Crab Fear.1624 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 We have a game-able rating system. A system that encourages bots, probably ones that farm and sell gold online. A system that rewards losing. Afks are ignored. A rating system designed for chess in a game mode designed for 5 v 5. Devs that haven't really made any drastic changes since removing teams from ranked. Cries for solo q ignore, cries for team q ignored. Cries for balance, actual logical balance, ignored. The forums are essentially useless, as it seems only discord, streamers, and reddit are given any thought. Changes come from left field, and limited by pve \(need more splits) No real defined roles with classes offically tied to those roles, as laid out by devs. It feels like the devs want the illusion that we can do what we want, then they control it with "balance". Just say (class x,y,z)=support or team fight, (class a,b,c = duelist, side noder), (class 1,2,3 = roamer, +1, decap) and make it hard limit. Engineer with their holosmith specialization can be any of these, how is that right? What about warrior? What are they outside of played by the truly dedicated?...or perhaps the warrior should be how you do balance? --- support or teamfight * necro * guard * rev * elementalist ---- duelist, side noder * engineer * mesmer * warrior * ranger --- roamer * thief as thief can not leave roamer with cries, it would be best to keep others out of that group I want pvp to be better in this game. Well, I have trolled the forums long enough. Thanks for the fun guys. Ill play the game when I can, but I'm done here. I do giveaways weekly in BGW, you can join if you want and get some gem store stuff. Adios, haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Finally you understand No hope in here nor in Gw2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Some guy in a suit who not only has never played a video game but actively hates them (because his son likes playing them more than talking about investing) looked at a spreadsheet and said, "What's pee vee pee?" Some timid developer explained it to him, though the man in the suit wasn't listening because on the spreadsheet it showed that pee vee pee didn't generate any income and that vein was throbbing in his forehead. "Kill it," the man in the suit said. "It brings in no revenue. Kill it dead. Kill it, and then kill it again." And then the man in the suit added, "Make more mount skins, and make them more randomer as hell to get." He put the spreadsheet down and walked out. All games die once the men in suits take over. MMOs are complex ecosystems and many people struggle to understand how one thing affects another. Men in suits sure as hell don't understand it. I think WvW is a good example of this lack of understanding of how MMOs work. World PvP only works if it is objectively not to objective. Once you instance it and put objectives into it ... it becomes a rote, zerg-fest. Even though PvP and even PvE'ers don't generate as much revenue, it still affects the entire ecosystem. They should have tried hard to convert PvP'ers to gem buyers, rather than just neglecting PvP completely because it wasn't the cash cow they wanted. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I'd **like** to give anet my money but there's nothing that's worth it. Mounts have nothing to do with spvp, neither do a lot of other cosmetics (gliders, etc). Maybe finishers? Idk. They don't make anything a pvper can actually use and see, make lazy changes every so often, and then wonder why the game mode isn't making any money. lmao. I'd be curious to see anet's books, cuz even the pve folks I know aren't really interested in most of what anet puts out on the gem store. How in the heck are they staying afloat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Support(aka "Healer") Zero damage, cannot kill anyone and only survive. High team healing, high self healing but low survivability. * Firebrand * Tempest * Scourge * Druid * Scrapper * Ventari base Revenant ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Team fighter(aka "DPS") Squishy, no self healing, cannot 1vX, cannot 1v1 any duelist, highest dps and burst * Chronomancer * Berserker * Deadeye ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Siege(aka "Caster") Long range damage, plenty of CC, plenty of aoe CC, medium self healing and ok survivability, cannot 1v1 anything * Base Elementalist(Staff) * Base Necro * Base Mesmer(Staff & Scepter) * Base Engineer * Renegade ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Duelist/1v1er(Aka "Bruiser") ~33% Less DPS and burst than team fighter, but medium self healing. Wins 1v1 against everything except another duelist. * Staff/Staff Daredevil * Spellbreaker * Base ranger * DPS Meditations Base Guardian(Great Sword&Sword) * Sword Weaver ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Bunker(aka "Tank") Zero damage, high damage reduction but low sustain, high CC but melee range. * Base Warrior * Bunker Base Guardian(Mace&Hammer) * Scrapper * Malyx Herald ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Roamer(aka "Scout") High mobility, high disengage, cannot 1v1, low sustain, very low survivability, low DPS but medium burst. * Holosmith * Mirage * Dragon Hunter * Daredevil(Dagger+ SB or Sword + SB) * Soulbeast * Scepter Weaver Every team would want a roamer, a support, and at least 1 team fighter. Duelist and bunker are interchangable, siege and team fighter are interchangable. Specs/classes would be redesigned to fit the above templates. If you cannot even give every class and spec a defined role, you cannot balance the game. You end up with stuff like holosmith that do literally everything S tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > I'd **like** to give anet my money but there's nothing that's worth it. Mounts have nothing to do with spvp, neither do a lot of other cosmetics (gliders, etc). Maybe finishers? Idk. They don't make anything a pvper can actually use and see, make lazy changes every so often, and then wonder why the game mode isn't making any money. lmao. What would you put in gemstore that pvpers would buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 They should've sold expansions with additional game modes. For example, HoT should have been: * New zones * New raid wings(2-3) * New