Trapper runes DH

[Dantheman.3589]

The real question is- would ppl be complaining about any rune with 0 icd on skill usage. Think would a power wells chrono with perma quickness + cc + nonstop damage in team fights just snowballing nonstop in ranked and ats be a problem? I’m sure it would be as it wouldn’t have counter play unless you can cc the chrono- but then they might just use stealth- QQ.

[ollbirtan.2915]

When the rune is removed, I hope y'all got ya pitchforks ready for a new target! Nerf everything!

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

>

> This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

>

> You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

>

> Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

>

> Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

 

Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> >

> > This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

> >

> > You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

> >

> > Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

> >

> > Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

>

> Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

 

Have you even read anything else I posted in this thread?

 

I think it's an easy build for anyone with a brain to counter.

 

But given that that's too much to expect from people, the best alternative is to nerf the rune, rather than butchering the entire guardian class. Because you know it's coming, I can already feel it. By January the cries for guardian nerfs will be overwhelming. The choice is to have the entire class be unplayable, or, just this one build with this one rune.

[Kachros.4751]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

>

> I dont agree

> Because having damage is fine so long as you are squishy for having that damage

> However stealth and superspeed provide a means of sustain that it should not have even if that stealth only drops traget for a second or two. A second or two with super speed can make a massive difference in positioning which can provide sustain that it otherwise wouldnt have.

>

> High damage but squishy is fine

> Low damage but more sustain is fine

> High damage and high sustain is not fine unless you are a snail.

> I do count mechanics like stealth as added sustain because its a drop target and assuming nothin walks into the traps and you dont get revealed its time you have to take the advantage or wait for cds.

>

> Needs to be changed for a few reasons.

> No class should be able to add stealth + superspeed to its near its entire utility kit if this existed for something that only worked on necro or warrior skills you wouldnt agree with it and would say the rune should be removed because broken bonuses and only works with one two other classes.

> Secondly it only works for 2 classes DH and Ranger so saying that DH is the only one that uses it really has no value in your point. Other classes dont use it because other classes dont have traps to activate the strongest part of the rune.

>

> DH at a base level likely needs very few changes and nerfs to traps are not one of them.

> The constant burn when speared maybe could be looked into because there is no way to avoid 12k incoming condi damage once speared unless you go invuln or have the power to spam clears our the wazooo. True shot could maybe get a slight shave too. Other than that imo DH would be fine imo.

>

> But as it sits right now you are generally fighting the runes mechanics and not the traps or other DH skills and thats not a good thing. Its similar to the Mad king rune situation which was nerfed a while back. Only like 2 classes were making use of it but it was super powerful when used with their low cd elite skills

 

Yet this class is squishy and dies to even a thief in about 4 seconds. Most of the traps does damage and can instnatly reveal them from stealth. actually casting f1 is the most stupid thing a burn dh can do unless they take the virtues traitline (to allow passives constantly) but should they use f1 its easily dodged. I mean its not like you see trap rangers being viable... and its because NO ONE stands in the aoes and so they dont die... literally just do that with guardian and there wouldnt be an issue but most people cant press W out of the aoes. If you try to argue that it has good damage offnode then its because of the f1 passive again which is why i say it should be nerfed and not the rune itself.

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> > >

> > > This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

> > >

> > > You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

> > >

> > > Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

> > >

> > > Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

> >

> > Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

>

> Have you even read anything else I posted in this thread?

>

> I think it's an easy build for anyone with a brain to counter.

>

> But given that that's too much to expect from people, the best alternative is to nerf the rune, rather than butchering the entire guardian class.

 

Granted i did say in my post i was too lazy to read every other comment, so no. But these nerfs would affect the class but for a good reason. Its just stuck in a "afk aoe node spam" which isnt fun or healthy for the game, so just change t hat and its fine no?

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> > > >

> > > > This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

> > > >

> > > > You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

> > > >

> > > > Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

> > > >

> > > > Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

> > >

> > > Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

> >

> > Have you even read anything else I posted in this thread?

> >

> > I think it's an easy build for anyone with a brain to counter.

> >

> > But given that that's too much to expect from people, the best alternative is to nerf the rune, rather than butchering the entire guardian class.

>

> Granted i did say in my post i was too lazy to read every other comment, so no. But these nerfs would affect the class but for a good reason. Its just stuck in a "afk aoe node spam" which isnt fun or healthy for the game, so just change t hat and its fine no?

 

/facepalm

 

Let's say there are 10 guardian builds.

 

1 of them is over-performing, the other 9 are under-performing.

 

Should we

 

a) Nerf stuff that affects all 10, thereby making the 9 under-performing EVEN worse

or

b) Nerf the specific thing that is making the 1 over-performing strong.

