what happened to water graphics?

[coso.9173]

It's something I've noticed on newer maps, sometimes the water looks considerably worse than it looked on the vanilla maps.

for example take this beautiful river and waterfall from Queensdale:


it looks nice,, water texture, different texture when it's near the rocks on the border, the cascade border has a special shine too.

and now in drizzlewood coast:


much low res texture, no special texture near the border, and looks much more flat.

and even:


you can even WALK underwater, I mean wtf? o.O

hopefully ANET devs will remember they already have beautiful water assets instead of creating newer ones with worse quality when creating new maps... and please remember underwater we should be SWIMMING. :)

 

[Ashantara.8731]

You can't usually walk in deep water unless its height is problematic and lets it bug out.

 

As for water textures...

 

Crystal Oasis:


 

Your waterfall in Queensdale:


 

Drizzlewood Coast:





 

I don't see anything wrong about the water at Drizzlewood Coast. If anything, it is more realistic than the old textures used in Central Tyria.

[Zephire.8049]

About the walking underwater thing, the game's engine works in such a way where swimming only activates under z-axis 0. If you have water above that point, any water you see is purely visual and not actual water. While it's technically possible for them to code "bubbles" of water above the z-axis, that apparently isn't as easy as it sounds so it's less about them forgetting to hit the "players swim here" button and more the environmental artists accidentally made a river too deep and neither the project manager nor QA tester(s) caught it before it made it to live servers. That or it was a low priority to fix before pushing the content.

[arielqueen.6587]

I'm aware of water graphics differences between vanilla, HoT, PoF and each LW season as OP said. I still prefer vanilla one, that looks more natural and beautiful.

[HotDelirium.7984]

They need to fix the bug when graphics are hidden behind the water even with the item is above the water but the texture acts like its in front of it i.e. the volatile magic orbs around certain water areas.

[coso.9173]


really? this looks good to you? to me it looks much worse than vanilla water.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> really? this looks good to you? to me it looks much worse than vanilla water.

 

Your graphics settings might be set to low. (?) Also, it looks like night time, right?

 

If you tell me the exact location, I can make a screenshot, too, and compare. :)

[Randulf.7614]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> 

> really? this looks good to you? to me it looks much worse than vanilla water.

>

 

Where is it? My water effects in PoF and beyond look great, so it’ll be interesting to where this specific one is just in case I’ve not noticed

[Dawdler.8521]

The location would be nice. I get the feeling that's some obscure location no one ever sees normally.

[Naxos.2503]

Fairly certain that specific shot is way out of reach. This is a typical low poly texture that doesn't require much processing power but still convey a lively picture from afar. I expect this is found at the edges of the map.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> Fairly certain that specific shot is way out of reach. This is a typical low poly texture that doesn't require much processing power but still convey a lively picture from afar. I expect this is found at the edges of the map.

Well, maybe not. I did some walkabout in Drizzlewood and yeah there are areas where the terrain is too low for the water. This water isnt the shaded and animated waterplane - that's why you can walk "below" it. But most places where you reasonably travel, it's ankle deep like it's supposed to be. Back of the spawn is an area where its way too high as an example (by the broken tree). Oversight by Anet map designers? Yeah. Does it have anything to do with the water graphics? No.

[coso.9173]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> Fairly certain that specific shot is way out of reach. This is a typical low poly texture that doesn't require much processing power but still convey a lively picture from afar. I expect this is found at the edges of the map.

 

it's literally next to the big tent in the hub of the map. you can just walk there.



 

 

[Naxos.2503]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> > @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > Fairly certain that specific shot is way out of reach. This is a typical low poly texture that doesn't require much processing power but still convey a lively picture from afar. I expect this is found at the edges of the map.

>

> it's literally next to the big tent in the hub of the map. you can just walk there.

> 

> 

>

>

 

In that case, that seem to be an oversight

[nosleepdemon.1368]

It's the Great Dihydrogen Monoxide Conspiracy. This is clear evidence that Arena Net have sold out to aliens, who will increase micro transaction prices so much that the world will explode. Nothing is safe; you better get your pitchforks.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> it's literally next to the big tent in the hub of the map. you can just walk there.

 

Yes, that spot wasn't designed for close-up visits, I agree. ;) But I posted different examples of this map earlier, so the more open and frequently visited spots are definitely much better designed.

 

I suppose they had to go with a simpler "floating water" solution in regard of the sheer amount of water on this gigantic map to ensure a smooth performance.

 

P.S. I found another spot on that map where you can walk underwater, due to the average water level in the area.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

> @"Zephire.8049" said:

> About the walking underwater thing, the game's engine works in such a way where swimming only activates under z-axis 0.

imagine having less freedom with water mapping than engines from the late 90s

 

[sorudo.9054]

the cryengine allows you to place water at any level as long as it's enclosed, GW2 is just using such an old engine that simple things like that are not possible.

better yet, back when half life was the top end game i made maps with plenty of other leveled water, it's all in the assigned entity.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> the cryengine allows you to place water at any level as long as it's enclosed, GW2 is just using such an old engine that simple things like that are not possible.

