messiah.1908 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Saiyan.1704 said: > Replace *Vent Rev* in this thread with *Turret Engi*... the majority here knows the end result of that story. The only thing standing in front of this particular epilogue is Path of Fire. So we'll continue to talk about it and continue to fact check the same people who, for some reason, are still trying to defend that AFK class. > > Still comparing Bunk Rev to Ranger @"messiah.1908"? One class that takes kiting skills in just 1v1 while the need to kite in a 1v2 is a must. While attempting to bunk an owned point when it is always an inevitable Contested-turned node? Yet the other class goes afk _only_ until it sees a 1v2...? Oh wait... they're Gold T1... nvm he's not going to kite - yea, he's just standing there on point still.... just.. trolling my non-Plat team. > > The comparison is quite clear for sure. i compare it to ranger and ele. i see ppl managing to do 1v2 and 1v3 with them while kiting. this is worse than holding the point imo as your team doen 4v3 or 4v2. good ranger can hold his point 1v1 . so your only problem is that ventari managing to decap. also thief mobility enable him to decap and even cap and come back faster to the fight. your only problem i think as main guard you havent figure out how to counter them and guard are good counter to them. so w8 till pof comes out and you'll have more easy way to counter them but pay attention rev will be out of the meta. no condi build, no power viable build (compare to other) and if EE nerf no support bunker build also find other solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt Frosty.6973 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 A little bit of rambling, but I hope some of you may find what I say useful enough. Ok, just to ease some of your minds. having given this ventari revenant some thought after it seems to have risen in popularity, I really don't see how people could call it OP or even strong. In summary Ventari Revenant can be played in one of 2 roles: support 6 side noder. It appears the part people are crying op about are the side node offense with the spammable knockback. Personally I didn't see why this would be considered op or strong, but i gave it a shot at duelling anyway. In 100% of the duels I won the duel (using the druid build I played in the last EU UGO, which we won). What do I mean by winning? I mean that after I got decapped (which will always happen eventually, In our duels around 1-2 minutes), I could reliably get the fullcap back in the span of another 1-2 minutes. Why? The knockback has a very clear animation, and the rev has nothing else you need to be dodging. Furthermore, spamming the knockback (including the repositioning of the tablet) means the rev is at very low energy almost all the time. That means, he will most likely need a few seconds after the last knockback until he can cast his condi cleanse. That means, a welltimed knockback into ancient seeds will get serious cap progress every time. Other sidenoding classes should also have no trouble against this class either. Warrior has more dodges than all classes combined curerntly and engi should be able to dodge/block/stab all knockbacks for the full duration of a match. If nothing else, Ventari Rev is even slower than necro, which also makes it super easy to outrotate (in case you do not want to play the cap/decap game). You should be able to decap the ventari rev every time he decides to join a different fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Pvt Frosty.6973" said: > A little bit of rambling, but I hope some of you may find what I say useful enough. > > Ok, just to ease some of your minds. having given this ventari revenant some thought after it seems to have risen in popularity, I really don't see how people could call it OP or even strong. > In summary Ventari Revenant can be played in one of 2 roles: support 6 side noder. > It appears the part people are crying op about are the side node offense with the spammable knockback. > > Personally I didn't see why this would be considered op or strong, but i gave it a shot at duelling anyway. In 100% of the duels I won the duel (using the druid build I played in the last EU UGO, which we won). What do I mean by winning? I mean that after I got decapped (which will always happen eventually, In our duels around 1-2 minutes), I could reliably get the fullcap back in the span of another 1-2 minutes. Why? > > The knockback has a very clear animation, and the rev has nothing else you need to be dodging. > Furthermore, spamming the knockback (including the repositioning of the tablet) means the rev is at very low energy almost all the time. That means, he will most likely need a few seconds after the last knockback until he can cast his condi cleanse. That means, a welltimed knockback into ancient seeds will get serious cap progress every time. > > Other sidenoding classes should also have no trouble against this class either. Warrior has more dodges than all classes combined curerntly and engi should be able to dodge/block/stab all knockbacks for the full duration of a match. > > If nothing else, Ventari Rev is even slower than necro, which also makes it super easy to outrotate (in case you do not want to play the cap/decap game). You should be able to decap the ventari rev every time he decides to join a different fight. wait wait wait.... you saying rev has no nrg after using EE..... but he has 6 fragments which heals him... you say its easy to notice the kb but ppl say the tablet move or rev can stand and hide the animation..... also ppl say rev can kb every 3 sec and no class has so many dodges.... also you say warrior, ranger and engi can handle it. but eventually rev will take the node from you. and you say only top tier players can handle it..... OMG .