 

I can't believe this is a choice you even need to think about.

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

> > > > >

> > > > > You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

> > >

> > > Have you even read anything else I posted in this thread?

> > >

> > > I think it's an easy build for anyone with a brain to counter.

> > >

> > > But given that that's too much to expect from people, the best alternative is to nerf the rune, rather than butchering the entire guardian class.

> >

> > Granted i did say in my post i was too lazy to read every other comment, so no. But these nerfs would affect the class but for a good reason. Its just stuck in a "afk aoe node spam" which isnt fun or healthy for the game, so just change t hat and its fine no?

>

> /facepalm

>

> Let's say there are 10 guardian builds.

>

> 1 of them is over-performing, the other 9 are under-performing.

>

> Should we

>

> a) Nerf stuff that affects all 10, thereby making the 9 under-performing EVEN worse

> or

> b) Nerf the specific thing that is making the 1 over-performing strong.

>

> I can't believe this is a choice you even need to think about.

 

Okay but thats not the case in the slightest. That situation isnt similar to this either. Core guardian isnt viable because its only build was symbol monkey. They nerfed symbols as a whole (oh wait thats the whole class) instead of realising it was the f1 passive that was the issue. Because this passive was ignored its stayed a problem until now. Offnode dh has literally 0 value and it doenst have infinite cooldowns so maybe like... dont stand on node and then pressure from range and its not an issue anymore. Nerfing a rune because of peoples lack of skill and IQ to move offnode isnt a justified reason. If you look at any high level game thats exactly what they do. They go offnode and kite and dh was basically useless like its not that hard to do and therefore ISNT an issue except when people decide node > life.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > > > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

> > > >

> > > > Have you even read anything else I posted in this thread?

> > > >

> > > > I think it's an easy build for anyone with a brain to counter.

> > > >

> > > > But given that that's too much to expect from people, the best alternative is to nerf the rune, rather than butchering the entire guardian class.

> > >

> > > Granted i did say in my post i was too lazy to read every other comment, so no. But these nerfs would affect the class but for a good reason. Its just stuck in a "afk aoe node spam" which isnt fun or healthy for the game, so just change t hat and its fine no?

> >

> > /facepalm

> >

> > Let's say there are 10 guardian builds.

> >

> > 1 of them is over-performing, the other 9 are under-performing.

> >

> > Should we

> >

> > a) Nerf stuff that affects all 10, thereby making the 9 under-performing EVEN worse

> > or

> > b) Nerf the specific thing that is making the 1 over-performing strong.

> >

> > I can't believe this is a choice you even need to think about.

>

> Okay but thats not the case in the slightest. That situation isnt similar to this either. Core guardian isnt viable because its only build was symbol monkey. They nerfed symbols as a whole (oh wait thats the whole class) instead of realising it was the f1 passive that was the issue. Because this passive was ignored its stayed a problem until now. Offnode dh has literally 0 value and it doenst have infinite cooldowns so maybe like... dont stand on node and then pressure from range and its not an issue anymore. Nerfing a rune because of peoples lack of skill and IQ to move offnode isnt a justified reason. If you look at any high level game thats exactly what they do. They go offnode and kite and dh was basically useless like its not that hard to do and therefore ISNT an issue except when people decide node > life.

 

F1 passive was not the issue with symbol-monkey. It is not an issue now with core builds or FB, or even most DH builds.

 

You want to nerf core-burning or sage-brand, because of Trapper DH. This is insanity.

[Kachros.4751]

Okay look at symbol monkey with guard, easily kept up 5 burning because of the passive even just using sylbmols with autoattack, thats 2k damage each second just because you spent 1 second not dodging or blocking. So it got a symbol reduce nerf. Its not insanity, i mean the build doesnt need a nerf if people learn to use their brain in all honesty.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> Okay look at symbol monkey with guard, easily kept up 5 burning because of the passive even just using sylbmols with autoattack, thats 2k damage each second just because you spent 1 second not dodging or blocking. So it got a symbol reduce nerf. Its not insanity, i mean the build doesnt need a nerf if people learn to use their brain in all honesty.

 

No, the problem with symbol monkey was that it covered the entire node.

 

The nerf to symbol radius was entirely warranted and a good thing.

 

If F1 was the real problem, then symbol-monkey would still be a thing. It isn't.

[Kachros.4751]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > Okay look at symbol monkey with guard, easily kept up 5 burning because of the passive even just using sylbmols with autoattack, thats 2k damage each second just because you spent 1 second not dodging or blocking. So it got a symbol reduce nerf. Its not insanity, i mean the build doesnt need a nerf if people learn to use their brain in all honesty.