> better yet, back when half life was the top end game i made maps with plenty of other leveled water, it's all in the assigned entity.

Yes, both the advanced MMO engines that also allows 250+ players to play on the same map, just like GW2.

[Robban.1256]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> the cryengine allows you to place water at any level as long as it's enclosed, GW2 is just using such an old engine that simple things like that are not possible.

> better yet, back when half life was the top end game i made maps with plenty of other leveled water, it's all in the assigned entity.

 

"Water" under maps as base lvl=

Old trick that many, many, MANY developers use (I know for a fact Blizzard and Bethesda abuse this, as well as Valve)

 

It's just easier for every aspect of development to build your landscape inside of an ocean than painstakingly sculpt out individual rivers.

 

Water in games is traditionally a static object with a simple texture animation. This way, that animation is one size fits all (often times you'll see water flowing into the ground... this is because the water is a giant surface that clips through the ground... of you have Skyrim, go to Uncle Hadvar's place and look at the river for an example)

 

easier and simpler to check if players are underwater if you detect it by height than to check whether or not they're in a certain object.

 

Serves as a baseline when designing a map. Not necessary our even particularly useful, but it's nice to have a reference point when making canyons and mountains and shit.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Robban.1256" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > the cryengine allows you to place water at any level as long as it's enclosed, GW2 is just using such an old engine that simple things like that are not possible.

> > better yet, back when half life was the top end game i made maps with plenty of other leveled water, it's all in the assigned entity.

>

> "Water" under maps as base lvl=

> Old trick that many, many, MANY developers use (I know for a fact Blizzard and Bethesda abuse this, as well as Valve)

>

> It's just easier for every aspect of development to build your landscape inside of an ocean than painstakingly sculpt out individual rivers.

>

> Water in games is traditionally a static object with a simple texture animation. This way, that animation is one size fits all (often times you'll see water flowing into the ground... this is because the water is a giant surface that clips through the ground... of you have Skyrim, go to Uncle Hadvar's place and look at the river for an example)

>

> easier and simpler to check if players are underwater if you detect it by height than to check whether or not they're in a certain object.

>

> Serves as a baseline when designing a map. Not necessary our even particularly useful, but it's nice to have a reference point when making canyons and mountains and kitten.

>

 

i know this, as i have bin mapping since HL and moved on with several mapping programs. (some more annoying than others, yes, i am looking at you cryengine)

but what i mean is that there is a trick to make several leveled water without even using the base map water, that way devs can add different types of water since the base one is only one type that can't be changed per location.

 

if Anet used that trick instead of depending on whatever they did there, underwater waking wouldn't even be an issue. (at times the entity bugs out, it will then see it as a simple textured block and nothing more.)

[Dragon Priestess.9760]

I like the water in the POF maps. So sparkly!

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Robban.1256" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > the cryengine allows you to place water at any level as long as it's enclosed, GW2 is just using such an old engine that simple things like that are not possible.

> > > better yet, back when half life was the top end game i made maps with plenty of other leveled water, it's all in the assigned entity.

> >

> > "Water" under maps as base lvl=

> > Old trick that many, many, MANY developers use (I know for a fact Blizzard and Bethesda abuse this, as well as Valve)

> >

> > It's just easier for every aspect of development to build your landscape inside of an ocean than painstakingly sculpt out individual rivers.

> >

> > Water in games is traditionally a static object with a simple texture animation. This way, that animation is one size fits all (often times you'll see water flowing into the ground... this is because the water is a giant surface that clips through the ground... of you have Skyrim, go to Uncle Hadvar's place and look at the river for an example)

> >

> > easier and simpler to check if players are underwater if you detect it by height than to check whether or not they're in a certain object.

> >

> > Serves as a baseline when designing a map. Not necessary our even particularly useful, but it's nice to have a reference point when making canyons and mountains and kitten.

> >

>

> i know this, as i have bin mapping since HL and moved on with several mapping programs. (some more annoying than others, yes, i am looking at you cryengine)

> but what i mean is that there is a trick to make several leveled water without even using the base map water, that way devs can add different types of water since the base one is only one type that can't be changed per location.

>

> if Anet used that trick instead of depending on whatever they did there, underwater waking wouldn't even be an issue. (at times the entity bugs out, it will then see it as a simple textured block and nothing more.)

Again though, the GW2 engine isnt designed to be complex, its designed to allow 250+ players on the same map interacting with each other. For its world its got a heightmap, a waterplane, static objects and thats about it. Its shares more with BF1942 than HL if we want to compare ancient engines.