Upcoming Balance Update

[timetopat.7921]

I agree that quarterly updates are just too slow. I know some might claim updates to balance that are frequent and drastic will give players some whiplash but there has to be some middle ground. Having possibly 2 pvp seasons screwy because of lack of action to balance isn’t fun for anyone.

[mtpelion.4562]

I really wish that ArenaNet had never tried to go for the esports thing. Just give us basic PvP deathmatches where there are no stats and a small list of premade specs for each profession. I'd find that a LOT more enjoyable. Plus all the "pro PvPers" would never have brought their "no-fun" approach to gaming here in the first place.

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

> @mtpelion.4562 said:

> I really wish that ArenaNet had never tried to go for the esports thing. Just give us basic PvP deathmatches where there are no stats and a small list of premade specs for each profession. I'd find that a LOT more enjoyable. Plus all the "pro PvPers" would never have brought their "no-fun" approach to gaming here in the first place.

 

Casual elitism is the most hilarious thing I ever see in games. How dare they want to take the game seriously and work to improve their skill and ranking. I very much dislike mmo PvP and how literally only sPvP players are complaining about the patch timing, but this post is just outright terrible.

[troops.8276]

> @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

> Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

 

Maybe it's more the straw that broke the camels back. Balance changes the playstyle regardless of if one changes class or not. If the meta is not fun then all is vain. And it is after all part of a product that people paid for. "World class pvp" is how Anet describes it on the website.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > > @Chaotic.9742 said:

> > > Glad there’s Destiny to play in the meantime...

> >

> > I'm glad there is Smite, Eve Online, and ESO to play in the meantime. Made some amazing progress on my ESO account.

>

> Warframe, Dota 2, B&S, SWTOR, LOL, Paragon-Epic Games......

>

> FFXIV is one of the main game many of us former gw2 players are playing: always welcome to join :)

> Friendly and healthy community and environment: you will not be disappointed.

>

> alas,

>

> **Competitive games the way to go** ^*^

>

 

What's elder scrolls like from your opinion?

 

This is the only mmo I ever played, 5 years now and I think I'm finally hitting my limit not just with the game but the company, the community and even these forums.

 

I need an alternative but I do not like change.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Imho balance is okay, but people who constantly complain are generally just not good at the class they play. It's the same with high tier fight games like Street Fighter where the little edge you get through a small advantage doesn't make a bad player better. A horrible Ryu fighter is still worse than a pro Dan player - by a large margin.

[Lain.5179]

Gg anet. And here I thought I would have some time to experiment with the new amulets and the new balance. Nope, this whole off season period just became a complete waste of time.

Thanks. Stellar work as always. You made an amazing game with amazing combat and now you don't care anymore or something. Sad. This could be a big pvp game.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

I hope you guys also fix the dismount bugs for several classes like daredevils, and... I want to say firebrand, but I don't remember. But I know there are several classes that 'lose' something when they dismount.

[Blaeys.3102]

I don't have high hopes based on past watered-down balance patches, but what we really need to see is a patch focused on diversifying the meta in raids and evening things out in PVP (two very separate things that, imo, would require separate balances based on the game mode).

 

Specifically in raids, they need to do something to tone down reliance on having alacrity, quickness and 25 might stacks 100% of the time. Nerf the abilities that allow groups to accomplish this - maybe even put in debuff mechanics similar to revealed to make it impossible to achieve - and make up for it in other ways (increased damage for the lesser used professions).

 

In PVP and WvW, there needs to be a better way to recognize enemy abilities (enemy spellbreaker bubbles should be a different color from allied ones for instance) and ways to counter niche abilities that have run rampant in the mode (spellbreaker bubble being one example).

 

Balance has never been GW2's strong point, but the current game really drives a need for it in ways that the game has never seen. They need to up their game when it comes to balance.

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"Cuon Alpinus.7645" said:

> > @mtpelion.4562 said:

> > I really wish that ArenaNet had never tried to go for the esports thing. Just give us basic PvP deathmatches where there are no stats and a small list of premade specs for each profession. I'd find that a LOT more enjoyable. Plus all the "pro PvPers" would never have brought their "no-fun" approach to gaming here in the first place.

>

> Casual elitism is the most hilarious thing I ever see in games. How dare they want to take the game seriously and work to improve their skill and ranking. I very much dislike mmo PvP and how literally only sPvP players are complaining about the patch timing, but this post is just outright terrible.

 

A game designed and marketed for casuals had a half-built esports mode tacked on and then promptly neglected. This isn't "elitism", this is a historically-proven lament. Pro-gamers play for money, not fun. I don't begrudge them that and encourage them to continue to grow their sport, however, why ArenaNet decided to try and blend casual gaming with esports continues to boggle the mind. They should just admit their mistake and stick a fork in PvP (at least as it is currently designed).

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

> @Blaeys.3102 said:

> Specifically in raids, they need to do something to tone down reliance on having alacrity, quickness and 25 might stacks 100% of the time. Nerf the abilities that allow groups to accomplish this - maybe even put in debuff mechanics similar to revealed to make it impossible to achieve - and make up for it in other ways (increased damage for the lesser used professions).

