Dashiva.6149 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > "85% of the ~~playerbase~~ **people that participated in these polls ar**e not happy with the state of PvP and WvW. > Fixed it. But yeah these polls are not very good or conclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halan.8951 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I only play PvP if PvE daily is not something I want to do. And to get dungeon currency from reward tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 It seems slightly disingenuous to point out that only a small percentage of ppl come to the forums and an even smaller percent of those participated in the poll itself, while not mentioning, that by the same logic, there would then be a higher number of people who voted with their feet. It is short sighted to believe that what effects the pvp community does not effect the game as a whole. Those that like pvp also engage in pve and add revenue, to a greater or lesser degree. If consumers look for a complete package elsewhere, or play multiple games to achieve what they want, this does in fact diminish the playerbase and profitability. Not to mention the lack of empathy. Was the poll conclusive? No. Could the title of this thread been worded better? Yes. Does that mean there is no merit in it, or should we just fixate on shuffling words around...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd.6573 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums. While you are correct in the purpose of the forums, the way they work in reality is vastly different. Certain subforums more than other of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I knew that the total gw2 players were around 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientoak.4258 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Like with every poll from games to politics, its only representative of a vocal minority who participates in it, not the majority. So this says nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 problem is, only people who are dissatisfied will come here to complain/vote against.. so.. yea.. for every dissatsfied vote you got, there were probably more than 10 satisfied people playing the game instead of voting on polls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teofa Tsavo.9863 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 And I will repeat that bringing up this "silent majority" who never visit the forums is a farce. Because they are silent. You have no clue if they are "silently" loving every aspect of the game or "silently" walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Ayakaru.6583 said: > problem is, only people who are dissatisfied will come here to complain/vote against.. so.. yea.. for every dissatsfied vote you got, there were probably more than 10 satisfied people playing the game instead of voting on polls And how many dissatisfied customers who left with out ever saying a word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 this has to be the most unrealistic most bias statistical report that I ever read :p 85% player base not happy with the game sound like 85% of all the players not happy with it. can you tell me how many players in gw2 do we have? across all the players I mean active players how many % of them are pvp and how many % is wvw? By active players, I mean those tht currently play the game if not logging in daily, at least doing all the content in the game and participate in each updates. how many of the active players really actually CARE about pvp and wvw game mode? you will be surprise to see most player base are PVE and majority of these players DO NOT care about pvp and wvw. so, the statistic data collected is of no use to demand for major improvement unless there are large demand for it across all gw2 population. I believe the demand and majority source of monetary support to gw2 coming from pve casual players. improvement to the game well it is nice to have improvement but I do not think arena net should waste too much on area that there is not much population and support to game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Dashiva.6149 said: > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > "85% of the ~~playerbase~~ **people that participated in these polls ar**e not happy with the state of PvP and WvW. > > > > Fixed it. But yeah these polls are not very good or conclusive. With anything like this, the 1/9/90 rule applies: 1% of the community tends to create new content on a forum for any social medium, including MMOs... 9% makes edits or replies to the 1% of content creators, and 90% don't get involved at all. Then you have the poll itself which, as others have pointed out, could have poorly worded questions that then imply a result that is not actually indicative even of the people who voted. On top of that there is always confirmation bias, which leads people to search specifically for evidence that supports their own views. That is why threads with positive messages only tend to gather replies from other people with positive things to share, and threads with negative messages tend to be more likely to gather others who are also dissatisfied about the same issue. It's even more obvious when you go to places like the GW2 Reddit, where there is less moderation to squelch the most toxic threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogLeg.9354 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @troops.8276 said: > It seems slightly disingenuous to point out that only a small percentage of ppl come to the forums and an even smaller percent of those participated in the poll itself, while not mentioning, that by the same logic, there would