Kachros.4751

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Performance of Thief is bad after 8 init shortbow 5. > > Honestly that change needs to be reverted. The performance of thief (like every class that isnt busted) is good if in the hands of a good player, if in the hands of a bad player then said thief value will be very low, thats how classes SHOULD be in pvp.

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > When you go from being uncontested in your role for ages to actually having competition from other classes... I can see how you'd feel that your class is dead. > > 8 ini was a lazy change... but so are the majority of nerfs Anet deals out (Core engi nerfs). I don't see why thief should get special treatment. Personally im quite happy with the change, i still play thief a bit but it never really impacts me too much because SA still exists, and it still saves me from situations that i should die in. I only ever die if i facetank attacks lol.

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > As a roamer not as good. I still think it has use in a duelist role and +1er The +1er part is being a roamer, it was always the role of thief to do that anyways.

> @"lare.5129" said: > concept of sb5 is broken, so old thief is dead. New thief is not dead. Could you explain this please? I dont fully understand what you mean.

It depends on where you stand and where you aim it, reverting it to 6 ini would be a really, really, really bad choice so i mean all i can really say is watch where you are when the arrow lands, that way it shouldnt bug.

> @"avey.4201" said: > Zerk DH in condi bunker meta auto attacks is the only source of damage, but they still managed to nerf a 6 damage skill further by breaking it's use with teleport utility. > Not only are traps nonviable, they're now nonfunctional. You realise the fact you could TP traps while they are being placed was a bug right? It should not work that way, the whole concept of traps is preparing them ahead of time to, you know, TRAP the enemy. If you believe that they are both nonviable AND nonfunctional you just dont know how to get value from them, they have insane node pressure and can actually still secure a kill if placed correctly.

> @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > So the crux of your argument is the build, based on metabattle, isn't strictly meta therefore shouldn't be nerfed / can in no way can be a problem or threat? > > > > ... > > > > You must be new here. > > Loads of stuff in that category has been changed in the past. > > I don't care about how often it's done, I don't see the logic behind it. have you seen "good" builds in plat games? the crux of my argument is they aren't even remotely meta. have you even seen a decap druid in high ranked games? have you seen a druid in a team that has won monthly ATs? The build is not that effective compared to broken builds. Dragon hunter and rev short bow should be the priority. The nerfs weren't that bad, but I maintain that they were uncalled for and bottom priority. Your logic here is flawed, very flawed, just because something is meta does not make it "fine" for pvp, to clarify Fraelin played decap druid and won the last mAT, that alone is misinformation on your part, lets say for example some of the "meta" builds get nerfed, guess whats gonna happen. Yeah, decap druid would be good again, they are providing nerfs for future issues as well as issues at hand, its a good choice which we have needed for a long time.

> @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > > @"Kachros.4751" said: > > > @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > > > Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest. > > > > > > Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is. > > > > > > Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead. > > > > > > Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance. > > > > This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp. > > decap druid isn't easy. I sense you haven't tried playing it. It's no weaver, but it's not walk in the park. you can easily waste your knockbacks anand misplay, get killed or waste your time, render yourself useless. Ive played it numerous times vs both good and bad players, you have 3 knockbacks in about 8 seconds (with quickdraw), if you use even 1 IQ you bait enemy dodge and its easy, it takes next to 0 effort to keep a node decapped, the only scenario in which its not easy is if you vs a hard counter for it, being renegade or warrior. In terms of gameplay weaver is actually harder as you only need to know 3 things for druid, in terms of surviving druid is harder as it has very little counter pressure due to its very low damage, however that doesnt stop the gameplay being so brain afk. Supporting builds like this which do 0 damage, just provide insane value for little effort (especially in ranked and lower levels) is what makes pvp so bad right now, its a bunker/decap metas that get complained about the most and for good reason, keeping builds like this viable makes pvp overall worse and targeting them for nerfs is a good choice, there are some players who wish to keep builds like these as it can be personal preference but the fact remains that its not healthy for pvp.

> @"Kachros.4751" said: > > @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > > Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest. > > > > Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is. > > > > Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead. > > > > Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance. > > This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp. Just to clarify, i am in no sense defending DH either, there are many builds that were not touched upon enough within the last patch, or in the last few patches for that matter, however they have targeted good spots for those few degenerate builds that deserved their nerfs, whether or not its enough is up for debate however.

> @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest. > > Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is. > > Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead. > > Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance. This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp.

Thats just how the community is now, it doesnt strive to improve or anything like that. They just want the busted builds nerfed if its not their class. The entire forum is full of misinformation and bias bs. Thats what happens when pvp is neglected so badly after balance going hectic and now people have abandoned it. Its just a sad truth of pvp now.

I mean it was a very small patch that could be done in less than 1 minute, and the Q was lasting 5 minutes. I dont see how it would get in the way of anyone unless you have absolutely trash internet, not defending the fact the timing was bad its no where near as bad as "ridiculous" xd

> @"Filip.7463" said: > > @"Kachros.4751" said: > > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is **not** equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp. > > > > > > What is the big difference between core and dd, that core should need buff mobility? > > > > Core doesnt have 3 dodges, or perma swiftness, and overall always did less than DD in every aspect, id like core to keep the initiative from before the nerf if condi thief was slightly changed since its still quite unhealthy. > > Why do u need perma swiftness while u have perma teleport? DD doesnt have perma TP, even if its not massive the perma swiftness is really good which barely any class can have, adding that onto the rest it made DDs mobility unmatchable, im jus comparing the 2 specs.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Kachros.4751" said: > > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs? > > > Where did u get info about damage nerf? > > > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...) > > **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed: > > I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again! > > However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen. > > Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths. > > If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all. Ye apologies on that, i didnt specify other issues. The only reason i would say to nerf ele in is the fact it has absurd passive damage and good barrier uptime, even as warrior if you CC its meant to be an "opportunity" to deal damage however ele passives does more than what warrior can if you stay near ele for more than 2 seconds. Thats my only issue with ele personally. Rev has been an issue for over 2 years now being in the meta somehow or other with builds that are a tier above everything else. Whether its renegade or herald and druid shouldve been removed from viability (decap) but stayed in. Assuming these 2 get changes ele might be next and meta will be less tanky (hopefully)

> @"Filip.7463" said: > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs? > Where did u get info about damage nerf? Im fairy certain this post was jus made as a joke against how the previous nerfs have been. Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. Holo might get a tiny change but it wont be massive i think since its position is pretty good.