[GC] Guild's opinion of PoF gold farming

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The title of the thread has been changed. I had no idea it was a guild from the thread title.

I wondered why, since I had no idea who or what CG was, what the reason the post/thread was brought to this forum from another venue; indicating, to me at least, that the OP found it of importance. Usually, it's a Dev post, or such.

 

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @Wanze.8410 said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

>

> where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

 

I explained below why I mentioned our community - I hope it helps clear any confusion.

 

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> The title of the thread has been changed. I had no idea it was a guild from the thread title.

> I wondered why, since I had no idea who or what CG was, what the reason the post/thread was brought to this forum from another venue; indicating, to me at least, that the OP found it of importance. Usually, it's a Dev post, or such.

>

 

I mentioned my guild because I am proud of my guild, these thoughts are not just my own - it's something I gathered collectively with my community. Our community is thriving and never been more active; I wanted to include that in my post as a factor in why I made the post, not because I want false importance over other people's opinion.

 

In my mind, I thought "If I mentioned my guild, it would have more of an impact because it's not just my own thoughts, it's several other people's."

 

As for the thread name change, I did not do that.

[Faaris.8013]

> @Wanze.8410 said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

>

> where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

 

Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".

 

I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @Faaris.8013 said:

> > @Wanze.8410 said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

> >

> > where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

>

> Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".

>

> I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.

 

The entire philosophy of an MMO is to feel rewarded and farm content - if the content you're farming only nets you 10g an hour, over RIBA which is at 40g an hour, does that mean our community should be happy that we cannot farm PoF in its entirety?

 

I think people really took me mentioning my guild out of context, and couldn't read past the title - I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important, but merely, add more weight to our views because it's coming from **a community of players** rather than just a singular player.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > @Faaris.8013 said:

> > > @Wanze.8410 said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

> > >

> > > where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

> >

> > Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".

> >

> > I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.

>

> The entire philosophy of an MMO is to feel rewarded and farm content - if the content you're farming only nets you 10g an hour, over RIBA which is at 40g an hour, does that mean our community should be happy that we cannot farm PoF in its entirety?

>

> I think people really took me mentioning my guild out of context, and couldn't read past the title - I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important, but merely, add more weight to our views because it's coming from **a community of players** rather than just a singular player.

 

What? The entire philosophy of a MMO is to have people enjoy the game ideally through social interaction to set it appart from single player games. This should hold true for any leisure activity or game.

 

Some people enjoy grinding, many others do not. Not all content needs to be exactly the same reward wise as long as it's fun and diverse. The rewards mean only something to part of the playerbase and are even more often than not are a means to an end, usually an item or something else for a different game mode. I doubt there is a huge chunck of players farming away thousands of gold only for the goldssake, more power to those who do but they are definately a minority.

[sigur.9453]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > > @Faaris.8013 said:

> > > > @Wanze.8410 said:

> > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

> > > >

> > > > where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

> > >

> > > Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".

> > >

> > > I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.

> >

> > The entire philosophy of an MMO is to feel rewarded and farm content - if the content you're farming only nets you 10g an hour, over RIBA which is at 40g an hour, does that mean our community should be happy that we cannot farm PoF in its entirety?

> >

> > I think people really took me mentioning my guild out of context, and couldn't read past the title - I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important, but merely, add more weight to our views because it's coming from **a community of players** rather than just a singular player.

>

> What? The entire philosophy of a MMO is to have people enjoy the game ideally through social interaction to set it appart from single player games. This should hold true for any leisure activity or game.

>

> Some people enjoy grinding, many others do not. Not all content needs to be exactly the same reward wise as long as it's fun and diverse. The rewards mean only something to part of the playerbase and are even more often than not are a means to an end, usually an item or something else for a different game mode. I doubt there is a huge chunck of players farming away thousands of gold only for the goldssake, more power to those who do but they are definately a minority.