then be a higher number of people who voted with their feet. The problem with discussing why players leave the game or even how many have left GW2 over certain timeframe is obvious, again, we just don't know. Some players leave, some new players join. What reasons each had to stop playing... dunno. Is there even one single reason or multiple reasons, some having nothing to do with the game? Has overall PvP or WvW playerbase increased or reduced and why? We don't know. I doubt there is anyone saying game is absolutely perfect and can not be improved in any way. Yet, once you start to look closer, players have many different views on what parts are important, what gamemodes matter and what exactly should/could be improved. Take 100 players and ask what is wrong with WvW and they all give hugely different lists, if you then ask how to improve WvW, they again give suggestions going very different directions. So, if Anet would make any changes there is good chance some players will be happy and some will be upset while some don't care. So what have we learned from this thread? Nothing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientoak.4258 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said: > And I will repeat that bringing up this "silent majority" who never visit the forums is a farce. Because they are silent. You have no clue if they are "silently" loving every aspect of the game or "silently" walking away. They are silently enjoying their lives and dont waste all day everyday on game forums maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teofa Tsavo.9863 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @ancientoak.4258 said: > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said: > > And I will repeat that bringing up this "silent majority" who never visit the forums is a farce. Because they are silent. You have no clue if they are "silently" loving every aspect of the game or "silently" walking away. > > They are silently enjoying their lives and dont waste all day everyday on game forums maybe? It's always a good tactic to insinuate that there is something wrong with a group of people, isn't it? Because people enjoy being belittled on a gross generality and it leads to such positive discourse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @FogLeg.9354 said: > > @troops.8276 said: > > It seems slightly disingenuous to point out that only a small percentage of ppl come to the forums and an even smaller percent of those participated in the poll itself, while not mentioning, that by the same logic, there would then be a higher number of people who voted with their feet. > > The problem with discussing why players leave the game or even how many have left GW2 over certain timeframe is obvious, again, we just don't know. Some players leave, some new players join. What reasons each had to stop playing... dunno. Is there even one single reason or multiple reasons, some having nothing to do with the game? Has overall PvP or WvW playerbase increased or reduced and why? We don't know. > > I doubt there is anyone saying game is absolutely perfect and can not be improved in any way. Yet, once you start to look closer, players have many different views on what parts are important, what gamemodes matter and what exactly should/could be improved. Take 100 players and ask what is wrong with WvW and they all give hugely different lists, if you then ask how to improve WvW, they again give suggestions going very different directions. So, if Anet would make any changes there is good chance some players will be happy and some will be upset while some don't care. > > So what have we learned from this thread? Nothing really. Quite. Does that however mean there should be no discussion on the matter. There is a debate of course for correlation and causation. Is pvp 'bad' because ppl dont want it or do less ppl want it because its 'bad'. Obviously that's a very rough way of putting it but the point should still be clear and stand none the less. We only have circumstantial evidence about playerbase numbers. Quarterly reports from Anet, server merging, solo/duo q, increased rewards, struggling mm, anecdotal evidence and the like. The perceived subjective quality of pvp, or lack thereof, can still not be dismissed as a reason for ppl leaving, nor can the fact that most ppl by a much greater magnitude will simply leave without ever going on the forums. Mmo's are a package. But in truth, I doubt anything will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 wvw and pvp can die off it will not be missed at all . they should put them teams to work on pve content fully . if they did maybe the game would get much need qol updates . and not more broken stuff after a patch or servers down half the time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Vayne.8563 said: > > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > > "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums. > > While what you say is true, it's not a complete fallacy. That is to say, I had feedback cards in my computer store. 