Are Mounts Necessary?

[RavenRecoil.6103]

I love riding my mount everywhere.

[CedarDog.9723]

Yep, definitely handicapped enough that desperately need mounts in all areas. Especially rookie areas.

[jia li ng.8415]

I gave up on expecting player etiquette a few years ago, though when I receive common courtesy it is always greatly appreciated. This whine about how badly a player needs a mount in newbie zones, I wonder how the heck did you get by without them for the past three and a half years (serving cheese now)? It is not absolutely necessary at all. As previously stated, any map can be run without a mount, map completion with a mount speeds things up considerably but using a mount in 1-15 zones is ludicrous, often misused or abused.

[LightningWolfTigerBear.672]

I'm fine with removing the CC from mount attacks and reducing the damage, but completely disabling mounts in the starter zones? No, you lost me there. Re-exploring the old zones from the back of my griffon is half the reason I got the griffon in the first place .

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @HazyDaisy.4107 said:

> > > There's one HP in Queensdale that I can think of, it's a level 10 if memory serves correctly, the funny thing is I personally was never able to complete that HP solo on any genuine level 10 I ever brought in there. Level 20 and 30 solo yes, but never the actual level recommendation by myself.

> > >

> > > Even back then, 4-5 years ago wandering around as a newbie I welcomed the higher levels that came through and helped with these newbie zones.

> > >

> > > Before mounts, before gliding however, I still remember many people complaining about those evil level 80 folks coming in and ruining the game for these quote unquote new players.

> > >

> > > What you have to realize is it doesn't matter if they have mounts, gliding or either expansion that offers one of them, the level 80 folks that have been playing the game for more than a few days will still be there, because they've experienced everything else and sometimes just want to go back to the old, and even if they have gliding or a mount, the character they are on at the time may not be a level 80.

> > >

> > > You can either welcome everyone as a player of the game or you can suggest putting up a wall and say ONLY a certain level of player is allowed in a certain zone. But then, you risk alienating those crazy level 10 players that want to go the Frost Gorge just to ski :).

> >

> > I'm going to assume it's the thief one with 2 girl thieves and one white haired thief guy.

> > In my defense though, every kind of game I play that's an RPG or exploration I always tend to "Let me 100% explore this place before continuing on" so by the time I used to head in those level 10 areas and higher, I would usually be level 15 or at least near 20.

> > A lot of those recommended level ones at low level are really tough at the recommended level.

> >

> > In Same Queensdale near that one Hero Point that's around like 4 Veteran Centaurs and like 15 of them running around and by that one renown heart you need to recruit ettins to fight those same Centaurs, there's a minidungeon/jumping puzzle/whatever to the east.

> > I don't know how the hell a low level player is meant to beat it. I really don't, and I mean even at the area recommended 1-15.

> >

> > At the end of the thing is a room full of oozes, multiple small/medium/veteran ones.

> > All swarm you and immobilize you.. meaning

> > 1. Got no good range? You're dead.

> > 2. Got no way of removing the immobilization? You're dead.

> > 3. Can't kill at least half of them quickly? You're dead.

> > 4. Can kill most of them, but still too slow? You're dead as most of them will just respawn when you try to get to the chest at the end.

> >

> > **I discovered this cave like 3 months ago on a temporary character and I was wondering how the hell I was supposed to beat it.** I did die, but then after that I went back there, kept the character in a safe spot and logged out, brought a level 80 there and cleaned house, and then loaded back on my lower character to at least get to see what's in the chest for the "Recommended level" character.

> > Oh, and even if it's meant for multiple people... those multiples better be more than 2, because I tried it once with one of my friends who was very inexperienced too and we both died.

> > Unless this was meant to be for "Those who have a level 80 and know what they're doing but then come back later to try out dungeon/puzzle" Fine, but I highly doubt that.

>

> One person at level can do it. You go around and up. When you enter the room start running and take a hard left. Go up that ramp, jump on the top of the pillars and run along on the edge at back of the room above the mobs. Drop down where the chest is but in a small nook close to the back wall so you don’t agro everything. Then use range to kill the closest small oozes and pull the nearest vet ooze to you to kill it. At that point you should be able to open the chest without agro’ing anything else, then wp out.

 

I will check that out in a bit except the last part.

Having to WP out of a puzzle/dungeon sounds like a flaw then as you shouldn't have to do that to get out. Every other place I can think of is decent/doable to get out without having to WP. Even that one in um... I forgot if it's Timerlane Falls or Lornar's Pass, but the dungeon with the windy area and the maze and the veteran imps and all those dead Asurans and Norns everywhere.

