List of reasons why I'm not a big fan of Weaver

[Conqueror.3682]

sword final chain in their autoattacks are better than the dagger ones.

 

Also, sword second and third skills (the fully attuned and the dual skills) are by far superior to main dagger ones.

 

And i think that unravel will be a taker for pvp and wvw, to fast access to defensive focus or dagger skills. I dont see this problem for pve tough, you can premptively have your main attunement ready for a moment where you need a defensive skill. Anyways, weaver has 2 good defensive evades (water 2 and earth 2) in sword.

 

what i dont like is that barrier feels low and unravel hexes should be fixed to remove all conditions, i dont want to spec in water again!

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Some nerd will find out a highly complex rotation which destroys all other classes dps wise :wink:

[BigEvs.6971]

From what gamemode perspective are you making these claims? Especially from what you said about stances. That stun break is one of the lowest CD stun breaks we've ever had available to us AND it packs an evade with superspeed. It's one of the best get-out-of-jail-free cards in this game. The Primordial Stance isn't too shabby either, but I'd have to wait and see until the bugs on it are fixed (it apparently dealt too much damage on the beta weekend).

 

To me the flaws of this spec pale in comparison to Tempest's. It just feels like the devs were much more inspired making the Weaver.

[Kaizoku.1298]

Unravel has to be changed to F5.

[Razor.6392]

> @BigEvs.6971 said:

> From what gamemode perspective are you making these claims? Especially from what you said about stances. That stun break is one of the lowest CD stun breaks we've ever had available to us AND it packs an evade with superspeed. It's one of the best get-out-of-jail-free cards in this game. The Primordial Stance isn't too shabby either, but I'd have to wait and see until the bugs on it are fixed (it apparently dealt too much damage on the beta weekend).

>

> To me the flaws of this spec pale in comparison to Tempest's. It just feels like the devs were much more inspired making the Weaver.

 

Signet of Air says hi.

 

Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

 

Game mode perspective is pvp. Where I honestly believe Weaver will be very low tier.

[Ashabhi.1365]

I have a couple of observations from my time as a Weaver..

 

First, the good:

1. Although your elements are on a cooldown when you switch, it seems to be a shorter cooldown than what we have presently. So, if I wanted to change from Fire to Air and back to Fire as it is now, there's many times I am kind of stuck just waiting for the cooldown. With Weaver, I can switch to Fire, pop Air, go back and hit a Fire skill and by the time I am ready to switch attunements again, the cooldown is gone.

2. It is incredibly easy to go single element and have access to all the skills on a core Ele. Especially with staff, since some of the skill rotations "weave" into the elemental coolldown.

3. What you lose in overload, we gain in flexibility. The target of your agrression literally doesn't know what you're going to do next. You can go from Air/Earth to Fire/Air to pure Fire and then launch into Water/Fire or something else. Potentially, your target could be melted before they have a chance to decide what kind of damage they will have to mitigate. This, in and of itself will most likely cause Staff Weaver to be nerfed into oblivion very soon after PoF launching.

 

The Bad:

1. If your fingers can't move fast enough to grant the exact skills you want to use, Weaver may not be for you. If playing an Engineer is compared to playing a piano, it's like playing chopsticks compared to playing the Chopin of the Weaver.

2. Sword skills were truly unremarkable in my testing. For a build to be effective, you have to spec enough power and ferocity that you are truly as squishy as a sponge when you're up close and personal. It definitely needs attention.

3. Since Skill 3 (combined element) is different for each pairing, learning which Skill 3 goes with which type of weaving is going to be a massive pain in the kitten. Not knowing which one is useable in which situation is going to turn people off if they think they're going to be able to simply spec Weaver and run with it.

 

Is Weaver going to be for me? I certainly hope so. It remains to be seen what they do to it after PoF launches.

[Patty.3268]

I wonder why some people say you need a Guitar Hero controller to play Weaver (or something along that line). I agree that you will be switchting attunements more often than you do on Tempest, but unless you spam Overloads and get stuck in one attunement at some point, the difference is not that much. And due to the ICD of 4 seconds when playing Weaver, you will be switching attunements as often as you do on base Ele, maybe a slight bit less. And even if you would switch more often on Weaver, you'd still only have 10 skills available at the same time. Engi has 15 available at the same time, so I'm especially confused why someone would say that Weaver is more like playing a piano than Engi is - especially when you use some Kits on Engi. Am I missing something?

[mygamingid.5816]

> @Patty.3268 said:

> I wonder why some people say you need a Guitar Hero controller to play Weaver (or something along that line). I agree that you will be switchting attunements more often than you do on Tempest, but unless you spam Overloads and get stuck in one attunement at some point, the difference is not that much. And due to the ICD of 4 seconds when playing Weaver, you will be switching attunements as often as you do on base Ele, maybe a slight bit less. And even if you would switch more often on Weaver, you'd still only have 10 skills available at the same time. Engi has 15 available at the same time, so I'm especially confused why someone would say that Weaver is more like playing a piano than Engi is - especially when you use some Kits on Engi. Am I missing something?

