Been away for a few months, looking for some update info

[Shroud.2307]

tldr; I have two computers but only one can support GW2. Said computer is getting a little old and needed to go in for a fix up.

**I have been away for a little over 3 months (since roughly the end of May)** and would like to know what things have changed from my fellow Necromancers.

 

If anyone could quote me on what ever those things are, I know at least a few like something to do with Blood Magic? As well as including your own thoughts on said changes, I'd appreciate it.

 

I know I could just go back and read through previous notes, but I'd honestly prefer to get them from you guys.

 

**EDIT**

Okay I've read through most of the patch notes anyway, but I still want to discuss some of these things for the sake of curiosity and conversation. If you have any thoughts please write away!

[Anchoku.8142]

Honestly, not a lot has changed. Scourge was hard-nerfed in WvW and Vampyric Rituals was replaced by an awesome waste of a slot, though reduced wells cool down became baseline in PvE.

 

There may be some more changes brewing but they are not here yet. The 8th anniversary is approaching so... free dyes and a virtual T-shirt?

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Honestly, not a lot has changed. Scourge was hard-nerfed in WvW and Vampyric Rituals was replaced by an awesome waste of a slot, though reduced wells cool down became baseline in PvE.

>

> There may be some more changes brewing but they are not here yet. The 8th anniversary is approaching so... free dyes and a virtual T-shirt?

 

Lol, alright fair enough. I'll have to review the Blood Magic changes some more. I thought there had been other changes besides that, but I also didn't keep up with notes or forums at all.

 

What happened to Scourge, exactly?

For reference, I typically play Reaper in zergs and am more of a small scale/roaming player. How has Scourge changed for roaming? - not insinuating that it was ever good at said role, but I'd like to know how the changes effected that.

 

**EDIT**

> Manifest Sand Shade: Increased ammo recharge time from 8 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.

 

Oof.

[KrHome.1920]

Reaper deals 33.5k dps now in PvE - thanks to a rework of well of darkness, which additionally chills now and deals almost as much damage as well of suffering. Both have a low 25 second cooldown in PvE.

 

Signets got reworked again and are weaker than before, but the trait has been moved to master tier, so that you can combine the trait with some offensive gm trait, which is not too bad.

 

Dread has switched its place with the signet trait and was also reworked. It is niche but has its uses. If you run a power based staff build, so that you end up with two fears (one in shroud and one on staff5), then this trait is an option for a nice damage boost in the competitive modes.

 

For the competive modes not much has changed (scourge is still a work in progress spec, that gets mechanical tweaks in every patch), but for some unknown reason we have some rant about reaper being OP in the pvp section currently. This may lead to nerfs to please the bronze division.

 

> Oof.

Wait till you see the target cap changes. =)

 

_/edit: added the dread passage_

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Reaper deals 33.5k dps now in PvE - thanks to a rework of well of darkness, which additionally chills now and deals almost as much damage as well of suffering. Both have a low 25 second cooldown in PvE.

>

> Signets got reworked again and are weaker than before, but the trait has been moved to master tier, so that you can combine the trait with some offensive gm trait, which is not too bad.

>

> For the competive modes not much has changed (scourge is still a work in progress spec, that gets mechanical tweaks everywhere), but for some unknown reason we have some rant about reaper being OP in the pvp section currently. This may lead to nerfs to please the bronze division.

 

I'm reading through all the patch notes I missed right now, but would still like to hear peoples thoughts for the sake of discussion.

 

Regarding Reaper in PvP, big yikes. I could see any future changes to appease the woody's translating to WvW, so that's no bueno.

 

Looks like Scourge got repeatedly spanked. Fortunately I never cared much for it, but that doesn't mean I like seeing it treated as it is.

 

I'm curious about these changes to Dread. It looks almost like I could renew my old beloved Dreadmancer, albeit maybe a bit less powerful in some ways and a bit more so in others. Hard to tell without trying.

