Mahou.3924 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @Edelweiss.4261 said: > >You even plainly misrepresent Ohoni's position. > > I've argued with Ohoni for years, Tex is accurately representing Ohoni's beliefs. > Yeah, no. It's elistist vs "pleb" arguring 101. Just with more passive-aggressive hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umut.5471 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 There's no such thing as appealing to WoW players because 90% of them are hardcore fans and think WoW is made by gods and there will not be any better MMORPG. GW2 with all those expansions developed a lot as an MMORPG, let those fans play their games. What I trying to say is GW2 has its own style, it doesn't have to be a copy of WoW. On the other hand I tried a lot of Korean MMORPGs as well but all of them had p2w mechanics to some level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majic.4801 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I think I'll go with GW2 being a "fun ordeal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalibri.5861 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > > > > > @Harper.4173 said: > > > > > > Here's a new concept - not everyone's a winner. > > > > > > > > > > Fun concept, not at all relevant here. This is a game, there's no benefit to them kittening off any more customers than they have to. They want to provide a fun experience to everyone, even the ones who "aren't a winner." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No but what they said, that you've conveniently ignored is entirely relevant. A game is an interactive medium that relies on people executing upon set interactions. Even the most basic of games Snake adheres tot his and guess what ? There's not multiple modes for that, it' has a baseline difficulty (much like GW2) that expands upon itself the longer you play. > > > > > > > > It's almost like if you're still unable in stories at this point in the games life, it's not the game. Maybe just maybe instead of being that guy who tries to childproof literally everything until the game is nothing but an plug and play slideshow you should advocate people actually LEARNING. > > > > > > I advocate people playing how they'd like to play, not shoehorning them into how *I'd* want them to play. > > > > No, you advocate literally watering down content to the lowest possible denominator and have said as much in this very thread. > > > > > > Yes, same thing. Keep in mind that I also advocate allowing *options* for players to increase difficulty that *want* that experience, but yes, the lowest available denomination for should be for the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator is to load into a map and literally not do anything. You don't balance difficulty against the lowest common denominator. The game should be challenging, and at some point, there has to be a place for 'get good'. Finding the difficulty balance is hard in an MMO, but I wouldn't be entirely against a difficulty slider for instances if the rewards were tempered accordingly. I don't actually like the idea, but I also know that some players simply don't want to be challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Kalibri.5861 said: > The lowest common denominator is to load into a map and literally not do anything. There are players out there who find even login rewards difficult as logging in is really hard. I think sending rewards to players via email so they don't even have to login would work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Mahou.3924 said: > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > @Edelweiss.4261 said: > > >You even plainly misrepresent Ohoni's position. > > > > I've argued with Ohoni for years, Tex is accurately representing Ohoni's beliefs. > > > > Yeah, no. It's elistist vs "pleb" arguring 101. Just with more passive-aggressive hostility. I'm hardly an "elitist" but thanks for the label. I'm just a person who sees games for being an interactive medium which requires a modicum of self awareness and learning, especially in RPG systems whose entire point is character and story progression. That means that while being a humble street urchin at the start of the journey (Human Commoner) may work for level 1 it certainly doesn't work for level 80+ If that's too complex for people to understand and you'd rather play the buzzword and shifting the goalpost campaign more power to you. Just keep it out of objective discourse about whether the story is solo-able or not. As is we know the stories are designed to be done by singulary entities with the option to group up should that strike your fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Kalibri.5861 said: > The lowest common denominator is to load into a map and literally not do anything. You don't balance difficulty against the lowest common denominator. The game should be challenging, and at some point, there has to be a place for 'get good'. Finding the difficulty balance is hard in an MMO, but I wouldn't be entirely against a difficulty slider for instances if the rewards were tempered accordingly. I don't actually like the idea, but I also know that some players simply don't want to be challenged. Fair enough, scarecrow wrangler, lowest *reasonable* denominator. Basically content that like 60-70% of players can pass without dying, 95% can pass with a few deaths, and only a very tiny portion get "stuck" and can't figure out how to get past it at all. It would be designed so that any *reasonably well intentioned* build and any skills beyond "stand there and auto attack" would be sufficient to the task, even if that would include *"mostly* stand there and spam attacks off cooldown, maybe get out of the fire from time to time, you know, if that's your thing." Again, if you want more challenge than that, and that's fine, there should be optional flags to engage that sort fo content as well, but really story should be for players that want to progress the story, not players who want to overcome significant challenges. > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kalibri.5861 said: > > The lowest common