 

Wow, now imagine a activity that is fun, profitable and you have social interaction. they wouldn´t dare.

Best stick to "choose one of the above"

[Mea.5491]

Thanks for this, I hope Anet will read it! I love your RIBA runs, I'm a huge fan of you guys. ;)

 

Edit: Look at all the people being rude just because they don't know the guild. -shakes head- Your loss, lol.

[Jahroots.6791]

> @sigur.9453 said:

> Wow, now imagine a activity that is fun, profitable and you have social interaction. they wouldn´t dare.

> Best stick to "choose one of the above"

 

In the years that I've been playing, I find that for a seeming majority of players it's the reward levels that make a bit of content fun.

 

Plinxx farm. Dungeons. Scarlet's invasions. Silverwastes. AB Multiloot. People _swarmed_ this content and not because it was particularly engaging or well designed, but because it allowed them to make progress towards their goals. We see this time and time again. The nice little social bits - banter, joking around and even entire guilds - spring up naturally around this stuff.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @Faaris.8013 said:

> > @Wanze.8410 said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?

> >

> > where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?

>

> Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".

>

> I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.

 

You know, I do want more cats in the game. So I support 'Cats in every zone'.

 

On topic: I don't like farming and grinding, so maybe I should ask ANet to add vendor selling legendary weapons and armors for copper?

Not every map is there to be farmed. Some are there for the joy of exploration and nice looking vistas.

 

It might be fun if ANet nerf all farming maps.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

Just to chime my 2 coppers into this a little after seeing many comments...

I think the topic would've been more accepted if the title was something like simply stating "My went gold farming in PoF. Here are the results" or something.

And then leave the body of the topic as is and people might 1st go "Why do we care on the guild's name?" but people might just brush it off and at least look to see what your guild found out.

 

I might not be an English specialist, but the way it's written I can see can come off as "This is the opinion of my guild and we're the ones to stand by." Kind of Asuran-y in a way which I could've seen put off some people (which it did).

Just saying.

 

Still found it interesting and I already stated my idea of farming in GW2 in a previous post.

[Nemmar.8491]

> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > @Nemmar.8491 said:

> > Btw this:

> >

> > _There are no additional awards for making the effort to physically pick up the bounty contract._

> >

> > Is a good thing.

> >

> > Can you imagine how painful it would be if you came across a bounty in the world and didn't get rewarded because you didn't go grab the bounty on the board? You go off to try and find it and it's already dead.

> > The system could work differently in how it's presented. Maybe the bounties should be visible on the map and you just click a button to accept them, but i don't really see a big problem with how it works now in that regard.

>

> Key word *additional* <- I didn't suggest nerfing current rewards, just give MORE rewards for people that make the effort to pick it up - definitely not completely remove rewards from bounties :)

 

But if they don't have the additional, they might not help out. I don't see why there has to be an additional reward to take them from the board. I actually wish the board was just integrated in it's own menu or map. I don't think it makes sense to punish someone in the reward just cause they aren't in a taxi and grabbing the bounty at the start. Even in the taxi's it's not always clear wich one people are going for and you aren't really sure what to take. I think it creates more frustration. Like, i see downsides to it being changed while there's no positives unless you are strictly in an organized taxi. All the additional rewards would do is reward the taxi's and unreward the people out in the world that may organically get to it in the map.

 

This would be like people who come across a meta event not being rewarded the same way everyone else does. Imagine, you just joined in octovine but the last room of chests is locked to you cause you weren't there at the start. Anet's design with GW2 has always been to be inclusive. I don't think it makes any sense to give the shaft to people who will organically take part in the content.

 

In short, i don't think it makes any sense to give extra rewards for taking the bounty. I think rewards should be a bit buffed across the board, but not the way it works, unless there an easy way to accept the contract out in the world. The board is used to spawn the target. You only need one person to do that.

[Harper.4173]

> @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > @Harper.4173 said:

> > The statement applies to the majority of players and is an accurate portrayal of MMO players and their motivations. It certainly applies to the majority of GW2's player base.