While there's no exit at the end, it's not hard for someone to get out of there alive as the enemies in there are spread out at least.

[RavenRecoil.6103]

Are mounts necessary? No

Are mounts fun? Yes!

I love running around areas I first experienced 5 years ago on my mount.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> I gave up on expecting player etiquette a few years ago, though when I receive common courtesy it is always greatly appreciated. This whine about how badly a player needs a mount in newbie zones, I wonder how the heck did you get by without them for the past three and a half years (serving cheese now)? It is not absolutely necessary at all. As previously stated, any map can be run without a mount, map completion with a mount speeds things up considerably but using a mount in 1-15 zones is ludicrous, often misused or abused.

 

You have no idea how sick I am of seeing those zones. The faster I can get though it the better, so yes, it is necessary and required for me even if you don't think it is.

[Noa.7490]

I have 100% map completion on 15 of my 33 toons. All accomplished way before gliders and mounts, and at a time when you had to actually complete the Mists too! right now I'm glad to have mounts as they allow my other toons to complete maps faster.

[Elliyana.8936]

I have multiple world map completions before mounts were introduced (about 7). I find mounts to be a welcome part of the game for traveling around. Especially if you misstep, fail a jump, you can hop onto your Springer and get back to where you left off, rather than running all the way back to the start. Besides, having a mount gives players another refreshing perspective on how to reach their otherwise one-directional path to a destination.

 

You seem to be focusing mainly on mount's aoe attacks, yet demand mounts in general be removed from starting zones. As a general etiquette, I usually mount up to the event and dismount around mobs (not using their 1 skill), and tagging once just to claim (not kill them). If everyone behaved that way, would your stance on mounts change at all?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @HazyDaisy.4107 said:

> > > > There's one HP in Queensdale that I can think of, it's a level 10 if memory serves correctly, the funny thing is I personally was never able to complete that HP solo on any genuine level 10 I ever brought in there. Level 20 and 30 solo yes, but never the actual level recommendation by myself.

> > > >

> > > > Even back then, 4-5 years ago wandering around as a newbie I welcomed the higher levels that came through and helped with these newbie zones.

> > > >

> > > > Before mounts, before gliding however, I still remember many people complaining about those evil level 80 folks coming in and ruining the game for these quote unquote new players.

> > > >

> > > > What you have to realize is it doesn't matter if they have mounts, gliding or either expansion that offers one of them, the level 80 folks that have been playing the game for more than a few days will still be there, because they've experienced everything else and sometimes just want to go back to the old, and even if they have gliding or a mount, the character they are on at the time may not be a level 80.

> > > >

> > > > You can either welcome everyone as a player of the game or you can suggest putting up a wall and say ONLY a certain level of player is allowed in a certain zone. But then, you risk alienating those crazy level 10 players that want to go the Frost Gorge just to ski :).

> > >

> > > I'm going to assume it's the thief one with 2 girl thieves and one white haired thief guy.

> > > In my defense though, every kind of game I play that's an RPG or exploration I always tend to "Let me 100% explore this place before continuing on" so by the time I used to head in those level 10 areas and higher, I would usually be level 15 or at least near 20.

> > > A lot of those recommended level ones at low level are really tough at the recommended level.

> > >

> > > In Same Queensdale near that one Hero Point that's around like 4 Veteran Centaurs and like 15 of them running around and by that one renown heart you need to recruit ettins to fight those same Centaurs, there's a minidungeon/jumping puzzle/whatever to the east.

> > > I don't know how the hell a low level player is meant to beat it. I really don't, and I mean even at the area recommended 1-15.

> > >

> > > At the end of the thing is a room full of oozes, multiple small/medium/veteran ones.

> > > All swarm you and immobilize you.. meaning

> > > 1. Got no good range? You're dead.

> > > 2. Got no way of removing the immobilization? You're dead.

> > > 3. Can't kill at least half of them quickly? You're dead.

> > > 4. Can kill most of them, but still too slow? You're dead as most of them will just respawn when you try to get to the chest at the end.

> > >

> > > **I discovered this cave like 3 months ago on a temporary character and I was wondering how the hell I was supposed to beat it.** I did die, but then after that I went back there, kept the character in a safe spot and logged out, brought a level 80 there and cleaned house, and then loaded back on my lower character to at least get to see what's in the chest for the "Recommended level" character.

