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not happy with the state of PvP and WvW


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Less than 300 voters for the PvP poll and slightly over 300 for the WvW poll, some unknown number of which may have voted for both.

Someday you’ll want to read about sample size, how questions are phrased affect the results and about self selection bias, as I suspect all 3 of these affect these 2 polls.

 

At any rate a balance patch is coming up soon.

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Players who are happy with game have no reason to even visit the forums - meaning every game forum is full of people complaining about the game and demanding changes, this does not make overall playerbase unhappy. Many active forum posters do not even play the game anymore, yet they continue to complain about it on daily basis.

 

We have seen this happening before. Years ago few players did huuuuge campaign in the forum claiming the game is too easy and how every player expects more difficult enemies and more complex maps. So, when Anet listened and released HoT, it was disaster. Turned out the overall playerbase did not really want that at all and lots of players quit even after HoT content was nerfed multiple times.

 

Same way, when new maps were added to the WvW couple players flooded the forum with posts how horrible new map were and how everyone loves the good old WvW maps we have been running around for 5 years. I admit original desert maps had problems and in some parts were unfinished, bugs got fixed and maps were updated, yet the whining continued. Once the developers placed in actual poll that was pointed out in the game, it turned out most players were now fine with these maps despite couple posters still complaining about them.

 

Gliding in WvW. Again, few people posting new threads every day to complain how it will ruin WvW and make everyone quit. Turned out, nope, everyone loved it.

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"Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums.

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> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums.

 

While what you say is true, it's not a complete fallacy. That is to say, I had feedback cards in my computer store. 95% of the people who used those cards used them to complain. But 95% of our customer base never filled them out, even though most of them were happy with the service.

 

It takes effort for many to post on the forums and that requires motivation. Being displeased is more motivation to post than being happy. If you're happy you're motivated to play, and you don't need to spend the time here.

 

Complaining is human nature. Complimenting, not so much. It's true you CAN do both. But people who are not happy with the game have more time not playing to spend here.

 

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> "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated.

It's not a fallacy. Happy people are doing what makes them happy; bored and cranky people take time to comment.

It's pretty easy to see at nearly any forum. Companies that score well from independent assessments might do poorly on GlassDoor. It turns out to be one of the bigger problems for sites like Yelp to deal with, too.

 

> Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments.

While true, it doesn't mean that those opinions are proportionally represented on the forums

 

> If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums.

Yes, as it turns out, players who are happy are less likely to visit the forums. If we believe the /profession forums, all classes are nerfed to the ground (and all the others are overpowered).

 

None of that means that happy players don't post here. It just means that crankiness is overrepresented. And that's not even a bad thing, for ANet. It just means that we can't measure how popular or unpopular an idea from viewing polls here or how many posts there are complaining about this or that.

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> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> 85% of GW2 players don't care about either mode.

Which is why I, at least, voted 'no' on that poll.

Because I couldn't say that I'm happy with the current state of the PvP: the devs should just stop trying to balance it, and focus the resources on developing PvE instead.

 

Having to balance abilities and professions for both PvE and PvP means that some things simply cannot be added into the game without breaking something.

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> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> I enjoy the game. That doesn't mean there are parts of it I don't like. I read the forums everyday partially because I enjoy a lively debate. The forums hold some interest apart from the game. I think this fallacy of the bitter complainer is used to claim some consensus.

 

If 200 players complain about the game in the forum, then only thing we know for sure is that 200 players complained in the forum. What we also know is that those 200 players are NOT 85% of playerbase. The claim in the title of this thread is plain wrong.

 

In case you want to show opinion of 85% playerbase you would need to know total number of players first. Which we don't know. We don't also know how many from total players play PvP or WvW. Even after these numbers it is still fairly weird to assume those who post frequently in the forum represent somehow exactly everyone who never visits the forums.

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Admittedly, it is conclusions like this which make me wonder why Anet allowed for polls to exist on the forums. Sure, most of us know they're for entertainment purposes, but there are people who aren't as familiar or comfortable with stats, and they're prone to making errors like the above.

 

OP, do take the advice from other posters to heart; not just for the polls on this forum, but for polls you'll find anywhere online. They suffer from many biases which makes any conclusion you try to draw from them suspect at best :(.

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Of course there is another demographic that is also not represented in the poll at all. All the people who have left the game. Is the active playerbase in a trend of decline? Is the active pvp playerbase increasing? IRL you may notice that if you think something, quite often you'll realise that many others feel the same, even without polls.

 

So yes, it's an incomplete data set, but then there are 2 types of people in life;

1. those that can extrapolate from incomplete data sets.

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There is other ways to interpret what is going on.

To merely say 'most people dont care about pvp, its just observer bias' is quite potentially observer bias in itself and possibly failing to see the bigger picture. Why do so few, seemingly, that still play this game have no interest in pvp? Do pvp based games in general take a a very small part of the market share? Could the sentiment of those who express negative views about the state of pvp be a reason some ppl no longer play?

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> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums.

 

You're forgetting basic human traits. It is absolutely expected for developers to do their job well, in addition to the fact negative situations have a larger impact on the human brain than positive situations. We even remember negative situations better than positive situations. This drives humans to complain faaaaar more often than they compliment. How often do you see people raging in games compared to genuine compliments? Complaining is also a form of letting stress go, where as humans don't have this sudden urge to go out and say something positive.

 

There is also the issue that forum communities are always a minority. Feedback for changes that impact everyone would have to come from more than just forums, it's why games send out emails, in-game surveys, look at Reddit, etc.

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