 

The Well changes and near immediate backpedal is just depressing. Necro is the backbone of large scale WvW and I understand the fear of making them too powerful, but... I really hate ANets habit of giving something only to immediately take it away. Not something I missed since I've been gone.

 

What are your thoughts on Signet of Vampirism? The thought of it just passively leeching sounds really cool to me, but also very irritating because it means it hurts just to be _near_ someone who's using it. How does it perform?

 

Do you see much use of Well of Darkness from small scale/roaming Necros, and do you use it yourself? Would like to hear thoughts on these things from anyone who comments here!

[KrHome.1920]

> What are your thoughts on Signet of Vampirism? The thought of it just passively leeching sounds really cool to me, but also very irritating because it means it hurts just to be near someone who's using it. How does it perform?

It's definitely worse than before, but I can deal with it because signet builds got a damage buff as we can pick a damage gm trait now.

 

The leeching range is very small but at least consistent. In the old version you got a 400 heal for each hit with a 1 second ICD. Now you are constantly leeching every second no mater what your target does. That's pretty strong in PvE (400 hp per second in shroud @ 2 targets) and outperforms the healing of blighter's boon. For the competitive modes it's almost negligible and the cooldown reduction and the active leeching of the sigil is what makes this trait and heaing skill still to the best necro has.

 

I have even found a spite, blood magic, reaper signet dagger roaming build that is incredibly strong esp. solo as unholy martyr can't kill you accidently when you enter shroud (and pull conditions). It benefits a lot from the overal damage reduction, which is an indirect buff to the leechings.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFcsFaYZEMNGHzjViD3kb7G-zRJYixfZkZq2bVZ3JJM+D-e

(no condi build should get you below 80% health with that build - e.g. I use it to troll condi revenants - and also against power it offers a lot of sustain and will win you most attrition fights)

 

For that build the new signet mechanic works pretty great.

 

> Do you see much use of Well of Darkness from small scale/roaming Necros, and do you use it yourself? Would like to hear thoughts on these things from anyone who comments here!

I did use it for one day in large scale before they nerfed the cooldown. Dropped WoS and WoD on downed targets every 25 seconds, entered shroud for the crit and ferocity buff and watched them melt and the players trying to rez too. It was pretty broken.

 

For smallscale wells have always been bad as you can easily move out of them. WoD (new) did not change that.

[Taril.8619]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> What happened to Scourge, exactly?

 

Nerfs to Sand Shades CD's.

 

Shroud skills now once again trigger at both the Sand Shades and Necromancer on use.

 

Shroud Skills in WvW reduced target cap to 2. Yes, this includes Sand Savant only having a target cap of 2 and therefore being strictly inferior to **not picking a trait**

 

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> What are your thoughts on Signet of Vampirism? The thought of it just passively leeching sounds really cool to me, but also very irritating because it means it hurts just to be _near_ someone who's using it. How does it perform?

 

In competitive modes, it's outright inferior due to having such a small radius that you'll get a lot less passive healing from it.

 

In PvE, it has replaced Blood Fiend as the new go-to heal skill as it provides more damage (Due to scaling off of Power), albeit Blood Fiend provides more healing especially without Signets of Suffering trait to allow SoV to do anything in Shroud.

 

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Do you see much use of Well of Darkness from small scale/roaming Necros, and do you use it yourself? Would like to hear thoughts on these things from anyone who comments here!

 

It's possible to run a Well focused build that includes Well of Darkness. But in general, it's prioritized behind Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption.

 

It can still be decent with its damage alongside the pulsing Blind and Chill. It's just that Suffering does more damage (Along with the stacks of Vulnerability) and Corruption corrupts boons which is nice utility.

 

Well of Darkness is worth using if there's no other utilities you feel you need, especially given the burst that's possible by dropping all 3 wells on someone and then going into Shroud to get Death Perception, Reaper's Onslaught and Soul Barbs stat boosts on them.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > What happened to Scourge, exactly?