>

> Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalse.

>

> Honestly, it's kinda amusing to see that you assume you and your opinions represent something between the totally and the majority, or that you know what most players think. Really helps to put in context the old title of this topic, "a statement from GC".

>

> As Vayne would say, that's just your opinion. It's meaningless considering you have no way of proving it.

 

I have no means of proving it? Do you even play the same game I do?

What happened when dungeon rewards were bad? Most GW2 players only ran the one dungeon that was profitable to run (COF P1). When rewards were buffed nearly all dungeons were run. When those buffs were taken away and rewards were bad again dungeons were abandoned by the community.

Reward driven.

There are a million other examples too. I've been playing GW2 non-stop since release - and I've seen the community move and shift towards profitable endeavors and away from non-profitable ones during that period. You writing "you have no way of proving it" doesn't actually mean I have no way of proving it.

 

My statements are true, you're just upset that things are so.

 

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> > @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > The statement applies to the majority of players and is an accurate portrayal of MMO players and their motivations. It certainly applies to the majority of GW2's player base.

> >

> > Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalse.

> >

> > Honestly, it's kinda amusing to see that you assume you and your opinions represent something between the totally and the majority, or that you know what most players think. Really helps to put in context the old title of this topic, "a statement from GC".

> >

> > As Vayne would say, that's just your opinion. It's meaningless considering you have no way of proving it.

>

> I have no means of proving it? Do you even play the same game I do?

> What happened when dungeon rewards were bad? Most GW2 players only ran the one dungeon that was profitable to run (COF P1). When rewards were buffed nearly all dungeons were run. When those buffs were taken away and rewards were bad again dungeons were abandoned by the community.

> Reward driven.

> There are a million other examples too. I've been playing GW2 non-stop since release - and I've seen the community move and shift towards profitable endeavors and away from non-profitable ones during that period. You writing "you have no way of proving it" doesn't actually mean I have no way of proving it.

>

> My statements are true, you're just upset that things are so.

>

 

But they buffed the dungeons again. Yet few clear them regularly.

There is the possibility that people are already tired of 5 years old content?

 

P.S. I never did run CoF P1 when it was profitable because after the first clear it was sooooooooooo boring to do it again. So I mostly cleared it once a day or once a week.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> What happened when dungeon rewards were bad? Most GW2 players only ran the one dungeon that was profitable to run (COF P1).

 

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalse.

 

Do you have any way of proving that "most GW2 players" even used to play in dungeons?

 

See, again, you are taking your experience and assuming most players think like you do and feel like you do. Saying "most people do X" or "most people think Y" is very meaningless when you have zero data about what people actually do or do not do. I could very well say that all your points are completely worthless because "most GW2 players" don't play in dungeons and "most GW2 players" don't farm in the Silverwastes; your only counter argument would be pretty much repeating your assumptions that you represent what the majority thinks. It would be a very empty discussion, considering neither me or you know what the majority does or does not do.

 

I actually thought you were in the OP's guild. It's a very similar line of thinking.

 

 

[Alatar.7364]

Hey there,

I hope I did not misunderstand your Post too much.

Because while I agree that Bounties could receive slightly Bette rewards, I don't really see why should everything be about farming Gold, let alone 'fixed' around it.

There are already plenty options to farm Gold pretty effectively, making new options always better just because of the existing ones would lead either to 'Grind fest' or to Way-too-easy acquisition of Gold, which would most definitely make the Game boring for literally Everyone.

However, like I said, Bounties could be a bit better.

Maybe making the PoF Gold Acquisition methods at the same Level as Leather Farm or Silverwastes would be a Good Idea, because Players would have more options so they won't get bored by the same Grind all the time, while not making Gold too easy to have lots off.