>

> No, the problem with symbol monkey was that it covered the entire node.

>

> The nerf to symbol radius was entirely warranted and a good thing.

>

> If F1 was the real problem, then symbol-monkey would still be a thing. It isn't.

 

The only reason it isnt a thing is because renegade just done everything better. The builds viability barely changed other than the fact it takes longer to pressure as its survivability is the same. But the entire community refuses to adapt and learn, or to find a middleground its either "kill this" or "kill that" with 0 thinking process of "how do i beat this". If people did dh wouldnt be a problem.

[Buran.3796]

The whole complaint is absurd. I kill DH and Renegades plenty of times riding a power Shiro with near 0 cleanses and running zerk amulet. The times I die, is my fault due making mistakes. No build is broken in this meta of underpowered damage.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> >

> > I dont agree

> > Because having damage is fine so long as you are squishy for having that damage

> > However stealth and superspeed provide a means of sustain that it should not have even if that stealth only drops traget for a second or two. A second or two with super speed can make a massive difference in positioning which can provide sustain that it otherwise wouldnt have.

> >

> > High damage but squishy is fine

> > Low damage but more sustain is fine

> > High damage and high sustain is not fine unless you are a snail.

> > I do count mechanics like stealth as added sustain because its a drop target and assuming nothin walks into the traps and you dont get revealed its time you have to take the advantage or wait for cds.

> >

> > Needs to be changed for a few reasons.

> > No class should be able to add stealth + superspeed to its near its entire utility kit if this existed for something that only worked on necro or warrior skills you wouldnt agree with it and would say the rune should be removed because broken bonuses and only works with one two other classes.

> > Secondly it only works for 2 classes DH and Ranger so saying that DH is the only one that uses it really has no value in your point. Other classes dont use it because other classes dont have traps to activate the strongest part of the rune.

> >

> > DH at a base level likely needs very few changes and nerfs to traps are not one of them.

> > The constant burn when speared maybe could be looked into because there is no way to avoid 12k incoming condi damage once speared unless you go invuln or have the power to spam clears our the wazooo. True shot could maybe get a slight shave too. Other than that imo DH would be fine imo.

> >

> > But as it sits right now you are generally fighting the runes mechanics and not the traps or other DH skills and thats not a good thing. Its similar to the Mad king rune situation which was nerfed a while back. Only like 2 classes were making use of it but it was super powerful when used with their low cd elite skills

>

> Yet this class is squishy and dies to even a thief in about 4 seconds. Most of the traps does damage and can instnatly reveal them from stealth. actually casting f1 is the most stupid thing a burn dh can do unless they take the virtues traitline (to allow passives constantly) but should they use f1 its easily dodged. I mean its not like you see trap rangers being viable... and its because NO ONE stands in the aoes and so they dont die... literally just do that with guardian and there wouldnt be an issue but most people cant press W out of the aoes. If you try to argue that it has good damage offnode then its because of the f1 passive again which is why i say it should be nerfed and not the rune itself.

 

Its dodged easily if its not thrown from stealth if thrown from stealth you are dodging on rng which is not really feasible but again thats a rune mechanic making it stronger than what it is.

Actually no casting the F1 and leaving it in a target who cant get out of range actually deals alot of unavoidable damage as the only thing that stops those conditions from being applied at taht point is to clear them or be invuln. Evades dont stop the incoming burn or cripple which can actually kill alot of builds on its own. Granted you shouldn't use the pull unless the spear is about to expire or you are about to make a big play but literally go spear a player and just watch them melt i do it all the time. There are a few builds that strat wont work on but a large portion of them it does work on.

 

Its less about the aoes and more about the extra sustain trapper rune provides by adding strong effects on trap use that dragon hunter or really any class should not have period. Again its less about dealing with the traps or the dragon hunter skills and more dealing with the mechanics of the rune. While yes you can take damage from the traps to force reveal the caster why would anyone want to take free damage depending on the situation thats not a good thing or does it make a difference the break target for a second or two with super speed provides and advantage thats pretty massive.

 

I would rather see the root of the issue go so then people have less to complain about, people are less bothered by DH and more bothered by the rune mechanics which says enough. Lets not nerf the class because a rune is making it stronger than it should be just fix the issue by changing the rune or removing it. Thats what they did for mad king rune.

[Kachros.4751]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Kachros.4751" said:

> > > > Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

> > >

> > > I dont agree

> > > Because having damage is fine so long as you are squishy for having that damage

> > > However stealth and superspeed provide a means of sustain that it should not have even if that stealth only drops traget for a second or two. A second or two with super speed can make a massive difference in positioning which can provide sustain that it otherwise wouldnt have.

