Chaba.5410 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @Ricky.4706 said: > > @Chaba.5410 said: > > > @Ricky.4706 said: > > > if lower tiered servers had round the clock coverage, they'd take the top tier ranks in a heartbeat from having faced insane outnumbered / severely imbalanced scenarios for so many years. > > > > I don't entirely believe it. That experiment seems to have already been run with Anet having created teams that are larger in population than BG and the only server combo that actually accomplished the feat was Maguuma+link. All other server combos decided they didn't want to play against BG. > > naw, it's true, I was there for the birth of both servers, and was briefly in HOD when they originally had the crown. > > Blackgate was a concerted effort between several major alliances of guilds to get guilds from various time zones to have round the clock coverage. This is a fact that I along with many others vets from 1st gw2 beta observed. > > Maguuma - became popular with the Goon Squad from Eve that came en masse to gw2 - they played hard and caught the attention other pvp intensive guilds - this was years after blackgate had already been established, - maguuma plays very well but has no where near the round the clock coverage blackgate has. > > It's also a fact - as I've been involved in such strategies, that you can easily turn a match around in a matter of 1 hours to have an extreme lead with organized groups - blackgate has this ability around the clock, maguuma does not. Blackgates lead is no mystery nor skill nor magic, it is simply around the clock coverage, nothing more, nothing less - maguuma or any other server for that matter can't keep up. > > No debating this, at least with me, I saw them all being created since Orbs of power were a thing, and even ran around with a few of the groups that were involved, In fact, I'm still in one of the first guilds that were hardcore wvw - which is now a ghost town, out of 393 members, I along with maybe 1 or 2 others are the only ones that log on to it these days. - it's creepy actually - a ghost town wvw guild. Stacking has always been a problem. I'm sure you don't see the irony of a 300+ member guild on HoD. But what has this to do with the fact that Anet created teams that are larger than BG through server links and those teams failed? Do you not recall the dev mention in the AMA on reddit about how the linked servers had more playhours than BG? Numbers is only part of the equation. Organization is the other part. Your premise that those lower tiered servers would take the top tier rank from being outnumbered all these years is false because when they did have the coverage and faced BG they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 while spoken with conviction, that is only a theory that can be proven false, by simply making wvw random. Then letting guilds rank as guilds, not servers. First, this would exclude those who do not care for such politics to be exempt from the control that a server with around the clock coverage would have. - because it would have to be a guild. Then you'd have to count on blackgate guilds being loyal to each other and giving up their own individual guild identity, those blackgate folk get to meet people they would have never fought otherwise - u know, the 1 shot / OP players that everyone complains about. Once you show me blackgate as a guild dominating the number 1 spot, then we can talk again. Till then, sorry, I respectfully disagree. I don't need to speculate when I was there to watch how it all happened. I know exactly which brick to pull to watch their castle crumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 ANet isn't going to make server transfers free. They are going to continue to close worlds with "overwhelming participation". Given those two requirements, how much should it cost to transfer? 500 gems seems like the smallest amount they could charge. There are several reasons it's always going to cost to transfer: to prevent bandwagoning, to partly defray the costs of maintaining the infrastructure that allows near-instant transfers, and to help ANet maintain an income that allows them to keep a 300-person studio churning out content in the manner to which the community has become accustomed. I don't think price is the important variable in the long run. I think it would be good if there were real incentives for people to transfer _from_ a high-pop world and right now, there aren't many. (Of course, the tricky thing is: what sorts of incentives could they offer?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodeuyn.2751 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > ANet isn't going to make server transfers free. They are going to continue to close worlds with "overwhelming participation". Given those two requirements, how much should it cost to transfer? 500 gems seems like the smallest amount they could charge. > > There are several reasons it's always going to cost to transfer: to prevent bandwagoning, to partly defray the costs of maintaining the infrastructure that allows near-instant transfers, and to help ANet maintain an income that allows them to keep a 300-person studio churning out content in the manner to which the community has become accustomed. > > I don't think price is the important variable in the long run. I think it would be good if there were real incentives for people to transfer _from_ a high-pop world and right now, there aren't many. (Of course, the tricky thing is: what sorts of incentives could they offer?) Pips! All low population servers now get extra pips. I'm joking, but I feel safe betting that players would transfer immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 anet would stand to make a whole lot more money by enhancing the role play aspect in wvw - which translates to outfits and cosmetic items. Stop the red vs blue vs green - and make it order of sunspears vs disciples of joko vs Children of Rurik. Watch how fast those finishing moves that say "Praise Joko" or "Be Free!" or "We are the true Rulers of Tyria" sell along with their respective outfits. it will sell faster than a transfer to any server that will never have a chance to be number 1 because only 1 server has around the clock coverage and it's closed. The idea would be to not tie a guild to any color or server, so they can use all 3 finishing moves, and dress for the server of the moment. No locking in of anything, all random, only guilds can join their guildmates in the current match for ranking purposes - which is kept random by anet - everyone else that fills in the spaces is random and based on rank. this is to be sure the current number 1 champs get the best 1 shot roamers in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiri.4257 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 There's disillusionment that anet makes money off gem transfers. I believe it was stated in their quarterly reports, the server transfers make an inconsequential amount of their sales. They make more money off pvers buying choya hats than server transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > ANet isn't going to make server transfers free. They are going to continue to close worlds with "overwhelming participation". Given those two requirements, how much should it cost to transfer? 