How happy are you with the Reaper? (Post 7 Nov 2017 Patch)

[Nash.2681]

From a endgame PvE only PoV:

This goes hand in hand with the scourge nerf lately- totally bullkitten.

Let's bring things in chronological order:

- somewhen back in time, A.Net decides to make condi dmg somewhat relevant (adjusting formulas, adding sinister and viper gear, condi stack increase, etc.)

- out of this, condi did not only become relevant, it turned out to be the superior choice for most endgame encounters

- condi reaper turns out to be somewhat usefull; not optimal, but still an ok'ish choice

- PoF goes live, Scourge evolves and turns out to be the new golden condi class, yet it's designed as a high-risk-high-reward glasscanon, which was ok at first

- Scourge gets nerfed into insignificance; still no defense/reasonable support and also no more reasonable dps

- next update A.Net realizes that condi reaper can still be a thing; still not impressive dps, but at least way more surviveability than scourge...

- ... so condi reaper gets another nerf, while buffing the power aspect which still is laughable meaningless everywhere outside of open world PvE or simple dungeon, where everything melts from a fur-coated stoneage warrior with a bone in his fist anyway

 

So no, I'm not happy at all with what they did *again* to necros.

[Kam.4092]

> @Nash.2681 said:

> From a endgame PvE only PoV:

> This goes hand in hand with the scourge nerf lately- totally bullkitten.

> Let's bring things in chronological order:

> - somewhen back in time, A.Net decides to make condi dmg somewhat relevant (adjusting formulas, adding sinister and viper gear, condi stack increase, etc.)

> - out of this, condi did not only become relevant, it turned out to be the superior choice for most endgame encounters

> - condi reaper turns out to be somewhat usefull; not optimal, but still an ok'ish choice

> - PoF goes live, Scourge evolves and turns out to be the new golden condi class, yet it's designed as a high-risk-high-reward glasscanon, which was ok at first

> - Scourge gets nerfed into insignificance; still no defense/reasonable support and also no more reasonable dps

> - next update A.Net realizes that condi reaper can still be a thing; still not impressive dps, but at least way more surviveability than scourge...

> - ... so condi reaper gets another nerf, while buffing the power aspect which still is laughable meaningless everywhere outside of open world PvE or simple dungeon, where everything melts from a fur-coated stoneage warrior with a bone in his fist anyway

>

> So no, I'm not happy at all with what they did *again* to necros.

 

Scourge is doing 30kish at the moment with testing by guilds. It is near bottom, but all DPS builds are way lower now. It's not that bad. I mean Firebrand is like 33k now. A lot of builds are closer now than before.

[mulzi.8273]

> @Kam.4092 said:

> > @Nash.2681 said:

> > From a endgame PvE only PoV:

> > This goes hand in hand with the scourge nerf lately- totally bullkitten.

> > Let's bring things in chronological order:

> > - somewhen back in time, A.Net decides to make condi dmg somewhat relevant (adjusting formulas, adding sinister and viper gear, condi stack increase, etc.)

> > - out of this, condi did not only become relevant, it turned out to be the superior choice for most endgame encounters

> > - condi reaper turns out to be somewhat usefull; not optimal, but still an ok'ish choice

> > - PoF goes live, Scourge evolves and turns out to be the new golden condi class, yet it's designed as a high-risk-high-reward glasscanon, which was ok at first

> > - Scourge gets nerfed into insignificance; still no defense/reasonable support and also no more reasonable dps

> > - next update A.Net realizes that condi reaper can still be a thing; still not impressive dps, but at least way more surviveability than scourge...

> > - ... so condi reaper gets another nerf, while buffing the power aspect which still is laughable meaningless everywhere outside of open world PvE or simple dungeon, where everything melts from a fur-coated stoneage warrior with a bone in his fist anyway

> >

> > So no, I'm not happy at all with what they did *again* to necros.

>

> Scourge is doing 30kish at the moment with testing by guilds. It is near bottom, but all DPS builds are way lower now. It's not that bad. I mean Firebrand is like 33k now. A lot of builds are closer now than before.

 

Correction: alot of CONDI builds are closer together. Power builds are in the mid 20s (except for one that i wont mention to start that argument again)

[Catchyfx.5768]

not a fan of condi reaper.

Reaper power, Scourge for condi. +1 by me.