> > > Oh, and even if it's meant for multiple people... those multiples better be more than 2, because I tried it once with one of my friends who was very inexperienced too and we both died.

> > > Unless this was meant to be for "Those who have a level 80 and know what they're doing but then come back later to try out dungeon/puzzle" Fine, but I highly doubt that.

> >

> > One person at level can do it. You go around and up. When you enter the room start running and take a hard left. Go up that ramp, jump on the top of the pillars and run along on the edge at back of the room above the mobs. Drop down where the chest is but in a small nook close to the back wall so you don’t agro everything. Then use range to kill the closest small oozes and pull the nearest vet ooze to you to kill it. At that point you should be able to open the chest without agro’ing anything else, then wp out.

>

> I will check that out in a bit except the last part.

> Having to WP out of a puzzle/dungeon sounds like a flaw then as you shouldn't have to do that to get out. Every other place I can think of is decent/doable to get out without having to WP. Even that one in um... I forgot if it's Timerlane Falls or Lornar's Pass, but the dungeon with the windy area and the maze and the veteran imps and all those dead Asurans and Norns everywhere.

> While there's no exit at the end, it's not hard for someone to get out of there alive as the enemies in there are spread out at least.

 

Well, you don’t have to wp out if you don’t want to. You can continue to pull and kill until you clear the room if you want. Generally though, imo, if someone is going to bother to kill all in the room they’ll do that from the start and those that take the avoid the mobs route will go ahead and wp out. Of course now that some have a Springer, those people can jump to the tunnel above the chest that leads to the outside.

 

(You can get to the exit above the chest without the Springer but you have to run past oozes to get to the ramp again. Which is doable if you stick close to the wall, run fast and be ready to dodge. Or you can kill the oozes on that side of the room to get to the ramp).

.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> Scale the mount attacks do deal no damage if you are low level and the problem is solved

 

Dismount attacks are a bit overpowered in low level zones but it is fun to take out a group of Sons of Svanir on dismount.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I've thought that they should permit people who don't own HoT to glide in cities and put trainer raptors in cities as well. It would be a tease to entice people to get the expansions.

[jia li ng.8415]

So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected. I am looking at this as something larger, as something beyond my needs. I have admitted I have been guilty of abusing gameplay for others, disregarding its overall effect on our community of gamers, but have become aware that even though I can change myself and how I play (i.e. respecting the needs of those around me and not being selfish) other individuals show no such awareness. An example would be pulling back to auto-attack as opposed to powering up my utilities and elite when involved in a daily (all it takes is one hit and voila) when lesser players are in the group. Sure it's fun to fly in Queensdale, but is it a need? Aren't there many more maps to choose from than these 5, or are you so limited in your imagination?

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected. I am looking at this as something larger, as something beyond my needs. I have admitted I have been guilty of abusing gameplay for others, disregarding its overall effect on our community of gamers, but have become aware that even though I can change myself and how I play (i.e. respecting the needs of those around me and not being selfish) other individuals show no such awareness. An example would be pulling back to auto-attack as opposed to powering up my utilities and elite when involved in a daily (all it takes is one hit and voila) when lesser players are in the group. Sure it's fun to fly in Queensdale, but is it a need? Aren't there many more maps to choose from than these 5, or are you so limited in your imagination?

 

For the most part, you are the one trying to act all high and mighty with how you are posting. Most people I see don't abuse the mounts aoe attacks, so you are trying to force something on us claiming it is for the better good when in reality it really isn't. Most people like having mounts in the zones, and just because you think they should be removed doesn't make you holier then us. It just means you have a different opinion which you are trying to shove down everyone throats which most disagree with.

[CedarDog.9723]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected. I am looking at this as something larger, as something beyond my needs. I have admitted I have been guilty of abusing gameplay for others, disregarding its overall effect on our community of gamers, but have become aware that even though I can change myself and how I play (i.e. respecting the needs of those around me and not being selfish) other individuals show no such awareness. An example would be pulling back to auto-attack as opposed to powering up my utilities and elite when involved in a daily (all it takes is one hit and voila) when lesser players are in the group. Sure it's fun to fly in Queensdale, but is it a need? Aren't there many more maps to choose from than these 5, or are you so limited in your imagination?

 

Exactly! I only used mounts (since we've gotten access to them) to move around more quickly in core Tyria maps, especially getting map completion for the nth time. Map completion not really being that fun anymore.

