Weaver Changes and Overall PvE Raid Balance

[Alyster.9470]

Honestly I want to say that these balance notes have proved that ANet balances classes based on their benchmark numbers once again.

I believed that condi weaver was perfectly fine with its damage given its 1. Light armor 2. Lowest hp 3. Complex rotation which is harder to execute in raids compared to other specs 4. No group utility no boons 5. very reliant on %100 boon uptime.

 

However, Power Weaver has been a joke since Holo/Power Chrono does more damage easily and Power Soulbeast is BEYOND BROKEN which can also bring stance share/spirit.

 

I also play Pslb in fractals and nothing comes close in terms of burst, I am talking about +120k dps numbers. https://dps.report/VHXL-20200319-200020_mama (check phase 1 for reference). Yet the only change they do is -50 power and -50 condition damage. Wow, this was actually funny. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/380903510738468865/728314351382954215/unknown.png?width=381&height=677

 

Condition Weaver gave me the most joy than any other class, I do raids every week and I barely see any weavers its just bunch of holo, Dh, Slb and a lot of Firebrands for Months. Seeing this change makes me think ANet doesnt want us to play anything interesting or hard but just stack same classes and press axe5 to win.

 

I recommend ANet to play their own game before they balance classes. I doubt anyone in Arenanet has played Condi Weaver in a raid and went "oh my god this is broken, I must nerf!".

 

There are more things to talk about but I dont want to write an essay here and ANet wont probably bother reading this and care about it.

 

 

[damla NR.1680]

I really wanna understand the real reason of condi weaver nerf but well, i guess you are right. It is only because of the SC benchmarks. It is really frustrating to see that a class who can barely played by 1% of the raid community gets nerf. Correct me if i am wrong but really i never see another condi weaver beside me and alsyter. But well, i go to my corner and start crying cause they will never correct this mistake. Not even they realise...

[Miezekilla.1486]

I generally agree with you, but I am not sure if condi weaver will do less damage then before - the new 10% modifier on the fire GM might be nice - allthough they could have left the other traits alone, condi weaver can only shine on very few bosses

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> I also play Pslb in fractals and nothing comes close in terms of burst, I am talking about +120k dps numbers. https://dps.report/VHXL-20200319-200020_mama (check phase 1 for reference). Yet the only change they do is -50 power and -50 condition damage. Wow, this was actually funny. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/380903510738468865/728314351382954215/unknown.png?width=381&height=677

 

Weaver can get 150k+ aswell and outbursts slb with stanceshare.

 

[Shiyo.3578]

This change was completely uncalled for. I never see anyone on weaver at all, even though the fractal site says its "mandatory in fractals", you don't see it there either.

 

Why does Anet gut Elementalist all the time? This isn't fair treatment of the class at all. First staff, now condi weaver? For what reason? How does this make the game better? How does this make the game more fun for anyone?

 

I could understand if everyone was playing condi weaver and they were DESTROYING the raiding and fractal scene, but this class is nearly non-existent in any form of PvE I've ever participated in. Stop picking favorites and nerfing classes you don't "like" and actually "balance" things.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

Condi weaver already takes persisting flames meaning after patch it will also get the 10% power dmg boost (thru flame uprising & flamewall). Keeping in mind condi weaver has a power dmg component vs a purer condi spec, the duration nerfs were probably mainly made to completely offset this buff. How much of nerf it actually is with all things considered remains to be seen.

 

On another topic: what is balance? Over in fractals, you have slb stanceshare, guard signetshare (vs every other classes’ signet trait *and for some special reason is allowed to stack*) and some other wacky broken stuff trivialising anet’s ‘hard 5man content’ but they obviously think it’s fine... then you have weaver who’s just there to abuse things from other classes (because it has the most dmg bonuses or something), otherwise it wouldn’t really be there at all.

 

And then necro pve balance :trollface:

[Vindicate.6951]

Definetly agree that they should make the class more appealing than actually hitting it with the bat every couple of months. As mentioned above already the elementalist has among the least survivability, lowest hp, light armor class and even in terms of damage we cant outshine with complex rotations.

