[PvP]Elementalist is a pure PvE only class

[Xibalbar.7459]

> @Rednaxela.6018 said:

> > @Xibalbar.7459 said:

> > How your weaver fits in any high challenging pvp-match? There is no role you can fill like other classes doing it better. And the fresh air weaver spec will be cutted soon enough, just because of to much mulitple skills can be used in same time.

>

> Is using many skills at the same time forbidden? And if you think ele can't fill a role, why should it be nerfed.

> Well what is a "high challenging" pvp-match for you?

> In my opinion, ats are much more challenging than any ranked or unranked games (not the first or second match in any tournament, for sure).

> As fresh air weaver you are able to burst bunker firebrands from 100 to at least 40~30% while staying ranged. I won many team fights, just because of being able to this. I guess this is kinda role ele can fill.

>

> > And i wants to see you in a match mirage is sitting on you. Let us see your rank if you did 200 matches on fresh weaver and not 30, we will see how great it worked for you.

>

> Yes I totally agree that condi mirage is your hardcounter, but so what. Many professions/builds has hard counters, try to avoid fights against them or do a sneaky burst.

>

> > Footage and stuff like this showing up what you did good, but never what you did not great. I was beating with my build also some very great players by simple one shotted them, but it doesnt say anything usefull about the weaver. And he is currently at 1770 with 30 games. Seems like tanking the mmr, like most people do atm in the pvp-scene.

>

> For me, one shooting great player is pretty usefull. Killing a necro within 2 seconds is definitley better than fighting bunker comp vs bunker comp for 5 mins.

> And yea, I m just uploading decent matches/gameplay, cause my intention is to entertain people. I guess everyone knows that my win rate isn't 100%.

> Btw I m not "tanking" my mmr by playing in/of primetime what ever. Solo qing is really annoying so I prefer playing duo q in unranked.

>

>

>

 

In a competive match no one will ignore your damage and you are squishy enough for beeing killed in a second with 1 decent burst. There is a reason ele is not in any current team. And this teamfights happens only in lower tiers, normaly if every node is contested we will find a problem with your role. You cant bunker a node, you cant win any 1v1 against a good player, you are not mobile enough compared to mesmer and thief.

 

Cant fill a decent role means not something broken needs to be fixed. There is no counterplay to instacasts and no animation like air/air and scepter 2. The only thing this build does is high damage, but what you do can a rev even better.

[Rednaxela.6018]

> @Xibalbar.7459 said:2

> In a competive match no one will ignore your damage and you are squishy enough for beeing killed in a second with 1 decent burst. There is a reason ele is not in any current team. And this teamfights happens only in lower tiers, normaly if every node is contested we will find a problem with your role. You cant bunker a node, you cant win any 1v1 against a good player, you are not mobile enough compared to mesmer and thief.

 

Okay, so you are saying ats arent competive?! Just tell me something that is competive, please. And sure you can argue that every game i did in ranked or in ats is lower tier, but then only the top 50 gw2 pvp player can do competive games... cause i did enough matches against top 250 teams.

"You cant bunker a node", true. "You cant win any 1v1 against a good player", completely wrong. You get hardcountered by mirages and condi thiefs. Rest professions are possible. I ve done enough 1v1s against decent players. "You are not mobile enough compared to mesmer and thief", still mobile enough to +1 any comp. Infight perma superspeed, teleport, 40% moving speed by swiftness and fgs.

 

> Cant fill a decent role means not something broken needs to be fixed. There is no counterplay to instacasts and no animation like air/air and scepter 2. The only thing this build does is high damage, but what you do can a rev even better.

If you want to fix insta skills, you can completly delete scepter.

Equilibrium, revs main burst source, is gone. You cant compare revenants burst to weavers one. If you do, it isnt worth to continue.

 

 

 

[Xibalbar.7459]

> @Rednaxela.6018 said:

> > @Xibalbar.7459 said:2

> > In a competive match no one will ignore your damage and you are squishy enough for beeing killed in a second with 1 decent burst. There is a reason ele is not in any current team. And this teamfights happens only in lower tiers, normaly if every node is contested we will find a problem with your role. You cant bunker a node, you cant win any 1v1 against a good player, you are not mobile enough compared to mesmer and thief.

>

> Okay, so you are saying ats arent competive?! Just tell me something that is competive, please. And sure you can argue that every game i did in ranked or in ats is lower tier, but then only the top 50 gw2 pvp player can do competive games... cause i did enough matches against top 250 teams.