denominator is to load into a map and literally not do anything. > > There are players out there who find even login rewards difficult as logging in is really hard. I think sending rewards to players via email so they don't even have to login would work very well. I've never once heard anyone describe log-in rewards as "too hard." "Inconvenient," perhaps, or "unavailable" for players that cannot reliably log into the game on a daily basis because their lives do not allow that level of flexibility, but that should not be conflated with "challenge." > @TexZero.7910 said: > I'm just a person who sees games for being an interactive medium which requires a modicum of self awareness and learning, especially in RPG systems whose entire point is character and story progression. That means that while being a humble street urchin at the start of the journey (Human Commoner) may work for level 1 it certainly doesn't work for level 80+ Yes, but what you describe there is *character* progression, and I think it's reasonable that level 80 content should be scaled for level 80 characters, but if you're going to require a certain level of *human skill growth* fro a player then you need to do a better job of training those skills than to simply fail players who don't acquire them. Nintendo games have historically done an exceptional job at this, designing content to encourage gradual skill progression and to clue players in to their full range of options, rather than just chucking them into the fire pit and seeing what they do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @jmrathbun.7263 said: > I read that AN had been making the game more difficult out of deference to WoW refugees who like things more hard-core. Not every player agrees. Older players, those coming back after a vacation of a year or more, casual players looking for the story more than an exhausting ordeal may feel overwhelmed and drop out. > > I've previously completed three toons here: an ele, a warr, and a hunter. None of them was a world-beater, but I had fun with each. I took a few years off and returned recently because I heard the Path of Fire expansion was worthwhile. I've been struggling to relearn my ele and get him back on the story path. It took me several days to progress to the point of making it through Dry Top. I found myself playing the World Summit story, which I had previously completed on at least one of my later toons. > > My ele's a bit of a glass cannon. That works in team play and in open world if I choose my ground and don't try to tackle too many enemies at once. In each of the story instances, I've needed a tank and healer to survive. AN thoughtfully provided such until the climax dragon fight in the world tree. That was catastrophic! > > There's an overwhelming amount of adversity in that scenario. Damage comes from all directions, you have to kill the three shoots and then hit the dragon, rinse and repeat for a total of at least four cycles. You're constantly being crippled so you can't run away from damage. And when you inevitably die, it offers to restart you from a check point but DOESN'T RESTORE YOUR ARMOR! > > So there I am, running around stark naked, getting off a couple of hits before they knock me down and stomp me again. It was the opposite of fun. > > This is a plea to broaden your base by making the story instances easier. As regards the open world part of the game, Dry Top is a horror for a soloist, which is what you'll be if you go in > off-peak hours. And it's a long, dreary way back from the nearest waypoint if you screw up. > > Maybe you would consider some settings for casual vs hard-core players that would make the game more fun for those of us who are less talented or driven. That's most of the world, btw. Lol where did you read that anet has been making the game easier LOL. Joke post right? No seriously, speaking story content is easily soloable, you need to sit down and examine your build and what your doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > Yes, but what you describe there is *character* progression, and I think it's reasonable that level 80 content should be scaled for level 80 characters, but if you're going to require a certain level of *human skill growth* fro a player then you need to do a better job of training those skills than to simply fail players who don't acquire them. Nintendo games have historically done an exceptional job at this, designing content to encourage gradual skill progression and to clue players in to their full range of options, rather than just chucking them into the fire pit and seeing what they do about it. Gonna need a real example of this. I've yet to see a mechanic not explain in any story content so prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > Yes, but what you describe there is *character* progression, and I think it's reasonable that level 80 content should be scaled for level 80 characters, but if you're going to require a certain level of *human skill growth* fro a player then you need to do a better job of training those skills than to simply fail players who don't acquire them. Nintendo games have historically done an exceptional job at this, designing content to encourage gradual skill progression and to clue players in to their full range of options, rather than just chucking them into the fire pit and seeing what they do about it. > > > Gonna need a real example of this. I've yet to see a mechanic not explain in any story content so prove it. There isn't people can't be arsed to sit down and read tooltips and listen to npcs. It was the same thing in HoT with pocket raptors and people inability to learn to use the damn dodge button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalibri.5861 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 .