>

> Nerfs to Sand Shades CD's.

>

> Shroud skills now once again trigger at both the Sand Shades and Necromancer on use.

>

> Shroud Skills in WvW reduced target cap to 2. Yes, this includes Sand Savant only having a target cap of 2 and therefore being strictly inferior to **not picking a trait**

Yet they are still very much meta in zerging, while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

 

[Taril.8619]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > What happened to Scourge, exactly?

> >

> > Nerfs to Sand Shades CD's.

> >

> > Shroud skills now once again trigger at both the Sand Shades and Necromancer on use.

> >

> > Shroud Skills in WvW reduced target cap to 2. Yes, this includes Sand Savant only having a target cap of 2 and therefore being strictly inferior to **not picking a trait**

> Yet they are still very much meta in zerging, while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

>

 

Core Necro isn't Scourge though.

 

So it's no surprise there's beeen a resurgence of Core Necro's after Scourge got destroyed.

[misterman.1530]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > > What happened to Scourge, exactly?

> > >

> > > Nerfs to Sand Shades CD's.

> > >

> > > Shroud skills now once again trigger at both the Sand Shades and Necromancer on use.

> > >

> > > Shroud Skills in WvW reduced target cap to 2. Yes, this includes Sand Savant only having a target cap of 2 and therefore being strictly inferior to **not picking a trait**

> > Yet they are still very much meta in zerging, while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

> >

>

> Core Necro isn't Scourge though.

>

> So it's no surprise there's beeen a resurgence of Core Necro's after Scourge got destroyed.

 

And I have no doubt that Anet is about to nerf hammer core necro now. Probably put all shroud skills on a 1 min cooldown or something "balanced".

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

Even 4 minstrel healbots will melt a core necro 4v1. I have absolutely no idea what you would have to pick to end up in a scenario you describe. This can only be explained with terrible players.

 

In its strongest days (before the signet nerf) core had a life force degeneration of 1% on a traited signet build. It could stall the life force degeneration for the channel time of shroud4 as this generates life force and for the 8 second uptime of spectral armor. Besides that there was no way it could have outsustained the incoming damage with in shroud life force generation.

 

People watch a video of a bunker core necro popping spectral armor (45 second cooldown and an important stunbreak!) before entering shroud and sustain the damage of a bruiser for 8 seconds. Then they come to the conclusion that the class is broken. Laughable!

 

Math:

- spectral armor generates 8% of life force on hit with an ICD of 1 second

- if you have 20k life force then 8% is 1600 life force

- shroud decreases incoming damage by 50%

- this means when used in shroud, spectral armor can nullify 3200 damage per second over a duration of 8 seconds at a 45s cooldown

- if the applied protection is not stripped or corrupted, then it's about 4000 damage per second

- spectral armor does not stop shroud from degenerating, so you have to substract the degeneration per second from the value above

- it is basically necro's form of an "oh sh** button" that every class has - and for necro it's not a simple utility skill, but a combo of a utility skill and shroud, so you have to burn 2 cooldowns for the effect

- this is far from broken and far from "it can tank a 1v4"

- and since core necro is low on damage itsef, it is extremely easy to just stop attacking for 8 seconds and kite

 

 

 

 

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

> Even 4 minstrel healbots will melt a core necro 4v1. I have absolutely no idea what you would have to pick to end up in a scenario you describe. This can only be explained with terrible players.

>

> In its strongest days (before the signet nerf) core had a life force degeneration of 1% on a traited signet build. It could stall the life force degeneration for the channel time of shroud4 as this generates life force and for the 8 second uptime of spectral armor. Besides that there was no way it could have outsustained the incoming damage with in shroud life force generation.

>

> People watch a video of a bunker core necro popping spectral armor (45 second cooldown and an important stunbreak!) before entering shroud and sustain the damage of a bruiser for 8 seconds. Then they come to the conclusion that the class is broken. Laughable!

