Lesser Muddy Terrain isn't lesser anything

[Poelala.2830]

Lesser Muddy Terrain-

Cripple per pulse (3s) -50% movement speed

Slow per pulse (1s) - Skills and actions are slower.

Immobilize at creation (3s) Unable to move/dodge.

Fury(with 46% boon duration) 8.75s(with survival trait)

Conditions removed: 2

Duration- 10 seconds (It's actually closer to 18 seconds... I tested it and the uptime of this skill is 90% when casting heal)

Interval: 1 second

(not mentioned) Max # of targets: 5.

 

Muddy Terrain:

Cripple per pulse (3s) -50% movement speed

Slow per pulse (1s) - Skills and actions are slower.

Immobilize at creation (3s) Unable to move/dodge.

Fury(with 46% boon duration) 8.75s (with survival trait)

Conditions removed: 2

Duration- 10 seconds (ACTUALLY 10 SECONDS!)

Interval: 1 second

Max # of targets: 5.

Range: 900

 

Again, how is this a quantitative weakening of the original skill? It's legit stronger. When compared to quickening zephyr and lesser quickening zephyr, the durations of the quickness AND the superspeed are halved. That is the opposite for muddy terrain when looking at their durations.

[Sandzibar.5134]

No range component / PBAoe makes it lesser.

 

[OGDeadHead.8326]

Not sure why you feel the need to mention that full list of what the skill (trait) does, especially mentioning Fury and number of conditions removed (if traited!) other than to try to insinuate that the trait/skill is OP?

 

The ONLY thing that should be changed if this is how it works is the duration, down from 10 seconds to 5 - that's it, and that's all you should've mentioned.

[Substance E.4852]

What is it with ranger players and asking for self nerfs?

[Poelala.2830]

...because it isn't fair to players of other classes fighting this one...

[Poelala.2830]

No, the fact of the matter is that the lesser version (without including the 18 second duration) is identical to the regular version when in a different example like with lesser quickening zephyr the durations are halved. I don't see why there is a lack of understanding here...

[Sandzibar.5134]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> What is it with ranger players and asking for self nerfs?

 

his posts on the old forums would indicate he is an extremely salty Ele player

 

[Substance E.4852]

> @Sandzibar.5134 said:

> > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > What is it with ranger players and asking for self nerfs?

>

> his posts on the old forums would indicate he is an extremely salty Ele player

>

 

That would explain the grossly distorted view of class balance.

[Poelala.2830]

I don't see any viable counterarguments to this fact. The "Lesser'' version is more powerful than the original.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> No, the fact of the matter is that the lesser version (without including the 18 second duration) is identical to the regular version when in a different example like with lesser quickening zephyr the durations are halved. I don't see why there is a lack of understanding here...

 

It's not identical, you can't ground target it.

[Substance E.4852]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> I don't see any viable counterarguments to this fact. The "Lesser'' version is more powerful than the original.

 

Define viable.

 

> @Sandzibar.5134 said:

> No range component / PBAoe makes it lesser.

>

 

 

[Seteruss.4058]

> @Sandzibar.5134 said:

> > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > What is it with ranger players and asking for self nerfs?

>

> his posts on the old forums would indicate he is an extremely salty Ele player

>

 

+1 on that...

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

What is imbalance about this skill? One condi cleanse and you move easily out of it like the ranger roots -.-

Instead original Muddy Terrain needs a buff

[Crescendo Forte.4821]

It sounds like lesser terrain has a bug when used with a healing skill? Is that what you're saying? (Since it says 10s, but it's acting as 18s? (which I have not seen at ALL). Also, there does seem to be a discrepancy where Muddy terrain has a cripple of 2s and Lesser has 3s. Oh no. It's probably just a tool-tip typo.

 

The fact of the matter is that despite appearances, Lesser Terrain has its weaknesses:

 

* Lesser muddy terrain has an ICD of 25-20s.

* It also only activates in the immediate area surrounding the player, while the normal version is a ranged ground target with 900 range.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

 

> @"Aleksander Suburb.4287" said:

> One condi cleanse and you move easily out of it like the ranger roots -.-

> Instead original Muddy Terrain needs a buff

 

Ranger roots aren't cleansed with a condi clear.

