Ventari Revenant

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Straight up bunkers, where your only purpose is to survive, are bad for the game. The balanced bunker's role is always to support its teammates. They aren't effective on their own. Bunker Guard followed this. Decap Engi did not. Cele Ele sort of did. Bunker Mesmer did not. Auramancer does. You notice a pattern here?

[tehroi.4619]

**reminder ventari revs are just as cancerous as turret engis**

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

> @OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:

> Straight up bunkers, where your only purpose is to survive, are bad for the game. The balanced bunker's role is always to support its teammates. They aren't effective on their own. Bunker Guard followed this. Decap Engi did not. Cele Ele sort of did. Bunker Mesmer did not. Auramancer does. You notice a pattern here?

 

ofcourse, i understand that, never claimed that pure bunkers with nothing else are good for the game. point is that if u are tanky+support and can just lol push people of your point its too much. tree characterstics i highlighted that make it annoying to fight with. reason i agree with changing to knockback to stun is because for the rest i see nothing wrong with it.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

There are two ways for Ventari Rev to be viable. The current iteration relies on tankiness and cheesy CC to win at Conquest. If they nerf the CC, the build won't be used just for its tankiness. There are other builds to fill that role. It would need to provide competitive support to Auramancer or Bunker Guard. At the moment, it's possible it does, but nobody plays it well enough to do that. They would need to buff the support capabilities of the class after they nerf the CC to make it see use. Then it would once again not fill the straight bunker role. It would be a support.

[Razor.9872]

Necros eat Vent revs alive. Especially when they consistently corrupt their stability.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Necros don't kill them 1v1, and their slow rotations and vulnerability in roads make them plussing the rev frequently not an option.

[Crinn.7864]

yeah idk how people are expecting necros to counter vent rev, when vent rev rotates faster than necros.

 

Besides sending a necro after a vent rev makes the necro a easy +1 kill for the enemy roamers.

 

Bunkers should never have the ability to force a decap/cap.

[Exciton.8942]

> @OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:

> Straight up bunkers, where your only purpose is to survive, are bad for the game. The balanced bunker's role is always to support its teammates. They aren't effective on their own. Bunker Guard followed this. Decap Engi did not. Cele Ele sort of did. Bunker Mesmer did not. Auramancer does. You notice a pattern here?

 

That is not totally true.

 

Bunker mesmer is bad not because it can survive on its own(both condition rev and necro could 1v1 kill them). It is because the support is simply too strong. Quickness rezz/stomp + consistent stability/invul for the whole team completely kills the fun in teamfight.

 

Scrapper now is one of the strongest 1v1er but also support very well. So which category do you put it in.

 

If all a bunker can do is survive, it will not even be effective in the game. Ventari rev is effective because of the super efficient decap combined with its ability to survive. Being able to support and survive alone is fine but to win every practically every 1v1 by a simple spammable knockback is not.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Bunker Mesmer provides less support than Auramancer or Guardian and did not provide AoE Stability. Are you talking about a current build or the one in PLS1 that I'm talking about? It was literally just the tankiest thing the game has ever seen and had portal to top it all off. Team fights weren't just not fun. The bunkers never died, so matches would either time out because nobody could cap anything or the first team to cap nodes would win the game.

 

Scrapper isn't used as a main support. It sacrifices some of the support for the mobility and damage to be useful as a home node holder. Druid is the same. Also, there is a point at which a pure bunker is viable. Bunker Mesmer met that criteria. Bunker Warrior has come close a couple times pre-HoT. Ventari Rev isn't as tanky as either of those, but it has the added capability of decapping. However, pure tank + CC isn't good balance. I said that, and you clearly agree.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the constant knockback is too much, everything else is fine. please don't nerf the heals.

[Exciton.8942]

> @OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:

> Bunker Mesmer provides less support than Auramancer or Guardian and did not provide AoE Stability. Are you talking about a current build or the one in PLS1 that I'm talking about? It was literally just the tankiest thing the game has ever seen and had portal to top it all off. Team fights weren't just not fun. The bunkers never died, so matches would either time out because nobody could cap anything or the first team to cap nodes would win the game.