> "You cant bunker a node", true. "You cant win any 1v1 against a good player", completely wrong. You get hardcountered by mirages and condi thiefs. Rest professions are possible. I ve done enough 1v1s against decent players. "You are not mobile enough compared to mesmer and thief", still mobile enough to +1 any comp. Infight perma superspeed, teleport, 40% moving speed by swiftness and fgs.

>

> > Cant fill a decent role means not something broken needs to be fixed. There is no counterplay to instacasts and no animation like air/air and scepter 2. The only thing this build does is high damage, but what you do can a rev even better.

> If you want to fix insta skills, you can completly delete scepter.

> Equilibrium, revs main burst source, is gone. You cant compare revenants burst to weavers one. If you do, it isnt worth to continue.

>

>

>

 

Instacasts like necros f2-f5 are close to 0 counterplay and it was same with revs proc., doesnt matter how you compare these skills, they have nothing to do with competive gameplay. In my opinion they just needs to be complete deleted.

 

And again, what a ele on fresh air can, is something rev and thief can do better. Your sustain against condis is more weak and your 1v1 matchups against good players wont be this strong like farming monkey`s in gold. Show me someone whos stupid enough to ignore a fresh air in a competive match........

[Grimreaper.5370]

You can make a video with any class showing how it performs vs incompetent players and it will look strong. But the reality is weaver still has no place in the meta, it has no role to fill where it excels better than other meta builds.

 

The global cd on attunents greatly limits the skill cap of the class. This is my biggest personal gripe with weaver.

[Zlater.6789]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @Zlater.6789 said:

> > yeah, I agree that this post is silly. Tempest had a lock on the bunker/healing spot for a very long time, this was true for both pvp and wvw. It was so good it was strictly Required in any good group comp. It's refreshing that there are finally other alternatives available to us.

> > Maybe soon they will give us an alternative to mesmer too :3

>

> What alternative? You must have missed the last unofficial UGO tournaments with zero eles or the lack of ele at all above silver...or the fact that any team with an ele in it has a great shot at losing

 

Yeah, I think thats great, did you not see everything before it where there was zero bunker heal guardians, zero bunker heal thieves, zero bunker heal engis, zero bunker heal necros, zero bunker heal rangers, zero bunker heal warriors and zero bunker heal revenants?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Zlater.6789 said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @Zlater.6789 said:

> > > yeah, I agree that this post is silly. Tempest had a lock on the bunker/healing spot for a very long time, this was true for both pvp and wvw. It was so good it was strictly Required in any good group comp. It's refreshing that there are finally other alternatives available to us.

> > > Maybe soon they will give us an alternative to mesmer too :3

> >

> > What alternative? You must have missed the last unofficial UGO tournaments with zero eles or the lack of ele at all above silver...or the fact that any team with an ele in it has a great shot at losing

>

> Yeah, I think thats great, did you not see everything before it where there was zero bunker heal guardians, zero bunker heal thieves, zero bunker heal engis, zero bunker heal necros, zero bunker heal rangers, zero bunker heal warriors and zero bunker heal revenants?

 

So from team pocket healer pre-PoF.....you get to be the alternative of the benched alternative covering for the alternative having his shot at the last 2 m of the already won game....amazing...impressive ....**meanwhile the last time I lost to an ele was in...hmmm...2014 I believe**

[Furious.2867]

> @Rednaxela.6018 said:

> Well about risk-reward relation, fresh air weaver is completely fine.

>

> Just watch this and tell me weaver is useless.

> Btw those enemies aren't Gold plebs.

 

OMG Saitaira OP nerf please ;)

 

I've always enjoyed watching your youtube videos and love seeing Weaver representation in ATs. They are almost non existent higher up the AT ladder in NA.

[Razor.6392]

So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

 

ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

>

> ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

 

https://imgur.com/yoNWUJX

https://imgur.com/yXERBN1

 

I have merely made a thread to share my opinions about ele and nothing that has been said against...**prove the opposite of what I am saying**

- It's nothing but a pve class

- A glorified +1 wannabe spec being the worst out there out of all specs used to +1

 

Now I don't actively play **but I tend to play long enough to reach plat/gold each season for these same childish reasons**...because apparently you need a badge to voice the obvious and the truth, really I don't need a badge to know that what I am saying it's true, the sad truth established since 2012 about ele.

