CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. Dayum I'm exposed again! Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 remove all runes ! left one amulet ! only one should stay ! that sound like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 This you? In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > This you? > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. Roots don't take condi and will straight up appear 300+ units away from you, they're inconsistent and need changing while keeping rangers lock down potential. Trapper Runes are working as intended, they're just really strong as is rangers immobilize capabilities. If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, then you're advocating for its removal. I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. Good try, but no dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > This you? > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. Roots don't take condi and will straight up appear 300+ units away from you, they're inconsistent and need changing while keeping rangers lock down potential. Trapper Runes are working as intended, they're just really strong as is rangers immobilize capabilities. > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, then you're advocating for its removal. I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > > Good try, but no dice. yea, need to go = changing. Which is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > remove all runes ! left one amulet ! only one should stay ! > that sound like that. So you are 10 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > > This you? > > > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. Roots don't take condi and will straight up appear 300+ units away from you, they're inconsistent and need changing while keeping rangers lock down potential. Trapper Runes are working as intended, they're just really strong as is rangers immobilize capabilities. > > > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, then you're advocating for its removal. I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > > > > Good try, but no dice. > > yea, need to go = changing. Which is true. Context. Not advocating removal of immob access or duration, but that the root system goes, or made consistent with range and being able to hit condi. If they did that, keep them as long as they work right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > This you? > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > You did this before, it's becoming boring. > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, Irrelevant to my point. >I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. This is the part worth responding to. You are also pushing for changes which are more then simple nerfs. I did the same. Trapper rune needs to be removed, if builds using traps completely fall out of the meta, dragonhunter can see some buffs as compensation. If a-net takes only the first half of this suggestion and runs with it, thats not my fault. I'm not the adult in a room full of children who need to be controlled by me. >...snip... > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, Do I know that? It seems like you know whats in my head better than I do... > then you're advocating for its removal. One of the ways you can end world hunger is by slaughtering the poor. Think about that next time a politician is talking about eradicating poverty! > I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. Again irrelevant to my point. You really go hard with the irrelevant stuff. > Good try, but no dice. I made my point. Not my fault you did not notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 And the profession witch hunts begin anew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. > > 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. > 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast. > F2 cleanses 3 condis and has a .5s delay. Any condi build is easily going to overwhelm that. If you are playing power trapper, you have bow which is a rather UP weapon. Most tank necros can 1v1 you indefinitely and you aren't putting up great damage numbers unless people stand in your traps without inv/block. You have a pretty good hit and run build, but no skilled player is complaining about our damage. If you are playing condi, you can't kite and do damage. Almost all of your burst comes from Zealot's Flame and its lesser version. Zealots fire is an unguided slow projectile. So no, you can't kite and expect to be viable. Any class with a range weapon doesn't care about you. Only ele and rev aren't running a ranged set and many revs are bringing shiro and have superspeed access too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > > > > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > > > > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. > > > > 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. > > 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast. > > > > F2 cleanses 3 condis and has a .5s delay. Any condi build is easily going to overwhelm that. > > If you are playing power trapper, you have bow which is a rather UP weapon. Most tank necros can 1v1 you indefinitely and you aren't putting up great damage numbers unless people stand in your traps without inv/block. You have a pretty good hit and run build, but no skilled player is complaining about our damage. If you are playing condi, you can't kite and do damage. Almost all of your burst comes from Zealot's Flame and its lesser version. Zealots fire is an unguided slow projectile. So no, you can't kite and expect to be viable. Any class with a range weapon doesn't care about you. Only ele and rev aren't running a ranged set and many revs are bringing shiro and have superspeed access too. 1) You simply said there was NOOOOO condi cleanse, and I was responding to that. 2) I really have nothing to respond to your second point. You dont even kitten understand what build I was referring to. And kittens like you overwhelm the forum and therefore might bias the balances patches. And maybe