Malediktus.9250 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Malediktus.9250 said: > > I am not selling raids, it is not worth my time. But these raid masteries forced people to at least try raids a tiny bit. Now they can ignore them again and act as if it is the worst thing that was ever added to the game when in fact it is the highest quality piece of content you can find in this game. > > I'm curious, if your reason for disliking this, is because the old system "forced" players to at least try the Raids, how do you feel about future Raids not having a mastery track anymore (so nobody will be "forced" to try them anymore) I think it is a negative. Not only is the mastery system getting neglected already (no new tyrria masteries, no new HoT masteries, PoF only had 20 new masteries all related to mounts), I am also drowning in existing mastery points with nothing to spend them on. The whole mastery system is a ruse. It neither takes mastery to unlock all masteries, but it is also insanely easy and fast to unlock all masteries. In essence they could get rid of the mastery system and make the bonus of the mastery lines baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Malediktus.9250 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Malediktus.9250 said: > > > I am not selling raids, it is not worth my time. But these raid masteries forced people to at least try raids a tiny bit. Now they can ignore them again and act as if it is the worst thing that was ever added to the game when in fact it is the highest quality piece of content you can find in this game. > > > > I'm curious, if your reason for disliking this, is because the old system "forced" players to at least try the Raids, how do you feel about future Raids not having a mastery track anymore (so nobody will be "forced" to try them anymore) > I think it is a negative. Not only is the mastery system getting neglected already (no new tyrria masteries, no new HoT masteries, PoF only had 20 new masteries all related to mounts), I am also drowning in existing mastery points with nothing to spend them on. The whole mastery system is a ruse. It neither takes mastery to unlock all masteries, but it is also insanely easy and fast to unlock all masteries. In essence they could get rid of the mastery system and make the bonus of the mastery lines baseline. Mastery system being failed concept is totally different discussion. This whole system was nothing but an artificial timegate for HoT not to feel empty from day one. Currently they can get rid of masteries altogether as they serve no purpose as seperate system and can already be a part of other systems. To claim that hiding raid masteries for non raiders is bad, you have to bring a good portion of people who started raiding **only because of mastery being part of the raid after getting which they stayed as active full time raiders to this day**. I doubt there are such people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDudisx.5914 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 No one should be forced to raid of they don't want to. No need to further argumentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > > > > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. > > It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. > > The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. > > So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. On the contrary, look at what happens in PoF: you max everything without acquiring the Griffon and you get spirit shards for excess XP. Look at what ANet said about how the current situation came about: left to do it over again, they wouldn't make raid skills a mastery (since it only applies to niche content). It's not like getting GWAMM for 29 achievements; it's like not being required to do optional content to earn a reward. And again, what's the big deal either way? Shards already drop like snowflakes during a snowstorm, far in excess of anyone's ability to spend them all. As a reward, it's barely better than getting basic halloween tonics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > On the contrary, look at what happens in PoF: you max everything without acquiring the Griffon and you get spirit shards for excess XP. Look at what ANet said about how the current situation came about: left to do it over again, they wouldn't make raid skills a mastery (since it only applies to niche content). It's not like getting GWAMM for 29 achievements; it's like not being required to do optional content to earn a reward. > > And again, what's the big deal either way? Shards already drop like snowflakes during a snowstorm, far in excess of anyone's ability to spend them all. As a reward, it's barely better than getting basic halloween tonics. Actually WP proved on his alt account that unless you have shards hoarded from old days, they are a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > On the contrary, look at what happens in PoF: you max everything without acquiring the Griffon and you get spirit shards for excess XP. Look at what ANet said about how the current situation came about: left to do it over again, they wouldn't make raid skills a mastery (since it only applies to niche content). It's not like getting GWAMM for 29 achievements; it's like not being required to do optional content to earn a reward. > > And again, what's the big deal either way? Shards already drop like snowflakes during a snowstorm, far in excess of anyone's ability to spend them all. As a reward, it's barely better than getting basic halloween tonics. The big deal is they've walked back on masteries being progression points. They've made the entire process contrarian. Instead of maxing and getting rewarded just like the previous systems we now get rewarded regardless. So i submit again, I'd like my GWAMM participation award too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > > > On the contrary, look at what happens in PoF: you max everything without acquiring the Griffon and you get spirit shards for excess XP. Look at what ANet said about how the current situation came about: left to do it over again, they wouldn't make raid skills a mastery (since it only applies to niche content). It's not like getting GWAMM for 29 achievements; it's like not being required to do optional content to earn a reward. > > > > And again, what's the big deal either way? Shards already drop like snowflakes during a snowstorm, far in excess of anyone's ability to spend them all. As a reward, it's barely better than getting basic halloween tonics. > > Actually WP proved on his alt account that unless you have shards hoarded from old days, they are a problem Actually, what he showed doesn't affect my point. Of course new accounts will lack enough spirit shards. And of course, anyone in a rush to do raids alone and transform a bunch of gear is going to run into a temporary problem of running short. However, adding shards for non-raiders who max the rest of the masteries doesn't help new players (they haven't maxed masteries) and it provides only modest relief. Eventually, even WP's alt account is going to have too many shards. **** > @TexZero.7910 said: > The big deal is they've walked back on masteries being progression points. They've made the entire process contrarian. Instead of maxing and getting rewarded just like the previous systems we now get rewarded regardless. So i submit again, I'd like my GWAMM participation award too. There's nothing to say if someone thinks max masteries and GWAMM are even remotely equivalent in terms of effort or progression. GWAMM is closer to reaching 15k AP, not counting dailies (or perhaps 12k, for those who started after 2012). All that ANet has done is offered the tiniest conceivable reward for XP earned after reaching L80, and offering a fixed cutoff that distinguishes optional content from expected. Masteries remain progression points; they just aren't all that more special than reaching L80 used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > There's nothing to say if someone thinks max masteries and GWAMM are even remotely equivalent in terms of effort or progression. GWAMM is closer to reaching 15k AP, not counting dailies (or perhaps 12k, for those who started after 2012). All that ANet has done is offered the tiniest conceivable reward for XP earned after reaching L80, and offering a fixed cutoff that distinguishes optional content from expected. > > Masteries remain progression points; they just aren't all that more special than reaching L80 used to be. If there's nothing to say and you have a wall of text clearly there's something to be said. If i said to you instead of getting GWAMM at 30 titles you could get it at 20 that would change your entire perception of what an endgame objective is. In very much the same way when you say masteries are your end game progression system that is going to replace conventional leveling that should mean something and shouldn't shift. If the reward for maxing all masteries, not just the visible ones (although this is only a