 

Remember @Xeph? Team paradigm mesmer from 2013, before leaving the game he left a thread on the forum about balance design in GW2 and the main point about ele was:

-" everything is about healburst or die"

 

This class has been nothing but bunker or die since launch..or the alternative +1 hero that lose to everything if sneezed on. My last game was one week ago or so, met again @Maxater who around 2015 was one the best fresh air eles, he quitted and recently came back; met him during a ranked match and.....**I virtually deleted him from the match with 12 kill just on him...my soulbeast spec obliterated him at every turn , be it 1v1 or during teamfights** , his team was basically playing in 4. How did I do it?..Already explained before, the arcane blocks/reflect can't stop unblockable dmg **( something fresh air ele lacks respect to other +1 specs )** and that unblockable dmg can come from well over 1200 range, outside your range at 900....it's that easy

 

AT? ...almost all old generation players have abandoned GW2 and right now all you see mostly is raid guilds abusing some OP specs for reward farm..no wonder an average fresh air ele can get away with it...for the last 4 years this spec wasn't considered more than a yolo fun spec for soloq...but now you have such a level of players that this spec is considered tournament worthy...

 

P.S

heed the words of an actual good player https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17500/too-many-bad-players-in-high-elo-games#latest

Current quality of players is below hotjoin levels respect to 4-5 years ago..

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Rednaxela.6018 said:

> Well about risk-reward relation, fresh air weaver is completely fine.

>

> Just watch this and tell me weaver is useless.

> Btw those enemies aren't Gold plebs.

 

A pointless gimmick...a zerg spec...you're basically a yolospec hugging 2-3 people at all times and insta die when sneezed on for more than 10s

-the match is the equivalent of a hotjoin match from 2013 in terms of quality

-the exact same tactic can be used virtually on anybody else with way better results and actually viable against competent players

 

You may enjoy it...**but this is no worth $40 tag or even the result of 2 years design**

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > Weaver makes a pretty decent backliner in WvW. That much I can tell for certain because I play one. So your claim is demonstrably false.

> >

> > The main issue here is : **risk-reward** relation for each class, the harder is a class to play...the higher should be the reward. We're talking about fairness and objective balance..but all we're getting atm is heavily biased design process. You're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing ....you wanna play backliner weaver just to support your claims and for what? self-gratification reading the comments of random people on the forum , of how much they're in "awe" of your l33t skills?

> >

> > No sane commander would ever opt for an ele over a guardian that can heal/support several times better or a scourge that deal several times your dmg...so what's left? boons? we have heralds/chronos...so in the end can you explain me in all honestly what's the realistic reason for all this masochistic difficulty?

> >

> > This class was supposed to be jack of all trades and pay that with their inability to focus in any particular aspect...now we have a below average jack of all trades that fails even at being...lol jack of all trades because other professions get to be jack of all trades + specialised roles at the same time and despite all this...people still come down with their white-knighting ...like wow

>

> No sane commander will ever be faced with a choice of ele or a guard. They serve a totally different purpose and, believe it or not, they both have their place. And no, no frontliner can deal anything remotely near my damage, because as a backline I can run a glass cannon build whereas the frontline guards use much more defensive gear out of necessity.

>

> And no, I'm not white-knighting. I'm playing a staff Weaver since PoF launched. I'm playing one because I like it, and because it actually is a pretty decent backliner. It has superb range and tons of cleave. It has less utility than a core ele or a Tempest, but so much more damage. It's not jack of all the trades by any measure. It's a ranged glass cannon.

 

And your dmg get easily negated by firebrand heal, boon spam and more...basically a yolospec where you deal arguably more dmg than a core ele using fire/air/arcana staff

**this is no worth 40$ tag and neither can be considered the result of 2 years worth of design**

[Razor.6392]

Let's hear it then, what's supposed to be elementalist's actual role?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Let's hear it then, what's supposed to be elementalist's actual role?

 

Glad that you asked...**unfortunately I am the wrong person..you should ask the devs at this point as they don't know themselves**

 

- There is nothing you do better than the others now

- Your sustain is tied to healing power always

- The fact that you're forced at a set range is always ignored

- You wanna play fresh air as +1 role...you're the worst +1 in gw2

- You wanna play bruiser..you're the worst bruiser in gw2

 

But more than anything why in god's name this community accept something like tempest as realistic spec? Since when elementalist is related to monk?

In the end there is no official answer to your question , all we have now is people playing ele for the sake of it..not because it's worth doing so, nobody so far has given out any reason why a new player should use an ele other than :" oh it's fun to look at"

 

[Razor.6392]

Ele has been, since release, a jack of all trades. That's what I got at least. Glad to know that you're complaining while you don't even know what you want lmao.

[Tora.7214]

while i love weaver, i do admit that the combination of melee range, lowest armor tier and lowest hp pool make for a rather unstable mixture that keeps me from maining it. they fixed sword damage, if anet does something to improve their surviability would probably use it all time

[youle.5824]

xD this is so funny, sometime I feel like weaver fresh air is too op because I can 1v1scourge and spellbreaker so easily, but here some noob is saying ele is weak in pvp?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Ele has been, since release, a jack of all trades. That's what I got at least. Glad to know that you're complaining while you don't even know what you want lmao.