"destroying reaper" :D naah now its finally good!

Love this patch <3

[Kam.4092]

> @mulzi.8273 said:

> > @Kam.4092 said:

> > > @Nash.2681 said:

> > > From a endgame PvE only PoV:

> > > This goes hand in hand with the scourge nerf lately- totally bullkitten.

> > > Let's bring things in chronological order:

> > > - somewhen back in time, A.Net decides to make condi dmg somewhat relevant (adjusting formulas, adding sinister and viper gear, condi stack increase, etc.)

> > > - out of this, condi did not only become relevant, it turned out to be the superior choice for most endgame encounters

> > > - condi reaper turns out to be somewhat usefull; not optimal, but still an ok'ish choice

> > > - PoF goes live, Scourge evolves and turns out to be the new golden condi class, yet it's designed as a high-risk-high-reward glasscanon, which was ok at first

> > > - Scourge gets nerfed into insignificance; still no defense/reasonable support and also no more reasonable dps

> > > - next update A.Net realizes that condi reaper can still be a thing; still not impressive dps, but at least way more surviveability than scourge...

> > > - ... so condi reaper gets another nerf, while buffing the power aspect which still is laughable meaningless everywhere outside of open world PvE or simple dungeon, where everything melts from a fur-coated stoneage warrior with a bone in his fist anyway

> > >

> > > So no, I'm not happy at all with what they did *again* to necros.

> >

> > Scourge is doing 30kish at the moment with testing by guilds. It is near bottom, but all DPS builds are way lower now. It's not that bad. I mean Firebrand is like 33k now. A lot of builds are closer now than before.

>

> Correction: alot of CONDI builds are closer together. Power builds are in the mid 20s (except for one that i wont mention to start that argument again)

 

Only one Power build is in the mid 20s really, and that's Warrior. Power Reaper is doing like 28k. Power and Condi builds are closer now overall compared to what it was before.

[Svarty.8019]

> @wwDefuser.2056 said:

>

> Stopped playing Reaper at all after Dropping from 1700 to 1600 rating after placements (many players are happy now ^^)

>

Yep, I'm done with this shit, too.

 

> @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> Devs keep nerfing the Worst defense ability in the entire game bassicaly again and again and again............

>

> We are at the point where Reaper and Core encro needs a Buff to literally EVERYTHING.... dmg,Mobility,Selfsustain everything...

So it can't get any worse, right? Don't tempt these developers, they are feral!

 

[wolfyrik.2017]

> @Kam.4092 said:

> "We got nerfed!" ... "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

>

> "We got buffed!" ... "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

>

> This sums up the Necromancer forums to me. People begged for Reaper Power buffs. We got it, and there was a reasonable trade off. You all should be happy Reaper got some needed attention. Is it amazing and fixes Reaper? The answer is currently no when compared to other Elites, but we did get an ok buff DPS wise. I heard it's actually ok in PvP and Roaming now, but not better than Scourge. Power Reaper is one of the most buffed Elites in the game if you look back at patches. It's just the buffs are small. At least we keep getting buffed, and hopefully reach 32k+ eventually.

>

> People need to learn to appreciate what they get more.

 

I honestly don't see how you can call it a reasonable trade off when Reaper defence was already sub-par? Raising damage to middle-tier was the very least that needed to be done. Reaper is has gone from seriously under-performing in damage to still under-tuned in damage but seriously under-performing in defence. Anet should have raised the damage up, then worried about defences after. Power reaper being able to do so-so damage and be able to defend itself, would hardly have broken the game.

[Zania.8461]

The following is purely from PvE perspective:

 

I think the changes were meant to make necromancer share a spot with holosmith. Strip away all defenses and make sure that the high damage mode is only usable for short amounts of time. The only thing missing is the heat mechanic being incorporated into skills. I would not be horribly surprised if some skills in the next patch got "does more damage under x lifeforce".

 

With that said, I do think that necromancers needed a change. Giving reaper an actual specialization which branches it from "high sustain, low damage, low utility" necromancer is a GOOD thing. Yes, it will break some builds in the short term, but it will make necromancer as a class viable in PvE. The problem is of course is that, as usual, the buffs were far from sufficient. With the amount of defenses remaining, I would aim for sustained damage on golem in at least 32-35k range. At the rate the balance patches are going, we might get there by 2020.

