Mirage and Holosmith damage is over the top.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game.

Ouch :(

 

[killahmayne.9518]

i think all of the people saying holosmith is OP hasn't actually played a holo and they got owned by one so Holo OP.

 

Holos are fairly squishy and easy to burst down. Their abilities have long cast times and animations/huge tells. Holos can't stay melee 100% of the time unless they are being supported, even then, they have to constantly move in and out to avoid being bursted down. Scourges and condi builds will wreck a Holo. 1v1 they probably aren't beating a Mirage or a Spellbreaker.

 

I think they are the most balanced of all specs imo, sure the power creep is a bit too high but that is the same with most other classes.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > I spoke of Thieves' Guild to make the point that even Phantasms are not truly unique to Mesmer. I could have mentioned others.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When Chronomancer was introduced, one of the specialization perks was resistance if memory serves. *Yes, I do think that each profession ought to have something unique. In the case of Mesmer, My class brings nothing to the table that another class cannot replicate to some extent.* Resistance was shared out and severely nerfed on Mesmer because it was allegedly OP. Then Warrior got resistance in spades.

> > > > >

> > > > > Confusion, A.I, (Phantasms), resistance, Mesmer did not do these before other professions.. They're more of a game wide mechanic. You're digging a 2km deep hole searching for reasons why the entire Mesmer profession is obsolete but if you just resurfaced once and a while you'd see it's been in a must have spot since 2015.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps that is so from an ESL/Pro league POV. For the vast majority of players it is not.

> > >

> > > I had no problems doing well with chronomancer until PoF dropped. Again, the problem is you and your stubborn refusal to use effective builds. You have no grounds to complain about balance when you intentionally use inferior builds.

> >

> > ***One of my points is that I should not need to be locked into the latest metabattle bandwagon.*** Balance is poor if only one or two of the possible builds are useful. I protested when ANET simplified the trait system.

> >

> > They seem to be wanting to move toward a video game style setup with one build per class. I think that would be a major error in judgement.**In a balanced game, most possible builds would be useful and roughly equivalent. GW2 has, in my opinion, never really approached that.** The Guild Wars Franchise trades on it's diversity and richness. To destroy that would be to destroy the game.

> >

>

> Then I would quit playing PvP in mmos, mobas or anything that utilizes builds and team organization in a PvP environment because in any game this is going to occur. Meta builds exist because they are optimal, and are the best.

>

> There isn't an mmo where you can freely play what you'd like and be effective vs the meta comps especially in higher level tiers.

>

> You're wanting something that has and never will exist in mmo PvP even without a trinity.

 

Guess you never played GW1 where each class had 3-4 TOP builds for high end PvP

[Cynz.9437]

Anyone else noticed how melee-unfriendly PoF is?

No matter what you play against, in most cases common strategy is: do not stay in melee or get insta-gibbed. That is in conquest - game mode based on standing in circles.

What will happen next? Will Anet give us all mirriad invuls (sup mes) to stay alive in that mess? And then everyone and their mother anti-invuls?

[Vieux P.1238]

I dont get ppl complaining about Mirage & 20k damage from confusion. When ppl get a total of 20k burns & 20k bleeds & 13k poison from scourge in one shot i mean what the hell? Don't get me started with holosmith. Ppl are so use to spam & have a free lunch when it comes to mesmers that god forbids if they have to actually slow down spamming & use skill's. tsk tsk tsk

[Menyus.4610]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > No man it's fine! Holo is balanced (toooons of bad matchups) and mirage takes skill. It fine. It game.

> > >

> > > Try playing a holosmith yourself when the other team has a scourge. See what happens.

> >

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > No man it's fine! Holo is balanced (toooons of bad matchups) and mirage takes skill. It fine. It game.

> > >

> > > Try playing a holosmith yourself when the other team has a scourge. See what happens.

> >

> > Necro was always engi's counter. Even the incredibly powerful cele rifle died to it.

> >

> > Guess that means they're SUPER DUPER MEGA BALANCED GUIZE. Stop the presses, they got one counter, a counter that happens to ALSO decimate every other melee spec in the game. Such balance.

>

> Holo can be beaten by (good) mirages, scourges, other holos, wars, rangers, thieves, dragonhunters, even weavers...

