onset of DE and it has a skill very much like DR which could also "bug out" but never saw a need for a blind there either. Blind is great for melee sets The main reason you play SA is not to "permastealth" it to cleanse conditions and to have significant suvival up time at Melee range and or to rip or corrupt boons. RS, Shadows Rejuv . SE and CIS all prvide significant advantages over DA and the Condi cleanse is several grades above fairly good when used in conjunction with DR. DA certainly has an advantage in raw damage out but I find the SA line is a direct counter against the specs that give DE the most trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @kash.9213 said: > > I use it with about face for map travel but as janky as it is, I still use it a lot in fights also. I think as with most things DE, you try to think at least two steps ahead so you can use DE stuff at least one step ahead and it sort of works out. I get most complaints about it and I'm on board with them even if I'm not having much trouble with the skill. I think my main gripe right now is that I can flip backwards off of a cliff or down to another level, but I can't about face and take the same trajectory upwards. Let me do both or let me do neither. > > As useful as it is, the bug that is STILL on it that will WASTE the thief's precious initiative is STILL completely unacceptable. Meanwhile the other specs are getting plenty of bug fixes :/ Late reply but you're absolutely right that it's unacceptable how unreliable it is, regardless of how some people might be able to work around it's problems, it's a pretty key skill for rifle and the chance of it bugging out or not will decide a fight for you. It's not instant, it's not an evade, it's orientation is not generally instinctive and doesn't work well with most key binding and user settings unless fine tuned personally for each player in favor of that skill, and it's range will put you out of a circle but you'll likely have to burn double initiative to clear everything to a point you can stay on rifle instead of having to go to melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. Leaving rifle aside. Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertep.2498 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. > > The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. > > Leaving rifle aside. > > Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. > > We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. > > There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. > > > but for the heck is poison to this death retreat? you wont build any good damage on it and it cant be spammed on target because this target need to be at you to get hit from this, seriously more useful will be blind as for retreat to not get any ranged hit from enemy while using this while posion will do nothing from you to him because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just piss on this pathetic poison. just as well this skill could be without this poison and this wont make any significant difference as for retreat skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Vertep.2498 said: > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > > > > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. > > > > The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. > > > > Leaving rifle aside. > > > > Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. > > > > We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. > > > > There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. > > > > > > > > but for the heck is poison to this death retreat? > you wont build any good damage on it and it cant be spammed on target because this target need to be at you to get hit from this, seriously more useful will be blind as for retreat to not get any ranged hit from enemy while using this while posion will do nothing from you to him because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just kitten on this pathetic poison. > > just as well this skill could be without this poison and this wont make any significant difference as for retreat skill I want poison to prevent heals as any power build would want poison. its not for damage. it for fighting warriors and their haling signet and adrenal and might makes right , or the guardian and druids with all of their ongoing heals. Are you not aware that poison cuts healing by 33 percent? It one of the major reaons power builds take the DA line over CS. If I retreat to range poison and less healing on my target does more good then does a blind. if a a melee fighter he can not hit me anyways as he at 600 range. As to preventing damage from range it all of one shot and it gone. I am ahead with the enemy getting a 5 k heal instead of an 8 k heal. (which in essence is 3k damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertep.2498 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > > @Vertep.2498 said: > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > > > > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > > > > > > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. > > > > > > The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. > > > > > > Leaving rifle aside. > > > > > > Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. > > > > > > We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. > > > > > > There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > but for the heck is poison to this death retreat? > > you wont build any good damage on it and it cant be spammed on target because this target need to be at you to get hit from this, seriously more useful will be blind as for retreat to not get any ranged hit from enemy while using this while posion will do nothing from you to him because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just kitten on this pathetic