 

**Reaction**: Without Weaver, you can attune and hit the weapon skill instantly, allowing the Ele to react quickly with a wide range of skills. With Weaver, you'll need at least 4s to get to any 3-5 weapon skill. That's a hefty delay in the reaction time and a commitment to a 1-3 weapon skill that you may not want during that wait.

 

**Rotation**: You'll have essentially the same cooldown on weapon skills as Tempest, but you won't have the Overloads available (they're Tempest-only). This means more gap-filling with weaker attacks or finding a way to get to viable attacks in another attunement. If you leave your primary attunement, it'll be 8s before you can single-attune to it again. Anything not in the rotation's script creates a 4s-8s penalty.

 

**Keystrokes**: If you're hitting F1-F4 trying to get to an attunement, you're probably losing some amount of time that you could've been attacking. A little bit here and a little bit there adds up over time. It also means more missed keys and derailed rotations. Minimize keystrokes to maximize consistency.

 

**Engi**: The Engi rotation is a nightmare. Emulating it in any way is not a good thing.

[Patty.3268]

> @mygamingid.5816 said:

> **Reaction**: Without Weaver, you can attune and hit the weapon skill instantly, allowing the Ele to react quickly with a wide range of skills. With Weaver, you'll need at least 4s to get to any 3-5 weapon skill. That's a hefty delay in the reaction time and a commitment to a 1-3 weapon skill that you may not want during that wait.

>

> **Rotation**: You'll have essentially the same cooldown on weapon skills as Tempest, but you won't have the Overloads available (they're Tempest-only). This means more gap-filling with weaker attacks or finding a way to get to viable attacks in another attunement. If you leave your primary attunement, it'll be 8s before you can single-attune to it again. Anything not in the rotation's script creates a 4s-8s penalty.

 

I agree with both points, but they don't lead to any more button pressing. You just need to plan more ahead. Basically you need to plan your next two attunements instead of your next one when playing base Ele or Tempest. THIS will increase Weaver's complexity when compared to other classes and elite specs, not the number of buttons you need to play it, like some people seem to think.

 

> @mygamingid.5816 said:

> **Keystrokes**: If you're hitting F1-F4 trying to get to an attunement, you're probably losing some amount of time that you could've been attacking. A little bit here and a little bit there adds up over time. It also means more missed keys and derailed rotations. Minimize keystrokes to maximize consistency.

 

This can also be said about Tempest and base Ele, as they also require you to swap attunements. Tempest a bit less often than Weaver, base Ele a bit more. Which also made me wonder why some people thought Weaver requires that much more button pressing than Ele, Tempest or even Engi.

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Patty.3268 said:

> This can also be said about Tempest and base Ele, as they also require you to swap attunements. Tempest a bit less often than Weaver, base Ele a bit more. Which also made me wonder why some people thought Weaver requires that much more button pressing than Ele, Tempest or even Engi.

 

The amount of button pushing entirely depends on what you're trying to do, of course, but it's fair to argue that the Weaver requires twice as many presses to move a new element into the Offhand slot than the other two types, and twice as many presses to fully cycle through the elements from, say, fire fire back to fire fire, if you pass through all other possibilities. I think that's a fair measure to say that it requires more button presses to get where you want to go, although certainly if you base your rotations around how weaver functions you can probably get by pressing less often.

 

Still, I would far prefer some method of manually determining whether a new element goes to the main or offhand slots, rather than using a FILO system.

 

[Patty.3268]

Yes, if you want access to a specific 3-5 skill, it takes you longer to get there and also an additional button press. Should have maybe said that, but I was purely looking at the number of button presses over time, which is roughly the same as with Tempest and base Ele.

[Jski.6180]

The chain attk seems very odd for something that is not made to sit in an atument for long. It would be more of a thing for tempest where they should sit in an atument for at least 5 sec giving you more then enofe time to land the full combo. Its odd sword feel more like an support wepon too. So tempest should have the main hand sword and weaver should have the off hand wh (mind you it would have to be moded to be more of an melee wepon.)

 

The burst skills are a weird mix some of them have a lot of effects on them others feel more tacked on.

 

Barrier should be this class. Every thing it dose as a class give it barrier so it should get more effects from the barrier it self making it fill that roll of mages with low hp but high shields. Effects like +7% dmg when you have swiftness seems odd like it was just a random boon chosen as an effect for the class it should be barrier that giving the higher dmg as well as lasting longer if build for it then the 2 sec. I would love to see barrier make the weaver take less dmg condi and phical have -% condi duration (over all fixing the condi problem on weaver) do higher dmg when you have it up and have a 3-5 sec fall off time of barrier. Most then likely due to weaver low vit you will not have a lot of barrier to work with so its not a big deal to rip though it but if you dont vs a weaver you should feel the effect of it.

