Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Josiah.2967" said: > Anyone else surprised that the signet does less healing than the minion? With the added range, I am actually surprised. Not at all. Its actually what i expected so the heals could be different from one another besides the type of skill it is. Signet: Damage > Healing Minion: Healing > Damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Josiah.2967" said: > > Anyone else surprised that the signet does less healing than the minion? With the added range, I am actually surprised. > > Not at all. Its actually what i expected so the heals could be different from one another besides the type of skill it is. > Signet: Damage > Healing > Minion: Healing > Damage Works for me. If it does more DPS I will be using it in raids on my Necro... It will have a place from DPS alone. I still count down the day where I'm not asked to swap because of the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realviizz.4982 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"realviizz.4982" said: > > Is it just me or did they reduce the number of targets for Manifest Sand Shade and Nefarious Favor? I thought it was 5 targets for those two skills. It's now 3. Atleast for WvW/PvP it now seems to be 3. I don't see any mention of this in the patch notes either. > > CMC said this was going to happen so its probably missing and will be in some late notes. Ty for the info, it's sometimes hard to keep track of what people say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Signet of Undeath was nerfed btw. Traited it does only grant additional 33% of LF instead of the previous 50%. And of course it was not even unsplit in PvP, so there it's even worse than it was several years ago where it granted 3% when traited. Signet of Vampirism is a joke now in the competitive modes. I will mess around with a Signet based build running Blighter's Boon and the new Dread a bit (and check if it can compensate Onslaught), but I doubt it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Comment I answered got deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazut.4296 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 All I dream about is a proper healing weapon. Will be a great addition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... ANet logic: "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" "Lets nerf them!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > ANet logic: > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > "Lets nerf them!" > If this happened any other time, I would think you were being sarcastic; however, now I shake my head. You think after the offhand update and revamped death magic...I would have learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Josiah.2967" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > ANet logic: > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > If this happened any other time, I would think you were being sarcastic; however, now I shake my head. You think after the offhand update and revamped death magic...I would have learned. Or Anet just having a flawed understanding of making 'buffs'. Rephrased it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > ANet logic: > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > "Lets nerf them!" > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe (the question that has to be answered is not if it is now stronger than before the update, but if it is now a more valid choice than before compared to the other two traits we can chose). ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that it has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits, and at least for PvE instanced content it is now the most powerful option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > ANet logic: > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. > > Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. > Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. > > Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. > > For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe. ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that is has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits. > > > > I’ll copy my precedent comment: > _It seems to be higher from the first testings, but it could be because of RNG. > > It provides 270 extra Power while in Shroud, with Signet of Spite (20 more than Awaken the Pain). Outside of Shroud we would have 250 less power at 25 Might stacks, but most of our damage comes from Shroud, thanks to the additional Ferocity. Also, now there is also Well of Darkness increasing our damage in Shroud, in addition to Nightfall and Well of Suffering. > > Then, there is Signet of Vampirism that deals some damage every second while in Shroud, thanks to Signets of Suffering. > > It could really be the best choice DPS wise, even sustained. It will probably be better in Fractal where damage bursts are more effective. > > Edit: after more testing I think the DPS is very similar anyway. While a huge portion of our dps does come from Reaper's Shroud, you would be making an already weak out of shroud rotation MUCH weaker by that 250 reduction in power, to