 

It matters not what I want because it won't happen anyway , the discussion is pretty much done

- I bare down the facts that you or nobody else can contest

- You are free to believe what you want but that won't change our reality, we have thousand of players...people play whatever they want...they can consider viable whatever they want....**but in the end the statistics don't lie**

- Looking at the numbers alone : an average fresh air can 1v1 a badly played scourge/spellbreaker in a game environment devoid of actual competition, only a few dozen above average players left...the rest just a bunch of reward farmers

- we're talking about 2 specs out 27 possible combinations and only when used by below average players **but given that's what you see now in pvp..well**

 

Opinions are just that.. opinions

 

As I mained ele for years, I wish anet would be more fair in their balance that's all.....made a thread to express my opinions while showing some facts...I am not here for some childish cockfight over the internet. People can play whatever the hell they like , that won't change reality anyway.

I main other professions also and really wanted ele to become again what it was in gw1...what a shame

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > Weaver makes a pretty decent backliner in WvW. That much I can tell for certain because I play one. So your claim is demonstrably false.

> > >

> > > The main issue here is : **risk-reward** relation for each class, the harder is a class to play...the higher should be the reward. We're talking about fairness and objective balance..but all we're getting atm is heavily biased design process. You're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing ....you wanna play backliner weaver just to support your claims and for what? self-gratification reading the comments of random people on the forum , of how much they're in "awe" of your l33t skills?

> > >

> > > No sane commander would ever opt for an ele over a guardian that can heal/support several times better or a scourge that deal several times your dmg...so what's left? boons? we have heralds/chronos...so in the end can you explain me in all honestly what's the realistic reason for all this masochistic difficulty?

> > >

> > > This class was supposed to be jack of all trades and pay that with their inability to focus in any particular aspect...now we have a below average jack of all trades that fails even at being...lol jack of all trades because other professions get to be jack of all trades + specialised roles at the same time and despite all this...people still come down with their white-knighting ...like wow

> >

> > No sane commander will ever be faced with a choice of ele or a guard. They serve a totally different purpose and, believe it or not, they both have their place. And no, no frontliner can deal anything remotely near my damage, because as a backline I can run a glass cannon build whereas the frontline guards use much more defensive gear out of necessity.

> >

> > And no, I'm not white-knighting. I'm playing a staff Weaver since PoF launched. I'm playing one because I like it, and because it actually is a pretty decent backliner. It has superb range and tons of cleave. It has less utility than a core ele or a Tempest, but so much more damage. It's not jack of all the trades by any measure. It's a ranged glass cannon.

>

> And your dmg get easily negated by firebrand heal, boon spam and more...basically a yolospec where you deal arguably more dmg than a core ele using fire/air/arcana staff

> **this is no worth 40$ tag and neither can be considered the result of 2 years worth of design**

 

All the damage is negated by healing, boonspam and cleanses. Yet backline exists. And it's basically composed of yolospecs. That you refuse to accept it is your own problem and doesn't change the facts.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > Weaver makes a pretty decent backliner in WvW. That much I can tell for certain because I play one. So your claim is demonstrably false.

> > > >

> > > > The main issue here is : **risk-reward** relation for each class, the harder is a class to play...the higher should be the reward. We're talking about fairness and objective balance..but all we're getting atm is heavily biased design process. You're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing ....you wanna play backliner weaver just to support your claims and for what? self-gratification reading the comments of random people on the forum , of how much they're in "awe" of your l33t skills?

> > > >

> > > > No sane commander would ever opt for an ele over a guardian that can heal/support several times better or a scourge that deal several times your dmg...so what's left? boons? we have heralds/chronos...so in the end can you explain me in all honestly what's the realistic reason for all this masochistic difficulty?

> > > >

> > > > This class was supposed to be jack of all trades and pay that with their inability to focus in any particular aspect...now we have a below average jack of all trades that fails even at being...lol jack of all trades because other professions get to be jack of all trades + specialised roles at the same time and despite all this...people still come down with their white-knighting ...like wow

> > >

> > > No sane commander will ever be faced with a choice of ele or a guard. They serve a totally different purpose and, believe it or not, they both have their place. And no, no frontliner can deal anything remotely near my damage, because as a backline I can run a glass cannon build whereas the frontline guards use much more defensive gear out of necessity.