> @Ohoni.6057 said: > > @Kalibri.5861 said: > > The lowest common denominator is to load into a map and literally not do anything. You don't balance difficulty against the lowest common denominator. The game should be challenging, and at some point, there has to be a place for 'get good'. Finding the difficulty balance is hard in an MMO, but I wouldn't be entirely against a difficulty slider for instances if the rewards were tempered accordingly. I don't actually like the idea, but I also know that some players simply don't want to be challenged. > > Fair enough, scarecrow wrangler, lowest *reasonable* denominator. Basically content that like 60-70% of players can pass without dying, 95% can pass with a few deaths, and only a very tiny portion get "stuck" and can't figure out how to get past it at all. It would be designed so that any *reasonably well intentioned* build and any skills beyond "stand there and auto attack" would be sufficient to the task, even if that would include *"mostly* stand there and spam attacks off cooldown, maybe get out of the fire from time to time, you know, if that's your thing." I only challenge 'lowest common denominator' because if you try to balance against that then you'll constantly be chasing it. Truly though, I'd be surprised if your numbers weren't broadly reflective of current story instance completion statistics. Eater of Souls and end boss fights might be an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > Yes, but what you describe there is *character* progression, and I think it's reasonable that level 80 content should be scaled for level 80 characters, but if you're going to require a certain level of *human skill growth* fro a player then you need to do a better job of training those skills than to simply fail players who don't acquire them. Nintendo games have historically done an exceptional job at this, designing content to encourage gradual skill progression and to clue players in to their full range of options, rather than just chucking them into the fire pit and seeing what they do about it. > > > Gonna need a real example of this. I've yet to see a mechanic not explain in any story content so prove it. . . . I'm not really sure what the answer you're looking for would even look like, you're asking me to prove a negative, "point to where there is a lack of something." Well I mean the best I could ever possibly do there is to say "everywhere," I suppose. I'll ask you the opposite question, where in this game's content does it explain to the player how and when to use: Evade (this one I'll give you, there's a mission for it in all starting zones) Stun Breakers Condi Cleanse Interrupts Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) Breakbars Also, it's fair to factor into your answers that some players will play PoF without owning HoT, so any examples within HoT content is only half a solution. I do think that "Q" abilities were fairly well explained during season 3, but I actually don't recall them ever being explained in PoF, but they may have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Kalibri.5861 said: > I only challenge 'lowest common denominator' because if you try to balance against that then you'll constantly be chasing it. Truly though, I'd be surprised if your numbers weren't broadly reflective of current story instance completion statistics. Eater of Souls and end boss fights might be an anomaly. Possibly true, but then those anomalies can be hard walls in some cases. Smoothing them out is important too. Again though, I saw "lowest common denominator" on the assumption that we're all taking the thought experiment seriously, that we aren't looking to play reductio ad absurdum on it, so it doesn't "literally" mean the lowest possible state, but rather "the lowest state that a reasonable amount of well-meaning players could genuinely find themselves in." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 On one hand, I agree that content should not be too hard. My personal too hard is when you have to bring a special class for an event to the table like in raids. Other people may have lower exceptions, some higher. On the other hand, I am always amazed when people attempt to facetank a champion chak lobber and do not dodge out of the blue field the potentate generates despite it bringing certain doom. If you die a few times in such event when you are new, ok. But observation and mimicry are human nature, it´s the way we learn things. I assume that things sink in after a time through effort, learning and repeating, but I am often wrong with this assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > Evade (this one I'll give you, there's a mission for it in all starting zones) > Stun Breakers - Tool tip on the skill > Condi Cleanse - Tool tip on the skill > Interrupts - Literally on the skill again > Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) - Literally on the skill, and real world gameplay > Breakbars - HoT act 1 with the cavalier and the NPC who yells at you to stun it or get out of the way. > > Also, it's fair to factor into your answers that some players will play PoF without owning HoT, so any examples within HoT content is only half a solution. > > I do think that "Q" abilities were fairly well explained during season 3, but I actually don't recall them ever being explained in PoF, but they may have been. Also, if you're complaining about story and jump chapters you've got what was coming to you. That again isnt on the game. I dont complain that i know the ending to Sherlock Holmes because i skipped to the last chapter and missed all the build up to the reveal, neither should any player here complain about a lack of in-game knowledge because they willingly ignored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @battledrone.8315 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @battledrone.8315 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > > > > I do agree with the OP that a lot of story content is not meant to be soloed by a lot of character types. > > > > > > > > Utter nonsense. > > > > > > > > The entirety of the story is built upon being solo content. Every class has the ability to solo literally all parts of the story, you just may have to break your own "habbits" or comfort zone and use different weapons and utilities. > > > > > > > > That doesn't make it not meant for solo, it makes it good design as it requires players to learn their classes. > > > > > > > ...and that makes it bad for a game , that