500 gems seems like the smallest amount they could charge. > > > > There are several reasons it's always going to cost to transfer: to prevent bandwagoning, to partly defray the costs of maintaining the infrastructure that allows near-instant transfers, and to help ANet maintain an income that allows them to keep a 300-person studio churning out content in the manner to which the community has become accustomed. > > > > I don't think price is the important variable in the long run. I think it would be good if there were real incentives for people to transfer _from_ a high-pop world and right now, there aren't many. (Of course, the tricky thing is: what sorts of incentives could they offer?) > > Pips! All low population servers now get extra pips. I'm joking, but I feel safe betting that players would transfer immediately. I don't think they could make it permanent, but it could be something like you get e.g. 5 extra pips for e.g. the first 2 weeks after transfer (limited to 2 weeks per year or something like that). The idea would be: * There's a "signing bonus" for transferring to a low-pop world. * That bonus is temporary. * There's a limited number of times you could take advantage (to prevent transfers just for the bonus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @Ricky.4706 said: > while spoken with conviction, that is only a theory that can be proven false, by simply making wvw random. Then letting guilds rank as guilds, not servers. > First, this would exclude those who do not care for such politics to be exempt from the control that a server with around the clock coverage would have. - because it would have to be a guild. > > Then you'd have to count on blackgate guilds being loyal to each other and giving up their own individual guild identity, those blackgate folk get to meet people they would have never fought otherwise - u know, the 1 shot / OP players that everyone complains about. > > Once you show me blackgate as a guild dominating the number 1 spot, then we can talk again. Till then, sorry, I respectfully disagree. I don't need to speculate when I was there to watch how it all happened. I know exactly which brick to pull to watch their castle crumble. OK LOL. Just look at MOS history. No conviction needed when there's data. Those BG players are already playing as a guild due to their years of playing together while the server-linked teams are a disorganized mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 all servers play as a guild lol - make it a choice and watch things change in quantum speeds. Remember that many of those guilds are from various parts of the world, many were actually paid for to transfer, many of them were the bandwagoners looking for the winning server of the moment....blackgate would look like a wet cat that fell in a pool of roamers once wvw went random with organized guilds in the mix. Sorry, there is no loyalty there, there was just the best choice for a round the clock coverage in wvw - no round the clock coverage, no fat fluffy cat.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 You still think, three years after HoT and multiple years since the last tournament, that it is still the same? What guilds are still there? That were there when you saw them 'born' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I agree, I'm sure many of the guilds have disbanded and melted together over time, because winning became meaningless. It doesn't change the character of a hard core pvpr. Guilds will reform, once they realize the power is all about having good commanders, and people start realizing that there were rank 5k roaming thieves that were far superior to the band wagon players they once loved ( or tolerated because there was no other choice ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion.4061 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I've had a lot of fun on SoR recently, beats being on a server like JQ/BG which I have been on in the past. Just transfer down and you'll see a completely different side of WvW. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan.3472 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Ha, the Traditionnal Weekly Whining Thread about BG is inside here ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 oh geez, don't go there - truth is they are my peeps, and i recognize that they are the best from gw1 working together in gw2 ...BUT that doesn't mean I approve of 1 server ruining the game for everyone else. It's time to let go of the training wheels, the joke is over...please let the rest of us enjoy the game. Yall have no idea how much nonsense we have to put up with in lower tiers ....not because of blackgate, but because this server vs server system is not at all good and harming the game for everyone else. - At this point, I would expect blackgate to support this, I know they have no intentions of ruining the game for everyone else, but all the same "Playing along as if you are the best around" isn't helping and is making an old joke stale. In the end you only harm your server - because you fight the same stale fights - you harm the game experience for everyone else that has to deal with these insanely outnumbered fights, and you harm anet because this isn't a respectable game mode anymore. what wvw needs is to be gvg - structured guild fights backed up with random high ranking playeers filling in the blanks...... that's fair. and how is blackgate exactly ruining the game for everyone below their tier ? easy - everyone who takes this server score serious is trying to stack up to fight blackgate - but they can't get the same coverage - so everyone under THEM is stuck fighting some bloated server ( and still slapping them silly when they all log off to go to sleep lol )- by the time you get to t4 - where I'm at, You can't walk on the field without facing at minimum 5 vs 1 on prime time, and have to wait till they go to sleep to have a balanced fight - not even to have an advantage - just even numbers. I really don't care about this number 1 spot, tbh, i didn't have fun the little while I spent in those big fights - yall take it too serious....and apparently still do. At least in a gvg open world format - ranking high will be the guilds problems that want to rank, not me, a roamer that just likes to play balanced games. The higher I rank, the better the fights I get ..mostly fair fights. which is what i paid for but am not getting. I don't want to join another server trying to beat blackgate...i want to abolish servers trying to beat blackgate along with blackgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidome.1365 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Loosmaster.8263 said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > Full should be locked for transfers. > > > > I think his point was to allow transfers to full servers and waste your gems because now there is such a large que you can't play, lol. > > Being on a locked server, the queues aren't nearly as long. And for us, mainly reset, or one server, are the only queues. > > I don't know. Maybe it WOULD incentivize people to destack... Desolation is currently "full" and yet has no queues even at prime time (except a small queue on eb for about 2 hours after Friday reset)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seffen.2875 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Cerby.1069 said: > > I mean its kinda kitten tho since you are killing your own playerbase by doing that....alot of the players will just leave rather than transfer. ANd you funnel all the diehard members from each server into the already diehard large server communities, its easy to see how the large servers who are winners are always the winners. > > People are looking to transfer into the highest costing servers, specifically the 1-3 ones that consistently win and don't get pairings (cause having pairings means you could run into unwinnable/hopeless matchups over and over in the future) That is actually what they want. They pair the Servers and set their threshhold so their powerlevel meets the Tier they are in. They are activly trying to stale everything. > > It would make more sense to make it cheap, if not free, to transfer to the smallest servers. Then any large guilds can join/stack obscure lesser servers, and we can create ways for people from the 24/7winning servers to change servers and make actual competition for their former servers. I'm sure there is plenty of discord in the higher population winning servers on how to do things....and im sure plenty of people would split and form their own factions if they were given a chance to. As it stands, they are forced to stay in their server though...its foolish for them to even think about changing servers cause the system is against them from the start. Allow people to move around....its a pretty simple concept. Just make the moving 1-way. So it still costs a crud ton to transfer to the highest servers, so if they do leave their safety nests there are risks! I will not Transfer since i am losing 3 weeks of pips. Which is, as Long as i do not have my legendary armour just too much. > > ALot of people keep pressing the argument that allowing people to transfer for free, or next to nothing, to the smallest of servers will create more unbalanced matchups. This is a flawed argument. The game has designed things around map ques, so they balance things based on the highest que's possible for a map. Arrow carts and whatever are balanced based on what they do in matchups where the max number ofpeople on each of the 3 sides fight eachother. Reaching this point is the ideal! WE should want map ques for all the servers 24/7 if we really care about balanced matchups. WE should create avenues to make this happen. This would help create that scenario. It will maybe take a few weeks here and there, but we'll get to the point where the populations start to stabilize and we dont' have this HIGH vs LOW thing going on....we'll have medium-large all over, and from there we can balance the system better. why would you want small Servers at all? Just make it less and then see the Population dense up. Right now there are simply not enough People to populate all Servers evenly and also create good matchups. > > Make it free to transfer to the small servers. Give it a month, we'll have a real gamemode again. Ur one part-time wvsw developer should be able to handle this in a day. No logical reason not to. What will happen after this? A huge amount of People will start to Transfer around within shortes time. Eventually they make up a Server that is growing the fastest and will gather there creating a massive Server in a very short time. Maybe this will happen several times. And they can adjust the threshhold fast enough because as i said, the threshhold is opted out for the Servers respective matchup. This would create a huge mess. If this would not happen, then the oppsoite will happen. People will not Transfer at all. I mean. 500 gems is nothing. so why are they not tranferring around right now?? So this would be in my opinion the two most likely possible outcomes. Neither of them Appeals me. Though you are right about the fact, that something Needs to be changed, the Problems that Need to be Adresse lie a lot deeper than what most are thinking. The more i think about the Problem, the more i realise, that there is almost no solution to solve ALL the Problems rising with the Topic. You can not just Close Servers, you have to think of all the People having a personal bond to their Servers, especially in PvE who would be affected by the Change as well. (And if you would give everyone a free Transfer People would go there for the Transfer) If you make it cheaper to Transfer to the smaller Servers pretty much nothing would happen on the short way because growth Needs time. (at least healthy growth) in the worst case a lot of peolple would be hopping from