 

Anyhow, your preachy, condescending, self-righteous, insulting tone kinda makes me want to go to the newbie zones and use the mount 1 skill and all my big burst damage skills on event mob spawns. Whereas, I hadn't used the dismount skill nor tried to instakill mobs during those things previously. Thank you for convincing me to do so.

[jia li ng.8415]

I started this tread as an observation, merely something many of us veteran gamers were witnessing during Frozen Maw a few weeks ago, we continued to see this practice and occurrence happen every time a daily was limited to one of these starter zones, it is not my intention to create monsters that will feverishly rush out into these zones to spoil the game, and for that I sincerely apologize.

 

An alternate solution might be simply adjust the daily scheduling to exclude these zones from players whose accounts are more developed, that is any account with a level 15 or higher. Allowing F2P player to experience the wonders of the game and complete there respective daily achievements without having to compete with scaling mobs.

 

We all realize that mounts are here to stay, that some players will abuse and exploit the game for spite (deriving some sense of joy), and until it becomes a real problem nothing will be done or considered.

 

[tairneanach.8427]

If mounts were allowed anywhere but in the starter zones, I'd have to respecc my characters every time I needed to go there to have as much swiftness as possible in order not be slogging ponderously through maps - and some professions are pretty poor at doing that. I didn't know I wanted a mount before I got one, but freeing up utility skills and specialisation slots to make my characters the way I want them instead of sacrificing that freedom for movement speed I needed to not be bored to tears was and still is great.

 

So no, I don't desparately need mounts there, but they're still way more fun than being on foot.

 

This, though:

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> many of us veteran gamers

 

You do realise the people arguing against you are veteran gamers too, don't you?

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed.

If it's a new character, it won't be completed.

 

> Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder?

Seeing how it makes travelling faster (especially for me as I almost never use waypoints), I won't "flounder", but I would go back to "Ugh" mode when I have go to places like Orr.

 

> They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering.

The "few" is the "few". Except on the forums and very very rarely, I have heard no one complain.

 

> Get over yourselves,

Can say the same to you.

 

> think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected.

I don't ever do the dismount attack unless I see something I need to kill that people are plummeting to dead and I need a hit in to get credit for. The rest of the time if I'm alone (and most times no one is near me anyway when I'm playing by myself, I'm going to use these dismount attacks to my advantage. I'm not going to take on 5+ enemies that's spread out a bit when I can pull them in and do damage to all in one go.

Same for if there's an enemy I can drop with the Springer to get a few hits in, I'll do it too.

 

> I am looking at this as something larger, as something beyond my needs.

Sounding like that religious infomercial again.

 

> I have admitted I have been guilty of abusing gameplay for others, disregarding its overall effect on our community of gamers, but have become aware that even though I can change myself and how I play (i.e. respecting the needs of those around me and not being selfish) other individuals show no such awareness.

Religious Informercial: Part 3.

Okay so you're the one that has been selfish and killing things as someone was running to an enemy and you went to it and killed it in one hit and now want to make others pay for your actions?

Majority of the people I see in the game is already considerate to a point. If you have a problem with even the few that's inconsiderate, you shouldn't be online... let alone an online game as there are people who don't give a skritt about your feelings. Sad truth, I know.

 

 

> An example would be pulling back to auto-attack as opposed to powering up my utilities and elite when involved in a daily (all it takes is one hit and voila) when lesser players are in the group.

Which dailies are we speaking of? If it's an event one, I don't know any you can finish in one hit. Not even the single target ones where it's a boss or a vet or something. What have you been feeding your mounts?

And I'm sure you're not talking like mining and such because that's account/character based and not world based. And of course bosses like Great Wurm and Fire Elemental and Shadow Behemoth... if you can kill that in one hit... PLEASE tell us what you're doing because Arenanet would need to patch that fast.

 

 

> Sure it's fun to fly in Queensdale, but is it a need? Aren't there many more maps to choose from than these 5, or are you so limited in your imagination?

Religious infomercial: Part 4

I wanna fly like a Griffon,

To the mist.

Fly like a Griffon,

No updraft. but I got this.

I want to fly like a Griffon,

'ccount ain't free.

Oh, Grenth, to the oblivion!

 

So because you feel bad because of how bad you was, you want to now preach to others that "Well you could do the same thing I've done."