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt Frosty.6973 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @messiah.1908 said: > > @"Pvt Frosty.6973" said: > > A little bit of rambling, but I hope some of you may find what I say useful enough. > > > > Ok, just to ease some of your minds. having given this ventari revenant some thought after it seems to have risen in popularity, I really don't see how people could call it OP or even strong. > > In summary Ventari Revenant can be played in one of 2 roles: support 6 side noder. > > It appears the part people are crying op about are the side node offense with the spammable knockback. > > > > Personally I didn't see why this would be considered op or strong, but i gave it a shot at duelling anyway. In 100% of the duels I won the duel (using the druid build I played in the last EU UGO, which we won). What do I mean by winning? I mean that after I got decapped (which will always happen eventually, In our duels around 1-2 minutes), I could reliably get the fullcap back in the span of another 1-2 minutes. Why? > > > > The knockback has a very clear animation, and the rev has nothing else you need to be dodging. > > Furthermore, spamming the knockback (including the repositioning of the tablet) means the rev is at very low energy almost all the time. That means, he will most likely need a few seconds after the last knockback until he can cast his condi cleanse. That means, a welltimed knockback into ancient seeds will get serious cap progress every time. > > > > Other sidenoding classes should also have no trouble against this class either. Warrior has more dodges than all classes combined curerntly and engi should be able to dodge/block/stab all knockbacks for the full duration of a match. > > > > If nothing else, Ventari Rev is even slower than necro, which also makes it super easy to outrotate (in case you do not want to play the cap/decap game). You should be able to decap the ventari rev every time he decides to join a different fight. > > wait wait wait.... you saying rev has no nrg after using EE..... but he has 6 fragments which heals him... > you say its easy to notice the kb but ppl say the tablet move or rev can stand and hide the animation..... > also ppl say rev can kb every 3 sec and no class has so many dodges.... > also you say warrior, ranger and engi can handle it. but eventually rev will take the node from you. > > and you say only top tier players can handle it..... > > OMG .... Its not about the fragments, its about the condi remove, which requires additional energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterPeanut.9746 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @messiah.1908 said: > > @ButterPeanut.9746 said: > > > I haven't fought a ton of them TBH, but it wouldn't surprise me if DPS classes who aren't at the very top level have trouble killing ventari rev. Can a silver/gold level DH/warrior/mesmer/etc provide enough pressure on their own node to kill a ventari rev (or make them leave) before they get decap'd? I'm inclined to think no, but I also don't want to dive too deep into a rabbit hole about where skill level comes into balance. > > > > again to balance on class cause other low lvl player cant hold ??? by this logic we need to balance the game by our low noob tier players. > ranger also can hold its own and even ele so lets nerf them too. you gonna see more firebrand guard with stability and aegis spam so please w8 > > > You quoted me saying clearly that I don't think it makes sense to dive into the rabbit hole about how skill relates to balance...and then tried to argue the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 guys please stop in two days you wont see bunker rev at all rather bunker firebrand LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amityel.5324 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 dont worry one more day till formus will be flooded with nerf scourge holosmith and deadeye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Amityel.5324 said: > dont worry one more day till formus will be flooded with nerf scourge holosmith and deadeye you mean firebrand, weaver, deadeye, holosmith, scourge, soulbeast, mirage LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It should probably be toned down a bit just because of how destructive unkillable builds can be to this game (see season 1 rip ESL). I don't have issues facing it personally but I definetly agree it's extremely braindead to play and boosts players to higher ratings than they