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[Feanor.2358]

> @Talindra.4958 said:

> g1 chrono dps dps dps

> g2 chrono dps dps dps

> g3 druid

> g4 cps

 

I'd say ditch 1 dps for an extra healer (probably in g5). Aura tempest for instance. It will allow a lot more mistakes to be made and make the run a lot smoother than slotting an extra dps. Ventari rev is also a possibility, especially if you find you might lacking.

[meeflak.9714]

Alot of suggestions assume 1healer, I'm pretty sure two healers will be pretty standard, 2druids. 1druid1tempest. 1druid1rev. Whatever it will be.

 

What am I missing with all the one healer suggestions I've seen. I'm pretty sure pugs will still run two healers

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

> >

> > There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

> >

> > Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

> >

> >

>

> Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

 

And not just that, you can't really replace banners and empower allies, so there will always be at least one warrior.

[Evolute.6239]

Pugs will run two healers and likely should, but you can just run a rene or tempest now instead of 2 druids if you want. You can effectively solo heal as a harrier druid without much issue though. It's still more healing than the previous 2 condi druids could offer in coordinated comps.

 

Basically, it's flexible. Which is a large upgrade over 2/2/2 mirror.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

> >

> > There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

> >

> > Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

> >

> >

>

> Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

 

Nah, Druid can apply 16 seconds might, reaches 25 stacks alone on 10 people. With alacrity you have around 9 seconds between CA cooldown and might running out. Fill the rest with other skills. PS warriors are not good anymore. Just take a DPS warrior with 2 banners.

[Mikeskies.1536]

> @Miellyn.6847 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > > No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

> > >

> > > There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

> > >

> > > Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

>

> Nah, Druid can apply 16 seconds might, reaches 25 stacks alone on 10 people. With alacrity you have around 9 seconds between CA cooldown and might running out. Fill the rest with other skills. PS warriors are not good anymore. Just take a DPS warrior with 2 banners.

 

Condi DPS warrior is strong and can supplement might if need be.

[apharma.3741]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> Alot of suggestions assume 1healer, I'm pretty sure two healers will be pretty standard, 2druids. 1druid1tempest. 1druid1rev. Whatever it will be.

>

> What am I missing with all the one healer suggestions I've seen. I'm pretty sure pugs will still run two healers

 

1 healer ele can not just carry through a raid, it will completely cake walk you through it minus one shots or almost one shot mechanics. Even then with the changes to geyser they can AoE Rez incredibly well. Did Matthias yesterday on healer tempest the other healer died and so did 2 others to a ghost/fire tornado or some one shot that no healer can make up for but I could keep the other raid members not only healthy but with scholar buff. There’s a lot of healers that put out much more healing than druids it’s just not as bursts and for a long time they didn’t have the unique 10% damage buff of GotL.

[apharma.3741]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

> > > >

> > > > New boss speedclears incomming.

> > >

> > > it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast

> > > there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

> >

> > Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

> >

> > For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

> >

> > I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

>

> gor / vg , cm samg , rather than those , i think most thing can be done with aegis spam .in some cases it might be even more reliable than distortion .you don't need 2 chrono for sloth shake , and fear can be block or cover with resistance . well you can't fully block matt attack but aegis spam seems good enough to me . kc is bit tricky since aura dmg is blockable i remember .

> i don't think firebrand + rev is good at carin but who knows . on MO and deimos they can be really good

 

Yeah I know there’s other options and I do like aegis as well as how much firebrands can poop it out, same with stab, in fact they would help weavers hit those high numbers much better if they can ignore a hit or CC. I was personally thinking if you could run 2 support firebrand for the quickness, heals, stab resistance and everything their kit brings you would then only need a source of alacrity and fill the rest with DPS and might stackers. If for some reason your raid group doesn’t benefit from alacrity (or the benefit of alacrity is outweighed by having another dps instead) then you could run firebrands, a might stacker or two and everyone else dps. Considering GotL can now theoretically keep 25 might on 10 people you could have a druid as your might stacker for even more carry and DPS warrior which still tops people up with might every now and then, 7 DPS team possibly.