 

Maybe, just maybe the change to pyromancers puissance might net a slight dps buff to power weavers, but since we dont know the actual skill damage of the skill, its only a guess. On the other hand I dont really see the logic in having a 1-10 might stack drop to share among the party/raid. I mean there are druids and other classes who have a much easier time stacking up might up to 25, giving the weaver a supportive component like this feels rather misplaced in my opinion, at least in raids, in fractals it might prove useful, who knows.

I cant speak much for the condi version since Ive been on power for like ever, but they are even rarer to find than a power build and reading nerfs on durations doesnt change the problem to the better. :disappointed:

 

I still think Anet solves this issue the wrong way. Alone the fact that most new players (as far as I am aware) start the game as a guardian or ranger mostly since they are easier to get used to, perform as well or even better as eles, have a wider selection of roles and are much tougher in terms of armor/hp makes me questioning their changes every time.

 

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Vindicate.6951" said:

> Definetly agree that they should make the class more appealing than actually hitting it with the bat every couple of months. As mentioned above already the elementalist has among the least survivability, lowest hp, light armor class and even in terms of damage we cant outshine with complex rotations.

>

> Maybe, just maybe the change to pyromancers puissance might net a slight dps buff to power weavers, but since we dont know the actual skill damage of the skill, its only a guess. On the other hand I dont really see the logic in having a 1-10 might stack drop to share among the party/raid. I mean there are druids and other classes who have a much easier time stacking up might up to 25

 

You might have missed the part where power weaver gets another 10% mod. This would actually give players a reason to even touch that in raids. Should end in 38-40k golem dps but so should be on par with holo and dh on actual encounters since weaver is also really bursty.

Pyromancers puissance on the other hand is something strange if flame expulsion is not affecting the ele itself but i see no reason except anet that it wouldnt.

[Vindicate.6951]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> You might have missed the part where power weaver gets another 10% mod. This would actually give players a reason to even touch that in raids. Should end in 38-40k golem dps but so should be on par with holo and dh on actual encounters since weaver is also really bursty.

> Pyromancers puissance on the other hand is something strange if flame expulsion is not affecting the ele itself but i see no reason except anet that it wouldnt.

 

Well yeah, but the 10% mod applies in a perfect scenario, in terms of PvE content, specifically raids, how often do you hit 10 enemies with one fire field? For add phases it works great, but for a single target boss I doubt we will hit many stacks.

But I guess its a damage buff anyway, fury gets provided by many classes and in the air trait, so its nothing that gets missed, at least for raids its not.

 

Guess it will come down to which GM trait performs better overall at the end, but there is nothing that would change the general skill rotation in any way so its to wait and see :)

 

 

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Vindicate.6951" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > You might have missed the part where power weaver gets another 10% mod. This would actually give players a reason to even touch that in raids. Should end in 38-40k golem dps but so should be on par with holo and dh on actual encounters since weaver is also really bursty.

> > Pyromancers puissance on the other hand is something strange if flame expulsion is not affecting the ele itself but i see no reason except anet that it wouldnt.

>

> Well yeah, but the 10% mod applies in a perfect scenario, in terms of PvE content, specifically raids, how often do you hit 10 enemies with one fire field? For add phases it works great, but for a single target boss I doubt we will hit many stacks.

> But I guess its a damage buff anyway, fury gets provided by many classes and in the air trait, so its nothing that gets missed, at least for raids its not.

>

> Guess it will come down to which GM trait performs better overall at the end, but there is nothing that would change the general skill rotation in any way so its to wait and see :)

>

>

 

It should work like symbolic avenger on guard so each tick of a firefield adds a stack. thats pretty much full stacks after one rotation for the full fight duration even vs single targets.

[Euclid.2517]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

 

>

> You might have missed the part where power weaver gets another 10% mod. This would actually give players a reason to even touch that in raids. Should end in 38-40k golem dps but so should be on par with holo and dh on actual encounters since weaver is also really bursty.

 

Power weaver is not bursty. It is intended to have better sustained dps. Soulbeast/DH/Holo is intended to be bursty.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Euclid.2517" said:

> Power weaver is not bursty. It is intended to have better sustained dps. Soulbeast/DH/Holo is intended to be bursty.