the point that it will drag the rest of the dps very heavily. The damage from Signet of Vampirism is not enough to make up for GS doing less damage. For the most ideal dps rotation, you do not want to stay in shroud for much longer than your Soul Barbs is active, ergo keeping the time you have without Soul Barbs active for as little as possible. It's more worth taking SoS if you are running alone with no one to give you much might I think. In Fractals, Awaken the Pain will still win out if you have a HB. If you enjoy Signet play fair play to you and it works in open world and lower tier fractals. But for high end PvE, with an organized group, Awaken the Pain will win out every time. I am glad, however, that I am able to take Signet of Vampirism instead of Blood Fiend even without SoS because having minions is annoying as they can keep you in combat and the active on the signet I find better than the minion and it is technically a party/squad wide damage increase with the 25 stacks of life siphon on it...not that that will be use purposefully in a dps rotation as the cast time is too long but at least if you do have to heal you can squeeze some more damage out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > > > ANet logic: > > > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > > > > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. > > > > Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. > > Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. > > > > Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. > > > > For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe. ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that is has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits. > > > > > > > > I’ll copy my precedent comment: > > _It seems to be higher from the first testings, but it could be because of RNG. > > > > It provides 270 extra Power while in Shroud, with Signet of Spite (20 more than Awaken the Pain). Outside of Shroud we would have 250 less power at 25 Might stacks, but most of our damage comes from Shroud, thanks to the additional Ferocity. Also, now there is also Well of Darkness increasing our damage in Shroud, in addition to Nightfall and Well of Suffering. > > > > Then, there is Signet of Vampirism that deals some damage every second while in Shroud, thanks to Signets of Suffering. > > > > It could really be the best choice DPS wise, even sustained. It will probably be better in Fractal where damage bursts are more effective. > > > > Edit: after more testing I think the DPS is very similar anyway. > > While a huge portion of our dps does come from Reaper's Shroud, you would be making an already weak out of shroud rotation MUCH weaker by that 250 reduction in power, to the point that it will drag the rest of the dps very heavily. The damage from Signet of Vampirism is not enough to make up for GS doing less damage. For the most ideal dps rotation, you do not want to stay in shroud for much longer than your Soul Barbs is active, ergo keeping the time you have without Soul Barbs active for as little as possible. > > It's more worth taking SoS if you are running alone with no one to give you much might I think. In Fractals, Awaken the Pain will still win out if you have a HB. > If you enjoy Signet play fair play to you and it works in open world and lower tier fractals. But for high end PvE, with an organized group, Awaken the Pain will win out every time. I am glad, however, that I am able to take Signet of Vampirism instead of Blood Fiend even without SoS because having minions is annoying as they can keep you in combat and the active on the signet I find better than the minion and it is technically a party/squad wide damage increase with the 25 stacks of life siphon on it...not that that will be use purposefully in a dps rotation as the cast time is too long but at least if you do have to heal you can squeeze some more damage out. I can say what I said because I’ve tested the traits (really not enough yet, and initially the RNG favoured SoS a lot). I have not tried it staying in Shroud for a long time, but executing a proper rotation to try maximising the DPS. Most of the damage is made in Shroud even if you play properly with Soul Barbs, and that makes the additional power while in Shroud more relevant (I don’t know how much). DPS wise, the difference between the two choices will probably be small, nothing “heavy” in favour of Awaken of the Pain [now I think “it” (Awaken the Pain) could win by about 2%, but I’m getting inconsistent results, I hate how much RNG there is in Reaper rotation]. There is one thing I can add in favour of Awaken the Pain, if someone can’t execute all the Shroud part of the rotation cause it took too much damage, then the power loss will really drag down the DPS a lot (but there is a great solution among the Signets of Suffering builds: slotting Signet of Undeath). Signet of Undeath alongside Signet of Spite and Well of Suffering or Well of Darkness (with Signets of Suffering), is still a viable and powerful choice for anyone that feel the necessity to have more Life Force generation (the DPS loss seems similar to before the balance patch, it could be only 4-5% less