 

Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

[Rising Dusk.2408]

> @Talindra.4958 said:

> g1 chrono dps dps dps

> g2 chrono dps dps dps

> g3 druid

> g4 cps

You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

[Mikeskies.1536]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > @Talindra.4958 said:

> > g1 chrono dps dps dps

> > g2 chrono dps dps dps

> > g3 druid

> > g4 cps

> You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

 

My guess is;

1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS

2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer

*Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.

**Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

[Rising Dusk.2408]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> My guess is;

> 1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS

> 2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer

> *Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.

> **Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

If you're running a Druid there's no reason for it to not take the spirits (especially since they'll be traited). The only time the Soulbeast would run a spirit is if your group wants protection from Stone Spirit on the Druid, in which case you'd have the Soulbeast take Sun Spirit.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > > @Talindra.4958 said:

> > > g1 chrono dps dps dps

> > > g2 chrono dps dps dps

> > > g3 druid

> > > g4 cps

> > You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

>

> My guess is;

> 1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS

> 2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer

> *Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.

> **Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

 

The soul beast doesn’t strictly need to bring a spirit either so can simply be soul beast dps so that comp would be 6 dps, 7 if you count the berserker and if the chrono runs minstrels it means that sub group won’t need anything more than splash over heals from the Druid if the Druid goes healer.

[musu.9205]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> > @musu.9205 said:

> > > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > > 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

> > > > >

> > > > > New boss speedclears incomming.

> > > >

> > > > it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast

> > > > there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

> > >

> > > Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

> > >

> > > For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

> > >

> > > I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

> >

> > gor / vg , cm samg , rather than those , i think most thing can be done with aegis spam .in some cases it might be even more reliable than distortion .you don't need 2 chrono for sloth shake , and fear can be block or cover with resistance . well you can't fully block matt attack but aegis spam seems good enough to me . kc is bit tricky since aura dmg is blockable i remember .

> > i don't think firebrand + rev is good at carin but who knows . on MO and deimos they can be really good

>

> Yeah I know there’s other options and I do like aegis as well as how much firebrands can poop it out, same with stab, in fact they would help weavers hit those high numbers much better if they can ignore a hit or CC. I was personally thinking if you could run 2 support firebrand for the quickness, heals, stab resistance and everything their kit brings you would then only need a source of alacrity and fill the rest with DPS and might stackers. If for some reason your raid group doesn’t benefit from alacrity (or the benefit of alacrity is outweighed by having another dps instead) then you could run firebrands, a might stacker or two and everyone else dps. Considering GotL can now theoretically keep 25 might on 10 people you could have a druid as your might stacker for even more carry and DPS warrior which still tops people up with might every now and then, 7 DPS team possibly.

>

> Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

 

i tested rev condi build with highest alacrity uptime . its good with 20k around dps , could be higher but alacrity had some downtime , its much easier to get interrupted if that happens when in other stance without tablet the alacrity could be shit very quickly

[Swiftwynd.1685]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Talindra.4958 said:

> > g1 chrono dps dps dps

> > g2 chrono dps dps dps

> > g3 druid

> > g4 cps

>

> I'd say ditch 1 dps for an extra healer (probably in g5). Aura tempest for instance. It will allow a lot more mistakes to be made and make the run a lot smoother than slotting an extra dps. Ventari rev is also a possibility, especially if you find you might lacking.

 

Even better, a support Scourge if you are even remotely concerned about anything going wrong or want some additional might and regen, and great hps in group. It has the best, fastest, most frequent revives and pulls 5 allies from 600 radius.

[Ranael.6423]

> @LadyKitty.6120 said:

>

> Now that depends on how you build those other classes and how you rotate the might boons. Kitty hasn't had any real issues with such on most classes when she's been trying to turn them into mightbots (and pretty much every class but engi can do that somewhat efficiently).