should be. I think it should remain usable though, just nerf the KB i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotASmurf.1725 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @"Pvt Frosty.6973" said: > Its not about the fragments, its about the condi remove, which requires additional energy > You do realize the tablet knockback cleansed conditions especially if you combo it at the right time with the bubble thingy, right? With 0 extra energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @OlrunTheBlade.1486 said: > Top level DPS players cannot kill decent Ventari Revs 1v1. If you're killing it 1v1, then you're playing against absolute garbage. Well... and see that's the thing about metabattle. It's a lemming complex. Horde sees metabattle build, they all start using it because "OMGMETABATTLE4LYFE" and then are absolute garbage like you say. Because maybe only 10%of the entire community can actually play those builds as intended. I tried rolling burn guard... was awful. I suck. Everyone just thinks it's this magic, easy to use, modular system where all you have to do is press number keys in the right order. No This is not guitar hero. Pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlrunTheBlade.1486 Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 @"Pvt Frosty.6973" You're describing playing skillfully against a player who is just spamming their buttons... A good Ventari Rev will cancel the animation of the knockback by moving the tablet. Then, after you get used to that, they can move the tablet to force a dodge, then pop the knockback. Protective Solace is also instant cast and doesn't have an initial energy cost. On top of that, the Revenant has almost 50% uptime on Stability. If he's worried about you knocking him back, he can use cooldowns other than the elite between Stab uptimes. TL;DR - Bad Ventari Revenant play requires top tier players on specific builds to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Ventari rev needs nerf They can hold 3v1 all game What was anet thinking!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Just won a game easily with 2 ventari revs on my team holding 2 side nodes. +1 a ventari rev is much more difficult thing than some one made it out to be here. There was one instance of the game where enemy condition thief was 1v1ing our ventari rev. Their d/p thief immediately decided to +1 and I as a mesmer decided to follow. Thief was faster than me so he got an openning burst on the rev and got him to sth like 30% health. However, it was not enough to kill and the rev managed to sustain himself by the time I got to the fight. The fight turned into a good 2v2 for us on a point that is also captured by us. I managed to kill the condition thief when he got CC'ed by the tablet explosion. If it was a necro trying to +1, it would be even easier for me or any teammate to follow. Best case scenario, you can have something like a necro +scrapper 2v2 on point. But even with that, it will take quite some time to win a fight against ventari rev + anything. Remember during all this time the capture point is in rev's hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlrunTheBlade.1486 Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 How can anet make rev can push 24/7 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Exciton.8942 said: > Just won a game easily with 2 ventari revs on my team holding 2 side nodes. > > +1 a ventari rev is much more difficult thing than some one made it out to be here. > > There was one instance of the game where enemy condition thief was 1v1ing our ventari rev. Their d/p thief immediately decided to +1 and I as a mesmer decided to follow. > Thief was faster than me so he got an openning burst on the rev and got him to sth like 30% health. However, it was not enough to kill and the rev managed to sustain himself by the time I got to the fight. The fight turned into a good 2v2 for us on a point that is also captured by us. I managed to kill the condition thief when he got CC'ed by the tablet explosion. > > If it was a necro trying to +1, it would be even easier for me or any teammate to follow. > > Best case scenario, you can have something like a necro +scrapper 2v2 on point. But even with that, it will take quite some time to win a fight against ventari rev + anything. Remember during all this time the capture point is in rev's hand condi thief should stay range and use sb on point. than d/p thief should steal to put more poison. it would daze the rev to use only his tablet skills. after 1 kb he should have been killed with poison on him. so i guess the thieves wasted their initiative to pressure the rev and probably didnt dodge. also remember how meta change to both ranger taking far and ele support his team. ppl change classes to adapt and not ask for nerf because they wont willing too. also see the video above. rev got killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @NotASmurf.1725 said: > > @"Pvt Frosty.6973" said: > > > Its not about the fragments, its about the condi remove, which requires additional energy > > > You do realize the tablet knockback cleansed conditions especially if you combo it at the right time