[Anchoku.8142]

After working on alt's most of the day, I dusted off power-reaper and tagged onto some bounty events in PoF. Power-Reaper was not unplayable and I found myself pleased by the greater attention required of me for LF management.

 

Of course, the add's helped quite a bit. I may check some other builds for comparison, including spectral-reaper, some core builds, and various support configurations.

 

I admit to not playing much Necro, lately, and still plan to focus on alt's.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @AlexanderDracul.7492 said:

> > @Svarty.8019 said:

> > I'm sure Arenanet will explain their rationale in destroying the Reaper. Hahaha! I'm sure they won't.

>

> How did they destroy reaper? They buffed the damage a good amount and in turn reduced the shroud/defense. I'm not sure what people where expecting when they wanted more damage but when you increase damage you have to reduce something else, you can't have both.

 

I'd rather have MORE defense and leave the damage unchanged. I don't use Reaper for damage, I use it for defense.

 

Also, saying "when you increase damage you have to reduce something else, you can't have both" is a completely ludicrous and disproveable assertion. YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN INCREASE DAMAGE WHILE LEAVING EVERYTHING ELSE UNCHANGED. There was no man holding a gun to the dev team's head. They could have very easily left everything else unchanged.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Common post patch response goes like this: Its not just about raw damage. It is the damage to survivability ratio.

[Anchoku.8142]

Honestly, I would rather have perma-chill back on Reaper for added sustain. Other professions should fear the the conditions instead of shroud lasting long enough for skills to come off cool down.

[TerminalMontage.5693]

If they're going to make Reaper be more powerbased it needs more buffs, and a little more of the shroud time should come back, it feels so short especially with the 10s cd

 

They should make core necro be tanky in shroud.

[Kezriak.5076]

If they really want to buff power reaper then they should focus on more than just shroud, GS attack speed buff, maybe a rework to gravedigger to have it be a proc effect for 0sec cooldown instead of just spamming sub 50% hp, faster animations across the board for starters and a +dmg boost on the 2nd tier GS trait, maybe even going so far as to accomodate a hybrid class of power+condi, idk

[hash.8462]

> @Svarty.8019 said:

> So it can't get any worse, right? Don't tempt these developers, they are feral!

>

 

When you think you have touched the bottom.... do not worry !!! That's when you start digging...

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Frankly I'm just sick and tired of the lack of discussion by the balance team with the community to discuss why they feel the need to do certain things. I have never in the 20 years of playing MMO's seen a balance team completely isolate themselves from the player base, there is no reason to do this.

[ilmau.9781]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> Frankly I'm just sick and tired of the lack of discussion by the balance team with the community to discuss why they feel the need to do certain things. I have never in the 20 years of playing MMO's seen a balance team completely isolate themselves from the player base, there is no reason to do this.

 

They surely know better than us what is better for us.

[Conqueror.3682]

I favor the changes made in the last patch, but work is incomplete.

 

What must be changed, is the dependence of shroud for defense, if as a reaper, shroud is now a offesnvie skill, then make our utilities more defensive, there is a lot of work to do, but some suggestions.

 

* "your soul is mine generates more life force by target hit"

* "rise gives more damage reductión from their minions"

 

We can change some reaper talents too, the idea is to improve reaper defenses by other means diferent than shroud, but also not making core necromancer or scourge too tough to kill.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Damage is honestly too much for how little skill is required and how little overall is sacrificed compared to comparable-burst builds. It's honestly downright silly how stupid it is to press 1 button and get massive overkill on people. I love damage and always play all-in builds, but this is stupid.

 

The general capacity for a reaper to take hits just got further reduced after a rework that given the shroud degen rate was already considered excessive.

 

All that had to change was the AA because it was quite literally worthless.

 

Lower CD on RS itself, revert a lot of the damage buffs or do something like putting bleeds on DCharge to account for condition builds, remove the degen rate increase, revert the lack of LF gain on CV, and buff the AA by like 30-40% from what it was and everything ends up pretty much dandy.

 

If the other professions are over-performing massively in raids, maybe those should be nerfed instead of trying to justify getting reaper to deal more damage at the expense of RS's defense and utility which drives the whole profession.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @TerminalMontage.5693 said:

> If they're going to make Reaper be more powerbased it needs more buffs, and a little more of the shroud time should come back, it feels so short especially with the 10s cd

> They should make core necro be tanky in shroud.