>

> Math:

> - spectral armor generates 8% of life force on hit with an ICD of 1 second

> - if you have 20k life force then 8% is 1600 life force

> - shroud decreases incoming damage by 50%

> - this means when used in shroud, spectral armor can nullify 3200 damage per second over a duration of 8 seconds at a 45s cooldown

> - if the applied protection is not stripped or corrupted, then it's about 4000 damage per second

> - spectral armor does not stop shroud from degenerating, so you have to substract the degeneration per second from the value above

> - it is basically necro's form of an "oh sh** button" that every class has - and for necro it's not a simple utility skill, but a combo of a utility skill and shroud, so you have to burn 2 cooldowns for the effect

> - this is far from broken and far from "it can tank a 1v4"

> - and since core necro is low on damage itsef, it is extremely easy to just stop attacking for 8 seconds and kite

>

>

>

>

 

Core Necro became obnoxious with subsequent patches in an attempt to give it a more definitive role as the durable Necromancer spec. It was, and to a degree still is, powerful in PvP for this reason. In WvW it is, and has been, outshone by both Reaper and Scourge for a long time. It's durability is only problematic in 1v1's or outnumbered fights against clueless players - but this is something just about any class can achieve with moderate skill. It has virtually no impact on WvW other than forcing players who commit to the Necro to waste an extra 60 seconds trying to kill it when compared to many other classes (oh no!).

 

I had advocated for the nerfing of core Necro some months ago when it became stupid. In many ways it still is, but again, it only really impacts very small scale encounters so I don't see how it's an issue. Unlike many other classes that can access builds capable of at minimum perma-contesting a keep and being virtually unkillable, Necromancer isn't going to get away from a few angry pugs. It sits on the same bench as condi Herald. It has a niche. It is not oppressive, just obnoxious. It still needs tweaks, it doesn't need to be gutted.

 

I don't know why this conversation turned in to a discussion about core anyway, but that's my two cents on the matter.

[Dadnir.5038]

> I had advocated for the nerfing of core Necro some months ago when it became stupid.

 

They did nerf it, the issue is what they nerfed.

 

The issue with the shroud in competitive mode is the size of the LF pool, when they nerfed damage by 30% they basically needed to nerf the health to LF ratio from 69% to 46% and the necromancer would still have gained some survivability (from their regular high health pool) but the shroud would have been kept in check. Instead they nerfed the death shroud decay and some LF source which did little to alleviate the issue.

[Apokriphos.7042]

Back to OPs question, it depends on the game mode. But generally I support all of the on topic responses in this thread.

 

In Fractals/Strikes/Raids Necromancer is still bottom barrel in desired raid DPS slot, but as mentioned previously the PvE well changes increased the golem dps a bit. You can run Reaper in unorganized fractal or strike pugs as before.

 

In sPvp Core, Scourge and Reaper have a place, teamfight usually/bound to a tempest. In Wvw scourge is basically removed due to the target limit changes, and roamers stick to Core (or Reaper if they want to limit themselves to one region (and always Wurm ready)).

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

> > Even 4 minstrel healbots will melt a core necro 4v1. I have absolutely no idea what you would have to pick to end up in a scenario you describe. This can only be explained with terrible players.

> >

> > In its strongest days (before the signet nerf) core had a life force degeneration of 1% on a traited signet build. It could stall the life force degeneration for the channel time of shroud4 as this generates life force and for the 8 second uptime of spectral armor. Besides that there was no way it could have outsustained the incoming damage with in shroud life force generation.

> >

> > People watch a video of a bunker core necro popping spectral armor (45 second cooldown and an important stunbreak!) before entering shroud and sustain the damage of a bruiser for 8 seconds. Then they come to the conclusion that the class is broken. Laughable!