this is why the meta becomes more and more unfun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Only thing keeping DH viable in any sense, and even then its still not in contention for top teir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not called viable, its called kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an argument or justification. If you are just mad, we can just ignore this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not mad, just think its bad design. > > > > > > > > > > > > Explain. Traps are nearly straight useless in pvp without the rune. The rune creates a whole build in a class that has been underperforming since the first set of nerfs it got after release. It also gives condi, which doesn't work with any traps (unless you are going condi, in which case you are glass cannon with almost no defensive traits and are using power traps for condi damage). > > > > > > > > > > using a trap gives 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, with no CD. DH runs 4 traps. Some condi ranger runs about 1-2 traps but one trap has 10 second CD. If you dont think this is brainless, then I have nothing to say. > > > > > > > > 4 traps= 1 stun break and nearly no condi cleanse. So you are running a glass cannon build that keeps breaking its own stealth. You have superspeed, but no swiftness so you have to rely on using traps for map mobility. > > > > > > > > Nah, the problem isn't trapper. > > > > > > 1) F2 = Condi cleanse. > > > 2) Yes, it is a bit cannot build. But given its high super speed uptime and stealth, it can kite around. But yea, of course, if all you know is stay on node, then everything dies pretty fast. > > > > > > > F2 cleanses 3 condis and has a .5s delay. Any condi build is easily going to overwhelm that. > > > > If you are playing power trapper, you have bow which is a rather UP weapon. Most tank necros can 1v1 you indefinitely and you aren't putting up great damage numbers unless people stand in your traps without inv/block. You have a pretty good hit and run build, but no skilled player is complaining about our damage. If you are playing condi, you can't kite and do damage. Almost all of your burst comes from Zealot's Flame and its lesser version. Zealots fire is an unguided slow projectile. So no, you can't kite and expect to be viable. Any class with a range weapon doesn't care about you. Only ele and rev aren't running a ranged set and many revs are bringing shiro and have superspeed access too. > > 1) You simply said there was NOOOOO condi cleanse, and I was responding to that. > > 2) I really have nothing to respond to your second point. You dont even kitten understand what build I was referring to. And kittens like you overwhelm the forum and therefore might bias the balances patches. And maybe this is why the meta becomes more and more unfun to play. Please re-read the quote you are referencing. I never said there was 'NOOOOOO' condi cleanse. You weren't referencing any build. You were making conjectures about a nebulous build you never specify. The problem here comes from your imprecise assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > > This you? > > > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > > > You did this before, it's becoming boring. > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, > Irrelevant to my point. > >I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. > This is the part worth responding to. You are also pushing for changes which are more then simple nerfs. I did the same. Trapper rune needs to be removed, if builds using traps completely fall out of the meta, dragonhunter can see some buffs as compensation. If a-net takes only the first half of this suggestion and runs with it, thats not my fault. I'm not the adult in a room full of children who need to be controlled by me. > >...snip... > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, > Do I know that? It seems like you know whats in my head better than I do... > > then you're advocating for its removal. > One of the ways you can end world hunger is by slaughtering the poor. Think about that next time a politician is talking about eradicating poverty! > > I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > Again irrelevant to my point. You really go hard with the irrelevant stuff. > > > Good try, but no dice. > I made my point. Not my fault you did not notice. > Nice job misrepresenting what i said. Removal of the root system isn't a nerf, especially if the skills applying it become simple AoE. This could mean dodging the initial root application could then apply it again should you dodge the wrong direction. Yes, you did and it's obvious it's just to remove a build you don't like dealing with. You brought up class identity and I elaborated on that point, not irrelevant beyond what you bring into the fold. This childish mentality of nefing all frustration and obstacles that aren't mechanically unsound or have glaring inconsistencies is what's driving PvP into the ground. Bring tools to counter the build or die to it over and over, your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > > > This you? > > > > > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > > > > > > You did this before, it's becoming boring. > > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, > > Irrelevant to my point. > > >I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. > > This is the part worth responding to. You are also pushing for changes which are more then simple nerfs. I did the same. Trapper rune needs to be removed, if builds using traps completely fall out of the meta, dragonhunter can see some buffs as compensation. If a-net takes only the first half of this suggestion and runs with it, thats not my fault. I'm not the adult in a room full of children who need to be controlled by me. > > >...snip... > > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, > > Do I know that? It seems like you know whats in my head better than I do... > > > then you're advocating for its removal. > > One of the ways you can end world hunger is by slaughtering the poor. Think