95% of the people who used those cards used them to complain. But 95% of our customer base never filled them out, even though most of them were happy with the service. People don't get excited about going to a store and want to talk about it with their friends. The ONLY way I'll visit the forum of a game is if I'm happy with if. If i don't like the game i don't want to talk about it with any one. I absolutely believe it's false that only unhappy people visit forums, and not only false but completely wrong. The most enthusiastic fans visit and people that don't like the game go to the bar instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teofa Tsavo.9863 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > wvw and pvp can die off it will not be missed at all . they should put them teams to work on pve content fully . if they did maybe the game would get much need qol updates . and not more broken stuff after a patch or servers down half the time . That is very subjective and false. From "my" perspective I could say "remove all platforming, it won't be missed", and while correct in "MY" perspective, it is not correct in the larger playerbase and I do not assume that all share my view. I'm often outnumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > wvw and pvp can die off it will not be missed at all . they should put them teams to work on pve content fully . if they did maybe the game would get much need qol updates . and not more broken stuff after a patch or servers down half the time . Maybe you're right. If those that want any form of pvp interaction as part of their game time took themselves, their friends and their wallets elsewhere it may be a boon for Anets competitors in the market, possibly leading to healthier numbers elsewhere and then maybe some pve folk would drift. Because you know some like a feeling of things being busy, maybe that's part of the reason for the f2p element. Then Anet can focus fully on what brings in the money, the cash shop. Glorious days lie ahead. Pure speculation I know, but if its not at least a possible outcome would Anet still be putting resources into PvP. Is there many mmo's that don't have any form of pvp? Is there any successful games that do have pvp? I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Fluffball.8307 said: > > @Vayne.8563 said: > > > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > > > "Players who are happy with the game have no reason to even visit the forums" ........ I wish this fallacy would stop being repeated. Forum is here to provide positive, negative, and request comments. If the forum was only for negative feedback then it would be true that players who are happy with the game would have no reason to visit the forums. > > > > While what you say is true, it's not a complete fallacy. That is to say, I had feedback cards in my computer store. 95% of the people who used those cards used them to complain. But 95% of our customer base never filled them out, even though most of them were happy with the service. > > People don't get excited about going to a store and want to talk about it with their friends. The ONLY way I'll visit the forum of a game is if I'm happy with if. If i don't like the game i don't want to talk about it with any one. I absolutely believe it's false that only unhappy people visit forums, and not only false but completely wrong. The most enthusiastic fans visit and people that don't like the game go to the bar instead. > > The thing is that even in customer service industries like a store, they tell you that the people that complain are the ones that want to come back after their complaint has been resolved. These are the people that love your store or your service or your product, and want to see it meet the potential that it is capable of reaching in their eyes. People whose complaints are satisfied are more likely to come back than people who didn't, because the people who didn't have no investment in the service you're providing. People also **absolutely** get excited about going to **their** specific store and talk about it to their friends. The place I work for has become a billion dollar franchise entirely based off of this business model, and I bet you can name other companies that have as well. The people that come to the forums probably **mostly** love the game, or at least love the game's potential. That said, that doesn't mean that there isn't a significant number of players that comes to the forums specifically because they are unhappy. A person can be enthusiastic and can love a thing and still be unhappy about a perceived direction that it is taking. A person can absolutely love something, and still mostly only complain about it on a public forum, while also turning around and recommending it to their friends. I actually see it happen every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Maybe a poll along the lines of; Should Anet drop the term "world class pvp" and any other mention of it (sPvP and WvW) from their website and advertising. Replacing it with a statement similar to "we no longer fully support these game modes" YES NO OTHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron.1987 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 85% of the playerbase not happy with the state of PvP and WvW 341 peeps So we know now less than 400 people(100%) only playing the game . Thx to OP! Panic time !!! Gw2 is even more dead than wildstar. 111. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @troops.8276 said: > > @Ayakaru.6583 said: > > problem is, only people who are dissatisfied will come here to complain/vote against.. so.. yea.. for every dissatsfied vote you got, there were probably more than 10 satisfied people playing the game instead of voting on polls > > And how many dissatisfied customers who left with out ever saying a word? I have no reason to believe that would be any bigger than the smalest group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 67% of statistics are made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynn.1659 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I think you mean 85% of like 10 very loud people on the forum. Since most of the playerbase doesn't care about pvp or wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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