>

 

No, no, no. Nerfs solve absolutely nothing without buffs in other areas to offset them. Merely reducing the effectiveness of boons and class-specific buffs affects everyone across the board equally in the worst of ways. The meta would not go away; it would just become worse and make raids needlessly more time-consuming while still being the best tactic available. The real reason raid meta is stagnant is a heavy focus on constant passive buffs in the way of druid guardians and PS warriors combined with the archaic limit of these buffs only affecting 5 players at a time. What needs to happen is having abilities buffed to effect 10 people at a time in PvE while slightly reducing the buffs the braindead passives give. This way you wouldn't need to mirror the support slots, opening up 3 more positions for DPS or hybrid support builds to fill gaps.

 

Just buffing the lower tier DPS builds in no way helps solve a straight-nerf problem, because boons affect EVERYONE. It's not like they'd be put in 40k territory, they'd just be brought up to par with the 32-36k crowd, which therein would lead to no net increase.

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

Well another week with zero reason to play GW2....

[vicious.5683]

> @Thereon.5219 said:

> Thank you for the update and your **hard work**! :)

 

hahahahahaah nice one.

 

If they worked hard, we would get something resembling balance in this game.

 

[Klypto.1703]

They gonna replace the charr ghosts with ascalonian ones so they live longer. Or either have the charr ones drive in charr cars around you so you have some laughs but still not be able to use renegade lol.

 

[Joxer.6024]

 

> @"Cuon Alpinus.7645" said:

>

> What needs to happen is having abilities buffed to effect 10 people at a time in PvE while slightly reducing the buffs the braindead passives give. This way you wouldn't need to mirror the support slots, opening up 3 more positions for DPS or hybrid support builds to fill gaps.

 

That right there! Just a simple adjustment to the abilities as mentioned and its a win for all, and like said 3 more spots! how is that not a good thing and it doesn't really offset or unbalance anything, just makes them a tad better. If only ANET could do that I reckon simple programming same as they did with banners and people happy, hopefully. :#

[mes.4607]

Balancing in this game is atrocious. The balance team needs an update!

[Brutaly.6257]

Will you fix underpowered weapons in this patch as well and not just utility skills/traits?

[Nemmar.8491]

Well, i want to say thank you to Gaile and the devs as well.

I honestly had no idea when the patch was coming. So, for me this was a notice that that is next week, wich was more than i knew before. ^^

 

I actually returned to the game a few months ago after being a huge fan of the original GW and having a disappointing impression with GW2 at the start. But, seeing Gaile again sure brings back some fun Q&A and conga memories in old LA. :)

[Rap Tiger.1257]

I expect Arenanet to worry about delivering buff to Soulbeast and Renegade which are the classes I least see in PvP, also need to increase to 15s fullcounter f2 Spellbreaker cooldown, do good damage, apply stun, transfer conditions while Soulbeast needs to wait 10s to switch from pet and absorbs the same? Even more do not understand why Arenanet does not let us take the total attributes as it is in beastmastery or that it affects the pet in some way like in trait.

 

Our second line of trait is useless if we do not use protection, poison or quickness ..... seriously I hope that Arenanet next week do at least something of value, had a lot of time to balance, this game needs to take balance seriously. How many other classes do I see that are balanced.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Brutaly.6257 said:

> Will you fix underpowered weapons in this patch as well and not just utility skills/traits?

 

I suspect this patch will be about the pof elite specs alone. The rest of the game can be "balanced" in ~2028

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @troops.8276 said:

> > > @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

> > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > Wait. The balance would be just for PvP? Because I have 0 cares on the competitive part of this game.

> > >

> > > Same. I imagine that's where a lot of this rage is coming from. Really wish it would stay in the PvP section because this part of the forums has enough of its own bitterness to contend with. :x

> >

> > I know it's weird right?

> > What was all ways going to be an obviously unpopular announcement with the pvp community,

> > Delivered in a very unapologetic way,

> > By a highly experienced mod,

> > In the main forum.

> >

> > I cynical person might start reading things into that....good thing there's a strong community spirit here that goes well beyond the borders of pve v pvp.

>

> I mainly asked as the only ones I'm hearing complain are about PvP and season this and season that.

> Which is why I'm curious.

>

> Sorry I don't know how Arenanet does these whole balance patches or what they do them around, but that's why I'm curious if it's a pvp thing or an overall thing.

 

Because prior to the most recent announcement, ANet generally timed their balance patches to land in the off-seasons of PvP, so competitive players had time to try out new things (or revamp old specs) before entering the season. Now that the balance patch is landing right as the season starts, they're effectively causing chaos in the PvP season. We won't even be able to seriously point out issues with the next balance patch (because there will always be issues) until halfway through to the next patch.

 

"Balance" as a term doesn't make too much sense outside of the competitive arena as well. In PvE, it's not a big deal to buff underperforming things or nerf overperforming things, as you're just fighting a computer without a sense of fairness. That dynamic changes when you introduce competitive gameplay, however.

