A "don't waypoint when dead" fee?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Just don't rez them. They'll lose event participation or won't be able to get the chest/

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> You are joking right? Yes there are reasons like for example "I want to leech" and this exactly what this post is about, a way to reduce or eliminate leechers.

> What I don't understand is why all this defense of leechers around here? Why is it "unfair" to penalize a leecher for not using a waypoint but it's fair for the leecher to leech?

 

They don't do it to leech.

[Zeefa.3915]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Zeefa.3915 said:

> > We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

>

> They can deal with all those reasons at a waypoint and not in a fight. Not taking the 10 seconds to go to a waypoint is also lazy. And even if they have reasons like that, they are STILL leeching. And automatically porting them to a waypoint solves the problem anyway, how is it "punishment"?

>

 

Depending on the location it may be more than just "10 seconds". Also I only agree that asking for people to wp is ok at **some** events. It is **not** always the solution, in every situation.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> Just don't rez them. They'll lose event participation or won't be able to get the chest/

 

Unfortunately the timer for event participation is way too high, and for good reason. I think making the timer way lower when someone is dead is the best way to go.

 

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> They don't do it to leech.

 

There is no other reason though.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> Pay me 1000g or delete your account. Hey, you have a choice, so clearly it is all optional.

 

That doesn't seem like a reasonable choice. What's the basis behind that gameplay mechanic?

 

> @Zeefa.3915 said:

> I do agree that people should learn to use nearest wp if possible at **some** events. But I think this idea of a fee or even teleport to nearest wp is horrible. Especially since you are saying this would not be limited to certain events like worldbosses, but everywhere.

 

Why do you believe it would be "horrible?" If another player does not rez you, then you would have no option but to WP anyway. Where is the harm in speeding up that process?

 

>We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

 

But the worst that could happen without their intervention is that they are returned to the nearest WP, which is what their option would have been under the current system unless someone happened to rez them. It's not a "punishment."

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Zeefa.3915 said:

> Depending on the location it may be more than just "10 seconds". Also I only agree that asking for people to wp is ok at **some** events. It is **not** always the solution, in every situation.

 

Opening your map, getting to a waypoint, and clicking on it should take about the same amount of time regardless of the map you are on.

Of course it depends on the event, a random event, even a group event won't be affected by a dead player, and in that case chances are you will get a revive anyway.

World bosses are the real the problem, or other legendary boss fights, especially time sensitive fights.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Auto teleport in core maps and maybe even HoT maps seems okay to me. But in PoF it often means teleporting half across the map. Thanks alot I would say to that. This just means that Auto teleport can be very punishing in one occasion, and not punishing at all in another. It won't ever be an equal situation where in one case someone might just have a bad connection dies, doesn't completely go offline for the next 5 minutes, then recovers and finds himself at a completely different place. It's a bit of a stretch example I suppose, but if you're going to automatically move players, that is going to be hell annoying.

 

A more clear indication between a downed and a defeated person with proper prioritization and not counting defeated players as participants for scaling, really should be enough. I can't imagine a situation where an event cannot be done because there's defeated players on the ground that want to wait the event out rather than to waypoint. Especially in PoF maps I found myself defeated doubting between waypointing and maybe just waiting that extra minute because that would be the time to get back to where I was anyway.

 

I don't see this being a good idea at all. Especially because it really is only annoying in a very very few occasions.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> It's a terrible idea to tax players for playing the game in a way you don't like.

 

This is causing a problem for other people in the group so your comment does not apply. Next!

[Carighan.6758]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side?

 

Yep. Just make it so that **staying** dead aggressively removes participation. Including a warning, like the PvP going-to-be-kicked warnings. But if you release, you're fine even if you are still far away and take a while to run back. Normal participation-decay.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Carighan.6758 said:

> > @Healix.5819 said:

> > For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side?

>

> Yep. Just make it so that **staying** dead aggressively removes participation. Including a warning, like the PvP going-to-be-kicked warnings. But if you release, you're fine even if you are still far away and take a while to run back. Normal participation-decay.

 

Best solution really

[Menadena.7482]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

> >

> > So waiting for a revive instead of running back is **playing** the game?