than the the build that provide the best potential DPS). It provides much more reliable DPS and better survivability for a minor DPS loss. Also less need to lose DPS by avoiding damage when the support is bad (in cases like those, that become the build with the highest DPS). Usually, you know you need more Life Force generation when you can’t execute all your rotation without any pause. It is very common when playing some Raids (even in groups with high LI requirements) or some high level Fractals with “pugs”, for the vast majority of power Reapers. It is still important to learn to avoid what you can avoid without losing DPS, and to dodge certain attacks that “you can’t just tank”. Obviously I’m talking about something that could be optimal for most Reapers to complete the most difficult instanced PvE group contents that the game provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorstator.8735 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 What about traits for healing scourge? I imagine in groups you would still wanna take life from death over vampirism presence and transfusion over blood bank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Devorstator.8735" said: > What about traits for healing scourge? I imagine in groups you would still wanna take life from death over vampirism presence and transfusion over blood bank? Yes. Transfusion is the Scourge main heal and a great skill to ress allies, while Blood Bank is only for self survivability (it don’t give anything to allies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > > > > > ANet logic: > > > > > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > > > > > > > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. > > > > > > Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. > > > Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. > > > > > > Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. > > > > > > For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe. ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that is has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll copy my precedent comment: > > > _It seems to be higher from the first testings, but it could be because of RNG. > > > > > > It provides 270 extra Power while in Shroud, with Signet of Spite (20 more than Awaken the Pain). Outside of Shroud we would have 250 less power at 25 Might stacks, but most of our damage comes from Shroud, thanks to the additional Ferocity. Also, now there is also Well of Darkness increasing our damage in Shroud, in addition to Nightfall and Well of Suffering. > > > > > > Then, there is Signet of Vampirism that deals some damage every second while in Shroud, thanks to Signets of Suffering. > > > > > > It could really be the best choice DPS wise, even sustained. It will probably be better in Fractal where damage bursts are more effective. > > > > > > Edit: after more testing I think the DPS is very similar anyway. > > > > While a huge portion of our dps does come from Reaper's Shroud, you would be making an already weak out of shroud rotation MUCH weaker by that 250 reduction in power, to the point that it will drag the rest of the dps very heavily. The damage from Signet of Vampirism is not enough to make up for GS doing less damage. For the most ideal dps rotation, you do not want to stay in shroud for much longer than your Soul Barbs is active, ergo keeping the time you have without Soul Barbs active for as little as possible. > > > > It's more worth taking SoS if you are running alone with no one to give you much might I think. In Fractals, Awaken the Pain will still win out if you have a HB. > > If you enjoy Signet play fair play to you and it works in open world and lower tier fractals. But for high end PvE, with an organized group, Awaken the Pain will win out every time. I am glad, however, that I am able to take Signet of Vampirism instead of Blood Fiend even without SoS because having minions is annoying as they can keep you in combat and the active on the signet I find better than the minion and it is technically a party/squad wide damage increase with the 25 stacks of life siphon on it...not that that will be use purposefully in a dps rotation as the cast time is too long but at least if you do have to heal you can squeeze some more damage out. > > I can say what I said because I’ve tested the traits (really not enough yet, and initially the RNG favoured SoS a lot). I have not tried it staying in Shroud for a long time, but executing a proper rotation to try maximising the DPS. Most of the damage is made in Shroud even if you play properly with Soul Barbs, and that makes the additional power while in Shroud more relevant (I don’t know how much). > > DPS wise, the difference between the two choices will probably be small, nothing “heavy” in favour of Awaken of the Pain [now I think “it” (Awaken the Pain) could win by about 2%, but I’m getting inconsistent results, I hate how much RNG there is in Reaper rotation]. > > There is one thing I can add in favour of Awaken the Pain, if someone can’t execute all the Shroud part of the rotation cause it took too much damage, then the power loss will really drag down the DPS a lot (but there is a great