with the bubble thingy, right? With 0 extra energy? > 1 condi per 10 energy spent, so if he's spamming it'll be one condi every 3 seconds... *gasp* Or 2 condi's if he's patient and waits 4 seconds to get to the 20 energy threshold before casting. And also he has to be right ontop of his tablet to get the cleanse. (240 radius) Still laughably easy to clear out as a condi rev, especially because you can just drop Unyielding right on the point/tablet and he has to move off, thus negating all of the cap progress he made from landing a knock back. And he won't be able to use the tablet for both point control and cleansing if you're dropping all of your condi cancer right on the point, so he'll have to choose between not dying and conceding the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Wait, are people touting a single anecdotal video as proof? I don't think I can facepalm much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @MagicToker.9478 said: > S/D condi thief and Ventari Revs are healthy for the game. It promotes skillful play and requires you to carefully monitor your cool-downs. One false move on a Ventari Revenant and you are DONE. Condi thief brings a new meaning to the class. With the capability to dwindle your opponent down over time, but remain very vulnerable to incoming burst is a risk reward only the most talented of Guild Wars 2 players dare to take. I've went up against some of the best condi thieves in the game, from Maygi to Asuranos. I can tell you right now, they have the reaction time of lightning, and dodge very gracefully. I've even had the luxury of having the top Ventari rev on my team, Revenant Orisci. Perfectly timing every dodge and knock back to sustain themselves outnumbered, what can I say. The epitome of carrying. Just shows you can't simply pick these builds up, it's something you master, and once you do, you reap all of the fame and glory. I disagree completely. In fact, I wonder if this wasn't intended as sarcasm. I just came from a match,(in Gold,) in which a Ventari Rev successfully 3v1'd with virtually no loss of health. People screamed to the heavens when Mesmer had half that level of sustain. **3 People couldn't kick this yo-yo off a point.** I'd not mind seeing Ventari Rev completely removed from the game. **I'll say this for the very first time: "This build is cancer."** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > @MagicToker.9478 said: > > S/D condi thief and Ventari Revs are healthy for the game. It promotes skillful play and requires you to carefully monitor your cool-downs. One false move on a Ventari Revenant and you are DONE. Condi thief brings a new meaning to the class. With the capability to dwindle your opponent down over time, but remain very vulnerable to incoming burst is a risk reward only the most talented of Guild Wars 2 players dare to take. I've went up against some of the best condi thieves in the game, from Maygi to Asuranos. I can tell you right now, they have the reaction time of lightning, and dodge very gracefully. I've even had the luxury of having the top Ventari rev on my team, Revenant Orisci. Perfectly timing every dodge and knock back to sustain themselves outnumbered, what can I say. The epitome of carrying. Just shows you can't simply pick these builds up, it's something you master, and once you do, you reap all of the fame and glory. > > I disagree completely. In fact, I wonder if this wasn't intended as sarcasm. > > I just came from a match,(in Gold,) in which a Ventari Rev successfully 3v1'd with virtually no loss of health. People screamed to the heavens when Mesmer had half that level of sustain. **3 People couldn't kick this yo-yo off a point.** > > I'd not mind seeing Ventari Rev completely removed from the game. **I'll say this for the very first time: "This build is cancer."** 3v1 versus which class and build. as ventari i can do 1v5 if all of them are support ele or guards..... can do 1v5 versus magi rev ... guard can pull off point with f1 ranger can kb with LB engi can too with rifle etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @messiah.1908 said: > > @Exciton.8942 said: > > Just won a game easily with 2 ventari revs on my team holding 2 side nodes. > > > > +1 a ventari rev is much more difficult thing than some one made it out to be here. > > > > There was one instance of the game where enemy condition thief was 1v1ing our ventari rev. Their d/p thief immediately decided to +1 and I as a mesmer decided to follow. > > Thief was faster than me so he got an openning burst on the rev and got him to sth like 30% health. However, it was not enough to kill and the rev managed to sustain himself by the time I got to the fight. The fight turned into a good 2v2 for us on a point that is also captured by us. I managed to kill the condition thief when he got CC'ed by the tablet explosion. > > > > If it was a necro trying to +1, it would be even easier for me or any teammate to follow. > > > > Best case scenario, you can have something like a necro +scrapper 2v2 on point. But even with that, it will take quite some time to win a fight against ventari rev + anything. Remember during all this time the capture point is