> > >

> > > High damage but squishy is fine

> > > Low damage but more sustain is fine

> > > High damage and high sustain is not fine unless you are a snail.

> > > I do count mechanics like stealth as added sustain because its a drop target and assuming nothin walks into the traps and you dont get revealed its time you have to take the advantage or wait for cds.

> > >

> > > Needs to be changed for a few reasons.

> > > No class should be able to add stealth + superspeed to its near its entire utility kit if this existed for something that only worked on necro or warrior skills you wouldnt agree with it and would say the rune should be removed because broken bonuses and only works with one two other classes.

> > > Secondly it only works for 2 classes DH and Ranger so saying that DH is the only one that uses it really has no value in your point. Other classes dont use it because other classes dont have traps to activate the strongest part of the rune.

> > >

> > > DH at a base level likely needs very few changes and nerfs to traps are not one of them.

> > > The constant burn when speared maybe could be looked into because there is no way to avoid 12k incoming condi damage once speared unless you go invuln or have the power to spam clears our the wazooo. True shot could maybe get a slight shave too. Other than that imo DH would be fine imo.

> > >

> > > But as it sits right now you are generally fighting the runes mechanics and not the traps or other DH skills and thats not a good thing. Its similar to the Mad king rune situation which was nerfed a while back. Only like 2 classes were making use of it but it was super powerful when used with their low cd elite skills

> >

> > Yet this class is squishy and dies to even a thief in about 4 seconds. Most of the traps does damage and can instnatly reveal them from stealth. actually casting f1 is the most stupid thing a burn dh can do unless they take the virtues traitline (to allow passives constantly) but should they use f1 its easily dodged. I mean its not like you see trap rangers being viable... and its because NO ONE stands in the aoes and so they dont die... literally just do that with guardian and there wouldnt be an issue but most people cant press W out of the aoes. If you try to argue that it has good damage offnode then its because of the f1 passive again which is why i say it should be nerfed and not the rune itself.

>

> Its dodged easily if its not thrown from stealth if thrown from stealth you are dodging on rng which is not really feasible but again thats a rune mechanic making it stronger than what it is.

 

I mean it has a stealth cap of 2 seconds, there is a small chance that they manage to stay invisible for the chance to attack you, (dragons maw being the only good thing to use from stealth even has a blue smoke effect which if you are looking where you are, its dodgable)

 

> Actually no casting the F1 and leaving it in a target who cant get out of range actually deals alot of unavoidable damage as the only thing that stops those conditions from being applied at taht point is to clear them or be invuln. Evades dont stop the incoming burn or cripple which can actually kill alot of builds on its own. Granted you shouldn't use the pull unless the spear is about to expire or you are about to make a big play but literally go spear a player and just watch them melt i do it all the time. There are a few builds that strat wont work on but a large portion of them it does work on.

 

I mean you said yourself, a way to get out of it is to go out of range. But actually using f1 and losing the passive is one of the dumbest things to do on a burn dh if you want node pressure (which is its entire job/role), and i mean to dodge t he spear itself, it has an obvious animation and isnt hard to dodge at all. Leaving the dh with low pressure.

 

> Its less about the aoes and more about the extra sustain trapper rune provides by adding strong effects on trap use that dragon hunter or really any class should not have period. Again its less about dealing with the traps or the dragon hunter skills and more dealing with the mechanics of the rune. While yes you can take damage from the traps to force reveal the caster why would anyone want to take free damage depending on the situation thats not a good thing or does it make a difference the break target for a second or two with super speed provides and advantage thats pretty massive.

 

I mean technically the class doesnt have much sustain, all you need to kill it is a thief with more than 3 IQ. It has 0 stunbreaks and so 1 well timed venom can kill it. In most cases one tries to avoid taking damage yes but as it has low crit chance its damage would be very minor unless you were at like 2k hp (which lets be honest wont happen if you stay offpoint). While superspeed is really strong DH only has 2 methods of cleansing conditions and they are both very situational and so there is a high chance to be able to permanently immob the dh.

 

> I would rather see the root of the issue go so then people have less to complain about, people are less bothered by DH and more bothered by the rune mechanics which says enough. Lets not nerf the class because a rune is making it stronger than it should be just fix the issue by changing the rune or removing it. Thats what they did for mad king rune.

 

Thinking back and trying to change my own mind on the rune, i realised, while i dont still wish to remove it, a nerf is needed so that maybe the superspeed isnt stackable either and/or the stealth is removed. This drastically changes its survivability already just losing the stealth but personally i fail to see the mass issue with DH as its still easy to kill even now and has such an easy way to counterplay it.