solution among the Signets of Suffering builds: slotting Signet of Undeath). > > Signet of Undeath alongside Signet of Spite and Well of Suffering or Well of Darkness (with Signets of Suffering), is still a viable and powerful choice for anyone that feel the necessity to have more Life Force generation (the DPS loss seems similar to before the balance patch, it could be only 4-5% less than the the build that provide the best potential DPS). It provides much more reliable DPS and better survivability for a minor DPS loss. Also less need to lose DPS by avoiding damage when the support is bad (in cases like those, that become the build with the highest DPS). > > Usually, you know you need more Life Force generation when you can’t execute all your rotation without any pause. It is very common when playing some Raids (even in groups with high LI requirements) or some high level Fractals with “pugs”, for the vast majority of power Reapers. > > It is still important to learn to avoid what you can avoid without losing DPS, and to dodge certain attacks that “you can’t just tank”. > > Obviously I’m talking about something that could be optimal for most Reapers to complete the most difficult instanced PvE group contents that the game provides. Which elite skill are you using? I am thinking about trying this for open and maybe fractals just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Josiah.2967" said: > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > > > > > > > ANet logic: > > > > > > > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > > > > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. > > > > > > > > Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. > > > > Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. > > > > > > > > Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. > > > > > > > > For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe. ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that is has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll copy my precedent comment: > > > > _It seems to be higher from the first testings, but it could be because of RNG. > > > > > > > > It provides 270 extra Power while in Shroud, with Signet of Spite (20 more than Awaken the Pain). Outside of Shroud we would have 250 less power at 25 Might stacks, but most of our damage comes from Shroud, thanks to the additional Ferocity. Also, now there is also Well of Darkness increasing our damage in Shroud, in addition to Nightfall and Well of Suffering. > > > > > > > > Then, there is Signet of Vampirism that deals some damage every second while in Shroud, thanks to Signets of Suffering. > > > > > > > > It could really be the best choice DPS wise, even sustained. It will probably be better in Fractal where damage bursts are more effective. > > > > > > > > Edit: after more testing I think the DPS is very similar anyway. > > > > > > While a huge portion of our dps does come from Reaper's Shroud, you would be making an already weak out of shroud rotation MUCH weaker by that 250 reduction in power, to the point that it will drag the rest of the dps very heavily. The damage from Signet of Vampirism is not enough to make up for GS doing less damage. For the most ideal dps rotation, you do not want to stay in shroud for much longer than your Soul Barbs is active, ergo keeping the time you have without Soul Barbs active for as little as possible. > > > > > > It's more worth taking SoS if you are running alone with no one to give you much might I think. In Fractals, Awaken the Pain will still win out if you have a HB. > > > If you enjoy Signet play fair play to you and it works in open world and lower tier fractals. But for high end PvE, with an organized group, Awaken the Pain will win out every time. I am glad, however, that I am able to take Signet of Vampirism instead of Blood Fiend even without SoS because having minions is annoying as they can keep you in combat and the active on the signet I find better than the minion and it is technically a party/squad wide damage increase with the 25 stacks of life siphon on it...not that that will be use purposefully in a dps rotation as the cast time is too long but at least if you do have to heal you can squeeze some more damage out. > > > > I can say what I said because I’ve tested the traits (really not enough yet, and initially the RNG favoured SoS a lot). I have not tried it staying in Shroud for a long time, but executing a proper rotation to try maximising the DPS. Most of the damage is made in Shroud even if you play properly with Soul Barbs, and that makes the additional power while in Shroud more relevant (I don’t know how much). > > > > DPS wise, the difference between the two choices will probably be small, nothing “heavy” in favour of Awaken of the Pain [now I think “it” (Awaken the Pain) could win by about 2%, but I’m getting inconsistent results, I hate how much RNG there is in Reaper rotation]. > > > > There is one thing I can add in favour of Awaken the Pain, if someone can’t execute all the Shroud part of the rotation cause it took too much damage, then the power loss will really drag down the DPS a lot (but there is a great solution among the Signets of Suffering