post-facto fix to deal with complaining) is that you get rewarded with spirit shards just like the prior system then any new system that's built off it should do the same. Meaning you should only get extra shards upon level up for completely maxing out, not arbitrarily deciding you don't want to. This is the core flaw with the shift to the system. It's contrarian to the entire design of the system as a whole. If people "want their exp to be meaningful" then they should do the content. If people want to fix the problem of not enough spirit shard then anet should fix that in a way that doesnt entirely devalue and contradict the systems they have in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronometria.3708 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 A long time back I manned up and did a little raiding to get my mastery track unlocked. What I experienced was pretty horrible and, due to a bug, when I got my first LI, the track didn't unlock for me, so I had to do it all over. Regardless of this I stuck with it and eventually killed a couple of the bosses. Then I left raiding and have not returned since, because I simply don't enjoy it. I also saw a great many other people forcing themselves into raids. A few of them were like me, with enough familiarity with TS and tactics to get through, but many of them were just average joe players who really didn't measure up to the challenge. They struggled, died and gave up almost immediately, only to cause the whole group to fall apart time and time again. I imagine a good few probably quit the game itself due to those experiences. If creating new raiders was the objective, then forcing everyone to raid came at a very high cost and left a bad taste in the mouths of many, even those who were capable of getting through it at a basic level. I am glad to see that this requirement is being lifted. The situation did grave damage to the game mode it was supposed to foster and caused a permanent divide in the community that we now need to work on healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 As someone who has more than enough spirit shards, it was never a pressing problem for me. With the rise of non-raid legendary armor, I basically can close the raid chapter happily behind me. But I already rambled on the old forum how Anet was really trying hard to bring people into raids and how that may actually harm the whole game, and chonometria already explained why this is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Finally \o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Hude.2910 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Sorry for revining a fairly old thread, and I dont want to restart the pro/con discussion... > Here's what [anet_ianim](https://www.reddit.com/user/anet_ianim) wrote (link in the top post): > First thing: with the next raid release, the HoT Raid Mastery Track will be hidden just like the Griffon track. They can be unlocked the same as always: by completing any raid event. We understand that some people don't want to do raids, but want their delicious Spirit Shards. So let's fix that. Is there any information WHEN this "_next raid release_" will happen? Could it be together with the upcoming LW4 release? Thanks, --kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Good, raiding should be 100% optional like spvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 finally, although it never bothered me, I always had around 2k to 5k of spirit shards with no idea where to spend it all. attention is drawn to Anet's delay in solving small QOLs, it took 2 years, and I do not believe it involves a lot of complex programming like making a new map or a entire expansion!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @"Kay Hude.2910" said: > Sorry for revining a fairly old thread, and I dont want to restart the pro/con discussion... > > > Here's what [anet_ianim](https://www.reddit.com/user/anet_ianim) wrote (link in the top post): > > First thing: with the next raid release, the HoT Raid Mastery Track will be hidden just like the Griffon track. They can be unlocked the same as always: by completing any raid event. We understand that some people don't want to do raids, but want their delicious Spirit Shards. So let's fix that. > > Is there any information WHEN this "_next raid release_" will happen? Could it be together with the upcoming LW4 release? > > Thanks, > --kay On LS4 launch day 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > > > > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > > > > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > > > > > > > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. > > > > It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. > > > > The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. > > > > So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. > > > > > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. I think raid minority will be happy not to carry more people that only reason to play raid is unlocking mastery line :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynn.1659 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. > > I think raid minority will be happy not to carry more people that only reason to play raid is unlocking mastery line :) Just do escort, it's not that hard. You only neeed 5 people that know what to do, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Cynn.1659 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > > > > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > > > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > > > > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. > > > > I think raid minority will be happy not to carry more people that only reason to play raid is unlocking mastery line :) > > Just do escort, it's not that hard. You only neeed 5 people that know what to do, that's it. Not anymore I don't have to :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > > > > > > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > > > > > > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > > > > > > > > > > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. > > > > > > It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. > > > > > > The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. > > > > > > So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. > > > > > > > > > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be. > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway. Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region. All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > > > > > > > > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > > > > > > > > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. > > > > > > > > It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. > > > > > > > > The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. > > > > > > > > So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be. > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. > > Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway. > > Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region. > > All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward. I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75? No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling. Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it. That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad. > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community. > > > > > > > > > > It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards. > > > > > > > > > > So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't. > > > > Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same. > > > > > > > > Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again. > > > > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be. > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > > > > The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system. > > > > > > > > Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be. > > > > > > Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained. > > > It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function. > > > > > > When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters. > > > > Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway. > > > > Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region. > > > > All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward. > > I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar > > Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75? > No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling. > > Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it. > That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem. > > Except raid are considered by anet as exclusive content and by design are no meant for everyone. That means, raids should not halt anyone's progression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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