 

The immob of Mud can be cleared, but the Mud Pulses.

 

 

18 seconds? Ok, the tooltip needs to be fixed.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> No, the fact of the matter is that the lesser version (without including the 18 second duration) is identical to the regular version when in a different example like with lesser quickening zephyr the durations are halved. I don't see why there is a lack of understanding here...

 

Salty Ele in the Ranger forums doesn't understand.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

> @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

>

> > @"Aleksander Suburb.4287" said:

> > One condi cleanse and you move easily out of it like the ranger roots -.-

> > Instead original Muddy Terrain needs a buff

>

> Ranger roots aren't cleansed with a condi clear.

>

> The immob of Mud can be cleared, but the Mud Pulses.

>

>

> 18 seconds? Ok, the tooltip needs to be fixed.

> Thanks for pointing that out.

 

But you can easily clean cripple, immo, and slowness and move out of the mud. Easy to counter and bring nothing more to the table. For example instead slowness giving some boons to allies instead.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @"Aleksander Suburb.4287" said:

> > @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

> >

> > > @"Aleksander Suburb.4287" said:

> > > One condi cleanse and you move easily out of it like the ranger roots -.-

> > > Instead original Muddy Terrain needs a buff

> >

> > Ranger roots aren't cleansed with a condi clear.

> >

> > The immob of Mud can be cleared, but the Mud Pulses.

> >

> >

> > 18 seconds? Ok, the tooltip needs to be fixed.

> > Thanks for pointing that out.

>

> But you can easily clean cripple, immo, and slowness and move out of the mud. Easy to counter and bring nothing more to the table. For example instead slowness giving some boons to allies instead.

 

You don't even need to cleanse them, the duration is so low. The point, though, it that you need to move out of the area of effect. Which makes it a perfect skill for PvP. Running both MT and StF will allow you to put cripple and slow on the point permanently and it will be impossible to cleanse, that is massively powerful.

[shadowpass.4236]

Poe is blocked by legit 95% of the people in dueling servers. His game must be almost completely silent most of the time because no one can see what he says. The skill is not OP.

[Hya.5168]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> No, the fact of the matter is that the lesser version (without including the 18 second duration) is identical to the regular version when in a different example like with lesser quickening zephyr the durations are halved. I don't see why there is a lack of understanding here...

 

You are right, they are almost identical. Thus I propose to make Muddy Terrain stronger to better differentiate those two skills. ;)

[anduriell.6280]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> Again, how is this a quantitative weakening of the original skill? It's legit stronger. When compared to quickening zephyr and lesser quickening zephyr, the durations of the quickness AND the superspeed are halved. That is the opposite for muddy terrain when looking at their durations.

 

The CD is 20 seconds the same as Muddy terrain traited. I don't get which kind of logic you are using to call out for nerfs.

 

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @Poelala.2830 said:

> Lesser Muddy Terrain-

> Duration- 10 seconds (It's actually closer to 18 seconds... I tested it and the uptime of this skill is 90% when casting heal)

> Again, how is this a quantitative weakening of the original skill? It's legit stronger. When compared to quickening zephyr and lesser quickening zephyr, the durations of the quickness AND the superspeed are halved. That is the opposite for muddy terrain when looking at their durations.

 

Objectively, there is a tooltip-ability mismatch. We can go into the mists and test it on golems - the Slow and Cripple pulses carry on for 18 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. Muddy Terrain used to be 20 seconds, way back when (but it wasn't as potent).

 

The synergy with Wilderness Knowledge and immobilize, in my opinion, are the more useful parts of this trait, though if 18 seconds is the intention it's certainly not a bad thing.

 

Of course I'm opposed to taking stuff away from the class I'm playing mainly right now, but in the end it's up to ANet to decide if it's made that way or not (in any MMO where PvP is a side dish, it's seldom we get what we want even if they know the public opinion), and nerf posts targeting all aspects of the game happen sooner or later anyway.

[Poelala.2830]

I didn't know ranger mains lacked so much objectivity... it was my fault for even posting this here... lol.

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

Well, to be honest, you're requesting that players make changes to a skill due to subjective differences in how you view the wording surrounding traits, when we, as players, don't have the power to make these changes to begin with. So what is your purpose here, other then to complain about losing to a ranger with lesser muddy terrain?