 

Well Kitty should try harder a build like this one : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelsThatY7WwALQ7FLDGV4B0f/3XAsetnYAeChAA-jxxGQBA4BAcS1fI3JAIN7PoSlgpU5XJ1DQKgA3ZB-e

And this one is the easiest healer/might stacker you can find for engi (harrier works too ofc)...

[LadyKitty.6120]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

 

That would pretty much require someone to do some testing with and without alacrity and also depends on class's auto-attack damage. For a class highly reliant on spamming skills as fast as possible, it might be quite high factor, but for lots of classes and builds...not that much.

 

[zealex.9410]

why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

[meeflak.9714]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

 

Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

 

I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

>

> Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

>

> I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

 

Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

 

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

>

> New boss speedclears incomming.

 

Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

 

The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > @Talindra.4958 said:

> > g1 chrono dps dps dps

> > g2 chrono dps dps dps

> > g3 druid

> > g4 cps

> You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

 

Both druid n war in other group will receive quickness from chrono.

[apharma.3741]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

> >

> > Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

> >

> > I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

>

> Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

>

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

> >

> > New boss speedclears incomming.

>

> Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

>

> The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

 

My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

 

I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

[musu.9205]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > > why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

> > >

> > > Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

> > >

> > > I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

> >

> > Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

> >

> > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

> > >

> > > New boss speedclears incomming.

> >

> > Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

> >

> > The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

>

> My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

>

> I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

 

harrier chrono*

fixed for you

druid might stack is 10 man tho

[Cyninja.2954]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > > > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > > > why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

> > > >

> > > > Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

> > > >

> > > > I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

> > >

> > > Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

> > >

> > > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > 2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

> > > >

> > > > New boss speedclears incomming.

> > >

> > > Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

> > >

> > > The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

> >

> > My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

> >

> > I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

>

> harrier chrono*

> fixed for you

> druid might stack is 10 man tho

 

I think apharma was refering to the tank running minstrel, but yes harrier chrono might be interesting for the 2nd support chrono.

 

If you have:

minstrel chrono - tank and support and healing

harrier chrono - support and healing

harrier druid - might, support and healing

cPS warrior - banners

 

You should have a solid group with enough healing for most encounters to free up 6 dps spots. Obviously you could exchange the 2nd chrono for firebrand and revenant exchanging distortion for more dps. I'm looking forward to see what combos emerge.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @Zlater.6789 said:

> > @LadyKitty.6120 said:

> > For non-distorted runs, Kitty would say either 2 chronos or a rev and firebrand replacing one chrono. 2 healers, 1 DPS warr with banners, some might source and DPSers. Doesn't really matter how those are done as long as people get the alacrity, quickness, might and fury somewhat covered. Ol' good mantra "enough heals, enough support and enough DPS".

>

> Well without a reason for druid, I don't really see us leaning toward a double dedicated healing strategy. Condi soulbeast has 10-man heals now with spirit of water, there are also other options like running jungle stalker for heals, pig for heals and cc. And if they realllllly need, they can run spirit of Nature instead of One Wolf Pack also don't forget nature magic. Mesmers dropping well of eternity here and there, emergency heals from a firebrand or an occasional wash away the pain from Tempest or any ele that swaps to water momentarily..

 

Druid can replace warrior for the Might source though... With the new change to Grace of the land, having a 10 target might source is pretty strong. So i'm guessing it's more of the opposite, PS Warriors go, Druids stay.

[zoomborg.9462]

lets see.... one druid less, on war less...pugs are gonna be wiping cause of lack of cc on matthias/samarog and mb deimos especially if the druid changes one cc pet for tiger (fury). And then druids cannot keep up permanent might unless there's at least 20% boon duration on their build. At least, cause ca recharge is not always fast nor do u always wanna use ca on cooldown. Which means either concentration sigil b4 going into ca or harrier gear.