in rev's hand > > condi thief should stay range and use sb on point. than d/p thief should steal to put more poison. it would daze the rev to use only his tablet skills. after 1 kb he should have been killed with poison on him. so i guess the thieves wasted their initiative to pressure the rev and probably didnt dodge. > > also remember how meta change to both ranger taking far and ele support his team. ppl change classes to adapt and not ask for nerf because they wont willing too. > > also see the video above. rev got killed. You still don't understand the problem. Being able to force a +1 everytime is already OP in itself. When you are 1v2ing, your team will have a 4v3 advantage elsewhere! None of the other sustain builds can do this. To neutralize a druid, you just need another sustainable build to 1v1 him. 2v1 is always an option but never the only option against other bunkerish spec. And I was pointing out, even a 2v1 can be risky. Because 2v1 turns into 2v2 quickly if the rev's teammate decides to help and the cap will still be in rev's team's hand. And in solo queue, you have plenty of retards who decide to +1 a ventari rev even though he doesn't have enough damage to take him out. Then what do you do? 3v1 him? Sure you will kill the rev but at what cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link.1049 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 They really need to do something with this ventari rev build...it can 5 v 1 bunker when done right. the cc overload and stuff isn't working. There's a guardian build that's similar without the knockback. Couldn't take the dude down 1 %. Gamebreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amityel.5324 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @Link.1049 said: > They really need to do something with this ventari rev build...it can 5 v 1 bunker when done right. the cc overload and stuff isn't working. There's a guardian build that's similar without the knockback. Couldn't take the dude down 1 %. Gamebreaking. it can 5v1 i stopped here :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @Exciton.8942 said: > > > @messiah.1908 said: > > > @Exciton.8942 said: > > > Just won a game easily with 2 ventari revs on my team holding 2 side nodes. > > > > > > +1 a ventari rev is much more difficult thing than some one made it out to be here. > > > > > > There was one instance of the game where enemy condition thief was 1v1ing our ventari rev. Their d/p thief immediately decided to +1 and I as a mesmer decided to follow. > > > Thief was faster than me so he got an openning burst on the rev and got him to sth like 30% health. However, it was not enough to kill and the rev managed to sustain himself by the time I got to the fight. The fight turned into a good 2v2 for us on a point that is also captured by us. I managed to kill the condition thief when he got CC'ed by the tablet explosion. > > > > > > If it was a necro trying to +1, it would be even easier for me or any teammate to follow. > > > > > > Best case scenario, you can have something like a necro +scrapper 2v2 on point. But even with that, it will take quite some time to win a fight against ventari rev + anything. Remember during all this time the capture point is in rev's hand > > > > condi thief should stay range and use sb on point. than d/p thief should steal to put more poison. it would daze the rev to use only his tablet skills. after 1 kb he should have been killed with poison on him. so i guess the thieves wasted their initiative to pressure the rev and probably didnt dodge. > > > > also remember how meta change to both ranger taking far and ele support his team. ppl change classes to adapt and not ask for nerf because they wont willing too. > > > > also see the video above. rev got killed. > > > You still don't understand the problem. > > Being able to force a +1 everytime is already OP in itself. When you are 1v2ing, your team will have a 4v3 advantage elsewhere! > > None of the other sustain builds can do this. To neutralize a druid, you just need another sustainable build to 1v1 him. 2v1 is always an option but never the only option against other bunkerish spec. > > And I was pointing out, even a 2v1 can be risky. Because 2v1 turns into 2v2 quickly if the rev's teammate decides to help and the cap will still be in rev's team's hand. And in solo queue, you have plenty of kitten who decide to +1 a ventari rev even though he doesn't have enough damage to take him out. Then what do you do? 3v1 him? Sure you will kill the rev but at what cost. > > Send good guard or druid they have stability evades block sustain the fight while also kb to pressure the rev to be with zero nrg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @Amityel.5324 said: > > @Link.1049 said: > > They really need to do something with this ventari rev build...it can 5 v 1 bunker when done right. the cc overload and stuff isn't working. There's a guardian build that's similar without the knockback. Couldn't take the dude down 1 %. Gamebreaking. > > it can 5v1 i stopped here :D Now I know this whole thread is rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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