fractals(2-3) * New PvP Mode(Stronghold) * New WvW Map(Desert) * Elite specs Every expac should copy this format, new zones, new raid tier, new pvp mode, new wvw map, new specs. They could've also sold ~$10-15 bite sized expacs inbetween big ones that add: * New raid wing * New zone * New fractal * Big balance patch(Free without purchase of course, but it'd come with bite size expacs releases) I'm a PvPer and I also buy cute cosmetics and outfits all the time, the issue is we don't get enough cute and too much weird stuff, chairs, and mount skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > I'd **like** to give anet my money but there's nothing that's worth it. Mounts have nothing to do with spvp, neither do a lot of other cosmetics (gliders, etc). Maybe finishers? Idk. They don't make anything a pvper can actually use and see, make lazy changes every so often, and then wonder why the game mode isn't making any money. lmao. > > What would you put in gemstore that pvpers would buy? > An item that forces a title to appear "whatever you want to name it" under any player that you click and use it on. And it doesn't go away for a full week. So I could purchase this item for 7000 gems. And make the title say "I'm a butt" and then I can click some toxic kid and make him have to wear that title for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I agree qith mostly everything but forums statement Get a group of ppl and coordinate nerf threads on forums, i think you can get berserk nerfed Like 20 ppl, every day one of those ppl make a nerf thread, the othet 19 spam comments on that thread, next day one of those 19 makes a similar thread the other 19 spam comments Pretty sure that thing gets nerfed within 3 weeks, doesn't matter how bad it is, that was the case with FA weaver pre big patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Khalisto.5780" said: > I agree qith mostly everything but forums statement > > Get a group of ppl and coordinate nerf threads on forums, i think you can get berserk nerfed > > Like 20 ppl, every day one of those ppl make a nerf thread, the othet 19 spam comments on that thread, next day one of those 19 makes a similar thread the other 19 spam comments > > Pretty sure that thing gets nerfed within 3 weeks, doesn't matter how bad it is, that was the case with FA weaver pre big patch Holosmith and Condi thief both received zero meaningful nerfs so I disagree entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Khalisto.5780" said: > > I agree qith mostly everything but forums statement > > > > Get a group of ppl and coordinate nerf threads on forums, i think you can get berserk nerfed > > > > Like 20 ppl, every day one of those ppl make a nerf thread, the othet 19 spam comments on that thread, next day one of those 19 makes a similar thread the other 19 spam comments > > > > Pretty sure that thing gets nerfed within 3 weeks, doesn't matter how bad it is, that was the case with FA weaver pre big patch > > Holosmith and Condi thief both received zero meaningful nerfs so I disagree entirely. You need LR weaver level of hate, which both you mentioned didnt reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > I'd **like** to give anet my money but there's nothing that's worth it. Mounts have nothing to do with spvp, neither do a lot of other cosmetics (gliders, etc). Maybe finishers? Idk. They don't make anything a pvper can actually use and see, make lazy changes every so often, and then wonder why the game mode isn't making any money. lmao. > > What would you put in gemstore that pvpers would buy? > It's not that you need PvPers to buy stuff. It's that a healthy PvP scene, with regular updates, increases the overall health of the game, its marketability and your entire population of players ... many of which will buy plenty of things on the gem store. That's where the ecosystem comes in. You can't neglect an entire wing of the game just because it doesn't have as many DIRECT cash shop purchases. These things are all connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I participate in PvE and PvP. if there is no fun PvP, I simply do not play, however, if PvP is fun, I do PvE and thus end up buying stuff from the gem store. To me, a PvE only MMO is incredibly boring in this day and age since leveling and 99% of PvE in games is too easy(yes hard raids exist). If this was everquest/ffxi days I could play a PvE only MMO, but not anymore. Neglecting your PvP also kills your PvE, imo. Basically, people get bored of PvE and need WvW/PvP "side modes" to occupy time and still keep playing, at least my friends and I feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > We have a game-able rating system. we have very good mmr rating system > A system that encourages bots, probably ones that farm and sell gold online. So if you sure that this is not anet bots, and this is side people bots why you worry? sell gold is not permitted by rules. > A system that rewards losing. I like reward system. > Afks are ignored. on afk you have more % to lese and get less count pips. So afk is nor profitable. > A rating system designed for chess in a game mode designed for 5 v 5. this is ok ? As for me yes. > Devs that haven't really made any drastic changes since removing teams from ranked. devs make some changes. > Cries for solo q ignore, cries for team q ignored. mmo, solo shoudl lose, due win > Cries for balance, actual logical balance, ignored. no one worry balance. And this is ok. > The forums are essentially useless, as it seems only discord, streamers, and reddit are given any thought. it depend only from u > No real defined roles with classes offically tied to those roles, as laid out by devs. u can choose role youself. Want 5 people wiht specific role - welcome to tournaments. > It feels like the devs want the illusion that we can do what we want, then they control it with "balance". thay control balance. So if necro 1,5x stronger than some specific class, and after rebalance necro 1.6x stronger this is balance too. > Just say (class x,y,z)=support or team fight, (class a,b,c = duelist, side noder), (class 1,2,3 = roamer, +1, decap) and make it hard limit. ->> tournaments keep answers for u > What about warrior? What are they outside of played by the truly dedicated?...or perhaps the warrior should be how you do