poison. > > > > just as well this skill could be without this poison and this wont make any significant difference as for retreat skill > > I want poison to prevent heals as any power build would want poison. its not for damage. it for fighting warriors and their haling signet and adrenal and might makes right , or the guardian with all of their ongoing heals. Are you not aware that poison cuts healing by 33 percent? It one of the major reaons power builds take the DA line over CS. > > > > > > no Im not much aware about this because if I will chose to use this skill for seriously retreat I dont see I will be able to kill or atlest damage this target significant damage in closer time, for 1st I need to kite him away from me and then just LoS which will take a bit time before I will find again proper place to shot him again where even with poison debuff Im sure they will recover their health so as for me more useful could be this blind to make sure for you they will miss their next attack on you when you used this death retreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Vertep.2498 said: > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > @Vertep.2498 said: > > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > > > > > > > > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. > > > > > > > > The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. > > > > > > > > Leaving rifle aside. > > > > > > > > Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. > > > > > > > > We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. > > > > > > > > There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but for the heck is poison to this death retreat? > > > you wont build any good damage on it and it cant be spammed on target because this target need to be at you to get hit from this, seriously more useful will be blind as for retreat to not get any ranged hit from enemy while using this while posion will do nothing from you to him because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just kitten on this pathetic poison. > > > > > > just as well this skill could be without this poison and this wont make any significant difference as for retreat skill > > > > I want poison to prevent heals as any power build would want poison. its not for damage. it for fighting warriors and their haling signet and adrenal and might makes right , or the guardian with all of their ongoing heals. Are you not aware that poison cuts healing by 33 percent? It one of the major reaons power builds take the DA line over CS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no Im not much aware about this because if I will chose to use this skill for seriously retreat I dont see I will be able to kill or atlest damage this target significant damage in closer time, for 1st I need to kite him away from me and then just LoS which will take a bit time before I will find again proper place to shot him again where even with poison debuff Im sure they will recover their health > so as for me more useful could be this blind to make sure for you they will miss their next attack on you when you used this death retreat Trust me , I play a warrior as well and my sustain is seriously compromised by Poison. in a DE build you fight the Spellbreaker by kiting wherein you retreat and fire. if he gets close you DR away and apply poison. You want to keep poison up on warriors as long as you can as you do any other build with that type of healing. I akso take CIS so I get a blind anyways . Stealth when you at melee and he can HIT you and you have him blinded. There more weaponsets with a blind available then there is poison. I would point out that if you DO take DA poison will alos apply weakness. Poison + weakness>blind in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphorite.6192 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Vertep.2498 said: > ...because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just kitten on this pathetic poison.... You could do a condi build tho? I'm sure it's possible to pull off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Phosphorite.6192 said: > > @Vertep.2498 said: > > ...because you as rifle user wont have build for condi and enemy will just kitten on this pathetic poison.... > > You could do a condi build tho? I'm sure it's possible to pull off. That possible as well where you rely on immob off Rifle for poison adds via potent poison along with a venom. . These builds can wreak havoc on scourge given the steal off the scourge is a pile of bleeds. The issue is however the use of INI given there no condition apps off the AA and DR combined with immob spam costs a lot of INI. My thinking is a hybrid using grievers would work better then a pure condition Rifle spec as you could rely more heavily on the AA damage coupled with Cursed Bullet for boon corruption for those times where you have no INI left. I work towards that sort of build in time once I get a full grievers set in WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphorite.6192 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > That possible as well where you rely on immob off Rifle for poison adds via potent poison along with a venom. . These builds can wreak havoc on scourge given the steal off the scourge is a pile of bleeds. The issue is however the use of INI given there no condition apps off the AA and DR combined with immob spam costs a lot of INI. My thinking is a hybrid using grievers would work better then a pure condition Rifle spec as you could rely more heavily on the AA damage coupled with Cursed Bullet for boon corruption for those times where you have no INI left. I work towards that sort of build in time once I get a full grievers set in WvW True, in a pure condition sense rifle is pretty much a worse Pistol, same #2 spam without the bleed on AA. I still want to