 

This is exactly what is causing the issue, revert the bloody uptime for shroud which will in turn allow us to take advantage of the buffs we received. They just don't get it and the sad thing is we can't get a dialogue going so we can sort out some sort of compromise. Like I said I've never seen a company that is so unwilling to discuss things, it's infuriating. Power Reaper is shroud based and I don't care about the fact some people want that to go away because frankly all it does is change the Reaper into another version of the Scourge which many of us don't enjoy playing.

 

[mygamingid.5816]

Reaper's Shroud is shorter, and any reduction is going to be perceived far more than any increase, but in actual play I've had plenty of time to hit my useful attacks and auto until my key weapon skills are off CD. So it's more active in that it forces you to get back to your weapon skills. For me, running a pure Power Reaper build, that's more damage than camping Shroud and more engaging - good on both counts.

 

Shroud is still weak in single-target fights, particularly if the boss has a lot of anti-melee skills. Slower decay doesn't help there, though. Feels like it needs more life force generation than anything else.

[Zenith.7301]

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> ## :) The dps increase was a step in the right direction but there are still unresolved matters for reaper (and necro) class.

>

> * First of all, we still miss a blast finisher on warhorn 4

> * We still don't have a panic button (focus rework/spectral armor i'm looking at you)

> * We are still cripples, dagger 3 could use being 600 range shadowstep, or focus could get a "ride the lighting"

> * Honestly 50 sec cd on spectral grasp in PvE is ridiculous.

> * Spectral Wall needs to reflect projectiles, COME ON it's 2017.

> * It would be fantastic if warhorn could give me swiftness without putting me in combat. Maybe give swiftness to the 4 skill and make skill 5 pure dps that ticks lifesteal on top of damage and cripple? Notice the amazing combo it would have with blast on warhorn 4 - when you blast stealth/swiftness with your team in dungeon/fractal.

> * Staff. Gurl, no, bye, NEXT

 

I wish warhorn's locust swarm applied group wide like thief venoms and the damage procs were increased. Dagger 3 could use a shadowstep just like the Orr necro mobs have, and Greatsword 5 needs its cooldown reduced to 12 seconds. Nightfall should move with the necro.

 

Vampiric Aura should increase the group's incoming healing by 10% or give a raidwide concentration buff as I think concentration and healing power are the only raid buffs missing.

 

I like the suggestion someone else made to make decimate defenses give an extra 1% damage per stack of vulnerability for the necro, reduce the cd of wells and buff minion damage output, and make reaper shouts apply their effects to nearby allies.

 

Reduce the cast time and aftercast of gravedigger some more as well as the greatsword auto chain. Increase the chill application for greatsword auto. Swap Soul Eater with the adept trait that reduces movement impairment.

 

Staff needs to actually do damage in PvE. Convert the auto to apply bleed and torment and buff the marks and reduce their cd in PvE significantly. Staff and scepter for condi, dagger/greatsword axe for power.

 

Buff axe auto a couple more, and make unholy feast a lower cd with more aoe damage and causing chill/weakness. Then buff focus 4 to be a sizable aoe damage bounce to completement an axe/focus aoe option even if it's garbage in instanced pve compared to melee it will make things a lot better in open world/etc and for power builds in pvp as well.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Power is the worst attribute on any necro elite spec since its limited too boost it and most traits on it buffs conditions and reapets buff towards basicly made it weaker why pick something witth no sustains then we got scourge

[ilmau.9781]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Power is the worst attribute on any necro elite spec since its limited too boost it and most traits on it buffs conditions and reapets buff towards basicly made it weaker why pick something witth no sustains then we got scourge

 

that is another point i am pointing out from quite some time. There is no choice here, however you look at it in any game mode Scourge is outperforming Reaper.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> Frankly I'm just sick and tired of the lack of discussion by the balance team with the community to discuss why they feel the need to do certain things. I have never in the 20 years of playing MMO's seen a balance team completely isolate themselves from the player base, there is no reason to do this.

 

Really? because what I see here is pretty status quo ... why the hell would a dev team talk to players at large on a forum about balance? How objective do you think people are? I think you give people way to much credit for their objectivity and their knowledge of the game as a whole.