[Einlanzer.1627]

The simple truth is that the class/balance team at Anet is just not very good, and never has been - look at the obviously half-finished state of the revenant more than two years after it was released. I don't know if it's the individuals on the team or more systemic problems related to the structure and management of the team, but it needs to change. Anet has over 300 employees - this shouldn't be this much of a problem. It's been needing to change for at least 3 years, and we're now hitting critical mass for players getting rightfully pissed about getting a bi-weekly-in-quality-but-once-every-3-months balance patch that is largely untested and never re-tuned after rollout that rarely even attempts to address big picture balance problems. I would complain about getting them right at the start of PvP season, but it's a moot point since they've (laughably) never done any real post-balance balancing in the past, so what does the timing matter?

 

I mean, are we even going to get any big picture balance stuff addressed? I somehow doubt it:

Damage is overtuned in general

Conditions are even more overtuned, making cleanse/immunity dominate the game and making toughness underpowered as a damage mitigation stat

Health hasn't kept up with offensive power creep (either in PvE or PvP), making combat in general too dodge-or-die and unstrategic

Boons/conditions have over-crept into skills and traits and too many boons get passed around by too many builds

Only one well-functioning healing/support spec out of the 27 available specializations in the game

 

Many specific skills and traits are bugged or very badly tuned, in some cases haven't seen changes since launch

 

Balance is iterative, and you need to iterate faster with clearer goals/communication and better response to feedback. End of discussion.

[RodOfDeath.5247]

> @shippage.1983 said:

> We really need more frequent, smaller patches. The off-season should be the dev's chance to test balance changes, not right as the season starts! Do they listen to player feedback?

 

No

[Erulogos.2591]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> Wait. The balance would be just for PvP? Because I have 0 cares on the competitive part of this game.

 

Well, balance seems to be an issue to players in the following order: sPvP, WvW, Raids, high end Fractals, general PvE.

(Yes, this is a fairly broad generalization, but it holds fairly well.)

It makes sense, balance directly impacts the fun of the game mode for sPvP (seeing class X or Y on another team and knowing you're going to get ROFLstomped no matter what is no fun,) is similar if diluted a little in the zerg ball of WvW, and acts as a barrier of entry to high end PvE (get meta or get lost.)

 

Personally, as long as they don't nerf my vampire spec (Reaper with tons of bleeds, 10% condi back as heals) for general PvE exploration I'll live. Though I hope my holosmith gets a little love in PvE (I like the damage, not so thrilled with the self harm and/or squishiness even in soldier gear.) But I prize sustain over 'OMG max deeps!' since I'm on my own or world bossing mostly.

 

> @Haishao.6851 said:

> Will you be giving everyone gold so they can switch rune and armor stats every weeks as well?

>

 

A big part of why I support methodical, incremental, light-touch balancing. I've put time, gold, and sometimes money into some builds (money for cosmetics, not power, but still.) I don't want that eradicated on a whim. As it is, my gold and transmute charge supplies have been decimated since I've revisted several alts and had to respec them a bit (old zerker meta ele doesn't work so well any more, same with old zerker meta warrior.) This is a bit of why I haven't touched the new elite specs much, as they are most likely to get wrekt by balance patches over the next 3 to 6 months.

 

> @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> Just a quick question. Would it be possible to implement sort of a rotational balancing schedule? Say every week a small balance patch is added for a single class. So we

> have classes 1-9; week 1, class 1 gets some minor buffs/nerfs to numbers (duration, stacks, cd) depending on what's under/overperforming. Week 2 class 2, week 3 class

> 3, and so on. So every 9 weeks you end up with all the classes having been adjusted and you get to see how the player base has reacted to the changes, and then week 11

> you implement mechanics changes (traits, weapon skills) to all the classes if a trait proved impossible to balance through number changes. Then 2 weeks after that, at

>week 13 (effectively week 1), it starts all over again. You keep a schedule of all the classes every 3 months and can address problems that pop up faster. If something pops

> up that's game breaking on one class you can swap balancing that specific one for what was scheduled and push everything else back a week.

 

The big problem I see here is that many balance changes will only be balanced in context with other changes. If you nerf the overperforming damage of class A without doing so to classes B through E, or buffing F through I, it doesn't feel balanced to anyone, you just have a class that was on top of the world feeling slighted and attacked.

 

If I were setting a balance plan, it would be to have a big balance patch every 3 months, followed a month later by a tweak patch to adjust things that looked better on paper than they do in reality (I say a month because it takes time for the playerbase to adjust to changes, sometimes things seem OP or weak they really just need some playstyle adjustments to deal with, so you want to give time for things to settle to see what really is OP etc.)

[OriOri.8724]

This is disappointing. I can't believe that Anet is willing to wait so long between balance patches, especially considering the patches, when we do get them, are tiny except for a once a year patch that is decent sized (and that's it, its just decent. We haven't received a major balance patch in years). This is not acceptable ANet, not at all.