>

> Honestly, everybody can kill me 1v1 if they actually know what they're doing. Some classes are better at it -- IE SB and scourge, but if you know how to time an interrupt or avoid the big hits, you can definitely do a lot against a holo.

 

You are again defeding a spec which can burst down a player while two others are ressing it from the start it gets downed, there is no balance here your class deals so much damage to the point its hurting the game and its palyerbase, its not just slightly op it is basically *****

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @TheDevice.2751 said:

> > Dude reapers have none of the fun kitten holo's have.

> >

> > Holos, Mesmers, Thieves, Wars can all run about with all their mobility rotating like free spirits because the anet devs favor them. Going back and forth between points like its no big deal. No real cooldowns just running about, dealing massive damage in fights, not knowing what being cc'd feels like, shrugging off most condi's passively, etc.

> >

> > Play a reaper. Just try it Anet.

>

> On the other hand, holosmiths don't have 40-60,000 effective health and boon corrupts, so there's still tradeoff. Not saying that reaper is better than holosmith (might be better, might be worse, might be about the same), just that your comparison is significantly one-sided and ignores the reaper's strengths over the holosmith.

 

Reaper is dramatically worse than Holosmith. There are exactly zero use cases where a Reaper would be as effective as a meta Holosmith.

 

Also saying that Reaper has 40-60k effective health is misleading to the extreme. For starters I don't even understand how you're getting 60k unless you seriously think that Reapers are a running Barbarian's amulet with Soul Reaping. (Hint they don't, and most Reapers don't even run Soul Reaping anymore due to how much Reaper's Shroud has been nerfed) It also ignores that Reaper degenerates 1.1k HP per second while in Shroud due to the 5% degeneration, and that heavy degeneration also means that Reaper rarely if ever is able to have maximum Shroud. You're also ignoring that Holosmith has dramatically superior self-healing and disengage which gives Holosmith a edge in self sustain on top of having superior damage output and utility to Reaper.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @TheDevice.2751 said:

> > > Dude reapers have none of the fun kitten holo's have.

> > >

> > > Holos, Mesmers, Thieves, Wars can all run about with all their mobility rotating like free spirits because the anet devs favor them. Going back and forth between points like its no big deal. No real cooldowns just running about, dealing massive damage in fights, not knowing what being cc'd feels like, shrugging off most condi's passively, etc.

> > >

> > > Play a reaper. Just try it Anet.

> >

> > On the other hand, holosmiths don't have 40-60,000 effective health and boon corrupts, so there's still tradeoff. Not saying that reaper is better than holosmith (might be better, might be worse, might be about the same), just that your comparison is significantly one-sided and ignores the reaper's strengths over the holosmith.

>

> Reaper is dramatically worse than Holosmith. There are exactly zero use cases where a Reaper would be as effective as a meta Holosmith.

>

> Also saying that Reaper has 40-60k effective health is misleading to the extreme. For starters I don't even understand how you're getting 60k unless you seriously think that Reapers are a running Barbarian's amulet with Soul Reaping. (Hint they don't, and most Reapers don't even run Soul Reaping anymore due to how much Reaper's Shroud has been nerfed) It also ignores that Reaper degenerates 1.1k HP per second while in Shroud due to the 5% degeneration, and that heavy degeneration also means that Reaper rarely if ever is able to have maximum Shroud. You're also ignoring that Holosmith has dramatically superior self-healing and disengage which gives Holosmith a edge in self sustain on top of having superior damage output and utility to Reaper.

 

I do hope you know that Holosmith only have good sustain when they are actually, ya know, good. They do damage and chain when they understand mechanics like a good player. You play good, you have good damage. You play your class good, anything can look op.

 

The only classes I have seen low rank people do good in is mirage and scourge.

 

Holosmith is a skill based class, that actually requires timing and set-up to burst the cancer classes listed above properly.

 

I actually cannot believe people are trying to mistake good class mechanics and tech, for something being OP. I swear people on these forums man.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Menyus.4610" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > No man it's fine! Holo is balanced (toooons of bad matchups) and mirage takes skill. It fine. It game.

> > > >

> > > > Try playing a holosmith yourself when the other team has a scourge. See what happens.