balance? warrior ok. > as thief can not leave roamer with cries, it would be best to keep others out of that group find specific thief youself tournament team. Don't try ask from random player you vision of gameplay. > I want pvp to be better in this game. we already have it. tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearless.3569 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > We have a game-able rating system. > we have very good mmr rating system > > > A system that encourages bots, probably ones that farm and sell gold online. > So if you sure that this is not anet bots, and this is side people bots why you worry? sell gold is not permitted by rules. > > > A system that rewards losing. > I like reward system. > > > Afks are ignored. > on afk you have more % to lese and get less count pips. So afk is nor profitable. > > > A rating system designed for chess in a game mode designed for 5 v 5. > this is ok ? As for me yes. > > > Devs that haven't really made any drastic changes since removing teams from ranked. > devs make some changes. > > > Cries for solo q ignore, cries for team q ignored. > mmo, solo shoudl lose, due win > > > Cries for balance, actual logical balance, ignored. > no one worry balance. And this is ok. > > > The forums are essentially useless, as it seems only discord, streamers, and reddit are given any thought. > it depend only from u > > > No real defined roles with classes offically tied to those roles, as laid out by devs. > u can choose role youself. Want 5 people wiht specific role - welcome to tournaments. > > > It feels like the devs want the illusion that we can do what we want, then they control it with "balance". > thay control balance. So if necro 1,5x stronger than some specific class, and after rebalance necro 1.6x stronger this is balance too. > > > Just say (class x,y,z)=support or team fight, (class a,b,c = duelist, side noder), (class 1,2,3 = roamer, +1, decap) and make it hard limit. > ->> tournaments keep answers for u > > > What about warrior? What are they outside of played by the truly dedicated?...or perhaps the warrior should be how you do balance? > warrior ok. > > > as thief can not leave roamer with cries, it would be best to keep others out of that group > find specific thief youself tournament team. Don't try ask from random player you vision of gameplay. > > > I want pvp to be better in this game. > we already have it. tournament > Can't tell if you are trolling or being serious. But if you are being serious. Sounds like you don't care about what makes PvP fun for PvP competitive players. In that case enjoy your bot infested games. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if you run bots yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp.6912 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 balance can't save pvp but regular balance patch who change the meta can save it so yeah pvp is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 > @"Fearless.3569" said: > Sounds like you don't care about what makes PvP fun for PvP competitive players. Everyone have some individual fun. Someone like roam, someone like complete some achievements, someone just do dayli, someone want win, someone eat picca and play support-heal thief .. > In that case enjoy your bot infested games. I still can't be sure that some bots not from anet. Better have bot in pool, than palt3 player in silver rank, or wait 10 min .. >Actually I wouldn't be surprised if you run bots yourself. true !! Currently play whit uniq chrno build, so this is not big difference :# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellhunter.9675 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Support(aka "Healer") Zero damage, cannot kill anyone and only survive. High team healing, high self healing but low survivability. > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Team fighter(aka "DPS") Squishy, no self healing, cannot 1vX, cannot 1v1 any duelist, highest dps and burst > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Siege(aka "Caster") Long range damage, plenty of CC, plenty of aoe CC, medium self healing and ok survivability, cannot 1v1 anything > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Duelist/1v1er(Aka "Bruiser") ~33% Less DPS and burst than team fighter, but medium self healing. Wins 1v1 against everything except another duelist. > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Bunker(aka "Tank") Zero damage, high damage reduction but low sustain, high CC but melee range. > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > Roamer(aka "Scout") High mobility, high disengage, cannot 1v1, low sustain, very low survivability, low DPS but medium burst. > > Every team would want a roamer, a support, and at least 1 team fighter. Duelist and bunker are interchangable, siege and team fighter are interchangable. > > Specs/classes would be redesigned to fit the above templates. > > If you cannot even give every class and spec a defined role, you cannot balance the game. You end up with stuff like holosmith that do literally everything S tier. You roles desriptions makes literally zero sence. Do you even play sPvP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 > @"jsp.6912" said: > 1 balance can't save pvp don't see any tie between balance and pvp. Probably you not play other mmo games, where some class build can solo kill other 5 non meta player, and this is OK. As for me I suggest boost necro, or some class, to bring mind to some player "don't wait balance., this normal MMO, and balance is obsolete thing is some oldskull mind" > but regular balance patch who change the meta can save it it change classes, but not players .. and this is part of true balance. > so yeah pvp is dead it was dead aprox 5 years ago, and I like it. Very LIKE. Explain ? the point of dead was then was aborted some professional sportsmanship, and aborted some comp games cups. After that point was some spvp balance very strange mind. Re-balance now for me mean only changes, so if some stronger build class after rebalance come more powerful this is ok, because this is only changes. You can not accept my vision, but if you take it it will be more easy for you understand and take what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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