Yeah. Good luck with your pilgrimage of a mount-less "Level 1-15" area because I'll stick to using my mounts to get to places, getting vistas that I've gotten before on other characters, completing hearts that are meant to be soloed (like when I awake an earth elemental... it's account/character bound and spawns one. When I'm done with that, whoever is behind me will get the same elemental because the one I kill is not the one on their screen to load up), and traveling Tyria.

 

Limit yourself if you want, but don't try and preach on how something should be. Thanks.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

I like the movement part of mounts. The dismount skills are imo, overpowered in general.

 

[Urud.4925]

Mounts have been greatly requested by the playerbase, so I don't expect much empathy for the OP. But new players in the starting areas, even if they play the free version, are still our mates. A bit more balance in playing at the same level would be nice (that's the reason why we are downscaled after all).

While the gliding doesn't affect other players' game, the mounts can. Watching someone to complete a jumping puzzle with 2 jumps, while you are struggling for 2 hours is also depressing; but this is another topic.

I guess/hope ANet will reduce some feature (the backlash in the starting areas is a good suggestion) but for now they are leaving the people to enjoy their new toys. It could cause some rage post if they'd nerf them few months after the release.

As for the use... if they don't cause disruptions (like being too overpowered) I guess there's no reason to completely remove them from some map.

[Suki Tomi.1903]

I've only been playing Guild Wars 2 for a little over eight months, my achievements include seven level eighty characters, one with storyline and map completion. I have no intention of buying Path of Fire until I complete Living Story Two and Three. I am taking this opportunity to explore and savor the richness and diversity of Tyria. I see quite a hornets nest being stirred about mounts and from my perspective its much ado about nothing. I really do not care whether someone can ride in on a mount and take control of an event because there are events happening every few minutes and if you are patient the mounted players move on to other places and I still soldier on. To me mounts are a trophy bought not something earned and for that reason I really do not care to waste my earnings to acquire one. Such a big deal over something so worthless. I do agree that the game is not as fun as it was when I first started but who knew there was going to be an expansion. Maybe in a couple years I might buy into the idea I simply can not live without having mount but it will take a whole lot more convincing than seeing someone stealing an event. If I wait long enough I can do the same event without interruption.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Why is it that no one was really upset when gliding was expanded, but mounts are driving everyone insane?

"The mounts allow people to bypass hard parts of JPs!" So does a mesmer with help.

"Mounts are costing me too much money!" Then don't buy the griffon or the optional skins.

"Mounts are ..."

Does it really take away from your enjoyment if I'm able to jump across a chasm in PvE and you can't?

The only time a mount serves one person to the detriment of others is when a character can't reach an event before the monster/boss is killed because everyone else on mounts was there first.

[Urud.4925]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> The only time a mount serves one person to the detriment of others is when a character can't reach an event before the monster/boss is killed because everyone else on mounts was there first.

Good point here. It happened few times with Karka. Though I arrived just in time for shooting a couple of arrows :) With a melee I would have missed it.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Suki Tomi.1903" said:

>To me mounts are a trophy bought not something earned and for that reason I really do not care to waste my earnings to acquire one.

 

You do realize mounts are Path of Fire content, and that you actually do need them to complete the story and move around the desert maps right? They're not a trophy, they're a mechanic, just like gliding, and they're also not exactly expensive, you get the raptor for free and the others are a few gold each except the griffin which is intended as a gold sink and not required. Even the jackal is not required to finish the story.

 

Anyway, another "low levels are screwed because of mounts" thread? Hasn't this been talked to death already?

I recently started leveling a character from lvl 1, an elementalist, just for fun and i just walk everywhere, reliving those low level wonderous moments.

Honestly, where are those evil mount players that are stealing events from everyone? I'm not seeing them. If anything i'm the evil elementalist that's stealing kills from people cause elementalist skills are kinda ridiculous, i can be done with a mob before a melee character gets close, and i'm **the appropriate map level**. Do you know what i can do with a level 80 character full geared in ascended? You think i need mounts to wipe those events? But i don't, and other people don't. If there's an event, someone will get a kill or two, then just idle. Even if they wipe a few mobs with a mount, the event doesn't end there, it keeps going and more mobs spawn.

Also, haven't you learned anything playing the game? Ranged is king for events. Go play melee and do events and see how much tags you get. I once tried that on a lvl 80 character while everyone else was about the map level or higher, and i didn't get a single tag, all the ranged ones took the whole event. That was before mounts.

 

People, mounts are not the problem here.

[Ashen.2907]

TLDR: Mount use by a level 80 in a low level zone has an impact very little in difference from a level 80 (without a mount) in a low level zone since launch.