> >

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > It's a terrible idea to tax players for **playing** the game in a way you don't like.

> >

> >

>

> So you **know** what every other person perceives as playing.

> besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

 

In my years of this game I have yet to see that happen once. If someone is dirtnapping and a group moves into the nearby area (especially with nothing going on yet) at least one person will revive them.

[CharterforGw.3149]

> @Menadena.7482 said:

> > @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

> > >

> > > So waiting for a revive instead of running back is **playing** the game?

> > >

> > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > It's a terrible idea to tax players for **playing** the game in a way you don't like.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So you **know** what every other person perceives as playing.

> > besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

>

> In my years of this game I have yet to see that happen once. If someone is dirtnapping and a group moves into the nearby area (especially with nothing going on yet) at least one person will revive them.

 

I'm not saying it's common, I myself only saw it once, at the teq fight, dead person at the spot where roughly teq tail would be. nobody went to rezz the person

[Taygus.4571]

Easiest option.. i think. ..would be after 30 seconds or 60 whatever of being dead . Game automatically rezzes you at the nearest wp.

 

[Danikat.8537]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side?

 

I think this would be a much better solution. It serves the same purpose as the OPs suggestion by giving people who die during an event/boss fight an incentive to WP and get themselves back into the fight quickly rather than lying on the floor hoping someone will stop what they're doing to revive them.

 

But it has the added benefit that it doesn't affect people in other situations - if you die during a jumping puzzle for example. You lying dead on the floor has absolutely no impact on anyone else around you and going to a waypoint could be hugely inconvenient because it means you have to start the entire puzzle over again. (Waiting for someone to help is risky too, because there may not be anyone else doing the puzzle, but at least now you can wait and see.)

 

The only change I'd suggest is that a warning should come up when you die so people know they have 30 seconds to WP before they lose participation. The way it works currently you don't find out until it's too late to do anything about it.

[Dashiva.6149]

I think the biggest issue for me is that there is no easy differation between defeated and downed players, which can cause trouble on the battlefield if I am stuck in place for long.

 

It is _their_ choice if they WP or not, whatever the reason might be, just as it is _everyones_ choice to take the time to ress them. Sure someone might spam chat sometimes and rudely demand a resurrect (which I personally always ignore), but other than that it is such a minor thing that I am not really bothered with it.

[Danikat.8537]

> @Dashiva.6149 said:

> I think the biggest issue for me is that there is no easy differation between defeated and downed players, which can cause trouble on the battlefield if I am stuck in place for long.

>

> It is _their_ choice if they WP or not, whatever the reason might be, just as it is _everyones_ choice to take the time to ress them. Sure someone might spam chat sometimes and rudely demand a resurrect (which I personally always ignore), but other than that it is such a minor thing that I am not really bothered with it.

 

That would be really helpful too. Sometimes it's hard to tell - for example the candy corn boss in the Lab usually knocks people down at the same time as putting them into downed/defeated state. So even if they're only downed they're lying flat on the floor for several seconds unable to use their downed skills, which makes them look dead.

 

The map icons are different but in a busy situation like that with event markings, probably a commander tag, door icon/s, maybe a candy node...it's hard to spot the map icons. Something like a distinct symbol over the players head would be very helpful. (I was going to suggest a different colour, but that's no help for colourblind people.)

[CharterforGw.3149]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> > If someone likes to lay on the ground dead, it's their choice to consider it playing or not. I personally wouldn't call it that. but they might.

>

> I don't even know what you are saying here. It's someone's choice to consider **playing** lying on the floor?

> It's not **playing** in any way because you are actively doing anything other than leeching and waiting to get your rewards.

> And not only it's not **playing** in any form, but it's also rude and inconsiderate to the other players that are finishing the event while the dead are afking on the floor.

> What's next? Players rushing to a big event, commit suicide and then go for a coffee while the others finish it.

 

Okay, lets approach from your point of view. they aren't playing, they went afk for whatever reason. I feel we strayed off from the original subject

someone being dead, what impact has that for you?

 

The "F to rezz" notification being annoying?