> > >

> > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > No man it's fine! Holo is balanced (toooons of bad matchups) and mirage takes skill. It fine. It game.

> > > >

> > > > Try playing a holosmith yourself when the other team has a scourge. See what happens.

> > >

> > > Necro was always engi's counter. Even the incredibly powerful cele rifle died to it.

> > >

> > > Guess that means they're SUPER DUPER MEGA BALANCED GUIZE. Stop the presses, they got one counter, a counter that happens to ALSO decimate every other melee spec in the game. Such balance.

> >

> > Holo can be beaten by (good) mirages, scourges, other holos, wars, rangers, thieves, dragonhunters, even weavers...

> >

> > Honestly, everybody can kill me 1v1 if they actually know what they're doing. Some classes are better at it -- IE SB and scourge, but if you know how to time an interrupt or avoid the big hits, you can definitely do a lot against a holo.

>

> You are again defeding a spec which can burst down a player while two others are ressing it from the start it gets downed, there is no balance here your class deals so much damage to the point its hurting the game and its palyerbase, its not just slightly op it is basically *****

 

Wait... your complaint is that it can burst a player who's being rezzed by two people?

 

There are multiple specs that can do that. Holo just happens to be one of them.

[JETWING.2759]

Man. Holosmith needs be finished.

 

* 100% heat bônus doesn't work on exceed skills or some traits like Prismatic Converter and Laser's Edge.

* Sword skill stills underperformed/underpower.

* Too many underperformed traits, like Crystal Configuration Storm, Crystal Configuration Zephyr and others core traits...

* No good heal skill other than Healing Turret.

* Turrets underperformed, near useless(exception is Rifle Turret for Static Discharge Build and aforementioned Healing Turret).

* Gadgets underperformed(exception is Rocket Boots for mobility).

* Rifle and Shield are underperformed.

* etc...

[Smithwicks.8514]

Mirage and Holo in the same sentence, I'm done.

[sephiroth.4217]

Holo build that bursts is a high risk high reward build. it's the CC chain that is over tuned for people not running stability. (atleast in my eyes, I'm bad though.)

 

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @Druh.1092 said:

> > i dont give a kitten what people say holosmith is op when they know how to play they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

>

> They have exactly 3 hard cc skills, including their elite. Also, I really doubt they killed you in one second. What I find really funny is that core mesmer can do a comparable amount of burst damage in an even shorter time frame, from stealth, with less telegraphed skill animations...yet nobody complains about that. Holosmith is new, and you just obviously don't know how to play against it yet. Try one out yourself, that should allow you to get used to its strengths and weaknesses.

 


 

I run berserker ammy, the whole point is to drop someone in 1 second or before you land your full CC chain. The over heat trait hits for 13k+ just on it's own.

But this is why I say high risk high reward, you gotta get the setup to land perfectly because if you don't, any power house build will instagib you at the first mistake you make.

 

Then there's Weakness..... That. Messes. Everything. Up.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> Holo build that bursts is a high risk high reward build. it's the CC chain that is over tuned for people not running stability. (atleast in my eyes, I'm bad though.)

>

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Druh.1092 said:

> > > i dont give a kitten what people say holosmith is op when they know how to play they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

> >

> > They have exactly 3 hard cc skills, including their elite. Also, I really doubt they killed you in one second. What I find really funny is that core mesmer can do a comparable amount of burst damage in an even shorter time frame, from stealth, with less telegraphed skill animations...yet nobody complains about that. Holosmith is new, and you just obviously don't know how to play against it yet. Try one out yourself, that should allow you to get used to its strengths and weaknesses.

>

> I run berserker ammy, the whole point is to drop someone in 1 second or before you land your full CC chain. The over heat trait hits for 13k+ just on it's own.

> But this is why I say high risk high reward, you gotta get the setup to land perfectly because if you don't, any power house build will instagib you at the first mistake you make.

>

> Then there's Weakness..... That. Messes. Everything. Up.

 

Yep. Weakness ruins holo's day. Then again, it ruins every build that relies on crits/power damage.

 

And as people have pointed out... the burst on holo isn't even as strong thief's or mesmer's potential to burst. They just have more staying power when specced appropriately. While there is definite powercreep on the holo, it's not the primary, or even secondary, source of woe in PvP.