needs to keep players as long, as possible > > > if you expect all players to reach those standards, then you really dont belong in a mainstream mmo > > > it looks like anet is finally smelling the roses, but its prolly too late now > > > > Are you saying story fights should be balanced around the worst player with the worst build? Because thats a terrible idea. It would mean anyone with even a half decent build would blaze through the fight with absolutely 0 effort. > > > > Fights need to be balanced around the average casual player. If your build or skill level is below average for a casual you should need to either ask for help or make a couple of changes to get a bit more defense. You cant be totally unwilling to make any compromise whatsoever to your build and then say its too hard. > > > >if i cant finish the story with any given class /weapon combo, then those weapons/classes shouldnt be in the game at all > alternatively, there should be a big warning on those set > i can solo a 10 point boss, but im not allowed to continue the story? makes no sense at all > didnt you read the hype numbers they boasted with at pof launch? 430 mio hearts in 5 years..thats only 1,5 mio characters to top level > this game is in trouble Nothing is stopping you from finishing the story? Other than yourself maybe...if you refuse to use the tools in the game to help you to do it.. Also hearts arent needed to max characters to 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > >Are you saying story fights should be balanced around the worst player with the worst build? Because thats a terrible idea. It would mean anyone with even a half decent build would blaze through the fight with absolutely 0 effort. > > I think there are ways to satisfy both. One is to design encounters with "safety nets," so that good players can fight them and do well, clearing them through being good at what they do, but failing that, if the encounter is not going well at all, mechanisms could kick in that would "save" a bad player, giving him an easier comeback. Likely this would happen after one or more deaths, some bonus opportunity to shift the tide, but some of the stories of people fighting the Devourer of Souls were just heartbreaking. > > I agree with dynamic difficulty settings in games and think they are really useful. Gw2 sometimes does this in LW2 having NPCS shout hints ect. But this game already has them to some degree with the ability to add defensive gear, traits or utilities to your built OR to bring more players to help out. If anet were to spent time and money coding further scaling difficulty setting it would be hard to justify the cost for the few players who refuse to use the methods already in game, considering most players already can complete content solo, even if it takes a few tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > Stun Breakers - Tool tip on the skill > Condi Cleanse - Tool tip on the skill > Interrupts - Literally on the skill again > Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) - Literally on the skill, and real world gameplay > Breakbars - HoT act 1 with the cavalier and the NPC who yells at you to stun it or get out of the way. Your answers sort of prove my point. The tooltips for abilities sometimes vaguely describe what they do, and that may be good enough for you or me, but the game never actually *explains* to the player, either explicitly or implicitly, when and how these abilities are best used. Players are expected to figure this all out themselves. You might know that an ability *is* a stunbreak or *can* interrupt, but you have to figure out the best ways to apply them. > Also, if you're complaining about story and jump chapters you've got what was coming to you. That again isnt on the game. Of course it is, when they are sold separately. Players who buy only PoF have to be treated as new players, and retaught options that they may have missed in HoT. It's like how each new sequel in a franchise still needs to explain to players how to use the basic functions of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Something they could do is add a better tutorial where a player gets a variety skills unlocked, like the pre-made pvp characters, then you fight some enemies there and learn how to play. Many games do this, they give you more and better skills in the tutorial then find an "excuse" to take your tools away so you start fresh. So when fighting the first tutorial bosses you won't only auto attack but have a variety of skills instead, then if you get downed you will port to your mentor and he will revive you, similar to how Balthazar doesn't kill you in your first fight but instead he revives you once you are downed. The bosses then can have more interesting attacks that teach you how to dodge, how to CC, how to heal and so on. It's used a lot in games and in a game were you can get to 80 instantly with a booster (and then have no clue how to play the game) it's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > Stun Breakers - Tool tip on the skill > > Condi Cleanse - Tool tip on the skill > > Interrupts - Literally on the skill again > > Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) - Literally on the skill, and real world gameplay > > Breakbars - HoT act 1 with the cavalier and the NPC who yells at you to stun it or get out of the way. > > > Your answers sort of prove my point. The tooltips for abilities sometimes vaguely describe what they do, and that may be good enough for you or me, but the game never actually *explains* to the player, either explicitly or implicitly, when and how these abilities are best used. Players are expected to figure this all out themselves. You might know that an ability *is* a stunbreak or *can* interrupt, but you have to figure out the best ways to apply them. > > > Also, if you're complaining about story and jump chapters you've got what was coming to you. That again isnt on the game. > > Of course it is, when they are sold separately. Players who buy only PoF have to be treated as new players, and retaught options that they may have missed in HoT. It's like how each new sequel in a franchise