>

> Scrapper isn't used as a main support. It sacrifices some of the support for the mobility and damage to be useful as a home node holder. Druid is the same. Also, there is a point at which a pure bunker is viable. Bunker Mesmer met that criteria. Bunker Warrior has come close a couple times pre-HoT. Ventari Rev isn't as tanky as either of those, but it has the added capability of decapping. However, pure tank + CC isn't good balance. I said that, and you clearly agree.

 

I am more talking about S1 bunker mes who could share stability with phantasm summoning. Current bunker mes can't since they need idefender to survive.

 

I definitely agree with most of what you said. But things are usually not as clear cut you mentioned the previous post.

 

I was thinking about changing the ventari tablet explosion from a knockback to a normal stun. But that still qualifies your pure tank + CC archetype. But the CC would not be as abusable as now. They will need teammate to take advantage of that CC if it is stun.

 

[Euthymias.7984]

A 10~12s CD on energy expulsion (PvP) would be enough.

That said, I dont have too many issues dealing with it as the aformentioned counters still work.

If you're able to CC/Boonstrip/overwhelm with condis, you can knock them out of a fight or at least force them into Glint. If you cannot, its possible to out-rotate and let them waste time on a node while pushing a 4v5 elsewhere. Their lack of mobility and team support isnt hard to exploit.

[zHasgard.9827]

> @MagicToker.9478 said:

you can't simply pick these builds up, it's something you master, and once you do, you reap all of the fame and glory.

 

LOL is that a joke ? Orisci and rampert came with this build like 1 mounth and half ago and you talking about mastery? I played yesterday vs a duo condi thief ( i'm 1700) and the match was just ridiculous, get on any points and get insta killed, i play DH and not even with virtues traits + CoP i can handle double condi thief. You play with your team most of times, you guys know what to do,but ANET cant balance the game thinking about your team or ppl that knows how to counter everything. 90% of pvp ppl think those builds are ridiculous. Not even god can win a match in this game when only you know what you are doing

 

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Yes. He's joking.

[Saiyan.1704]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> > @Exciton.8942 said:

> > > @messiah.1908 said:

> >

> > > if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

> >

> > Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

> >

> > In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

> >

>

> you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

 

I don't understand your Vent Rev Biasness in all these bunk Rev threads...

 

You're wrong, players Do Not work as a team in SoloQ.

 

You're right, Vent Rev are easier to handle in a premade vs premade scenario.

 

Lastly, Vent Rev IS more difficult to handle compared to old Turret Engi, of which, WAS easy to out rotate (cause his turrets literally cant move..) yet Anet removed them.

 

These are the facts of Vent Rev. Anyone else has no other argument. If you do, you're running with a good Mes or Thief and are NOT the minority; nor are you at the mercy of Matchmaking...

[Vagrant.7206]

This is one of the most toxic builds I've ever played against. It's worse than the turret engi meta, because it requires virtually no skill or effort, and you have access to an incredible amount of CC's, blinds, and heals. Even coordinated teams cannot take it down in a reasonable amount of time -- leading to decaps and further place loss. Turret engi was vulnerable to a lot, and 2 people coordinating could take down a skilled turret engi. That's simply not possible with the ventari rev.

 

It also doesn't help that they have as much mobility as DH or Engi metas right now either. I had a ventari rev follow me around the map, preventing me from doing ANYTHING.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

As a mediocre PvPer and Warrior for life... I don't understand. You get kd' d by ventari rev? Move to another node.

 

Let them hold their measly pittance while you can the other 2.

 

Kill more of their friends while they are staunch solobunking their precious. I have literally seen ventrevs camp a node and refuse to abandon it while we slaughtered their team on the rest of the map effectively making it a 4v5.

 

Also. TIME.

Holy moly when will people realize that conquest is NOT team deathmatch. Nobody cares if you can 1v1.

 

Warriors, drop attacking ventari revs at melee on a node they hold.

 

Also, I don't know what you are doing wrong but I kill ventari revs 95% of the time. My secret?