> >

> > Math:

> > - spectral armor generates 8% of life force on hit with an ICD of 1 second

> > - if you have 20k life force then 8% is 1600 life force

> > - shroud decreases incoming damage by 50%

> > - this means when used in shroud, spectral armor can nullify 3200 damage per second over a duration of 8 seconds at a 45s cooldown

> > - if the applied protection is not stripped or corrupted, then it's about 4000 damage per second

> > - spectral armor does not stop shroud from degenerating, so you have to substract the degeneration per second from the value above

> > - it is basically necro's form of an "oh sh** button" that every class has - and for necro it's not a simple utility skill, but a combo of a utility skill and shroud, so you have to burn 2 cooldowns for the effect

> > - this is far from broken and far from "it can tank a 1v4"

> > - and since core necro is low on damage itsef, it is extremely easy to just stop attacking for 8 seconds and kite

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Core Necro became obnoxious with subsequent patches in an attempt to give it a more definitive role as the durable Necromancer spec. It was, and to a degree still is, powerful in PvP for this reason. In WvW it is, and has been, outshone by both Reaper and Scourge for a long time. It's durability is only problematic in 1v1's or outnumbered fights against clueless players - but this is something just about any class can achieve with moderate skill. It has virtually no impact on WvW other than forcing players who commit to the Necro to waste an extra 60 seconds trying to kill it when compared to many other classes (oh no!).

>

> I had advocated for the nerfing of core Necro some months ago when it became stupid. In many ways it still is, but again, it only really impacts very small scale encounters so I don't see how it's an issue. Unlike many other classes that can access builds capable of at minimum perma-contesting a keep and being virtually unkillable, Necromancer isn't going to get away from a few angry pugs. It sits on the same bench as condi Herald. It has a niche. It is not oppressive, just obnoxious. It still needs tweaks, it doesn't need to be gutted.

>

> I don't know why this conversation turned in to a discussion about core anyway, but that's my two cents on the matter.

Core is the most durable spec in the game when it comes to soaking up damage. In contrast it is the least mobile spec and the spec with the smallest burst.

 

It is forgiving when matched against players that mash all their skills and get a problem with their rotation when the target is still alive. Peeling core requires some basic understanding about how it works and this is the problem here: the level of skill of most players ends at this point.

 

Core is extremely easy to beat when you are simply patient and bait its spectrals and shroud and burst in between. Every other spec can reset or kite a core necro. You have endless chances to win against it if you mess up. This is such a big disadvantage, that core simply sucks in most scenarios. Your only chance to win as core is an overextending encounter.

 

I main necro. If core was so strong I would play it. And if it was so easy to play as everyone says I should have no issues succeeding with it. But I don't play it. For one reason: it sucks and at the skill level I pick my encounters, everyone can outplay it, because it is slow, it lacks burst and its key skills can easily be nullified!

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > while roaming has seen a resurgence of near unkillable core necros. I've seen core necros shroud tank 4 people without them being able to break through it, cause they kept regenerating about as much shroud as they did damage lol. And of course after they drop shroud, they are back to 100% as soon as it's on cd.

> > > Even 4 minstrel healbots will melt a core necro 4v1. I have absolutely no idea what you would have to pick to end up in a scenario you describe. This can only be explained with terrible players.

> > >

> > > In its strongest days (before the signet nerf) core had a life force degeneration of 1% on a traited signet build. It could stall the life force degeneration for the channel time of shroud4 as this generates life force and for the 8 second uptime of spectral armor. Besides that there was no way it could have outsustained the incoming damage with in shroud life force generation.

> > >

> > > People watch a video of a bunker core necro popping spectral armor (45 second cooldown and an important stunbreak!) before entering shroud and sustain the damage of a bruiser for 8 seconds. Then they come to the conclusion that the class is broken. Laughable!