Superior Elements should give you high crit chase/ dmg when you have a barrier up.

Weaver's Prowess needs to give you more condi dmg / condi duration when you have barrier up.

Invigorating Strikes needs to be a blunt dmg -% both condi and phical dmg taken and longer barrier duration when you have barrier up.

Or something like that.

 

I come to the conclusion that Firebrand maybe closer to a real mages ele then ele has ever been. Base mages with its wepon effects but is able to use atuments (the 3 books) to get temp. added skills on a use cd. In a way Firebrand is a wizard of gw2 not ele sadly.

[Lonami.2987]

I think weaver is a book case of "more is less".

 

And yeah, unravel (or hand flip) needs to be available at F5, and not a slot skill.

[BigEvs.6971]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @BigEvs.6971 said:

> > From what gamemode perspective are you making these claims? Especially from what you said about stances. That stun break is one of the lowest CD stun breaks we've ever had available to us AND it packs an evade with superspeed. It's one of the best get-out-of-jail-free cards in this game. The Primordial Stance isn't too shabby either, but I'd have to wait and see until the bugs on it are fixed (it apparently dealt too much damage on the beta weekend).

> >

> > To me the flaws of this spec pale in comparison to Tempest's. It just feels like the devs were much more inspired making the Weaver.

>

> Signet of Air says hi.

>

> Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

>

> Game mode perspective is pvp. Where I honestly believe Weaver will be very low tier.

 

 

 

Fine, the cd remark was based off of outdated info (we've had glacier tier cds on stunbreaks until fairly recently), but twist of fate is still a fantastic addition.

 

Armor of Earth will become a liability into some comps packing boon hate.

 

Mist form prevents capture point contribution.

 

Glyph of elemental power could compete if you're looking for a damage-y condi glyph build, but imo it's a tough sell.

 

Arcane shield is already unreliable with the amount of unblockable key offensives in this game.

 

Gale Song has good potential team utility, but has apparently never been good enough to be meta in the years after HoT released in PvP.

 

The overall point being that Twist of Fate is far better than you give it credit for.

 

It's an evade that we can pile on top of the copious evades we get from sword (or d/d if that's your taste). The Ammo system DOES actually make it something special. You essentially get to decide what kind of cooldown it has in how you distribute these evades. You don't even need to press it that often if you're comfortable with your sword (or d/d if that's your style) evades. It's "Just an evade" that's longer duration than RFI and offers far better control of your position which is important as a point holder. Also have fun grabbing signet of air purely for the stunbreak I guess.

 

Personally I found that weaver didn't have much trouble with anything 1v1 besides scourge (in addition to breaking even against spellbreakers). It has potential as a side point skirmisher. Give it some more time/practice and I think your opinion of the spec will improve.

 

[lLobo.7960]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Signet of Air says hi.

>

> Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

 

The stance has a 40s charge recharge, with 2 charges... So in average you can use it every 20s. Or you can have 2 stunbreaks on a 40s recharge...

Signet of Air is about 25s, lower with trait...

[Razor.6392]

> @BigEvs.6971 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @BigEvs.6971 said:

> > > From what gamemode perspective are you making these claims? Especially from what you said about stances. That stun break is one of the lowest CD stun breaks we've ever had available to us AND it packs an evade with superspeed. It's one of the best get-out-of-jail-free cards in this game. The Primordial Stance isn't too shabby either, but I'd have to wait and see until the bugs on it are fixed (it apparently dealt too much damage on the beta weekend).

> > >

> > > To me the flaws of this spec pale in comparison to Tempest's. It just feels like the devs were much more inspired making the Weaver.

> >

> > Signet of Air says hi.

> >

> > Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

> >

> > Game mode perspective is pvp. Where I honestly believe Weaver will be very low tier.

>

>

>

> Fine, the cd remark was based off of outdated info (we've had glacier tier cds on stunbreaks until fairly recently), but twist of fate is still a fantastic addition.

>

> Armor of Earth will become a liability into some comps packing boon hate.

>

> Mist form prevents capture point contribution.

>

> Glyph of elemental power could compete if you're looking for a damage-y condi glyph build, but imo it's a tough sell.

>

> Arcane shield is already unreliable with the amount of unblockable key offensives in this game.

>

> Gale Song has good potential team utility, but has apparently never been good enough to be meta in the years after HoT released in PvP.

>

> The overall point being that Twist of Fate is far better than you give it credit for.

>

> It's an evade that we can pile on top of the copious evades we get from sword (or d/d if that's your taste). The Ammo system DOES actually make it something special. You essentially get to decide what kind of cooldown it has in how you distribute these evades. You don't even need to press it that often if you're comfortable with your sword (or d/d if that's your style) evades. It's "Just an evade" that's longer duration than RFI and offers far better control of your position which is important as a point holder. Also have fun grabbing signet of air purely for the stunbreak I guess.