 

I don't run healing Sig. Figure it out.

[kKagari.6804]

As a side note (pun incoming) its hilarious watching Ventari revs try to do their things on side nodes, with your back against the small fence.

 

Small fence > Ventari rev.

[messiah.1908]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > @Exciton.8942 said:

> > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > >

> > > > if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

> > >

> > > Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

> > >

> > > In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

> > >

> >

> > you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

>

> I don't understand your Vent Rev Biasness in all these bunk Rev threads...

>

> You're wrong, players Do Not work as a team in SoloQ.

>

> You're right, Vent Rev are easier to handle in a premade vs premade scenario.

>

> Lastly, Vent Rev IS more difficult to handle compared to old Turret Engi, of which, WAS easy to out rotate (cause his turrets literally cant move..) yet Anet removed them.

>

> These are the facts of Vent Rev. Anyone else has no other argument. If you do, you're running with a good Mes or Thief and are NOT the minority; nor are you at the mercy of Matchmaking...

 

i play mostly soloq. before the match starts i ask guard to play with me, thief to decap far. this way with guard we could hold 2v3 while i ress him or heal him and he did all the dmg. i didnt even used EE only when he was down. pvp is team effort. when i was targeted by enemy team the guard put his dmg on me to force them to back off. i dont know this guard but we had fun. dont forget that we get more dmg, more cc ad more condi burst compare to the era of turret engi. so you cant compare those two.

in team fight rev wont abuse EE as he needs nrg to support his allies. if rev does 1v1 his team has no support so the enemy team should win team fights.

you can also see comment of players said they can handle this build, counter it, or out rotate it. and you still refuse.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> As a mediocre PvPer and Warrior for life... I don't understand. You get kd' d by ventari rev? Move to another node.

>

> Let them hold their measly pittance while you can the other 2.

>

> Kill more of their friends while they are staunch solobunking their precious. I have literally seen ventrevs camp a node and refuse to abandon it while we slaughtered their team on the rest of the map effectively making it a 4v5.

>

> Also. TIME.

> Holy moly when will people realize that conquest is NOT team deathmatch. Nobody cares if you can 1v1.

>

> Warriors, drop attacking ventari revs at melee on a node they hold.

>

> Also, I don't know what you are doing wrong but I kill ventari revs 95% of the time. My secret?

>

> I don't run healing Sig. Figure it out.

 

To moving to another node...

 

You know that they can just follow you, right? I had a ventari rev follow me the whole match, preventing me from doing anything. Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, revenant can keep up with most people.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Vagrant.7206 said:

> This is one of the most toxic builds I've ever played against. It's worse than the turret engi meta, because it requires virtually no skill or effort, and you have access to an incredible amount of CC's, blinds, and heals. Even coordinated teams cannot take it down in a reasonable amount of time -- leading to decaps and further place loss. Turret engi was vulnerable to a lot, and 2 people coordinating could take down a skilled turret engi. That's simply not possible with the ventari rev.

>

> It also doesn't help that they have as much mobility as DH or Engi metas right now either. I had a ventari rev follow me around the map, preventing me from doing ANYTHING.

 

Run war. Kill ventrevs in 19 seconds.

 

Also for the love of fudge PLEASE STOP CALLING ANYTHING THAT ANGERS *YOU* PERSONALLY "TOXIC".

 

You have made it into a nonsense worthless word.

 

Ventari rev is not "toxic".

It is a cheesy build that is easy to use and good for noobs to bait noobs.

 

YOU are toxic.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Vagrant.7206 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > As a mediocre PvPer and Warrior for life... I don't understand. You get kd' d by ventari rev? Move to another node.

> >

> > Let them hold their measly pittance while you can the other 2.

> >

> > Kill more of their friends while they are staunch solobunking their precious. I have literally seen ventrevs camp a node and refuse to abandon it while we slaughtered their team on the rest of the map effectively making it a 4v5.

> >

> > Also. TIME.

> > Holy moly when will people realize that conquest is NOT team deathmatch. Nobody cares if you can 1v1.

> >

> > Warriors, drop attacking ventari revs at melee on a node they hold.