 

You dont play fractals do you? Weaver constantly outbursts slb in there if he knows how to play.

[zaekeon.5128]

I agree, upset about the nerf to complex weak class

[Vindicate.6951]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> It should work like symbolic avenger on guard so each tick of a firefield adds a stack. thats pretty much full stacks after one rotation for the full fight duration even vs single targets.

 

If it really works like this its gonna be a flat 10% increase indeed, a rather big buff to be fair. In that case I get doubts that the other GM trait outshines in any way, but at least weaver would get rewarded with more competitive damage at the cost of really low hp, light armor and whatnot.

 

 

[Euclid.2517]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Euclid.2517" said:

> > Power weaver is not bursty. It is intended to have better sustained dps. Soulbeast/DH/Holo is intended to be bursty.

>

> You dont play fractals do you? Weaver constantly outbursts slb in there if he knows how to play.

 

I play fotm cm everyday and clear raid weekly as weaver main.

 

Sure, in fractal if you pre-cast everything: lightning hammer, meteor shower, lightning storm, glyph of elemental power, arcane power, Conjured greatsword; and get **One wolf pack** stance share, you can outburst soulbeast.

 

You see how **contrived** this is? That's why power weaver only is meta in fractal, and your teammate need to coordinate with you.

 

In raid, you cannot do these things.

 

Also don't know why you are so offensive by coming up and say "you dont play fractal do you".

 

[DutchRiders.2871]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Euclid.2517" said:

> > Power weaver is not bursty. It is intended to have better sustained dps. Soulbeast/DH/Holo is intended to be bursty.

>

> You dont play fractals do you? Weaver constantly outbursts slb in there if he knows how to play.

 

You were talking about how raid weaver is bursty, which is true but its not nearly as bursty as Soulbeast/DH. Which probably is a good thing cause burst windows are longer anyways in raids.

 

The daily 5 minute pre stack ritual, pre summoning LH/FGS, Meteor shower, tempest defense and the stance skip utility thingie is irrelevant here.

[Milosz.5938]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> Honestly I want to say that these balance notes have proved that ANet balances classes based on their benchmark numbers once again.

> I believed that condi weaver was perfectly fine with its damage given its 1. Light armor 2. Lowest hp 3. Complex rotation which is harder to execute in raids compared to other specs 4. No group utility no boons 5. very reliant on %100 boon uptime.

>

> However, Power Weaver has been a joke since Holo/Power Chrono does more damage easily and Power Soulbeast is BEYOND BROKEN which can also bring stance share/spirit.

>

> I also play Pslb in fractals and nothing comes close in terms of burst, I am talking about +120k dps numbers. https://dps.report/VHXL-20200319-200020_mama (check phase 1 for reference). Yet the only change they do is -50 power and -50 condition damage. Wow, this was actually funny. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/380903510738468865/728314351382954215/unknown.png?width=381&height=677

>

> Condition Weaver gave me the most joy than any other class, I do raids every week and I barely see any weavers its just bunch of holo, Dh, Slb and a lot of Firebrands for Months. Seeing this change makes me think ANet doesnt want us to play anything interesting or hard but just stack same classes and press axe5 to win.

>

> I recommend ANet to play their own game before they balance classes. I doubt anyone in Arenanet has played Condi Weaver in a raid and went "oh my god this is broken, I must nerf!".

>

> There are more things to talk about but I dont want to write an essay here and ANet wont probably bother reading this and care about it.

>

>

 

WOW... those words look like taken from my heart. I agree with you. ANET at least should try to play as elementalist from time to time in different game's modes to feel how it's like... and compare that with difficulty level of other professions.

[Mikeskies.1536]

I was sceptical that this was a nerf, but it is at least a 2k DPS loss. They need to revert the change to Primordial Stance!

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"Mikeskies.1536" said:

> I was sceptical that this was a nerf, but it is at least a 2k DPS loss. They need to revert the change to Primordial Stance!

 

Nerf of primordial stance, Searing Slash, ... next time it will be pyro-vortex and weaver's prowess in pve.

Condi tempest will become a better condi DPS than the "dps" spec weaver :p

Well played Anet :p