builds: slotting Signet of Undeath). > > > > Signet of Undeath alongside Signet of Spite and Well of Suffering or Well of Darkness (with Signets of Suffering), is still a viable and powerful choice for anyone that feel the necessity to have more Life Force generation (the DPS loss seems similar to before the balance patch, it could be only 4-5% less than the the build that provide the best potential DPS). It provides much more reliable DPS and better survivability for a minor DPS loss. Also less need to lose DPS by avoiding damage when the support is bad (in cases like those, that become the build with the highest DPS). > > > > Usually, you know you need more Life Force generation when you can’t execute all your rotation without any pause. It is very common when playing some Raids (even in groups with high LI requirements) or some high level Fractals with “pugs”, for the vast majority of power Reapers. > > > > It is still important to learn to avoid what you can avoid without losing DPS, and to dodge certain attacks that “you can’t just tank”. > > > > Obviously I’m talking about something that could be optimal for most Reapers to complete the most difficult instanced PvE group contents that the game provides. > > Which elite skill are you using? I am thinking about trying this for open and maybe fractals just for fun. Generally I use what’s probably optimal for what I have to do. Also, this is not **the** build I’m using, I change things in the build based on the encounter and the group I’m playing with. I share true “min maxing”, not fantasies like “in instanced PvE the personal heal is not needed because the damage can be avoided, and the only important thing is maximising the potential DPS”. Truth is that every day people trying to do that have very bad performances. Not all damage can be avoided, it is not always worth to avoid it. Most people play in “bad groups” with people that can’t properly execute a rotation. Only a small minority of players is willing to put the effort needed to start playing very well. For most Reapers, the Life Force generated by their weapons is often not even nearly enough to execute the rotation in the groups they play with. Many of these problems can be solved with minimal loss of potential DPS. About the Elite skill: mostly Chilled to the Bone for group of mobs (when I think it could be worth), Lichform for burst damage against bosses, Flesh Golem for CC and sustained damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > ANet logic: > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > "Lets nerf them!" > The worst part is, Signets of Suffering was already very much Grandmaster-worthy as a trait. But the one signet that people most often run in PvP and WvW (Plague) actually gets worse with traiting. Honestly, if they had just changed Plague Signet's traited version from "transfer a 2nd condition to yourself" to "gain 1 second of Resistance each time you transfer a condi to yourself" (or something similar), I wonder if signets and the trait might have seen more play? Also, the stupid health cost on Undeath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I'm on SC's discord server and people are obviously testing out the new changes. As far as power Reaper goes, they managed to get as high as 33.4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > I'm on SC's discord server and people are obviously testing out the new changes. As far as power Reaper goes, they managed to get as high as 33.4k. Interesting. I do wonder what caused the bump upwards for pve Reapers. If theres a new skill/trait combination that now is better. Likewise I am wondering for pve dps Scourges, though they still seeem locked into having epidemic and blood is power. But with selfShade back, you have more reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > Mathematically and realistically is very difficult for this to happen and unlikely this will be the case in general. Sure the 270 > 250 inside shroud but outside 250 >> 0. The 2000 damage you lose from signet inside shroud wont really make up for it. > It might be wiser to say that out of shroud the numbers under the same conditions are: 430 (for _awaken the pain_) against 180 (for SoS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > I'm on SC's discord server and people are obviously testing out the new changes. As far as power Reaper goes, they managed to get as high as 33.4k. > > Interesting. I do wonder what caused the bump upwards for pve Reapers. If theres a new skill/trait combination that now is better. > Likewise I am wondering for pve dps Scourges, though they still seeem locked into having epidemic and blood is power. But with selfShade back, you have more reach. Well of Darkness was a nice surprise, I didn't expect it to have DPS that far outstrips Well of Corruption and only 20% behind Well of Suffering, plus it's such a nice help with maintaining Chill uptime as well as decent CC as it applies the "hardest" soft CCs. And they are both on the same cooldown, which means they are ready together for when you need to burst with Soul Spiral. So I think that's what's doing it. Those people practicing are seeing if they can squeeze it to 34k, though getting