Server to Server completely kittening up the whole Scene. You could make it cheaper for a short amount of time but that would also pretty much do nothing. You could make the threshold the same for all Servers. But you cannot evaluate them weekly because that would make it easy for a Server to manipulate it. But if you higher the threshhold you have to unlink the Servers which would lead to the same state as inbefore the linking. Some big Servers and some very very small. A good example what is Happening if you open a Server is Elona reach (EU). It was opened some weeks ago and suddenly spiked in Performance. We went up a Tier (from t6 (last Server all the time) to t5, stayed there for one week and suddenly made a complete drop in perfomance and will return to t6 this friday. Now everything is as stale as always. I really have no idea what to do, to effectivley solve most of the WvW Problems but neither have i seen any good proposal by anyone in this Forum. So likely the devs have no good idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Alim.4176 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Ricky.4706 said: > oh geez, don't go there - truth is they are my peeps, and i recognize that they are the best from gw1 working together in gw2 ...BUT that doesn't mean I approve of 1 server ruining the game for everyone else. It's time to let go of the training wheels, the joke is over...please let the rest of us enjoy the game. Yall have no idea how much nonsense we have to put up with in lower tiers ....not because of blackgate, but because this server vs server system is not at all good and harming the game for everyone else. - At this point, I would expect blackgate to support this, I know they have no intentions of ruining the game for everyone else, but all the same "Playing along as if you are the best around" isn't helping and is making an old joke stale. In the end you only harm your server - because you fight the same stale fights - you harm the game experience for everyone else that has to deal with these insanely outnumbered fights, and you harm anet because this isn't a respectable game mode anymore. > > what wvw needs is to be gvg - structured guild fights backed up with random high ranking playeers filling in the blanks...... that's fair. > > and how is blackgate exactly ruining the game for everyone below their tier ? easy - everyone who takes this server score serious is trying to stack up to fight blackgate - but they can't get the same coverage - so everyone under THEM is stuck fighting some bloated server ( and still slapping them silly when they all log off to go to sleep lol )- by the time you get to t4 - where I'm at, You can't walk on the field without facing at minimum 5 vs 1 on prime time, and have to wait till they go to sleep to have a balanced fight - not even to have an advantage - just even numbers. > > I really don't care about this number 1 spot, tbh, i didn't have fun the little while I spent in those big fights - yall take it too serious....and apparently still do. > At least in a gvg open world format - ranking high will be the guilds problems that want to rank, not me, a roamer that just likes to play balanced games. The higher I rank, the better the fights I get ..mostly fair fights. which is what i paid for but am not getting. I don't want to join another server trying to beat blackgate...i want to abolish servers trying to beat blackgate along with blackgate. But than WvW would become a exclusive RvR mode like in any other decent MMO. ANet has already said many many times over they wanted GW2 to be a super casual inclusive game. Where players of all types can just come to and be successful. If GvG became a thing, than ANet's whole forte of GW2 would be shattered. Which is why they refuse to support it. Even tho it is one of the pillars to improve WvW. Sorry to say but if you want meaningful and competitive RvR action. You are just going to have play another title that supports it. Because GW2 is primary a MMO for players who don't like the status quo, grind/skill based MMOs. GW2 was a MMO that anyone can be successful in. After HoT and PoF ANet has completely reiterated on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky.4706 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 unfortunately I understand what you are saying, the whole logistics is wrong and convoluted. There is nothing casual about 5-10 vs 1, there is nothing more grindy than having to get, and carry extra sets of gear to change your build for wvw...add to this pve, raid, pvp, wvw, and fractals are all completely different builds - the current set up is extremely opposite of the goals you say they have. This is really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Loosmaster.8263 said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > Full should be locked for transfers. > > > > I think his point was to allow transfers to full servers and waste your gems because now there is such a large que you can't play, lol. > > Being on a locked server, the queues aren't nearly as long. And for us, mainly reset, or one server, are the only queues. > > I don't know. Maybe it WOULD incentivize people to destack... That was a part of the idea, yes. Essentially let people spend lots of gems to transfer to any server they want, but still be limited by the queue's. At some point, when randomly overfilled to the brim server realizes it has almost 1000 people in queue's on reset, and it is literally impossible for people to play together with guild mates etc, that free transfer to a medium server starts looking interesting. So what happens if the guilds transfers out ? A server queue'd with randoms, pip farmers, daily hunters etc. Curious if that would work at all ? Can just imagine Mag smelling the blood/bags in the water and come swimming for the kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerby.1069 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 > @Seffen.2875 said: > I will not Transfer since i am losing 3 weeks of pips. Which is, as Long as i do not have my legendary armour just too much. Everyone who knows about the mode and cares about it stopped reading at this point bro.... "Pips are more important than seeking balance" - That's exactly what anet wants you to think, so you are complacent with them doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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