still needs to explain to players how to use the basic functions of the game. Oh dear lord..... We're going to insist that people don't have a grasp of whatever mother tongue they have the game in and expect it to be a game issue now, seriously ? The "GAME" doesnt need to tell you when to use any skill, the combat isn't so rigid as to require it. You can quite literally go through the game however you want without once needing to know each specific combo-field, cc or even utility skill. This isn't a Quick Time game and to treat it like such is just pandering to the wrong crowd with the wrong argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > Stun Breakers - Tool tip on the skill > > > Condi Cleanse - Tool tip on the skill > > > Interrupts - Literally on the skill again > > > Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) - Literally on the skill, and real world gameplay > > > Breakbars - HoT act 1 with the cavalier and the NPC who yells at you to stun it or get out of the way. > > > > > > Your answers sort of prove my point. The tooltips for abilities sometimes vaguely describe what they do, and that may be good enough for you or me, but the game never actually *explains* to the player, either explicitly or implicitly, when and how these abilities are best used. Players are expected to figure this all out themselves. You might know that an ability *is* a stunbreak or *can* interrupt, but you have to figure out the best ways to apply them. > > > > > Also, if you're complaining about story and jump chapters you've got what was coming to you. That again isnt on the game. > > > > Of course it is, when they are sold separately. Players who buy only PoF have to be treated as new players, and retaught options that they may have missed in HoT. It's like how each new sequel in a franchise still needs to explain to players how to use the basic functions of the game. > > Oh dear lord..... > > We're going to insist that people don't have a grasp of whatever mother tongue they have the game in and expect it to be a game issue now, seriously ? > The "GAME" doesnt need to tell you when to use any skill, the combat isn't so rigid as to require it. You can quite literally go through the game however you want without once needing to know each specific combo-field, cc or even utility skill. This isn't a Quick Time game and to treat it like such is just pandering to the wrong crowd with the wrong argument. Again, clearly this is entirely outside of how you experience a game, and you are incapable of empathizing with anyone different than yourself, and that's ok. You don't have to. You don't have to understand why other players might need these things, just accept as a fact that they *do,* and then step out of their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > Again, clearly this is entirely outside of how you experience a game, and you are incapable of empathizing with anyone different than yourself, and that's ok. You don't have to. You don't have to understand why other players might need these things, just accept as a fact that they *do,* and then step out of their way. And that's where you're wrong. I'm perfectly able to empathize with people who genuinely have troubles with the game and express a desire to LEARN from and UNDERSTAND their mistakes. I have no desire what so ever to have the entire game cater to those who actively refuse play the game and expect the game to be nothing more than a cinematic experience with their character given the ability 1 shot everything they come across. Notice the difference between what your goal does, kills the community and the interactive part of the Game and contrast that to having various sites, guides, guilds and a playerbase to interact and game with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilkemia.8507 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > I'm not really sure what the answer you're looking for would even look like, you're asking me to prove a negative, "point to where there is a lack of something." Well I mean the best I could ever possibly do there is to say "everywhere," I suppose. I'll ask you the opposite question, where in this game's content does it explain to the player how and when to use: > > Evade (this one I'll give you, there's a mission for it in all starting zones) > Stun Breakers > Condi Cleanse > Interrupts > Combo Fields (and their potential common interactions) > Breakbars > > Also, it's fair to factor into your answers that some players will play PoF without owning HoT, so any examples within HoT content is only half a solution. > > I do think that "Q" abilities were fairly well explained during season 3, but I actually don't recall them ever being explained in PoF, but they may have been. You could also add emotes/roleplay (grey text) to this. Granted, it's not really necessary save for at least one heart quest and one or two events I know of, but as far as I'm aware, the game never even indicates these exist, or how many there are or how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > @Harper.4173 said: > > Here's a new concept - not everyone's a winner. > > Fun concept, not at all relevant here. This is a game, there's no benefit to them kittening off any more customers than they have to. They want to provide a fun experience to everyone, even the ones who "aren't a winner." > > The concept is *fully relevant here*. So because this is a game everyone has to automatically be a winner? There has to be challenge in order to have accomplishment. If you want to eliminate challenge and failure might as well make GW2 a movie. Wanting to provide a fun experience is a good goal - but you can't really make it so easy that nobody fails - otherwise the concept of an INTERACTIVE game that provides a challenge is mute. Just make long cutscenes with no player input - then nobody can fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 meh, not worth the trouble ill just reactivate my sub in a couple of other mmos id rather go raiding for some shinies, than wasting more time on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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