> >

> > Also, I don't know what you are doing wrong but I kill ventari revs 95% of the time. My secret?

> >

> > I don't run healing Sig. Figure it out.

>

> To moving to another node...

>

> You know that they can just follow you, right? I had a ventari rev follow me the whole match, preventing me from doing anything. Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, revenant can keep up with most people.

 

Gonna stop you right here...

 

I play warrior. My only speedbuff is from trait. I do not use sword or GS(mobility "kings") Can still outrun everyone but theif. But thief is a 5 second kill for me.

 

Also what you say is hard to swallow. A ventari revs main trick is aoe kd. Now that you are mobile and running away you take away 70% of their power over you... HOW are hey still getting you? Legit question. Also what class are you?

 

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Ventari Revenants are not used as primary supports. They push side nodes while their team has another support, like an Auramancer, in the team fight. If you leave them alone, they just push another node. You can go back and decal them again, but then you're either getting recapped just as fast or are using two players to counteract them and coming out even. It's not as easy to outrotate a Ventari Revenant as you are implying, and it's not a fair expectation of the average solo queuer. Also, the build IS toxic. It's bad for the game. It makes the meta tankier, slower, and less fun. You can disagree with that, but calling someone toxic for thinking that is idiotic.

[Saiyan.1704]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > > @Exciton.8942 said:

> > > > > @messiah.1908 said:

> > > >

> > > > > if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

> > > >

> > > > Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

> > > >

> > > > In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

> > > >

> > >

> > > you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

> >

> > I don't understand your Vent Rev Biasness in all these bunk Rev threads...

> >

> > You're wrong, players Do Not work as a team in SoloQ.

> >

> > You're right, Vent Rev are easier to handle in a premade vs premade scenario.

> >

> > Lastly, Vent Rev IS more difficult to handle compared to old Turret Engi, of which, WAS easy to out rotate (cause his turrets literally cant move..) yet Anet removed them.

> >

> > These are the facts of Vent Rev. Anyone else has no other argument. If you do, you're running with a good Mes or Thief and are NOT the minority; nor are you at the mercy of Matchmaking...

>

> i play mostly soloq. before the match starts i ask guard to play with me, thief to decap far. this way with guard we could hold 2v3 while i ress him or heal him and he did all the dmg. i didnt even used EE only when he was down. pvp is team effort. when i was targeted by enemy team the guard put his dmg on me to force them to back off. i dont know this guard but we had fun. dont forget that we get more dmg, more cc ad more condi burst compare to the era of turret engi. so you cant compare those two.

> in team fight rev wont abuse EE as he needs nrg to support his allies. if rev does 1v1 his team has no support so the enemy team should win team fights.

> you can also see comment of players said they can handle this build, counter it, or out rotate it. and you still refuse.

 

While you have games where players listen to you, i'm over here pinging mini map, sending numerous team chat messages, about how our Necro shouldn't 1v1 a rev on a point that we did not own... he rotated off of mid which we owned to fight him and left mid 2v3. You may have those games but again, MANY players are at the mercy of matchmaking. In the long run, Vent Rev BAITS noobs all too often to the point of map snowball.

 

You're talking about Era vs Era which is completely besides the point - old Turret Engi has a larger flaw compared to the Vent Rev of today:

* Vent rev is a mobile heavy AoE CC castle that baits your Gold level team while you're the Plat T2 player trying to carry. They rotate, he rotates with you.

* Turret Engi is the AoE damage + tank bruiser that's VERY limited where he places his turrets.... he's not nearly as mobile as Vent Rev.

 

To say this is a different "era" where we have higher bursts today, is completely irrelevant to these individual class's performances in their own average playerbase games. Perhaps you get players who listens to your rotations and have these CC bursts. Many players such as myself are not as fortunate...

 

I ran with a bunker rev duo the other night and got on a win streaks. Say what you're saying to the 30 unique players that we beat.

[Cosbuster.4379]

There's something wrong when the counterplay against a build is having your entire team work in perfect unison while said build sits on one point the entire game contemplating the stars.