experiment with it, especially with the traits and utility skills, since Needletrap or Caltrops aren't exactly of much use in a distance build with rifle~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?). > > > > > > > > > > That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle. > > > > > > > > Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness. > > > > > > Personaly I prefer posion so as to check healing and especially if one not going DA line. I find it superior to blind and especially against spellbreaker and Guardian type builds, given I can generally get to range in any case where they are not going to be hitting me. Added to that , I find the weapons that complement Rifle best, and those I might switch to if forced to melee, already have blind even as they lack poison (s/p p/p d/p) > > > > We already have a lot of access to poison though. Blind is rear. > > The way I see it when we look at weapons there more blind sources then poison sources. > > Leaving rifle aside. > > Poison only comes from Dagger and SB. > > We have blind on Pistol (OH) , staff, SB and Sword (limited granted but there no poison). While you can certainly get poison from traits and utilities, you can do the same with blind . That said I am more interested in the what the weapon offers So I am not tied to a trait or utility just to get that posion as this leaves room for more flexible builds. We throw blind on rifle and 4/6 weapons we use have blind compared to two with poison. > > There more combo fields that we have access to that blind as well as only SB provides a field for poison. The s/p , p/p and d/p cpmboes all have a field that can allow blinds. > As I said above, I don't want it on a Rifle, so I'm talking about putting more blind in traits so it wouldn't matter what weapon you choose. A lot of the poisons and blinds are weapon specific. I have never been a big fan of traits that are weapon specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastel.9157 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 My brain cannot accept that the same button is both a backward flip thats only 1 melee range or something, and then its also a high dmg shot. So I never use the backward flip....I just use the button when I am kneeling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It's vertical port reliability is shoddy at best, unfortunately. I tested some areas I usually SB5 to in the DBL, and even though it looks like I am standing in the same spots, it only works about half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Rastel.9157 said: > My brain cannot accept that the same button is both a backward flip thats only 1 melee range or something, and then its also a high dmg shot. So I never use the backward flip....I just use the button when I am kneeling! Only to find yourself backflipping into a cliff and die thinking that you're kneeling or a CC pulled you out of kneel status. Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Rastel.9157 said: > My brain cannot accept that the same button is both a backward flip thats only 1 melee range or something, and then its also a high dmg shot. So I never use the backward flip....I just use the button when I am kneeling! Trick your brain into thinking of Kneel as a third weapon switch. The recent update to Deaths Retreat made it's direction a little more deliberate but I've noticed that some of my daily hurdles I make on various maps are either less or more accessible so you'll have to fine tune your usual jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellisande.5218 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @babazhook.6805 said: > Overstated. If traited to use rifle with Kneel , you are rarely interrupted due to range and stealth. What game are you playing? Can't be the same one as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deifact.3095 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I think it's OK now it seems a bit less buggy. I'd rather they just removed the Poison effect from it though and also decreasing the initiative cost, or swap the poison for a brief cripple or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > @babazhook.6805 said: > > > Overstated. If traited to use rifle with Kneel , you are rarely interrupted due to range and stealth. > > What game are you playing? Can't be the same one as me. I play the same game. You do not play the same way. Deaths retreat works fine and even better with bug fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urejt.5648 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 i hope they buff rifle 4. Its very weak escape tool. Lower cost by 1 initiative or increase range to 900 units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @Urejt.5648 said: > i hope they buff rifle 4. Its very weak escape tool. Lower cost by 1 initiative or increase range to 900 units. I think for what it does both suggstions warranted. The INI cost at the very least is too high as the skill very comparable to Shadowstrike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I'd be in favor of a small initiative cut. I almost never use retreat once, it's always a double jump for retreating, travel, or for leaving some quick poison somewhere but that takes a double jump also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Lowering the Initiative cost by 1 alone would see a huge increase in this skill's use. On top of that a better vertical port would be helpful (or remove its ability to shadowstep vertically altogether). As it stands, you have to try to aim your Death's Retreat to have the very edge of whatever ledge you are porting to be right around the max range of the port. It's difficult to gauge when there is no red/green circle as there are with SS or IA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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