about that next time a politician is talking about eradicating poverty! > > > I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > > Again irrelevant to my point. You really go hard with the irrelevant stuff. > > > > > Good try, but no dice. > > I made my point. Not my fault you did not notice. > > > > Nice job misrepresenting what i said. Removal of the root system isn't a nerf, especially if the skills applying it become simple AoE. This could mean dodging the initial root application could then apply it again should you dodge the wrong direction. > > Yes, you did and it's obvious it's just to remove a build you don't like dealing with. You brought up class identity and I elaborated on that point, not irrelevant beyond what you bring into the fold. This childish mentality of nefing all frustration and obstacles that aren't mechanically unsound or have glaring inconsistencies is what's driving PvP into the ground. Bring tools to counter the build or die to it over and over, your choice. you complained it isnt affected by condis, making it so would be a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 lmao you guys defending this rune would legit defend vampirism rune in 2015, such losers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > > > > > > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > > > > This you? > > > > > > > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. > > > > > > > You did this before, it's becoming boring. > > > At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, > > Irrelevant to my point. > > >I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. > > This is the part worth responding to. You are also pushing for changes which are more then simple nerfs. I did the same. Trapper rune needs to be removed, if builds using traps completely fall out of the meta, dragonhunter can see some buffs as compensation. If a-net takes only the first half of this suggestion and runs with it, thats not my fault. I'm not the adult in a room full of children who need to be controlled by me. > > >...snip... > > > If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, > > Do I know that? It seems like you know whats in my head better than I do... > > > then you're advocating for its removal. > > One of the ways you can end world hunger is by slaughtering the poor. Think about that next time a politician is talking about eradicating poverty! > > > I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. > > Again irrelevant to my point. You really go hard with the irrelevant stuff. > > > > > Good try, but no dice. > > I made my point. Not my fault you did not notice. > > > > Nice job misrepresenting what i said. Removal of the root system isn't a nerf, especially if the skills applying it become simple AoE. I said "you're pushing for changes which are more than simple nerfs". Removal of the root system means a rework, that totally fits the category of "more than a simple nerf". Do you know what the word misrepresentation means? >This could mean dodging the initial root application could then apply it again should you dodge the wrong direction. > > Yes, you did and it's obvious it's just to remove a build you don't like dealing with. Thats just an assumption on your part. My main reason is class identity. The smaller reasons do not matter, especially those which can be subjective, that's not a reasonable way of balancing. If I really factored in like and dislike, I'd push for all PoF specs to be deleted/reworked from the ground up. I hate literally all of them. >You brought up class identity and I elaborated on that point, Oh that's what you think that was? A thread where we talk about why dragonhunter should or shouldn't have access to stealth and superspeed, you talk about how the root system isn't rangers class mechanic, and that somehow is elaborating on the point? You're weird. I bought that comment up to show you're doing the same thing you're calling me out for(saying X is bad it needs to go), but I guess you really wanted to talk about ranger. >not irrelevant beyond what you bring into the fold. This childish mentality of nefing all frustration and obstacles that aren't mechanically unsound or have glaring inconsistencies is what's driving PvP into the ground. Another barrage of unfounded assumptions aside, I really want this power you think I have! But funny thing is, everything they did since 2018 I disagree with. This last patch was a 50/50, but generally everything since season 10 is just... no. If my "childish mentality" is really what is driving PvP downwards, I'd appreciate if a-net actually started listenting to my "little tantrums" and do what I tell them, because if this game is going down, it better go down the way I want it to. >Bring tools to counter the build or die to it over and over, your choice. I mean, whatever floats your boat. If you think dying repeatedly is a choice, I'm not going to tell you how to play this game. Be free, have fun, feed mid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Can't we just agree that the issue is the 6th bonus and it need to be changed to something less... omnipotent. I mean, 3 seconds of stealth and superspeed, it's a bit to much. It's was already to much at release of the runes to the point that ranger's traps ended up nerfed, then thief ended up having their trap nerfed for the same reason (to the point that they no longer have traps anymore)... What will happen next? DH having their traps changed into _preparations_? (maybe not a bad move but is it necessary to come down to that when changing this 6th bonus would solve most issue)? From my point of view, just change it to increase power by 100 (200 in PvE) for 10s (not cumulative) whenever you lay a trap and we are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > From my point of view, just change it to increase power by 100 (200 in PvE) for 10s (not cumulative) whenever you lay a trap and we are good. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Dragonhunter_(PvP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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