> > >

> > > And no, I'm not white-knighting. I'm playing a staff Weaver since PoF launched. I'm playing one because I like it, and because it actually is a pretty decent backliner. It has superb range and tons of cleave. It has less utility than a core ele or a Tempest, but so much more damage. It's not jack of all the trades by any measure. It's a ranged glass cannon.

> >

> > And your dmg get easily negated by firebrand heal, boon spam and more...basically a yolospec where you deal arguably more dmg than a core ele using fire/air/arcana staff

> > **this is no worth 40$ tag and neither can be considered the result of 2 years worth of design**

>

> All the damage is negated by healing, boonspam and cleanses. Yet backline exists. And it's basically composed of yolospecs. That you refuse to accept it is your own problem and doesn't change the facts.

 

I am asking if that "extra" dmg was worth waiting for 2 years, just some extra dmg, you're just as squishy as before if not more, no fancy new traits ( unblockable? ), no new condi...nothing new...just some extra dmg and some new fancy special effect

[Feanor.2358]

It's a different gameplay and I like it. That's all there is to the "waiting two years".

[Razor.6392]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Ele has been, since release, a jack of all trades. That's what I got at least. Glad to know that you're complaining while you don't even know what you want lmao.

>

> It matters not what I want because it won't happen anyway , the discussion is pretty much done

> - I bare down the facts that you or nobody else can contest

> - You are free to believe what you want but that won't change our reality, we have thousand of players...people play whatever they want...they can consider viable whatever they want....**but in the end the statistics don't lie**

> - Looking at the numbers alone : an average fresh air can 1v1 a badly played scourge/spellbreaker in a game environment devoid of actual competition, only a few dozen above average players left...the rest just a bunch of reward farmers

> - we're talking about 2 specs out 27 possible combinations and only when used by below average players **but given that's what you see now in pvp..well**

>

> Opinions are just that.. opinions

>

> As I mained ele for years, I wish anet would be more fair in their balance that's all.....made a thread to express my opinions while showing some facts...I am not here for some childish cockfight over the internet. People can play whatever the hell they like , that won't change reality anyway.

> I main other professions also and really wanted ele to become again what it was in gw1...what a shame

>

>

 

I've read your post many times, and still don't know what point you're trying to convey. You want elementalists to be something, but you don't know what.

 

As for me, I enjoy elementalist. It's one of the harder classes to use mechanics-wise and doesn't have much margin for error.

 

* Staff ele is the best aoe range nuker in the game

* Scepter ele has the least telegraphed huge azz burst combo in the game,

* Dagger ele can do whatever he wants! Condi, hybrid, power, tanky, mobile, etc.

* Off hand dagger gives offense, focus gives defense

* Sword is kinda like dagger, perhaps way too similar in their roles. But hey, it's fun. It won't be the first time our weapon from the elite spec is underwhelming.

 

It's been known that elementalist is probably the only class that can make good use of every single stat available (celestial). That's unique. It means that, even if it might not be fully optimal for wvw or pve, you can build them any way you want. I love that kind of versatility. Power burst will work. Healbot will work. Condi will work to some extent if you can figure out a build and of course a mix of those stats will also work.

 

Pvp is harder to figure out because even for the 'meta' classes, they only have ONE build (two at most), and the roles are very limited as it is (mobile roamer and +1er, teamfighter, bunker) so naturally, a few classes will feel redundant. When you ask yourself the question "why play X when Y can do it better?" is when you answer "because I play a mean ele, and it's my main class for years".

 

Oh well, keep looking for an answer, and when questioned just redirect people to the devs. That's a good one. Who is to say that only devs can push ele in a good direction? What if devs say "we'll make elementalist into a full healer" would you want that?

 

Edit: Note I'm not saying that elementalist is balanced, especially in pvp. I'm sure they could use further tweaks, but they're almost there. Yes it takes considerably more effort to win with them compared to other easy mode classes, but that's how balance works sadly. I believe that for the effort, the reward should be a little higher than average, but that's hard to balance in itself.

 

 

[Mr Godlike.6098]

(PVP) So we are just after another Monthly AT and it looks like still nobody found reason to use weaver....or ANYTHING ELE RELATED...

 

Yup write more how uniquely good waver is in pvp.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> Tempest: it had to die...it just had to.

 

TIL if you don't like a spec it has to die.

 

[xDudisx.5914]

Ele had its golden age in spvp during celestial meta. After that it went downhill to oblivion.

 

In wvw it is good for roaming and ok for zergs.

[Casty.9743]

(wvw)As ele back line I do most dps 90% of the time, and rarely die. As long as you can position and be smart, i think ele is amazing backline dps spot.

 

pvp f/a scepter is decent.

 

Theres always gonna be BEST in games and worst, cant expect to be best all the time at everything.