> > >

> > > Math:

> > > - spectral armor generates 8% of life force on hit with an ICD of 1 second

> > > - if you have 20k life force then 8% is 1600 life force

> > > - shroud decreases incoming damage by 50%

> > > - this means when used in shroud, spectral armor can nullify 3200 damage per second over a duration of 8 seconds at a 45s cooldown

> > > - if the applied protection is not stripped or corrupted, then it's about 4000 damage per second

> > > - spectral armor does not stop shroud from degenerating, so you have to substract the degeneration per second from the value above

> > > - it is basically necro's form of an "oh sh** button" that every class has - and for necro it's not a simple utility skill, but a combo of a utility skill and shroud, so you have to burn 2 cooldowns for the effect

> > > - this is far from broken and far from "it can tank a 1v4"

> > > - and since core necro is low on damage itsef, it is extremely easy to just stop attacking for 8 seconds and kite

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Core Necro became obnoxious with subsequent patches in an attempt to give it a more definitive role as the durable Necromancer spec. It was, and to a degree still is, powerful in PvP for this reason. In WvW it is, and has been, outshone by both Reaper and Scourge for a long time. It's durability is only problematic in 1v1's or outnumbered fights against clueless players - but this is something just about any class can achieve with moderate skill. It has virtually no impact on WvW other than forcing players who commit to the Necro to waste an extra 60 seconds trying to kill it when compared to many other classes (oh no!).

> >

> > I had advocated for the nerfing of core Necro some months ago when it became stupid. In many ways it still is, but again, it only really impacts very small scale encounters so I don't see how it's an issue. Unlike many other classes that can access builds capable of at minimum perma-contesting a keep and being virtually unkillable, Necromancer isn't going to get away from a few angry pugs. It sits on the same bench as condi Herald. It has a niche. It is not oppressive, just obnoxious. It still needs tweaks, it doesn't need to be gutted.

> >

> > I don't know why this conversation turned in to a discussion about core anyway, but that's my two cents on the matter.

> Core is the most durable spec in the game when it comes to soaking up damage. In contrast it is the least mobile spec and the spec with the smallest burst.

>

> It is forgiving when matched against players that mash all their skills and get a problem with their rotation when the target is still alive. Peeling core requires some basic understanding about how it works and this is the problem here. The level of skill of most players ends at this point.

>

> Core is extremely easy to beat when you are simply patient. Every other spec can reset or kite a core necro. You have endless chances to win against it if you mess up. This is such a big disadvantage, that core simply sucks in most scenarios. You only chance to win as core is an overextending encounter.

>

> I main necro. If core was so strong I would play it. And if it was so easy to play as everyone says I should have no issues succeeding with it. But I don't play it. For one reason: it sucks and at the skill level I pick my encounters, everyone can outplay it, because it is slow, it is immobile and its key skills can easily be nullified!

 

Pretty much. It is and has been my favorite spec since pretty much the beginning, and I still main it. I'm a very average player, but I know my class and my strategic knowledge often helps where my mechanical skill is lacking. I'm able to dip in and out of zergs or heavily over extend in small scale fights because of this.

 

But yeah, when against an opponent that isn't a complete ape, it becomes significantly more difficult to succeed for many of the reasons you've outlined. With that said, I don't think the damage is that bad though. The problem is that to get good damage you have to go mostly/completely glass and that makes you an extremely easy kill.

 

Either way, I still love it more than anything else. I just hope ANet doesn't gut core Shroud in some way to reduce all the complaints about it's durability.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> With that said, I don't think the damage is that bad though. The problem is that to get good damage you have to go mostly/completely glass and that makes you an extremely easy kill.

Yes that's what I wanted to point out. The builds that work somehow are all low on damage. A full zerk scholar core necro can deal some not too shabby 3k 1200 range shroud autos even in pvp. The problem is that you won't cast more than 2 or 3 before you are dead.

 

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > With that said, I don't think the damage is that bad though. The problem is that to get good damage you have to go mostly/completely glass and that makes you an extremely easy kill.

> Yes that's what I wanted to point out. The builds that work somehow are all low on damage. A full zerk scholar core necro can deal some not too shabby 3k 1200 range shroud autos even in pvp. The problem is that you won't cast more than 2 or 3 before you are dead.