to 33.4k was quite a hard squeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > I'm on SC's discord server and people are obviously testing out the new changes. As far as power Reaper goes, they managed to get as high as 33.4k. > > > > Interesting. I do wonder what caused the bump upwards for pve Reapers. If theres a new skill/trait combination that now is better. > > Likewise I am wondering for pve dps Scourges, though they still seeem locked into having epidemic and blood is power. But with selfShade back, you have more reach. > > Well of Darkness was a nice surprise, I didn't expect it to have DPS that far outstrips Well of Corruption and only 20% behind Well of Suffering, plus it's such a nice help with maintaining Chill uptime as well as decent CC as it applies the "hardest" soft CCs. And they are both on the same cooldown, which means they are ready together for when you need to burst with Soul Spiral. So I think that's what's doing it. Those people practicing are seeing if they can squeeze it to 34k, though getting to 33.4k was quite a hard squeeze. Outright id think that Shadowfiend is replaced by Well of Darkness. Since you dont want to give up Well of Suffering, nor Signet of Spite. Now the traits is probably the interesting thing to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > I'm on SC's discord server and people are obviously testing out the new changes. As far as power Reaper goes, they managed to get as high as 33.4k. > > > > > > Interesting. I do wonder what caused the bump upwards for pve Reapers. If theres a new skill/trait combination that now is better. > > > Likewise I am wondering for pve dps Scourges, though they still seeem locked into having epidemic and blood is power. But with selfShade back, you have more reach. > > > > Well of Darkness was a nice surprise, I didn't expect it to have DPS that far outstrips Well of Corruption and only 20% behind Well of Suffering, plus it's such a nice help with maintaining Chill uptime as well as decent CC as it applies the "hardest" soft CCs. And they are both on the same cooldown, which means they are ready together for when you need to burst with Soul Spiral. So I think that's what's doing it. Those people practicing are seeing if they can squeeze it to 34k, though getting to 33.4k was quite a hard squeeze. > > Outright id think that Shadowfiend is replaced by Well of Darkness. Since you dont want to give up Well of Suffering, nor Signet of Spite. Now the traits is probably the interesting thing to see. Same as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > @"Josiah.2967" said: > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > Yeah, signets really got nerfed pretty bad this patch. Locust got a buff, but the rest... > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet logic: > > > > > > > > > > > > "No-one's using Signets or Signets of Suffering because they're not strong enough" > > > > > > > > > > > > "Lets nerf them!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Signets of Suffering provided great survivability before the last balance patch, at the cost of a small portion of DPS. > > > > > > > > > > Now the survivability got lowered, but Signets of Suffering is almost on par with Awaken the Pain, DPS wise. It is difficult to say what is doing slightly more DPS than the other. > > > > > Anyway I’m sure it will generally be the best option for most things in instanced PvE content, for Power Reaper. > > > > > > > > > > Until yesterday your logic was that everything that is not the best for potential DPS is useless for PvE instanced content (obviously you were totally wrong, but still it was your logic). You’ve got that extra DPS on Signets of Suffering builds, maybe you have still to realise it. > > > > > > > > > > For competitive modes, Signets of Suffering was probably better before the update. So, your comment at least for competitive modes makes sense, maybe. ArenaNet said that the trait was not powerful enough to warrant taking over the other grandmaster traits, and it is true that is has been nerfed, but also that it has to compete with weaker traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll copy my precedent comment: > > > > > _It seems to be higher from the first testings, but it could be because of RNG. > > > > > > > > > > It provides 270 extra Power while in Shroud, with Signet of Spite (20 more than Awaken the Pain). Outside of Shroud we would have 250 less power at 25 Might stacks, but most of our damage comes from Shroud, thanks to the additional Ferocity. Also, now there is also Well of Darkness increasing our damage in Shroud, in addition to Nightfall and Well of Suffering. > > > > > > > > > > Then, there is Signet of Vampirism that deals some damage every second while in Shroud, thanks to Signets of Suffering. > > > > > > > > > > It could really be the best choice DPS wise, even sustained. It will probably be better in Fractal where damage bursts are more effective. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: after more testing I think the DPS is very similar anyway. > > > > > > > > While a huge portion of our dps does come from Reaper's Shroud, you would be making an already weak out of shroud rotation MUCH weaker by that 250 reduction in power, to the point that it will drag the rest of the dps very heavily. The damage from Signet of Vampirism is not enough to make up for GS doing less damage. For the most ideal dps rotation, you do not want to stay in shroud for much longer than your Soul Barbs is active, ergo keeping the time you have without Soul Barbs active for as little as possible. > > > > > > > > It's more worth taking SoS if you are running alone with no one to give you much might I think. In Fractals, Awaken the Pain will still win out if you have a HB. > > > > If you enjoy Signet play fair play to you and it works in open world and lower tier fractals. But for high end PvE, with an organized group, Awaken the Pain will win out every time. I am glad, however, that I am able to take Signet of Vampirism instead of Blood Fiend even without SoS because having minions is annoying as they can keep you in combat and the active on the signet I find better than the minion and it is technically a party/squad wide damage increase with the 25 stacks of life siphon on it...not that that will be use purposefully in a dps rotation as the cast time is too long but at least if you do have to heal you can squeeze some more damage out. > > > > > > I can say what I said because I’ve tested the traits (really not enough yet, and initially the RNG favoured SoS a lot). I have not tried it staying in Shroud for a long time, but executing a proper rotation to try maximising the DPS. Most of the damage is made in Shroud even if you play properly with Soul Barbs, and that makes the additional power while in Shroud more relevant (I don’t know how much). > > > > > > DPS wise, the difference between the two choices will probably be small, nothing “heavy” in favour of Awaken of the Pain [now I think “it” (Awaken the Pain) could win by about 2%, but I’m getting inconsistent results, I hate how much RNG there is in Reaper rotation]. > > > > > > There is one thing I can add in favour of Awaken the Pain, if someone can’t execute all the Shroud part of the rotation cause it took too much damage, then the power loss will really drag down the DPS a lot (but there is a great solution among the Signets of Suffering builds: slotting Signet of Undeath). > > > > > > Signet of Undeath alongside Signet of Spite and Well of Suffering or Well of Darkness (with Signets of Suffering), is still a viable and powerful choice for anyone that feel the necessity to have more Life Force generation (the DPS loss seems similar to before the balance patch, it could be only 4-5% less than the the build that provide the best potential DPS). It provides much more reliable DPS and better survivability for a minor DPS loss. Also less need to lose DPS by avoiding damage when the support is bad (in cases like those, that become the build with the highest DPS). > > > > > > Usually, you know you need more Life Force generation when you can’t execute all your rotation without any pause. It is very common when playing some Raids (even in groups with high LI requirements) or some high level Fractals with “pugs”, for the vast majority of power Reapers. > > > > > > It is still important to learn to avoid what you can avoid without losing DPS, and to dodge certain attacks that “you can’t just tank”. > > > > > > Obviously I’m talking about something that could be optimal for most Reapers to complete the most difficult instanced PvE group contents that the game provides. > > > > Which elite skill are you using? I am thinking about trying this for open and maybe fractals just for fun. > > Generally I use what’s probably optimal for what I have to do. Also, this is not **the** build I’m using, I change things in the build based on the encounter and the group I’m playing with. > > I share true “min maxing”, not fantasies like “in instanced PvE the personal heal is not needed because the damage can be avoided, and the only important thing is maximising the potential DPS”. Truth is that every day people trying to do that have very bad performances. > > Not all damage can be avoided, it is not always worth to avoid it. Most people play in “bad groups” with people that can’t properly execute a rotation. Only a small minority of players is willing to put the effort needed to start playing very well. > > For most Reapers, the Life Force generated by their weapons is often not even nearly enough to execute the rotation in the groups they play with. > > Many of these problems can be solved with minimal loss of potential DPS. > > About the Elite skill: mostly Chilled to the Bone for group of mobs (when I think it could be worth), Lichform for burst damage against bosses, Flesh Golem for CC and sustained damage. Thanks for the information. I was trying to do a minionless build. More for fun/something different to do for fractals. Lichform seemed like the best alternative to Flesh Golem; however, I still find myself missing CC and it seemed to do more overall damage with even less effort. We are getting so close to a viable minion less end-game build. At least I got something a little different to play with in this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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