>

> Personally I found that weaver didn't have much trouble with anything 1v1 besides scourge (in addition to breaking even against spellbreakers). It has potential as a side point skirmisher. Give it some more time/practice and I think your opinion of the spec will improve.

>

 

I mean, eye of the storm is basically the same. stun break and superspeed.

 

I think you're overvaluing a single evade vs blocks, stab, invuln and a blind. I could also bring up the one situational thing that beats evades such as DH pull and rings but that wouldn't really be fair.

 

We'll see I guess.

[Razor.6392]

> @lLobo.7960 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Signet of Air says hi.

> >

> > Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

>

> The stance has a 40s charge recharge, with 2 charges... So in average you can use it every 20s. Or you can have 2 stunbreaks on a 40s recharge...

> Signet of Air is about 25s, lower with trait...

 

I don't think that's how it works. Both charges are not refunded at once, if it is anything like Arcane blast.

 

If you use both immediately, you'd have to wait 80 seconds until both are available.

[Einlanzer.1627]

No comment on the other points, but I like that Sword has an AA; it gives Eles a way to feel like a fighter-mage. It's not like you have to use Sword with Weaver. I'll likely run with staff or scepter a lot.

[Esquilax.3491]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @lLobo.7960 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > Signet of Air says hi.

> > >

> > > Also, lol. It has a count recharge of 40 SECONDS. That's the same as Arcane shield and traited Armor of Earth. How is this anywhere close to lowest CD? Only Mist Form has a higher cd. I know it's ammo system but it's still nothing special, just an evade like Roll for Initiative except the only thing it has going is a 1.5sec superspeed boost.

> >

> > The stance has a 40s charge recharge, with 2 charges... So in average you can use it every 20s. Or you can have 2 stunbreaks on a 40s recharge...

> > Signet of Air is about 25s, lower with trait...

>

> I don't think that's how it works. Both charges are not refunded at once, if it is anything like Arcane blast.

>

> If you use both immediately, you'd have to wait 80 seconds until both are available.

 

Yeah it would go like this:

skill > 20s > skill > 20s then (skill > 40s)*repeat

Or

skill then (skill > 40s)*repeat

 

Both scenarios.

 

40s cooldown is a 40s cooldown, only thing a charge adds is a "backup" of the skill, which once expended must be recharged ontop of the base.

[dtox.8397]

> @Ashabhi.1365 said:

 

> Potentially, your target could be melted before they have a chance to decide what kind of damage they will have to mitigate. This, in and of itself will most likely cause Staff Weaver to be nerfed into oblivion very soon after PoF launching.

 

I felt Staff weaver very weak. You need all those third skills from pure elements for survival, and most of the dual attacks i wouldnt bother casting ( like monsoon). With all that GCD you cant combo quick enough(rotate) in order to CC to do dmg and run for your life cuz a thief is chasing you

 

 

[BigEvs.6971]

> @Razor.6392 said:

 

>

> I mean, eye of the storm is basically the same. stun break and superspeed.

>

> I think you're overvaluing a single evade vs blocks, stab, invuln and a blind. I could also bring up the one situational thing that beats evades such as DH pull and rings but that wouldn't really be fair.

>

> We'll see I guess.

 

It's really not basically the same. Eye of the Storm is a good concept in team utility and probably the only tempest utility that I liked, but it was never very widely used in pvp for a reason. How many combos in this game require a CC -> Cleave/Burst interaction? Too many to count. Blocks aren't gonna save you vs. either of those DH mechanics either, in fact the pull is specifically unblockable as are MANY meta skills such as corrupt boon, necro staff marks, basi venom (competes with impact strike depending on other factors but it's close enough to be an example imo). Invulns are okay, but we have one on focus anyway and they're very costly get-out-of-jail-free cards in that you'll simply lose the point relying on them. Blinds are good, but mostly only if you can spam them like a d/p thief (relative to other classes) or combine them with other defensive mechanics like guardian can.

 

Furthermore, an evade is the better option vs. a guardian pull anyway. Just dodge it with that long evade in sword water, or that long evade in sword earth, or with an actual dodge! Or if you can't do that, use the stunbreak + evade AGAIN after getting pulled because the DH is probably using this CC to burst you.

 

Evades are the most reliable and consistently useful defensive mechanic in this game, which is why Thief's Acrobatics line received a huge nerfing fairly recently.

 

Invulns are better against things like ring, that's about it. Beyond that, you still have so much control over your movement during Twist of Fate's evade that you really shouldn't be running straight into a ring.

 

Maybe I'm overvaluing evades in a vacuum, but definitely not relative to other defensive mechanics.