>

 

Shhh don't tell anyone about this. It'll be our secret.

 

I wish I had screen capped all the 10 - 12k Life Blasts I got on people before the Dread rework ): Those were fun times.

 

Also for clarity, I know this kind of damage is far from possible in PvP. I just wanted to share some relevant pictures about how hard core can hit, mind you Spinal Shivers can be done with any spec so it isn't a _core skill_ but what ever.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

 

> The Well changes and near immediate backpedal is just depressing. Necro is the backbone of large scale WvW and I understand the fear of making them too powerful, but... I really hate ANets habit of giving something only to immediately take it away. Not something I missed since I've been gone.

 

Just wanted to say that Anet actually forgot to keep the Well CD and the target cap on shades the same in Competitive scene they mentioned that it wasn't meant to be buffed in WvW/PvP on stream but forgot, wells was basically bought back to it's normal CD from before the patch with the new buff to Well of Darkness, while Shades were made to 2 target (4 target if you include yourself as the scourge)

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

Keep in mind the changes to skills with control effects back in February where damage was mostly nerfed to zero in competitive play.

 

Core Necro suddenly looked OP because it no longer had to eat the damage on CC.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > With that said, I don't think the damage is that bad though. The problem is that to get good damage you have to go mostly/completely glass and that makes you an extremely easy kill.

> > Yes that's what I wanted to point out. The builds that work somehow are all low on damage. A full zerk scholar core necro can deal some not too shabby 3k 1200 range shroud autos even in pvp. The problem is that you won't cast more than 2 or 3 before you are dead.

> >

>

> Shhh don't tell anyone about this. It'll be our secret.

>

> I wish I had screen capped all the 10 - 12k Life Blasts I got on people before the Dread rework ): Those were fun times.

>

> Also for clarity, I know this kind of damage is far from possible in PvP. I just wanted to share some relevant pictures about how hard core can hit, mind you Spinal Shivers can be done with any spec so it isn't a _core skill_ but what ever.

Are these 14k spinal shivers dread (old version) exploits? Otherwise these numbers are only possible against upscaled enemies (these are wvw shots, but I was referring to pvp with my 3k example).

 

An opening (no might, no vuln, no soul barbs etc.) spinal shivers from a full ascended berserker necro on a full ascended berserker or marauder thief removing 3 boons deals roughly 8K critical damage. And then you are out of gas in terms of ranged pressure and the thief will just reset the fight and return being aware of your squishiness.

 

On a boonbeast spinal shivers deals roughly 2 to 3k damage removing 3 boons. The same goes for a minstrel firebrand that barely notices that the skill just hit him recently.

 

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > > With that said, I don't think the damage is that bad though. The problem is that to get good damage you have to go mostly/completely glass and that makes you an extremely easy kill.

> > > Yes that's what I wanted to point out. The builds that work somehow are all low on damage. A full zerk scholar core necro can deal some not too shabby 3k 1200 range shroud autos even in pvp. The problem is that you won't cast more than 2 or 3 before you are dead.

> > >

> >

> > Shhh don't tell anyone about this. It'll be our secret.

> >

> > I wish I had screen capped all the 10 - 12k Life Blasts I got on people before the Dread rework ): Those were fun times.

> >

> > Also for clarity, I know this kind of damage is far from possible in PvP. I just wanted to share some relevant pictures about how hard core can hit, mind you Spinal Shivers can be done with any spec so it isn't a _core skill_ but what ever.

> Are these 14k spinal shivers dread (old version) exploits? Otherwise these numbers are only possible against upscaled enemies (these are wvw shots, but I was referring to pvp with my 3k example).

>

> An opening (no might, no vuln, no soul barbs etc.) spinal shivers from a full ascended berserker necro on a full ascended berserker or marauder thief removing 3 boons deals roughly 8K critical damage. And then you are out of gas in terms of ranged pressure and the thief will just reset the fight and return being aware of your squishiness.