Them leeching? That doesn't impact you in anyway, it just feels like they cheat. which I can understand, that's also why (if you read all my previous comments)

I mentioned that a tax would be a bad idea, and a loss of participation would be a better solution (and one of the commentors stated this is already the case)

 

Someone else mentioned that they still scale up the event even with dead people (which to be fair isn't to much of an impact when it's only a few dead people).

But either way if this is the case (we need confirmation on this) it should be addressed in a different way than "taxing" them

[TexZero.7910]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> Someone else mentioned that they still scale up the event even with dead people (which to be fair isn't to much of an impact when it's only a few dead people).

> But either way if this is the case (we need confirmation on this) it should be addressed in a different way than "taxing" them

 

They don't. There was even a sticky saying as much on the old forums.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

a loss of participation would be a better solution (and one of the commentors stated this is already the case)

 

Yes it's a better solution I also said so. And no it's not already the case, it takes way too long to lose your participation, longer than the duration of any event so in that case it's pointless. Making a dead person lose participation in 20-30 seconds would make it so those who afk on the floor miss their rewards but without an extra penalty. If they use a waypoint, normal decay applies once again.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I can't help but think that a dead tax will just make more people use PTV gear and demand healers.

 

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> There is no other reason though.

 

They want to be rezzed, obviously. That or there was a connection issue, or there was an IRL issue that demanded immediate attention.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> They want to be rezzed, obviously.

 

So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive.

 

> That or there was a connection issue, or there was an IRL issue that demanded immediate attention.

 

If they got an IRL issue they can always port before dealing with it, it only takes a couple of seconds to click on the waypoint when you are dead. This is more like an excuse now, "Oh I got an IRL issue just at the moment I was killed". And besides that would be fair if one or two players got dead and afked on the floor, but you see masses do it, so this entire argument is off the window.

 

 

[CharterforGw.3149]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> Yes it's a better solution I also said so. And no it's not already the case, it takes way too long to lose your participation, longer than the duration of any event so in that case it's pointless. Making a dead person lose participation in 20-30 seconds would make it so those who afk on the floor miss their rewards but without an extra penalty. If they use a waypoint, normal decay applies once again.

 

That's what I "sort of" said in my first comment, I actually think the faster participation loss when dead would probably be a good incentive.

We were in the wrong thread when we started arguing about wheter or not being dead is part of playing the game or not.

 

I've gotten the feeling some people might think i'm against any form of "penalizing" inactive particiption.

[Healix.5819]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> Someone else mentioned that they still scale up the event even with dead people (which to be fair isn't to much of an impact when it's only a few dead people).

> But either way if this is the case (we need confirmation on this) it should be addressed in a different way than "taxing" them

 

Originally, scaling only factored players that were actively participating, which allowed larger groups to quickly kill bosses before they could actually scale. This became an obvious problem during season 1, since the content was temporary and thus always zerged. To fix that problem, they changed scaling to simply factor everyone within the area. Scaling was tested ~2 years ago, which confirmed dead players scaled events.

[Walhalla.5473]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

>

> Someone else mentioned that they still scale up the event even with dead people (which to be fair isn't to much of an impact when it's only a few dead people).

> But either way if this is the case (we need confirmation on this) it should be addressed in a different way than "taxing" them

 

Its something that was confirmed 2-3 years ago and back then a few people using or not using the WP could make the difference between success and fail ( I saw quite a lot events that fail at like 5% where you had around 5 people lying there for quite a good time and could have been a success if those people used the WP ). Even today you can have events that fail due to the event being overscaled thanks to players not using the Waypoint when they are dead. People just lying dead are a detriment to the rest of the players since they make the event harder than it should be.

[sephiroth.4217]

Someone dies but because you lived it means they should forfi> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > Just don't rez them. They'll lose event participation or won't be able to get the chest/

>

> Unfortunately the timer for event participation is way too high, and for good reason. I think making the timer way lower when someone is dead is the best way to go.

>

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > They don't do it to leech.

>

> There is no other reason though.

 

It's called dying, just rez the poor guy because he's probably new or he's probably just rezzed 12 people and went down doing so. (latter happens to me quite a bit, rez people up and go down in the process and get told by the guy I rezzed to "just wp")