>

> On a boonbeast spinal shivers deals roughly 2 to 3k damage removing 3 boons. The same goes for a minstrel firebrand that barely notices that the skill just hit him recently.

>

 

Exploits? No, and I was not aware there were any.

 

I still regularly hit 10 - 11k Spinal Shivers. I just hit a Holo yesterday for 11k, but that is typically the highest I'll hit. Anything above that is extremely circumstantial. Eg. having a lot of Might and my opponent having a lot of Vuln or something.

 

But yes, all those shots were pre-patch, though I do believe I could still get to at least 12.5k at the highest even now.

 

I wasn't trying to disprove or disagree with anything you were saying, by the way. Merely stating with examples that core Necro can hit like a train despite some people saying it is lacking in damage. I don't have any trouble shredding people for the most part, though smarter players that don't let me abuse terrain are a different story.

 

Also, I'm not sure where we're going with this conversation anymore :P

[KrHome.1920]

The spinal shivers numbers are the same as before. That skill was not nerfed in the feb25 patch, because it has lots of drawbacks justifying a multiplier above 2.0, which anet said will be an exceptional value for a very limited number of skills.

 

And spinal shivers is one of these because: it needs 3 boons, has a long cast time, hits only one target, is 1 of only 2 ranged burst skills necro has access to.

 

A minior difference is that (except gimmick skills like blood is power) reaper can't build up 25 might in a 1v1 anymore, which also affects the impact of spinal shivers of course. But to land more than 10k hits with this skill your target is either upscaled, wears blue or sublevel80 trash armor or you are heavily buffed (25 might and other multipliers) and he is debuffed (like 25 vulnerability he doesn't care about and gets punished for that).

 

> Also, I'm not sure where we're going with this conversation anymore

I am also out of this thread now. ;) Everything is said...

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> tldr; I have two computers but only one can support GW2. Said computer is getting a little old and needed to go in for a fix up.

> **I have been away for a little over 3 months (since roughly the end of May)** and would like to know what things have changed from my fellow Necromancers.

>

> If anyone could quote me on what ever those things are, I know at least a few like something to do with Blood Magic? As well as including your own thoughts on said changes, I'd appreciate it.

>

> I know I could just go back and read through previous notes, but I'd honestly prefer to get them from you guys.

>

> **EDIT**

> Okay I've read through most of the patch notes anyway, but I still want to discuss some of these things for the sake of curiosity and conversation. If you have any thoughts please write away!

 

Just always assume that if there was a balance patch, necro got nerfed. or they got such a insignificant buff in something that was already negligible that it doesn't matter. it is how most balance patches go with necro. they never get TRULY buffed

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > tldr; I have two computers but only one can support GW2. Said computer is getting a little old and needed to go in for a fix up.

> > **I have been away for a little over 3 months (since roughly the end of May)** and would like to know what things have changed from my fellow Necromancers.

> >

> > If anyone could quote me on what ever those things are, I know at least a few like something to do with Blood Magic? As well as including your own thoughts on said changes, I'd appreciate it.

> >

> > I know I could just go back and read through previous notes, but I'd honestly prefer to get them from you guys.

> >

> > **EDIT**

> > Okay I've read through most of the patch notes anyway, but I still want to discuss some of these things for the sake of curiosity and conversation. If you have any thoughts please write away!

>

> Just always assume that if there was a balance patch, necro got nerfed. or they got such a insignificant buff in something that was already negligible that it doesn't matter. it is how most balance patches go with necro. they never get TRULY buffed

 

As a general rule, one is to ignore this troll. All he ever does is post gloom and doom on this forum and he doesn't even play. In his mind, a necro should be doing top condi dps and won't stop whining until it does so (which it may well never do). He argues that necro is the King of Condis....which shows how he misunderstood the role of necro when it comes to condis. It is the King of Condi MANAGEMENT not Condi OUTPUT.