[mercury ranique.2170]

> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> `Note:`

> - **Our thread title was forcefully renamed without my permission and in a very condescending PA title, also.**, this concern that we're sharing is not just that of our *community*, there are have been loads of people on the forums, in-game and Reddit giving active feedback about the unrewarding playstyle of PoF.

> - **I mentioned my guild because I am proud to be in such an active community, and to signify that these thoughts are not just my own, but also the collective ideas and feedback given by the players within CG.** It was not my intent to come across that we hold more importance over other players.

 

I see it happen often that people speak on behalf of others. At first glance, it seems like it would convince others about how strong your opinion is, but it actually isn't and it actually often invalidates the strenght of the opinion.

 

There are several reasons for it.

First, an opninion should be strong enough on it's own. It doesn't need to be backed up by others.

Second. How can you proof this is their opinion. Mayny times people agree with you for say 95% or 90%. But in those 5-10% lies the danger. you speak on their behalf. What is your mandate to speak on their behalf?

Third, even if you have a proper mandate. Why are they not voicing it on their own? Are they too lazy to sign in here and express it themselves? how important is your opinion then to them.

Fourth, I haven't been part of any democratic process to come to this opinion. Maybe, my personal opinion, might be convincing for others to withdraw the mandate given to you.

 

So to me, this is your opinion, nothing more.

 

Why do people play a game?

This answer is different for each and everyone of us. To me it is to have fun. Off course, making gold is nice, as I'm always have stuff on my wanted list, but I personally refuse to do the most profitable content just cause of that. I have never seen the joy in SW Chest farming (although I know it is profitable)

 

Perhaps you know the game Coinbox Hero? https://armorgames.com/play/12247/coinbox-hero

The main goal of this game is to hit a coinbox as often as you can for loot.If you have enough loot, you win. I find it very boring. Some of your ideas are very good. Some others, specifically, making the chest not RNG, feels like just hiting that coinbox for loot. It makes farming better, but the experience of finding it less.

 

I think the issue behind this is not the farming, but the need to play HoT. making farming gold easier with every expansion, would invalidate the items you buy with it (inflation).

Inflation in gaming happens when you make earning items too easy. Demand for an item goes up so the price goes up, but the items uniqueness goes down (the actual value). It means the value of the actual currency goes down.

The in solution my opinion is to have fareming methods unique to PoF that rewards things you can't get in other ways. To me, PoF lacks there. Not in the amount of gold you can get, but in the PoF unique currencies and the things you can get with them.

 

[Offair.2563]

If anet ever going to release Skritt as a race i can tell who is going to play one.

 

Shiniiiiies.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @scerviche.4185 said:

> Ohhh my guild is so special i have to make sure its in the topic title. Didn't read anything you typed, screw off.

 

Did you literally make your first ever forum comment one as hostile as that?

[Erasculio.2914]

> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important

 

Errrrr... Your signature is saying otherwise:

 

> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> Leader of EU's top farming, guide & research guild: [Grind Coven]

 

"Top" guild of an entire continent, huh? Sure sounds important.

 

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important

>

> Errrrr... Your signature is saying otherwise:

>

> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > Leader of EU's top farming, guide & research guild: [Grind Coven]

>

> "Top" guild of an entire continent, huh? Sure sounds important.

>

 

But my signature isn't relevant to this post, it's a quick TL;DR of our guild for people who don't know CG - I posted our guild tag because we talked as a community about highlighting issues, not because I wanted to use it as a momentum for bragging - I'm glad the issues that we highlighted are getting due attention, though.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> * **Silverwastes RIBA farming can generate 30-40g/hour** (based on previous work by CG & others). Requires particular methods and conversion of bandit crests to reach that amount

 

Has the bolded been proven to be accurate?

 

I only ask because there was a Reddit thread earlier in the year from a guild leader who regularly did the RIBA farm and claimed it to be around 20G/hr. Prices certainly haven’t increased since then. Players have a bad habit of not accounting for all of the time spent.

 

 

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @Ayrilana.1396 said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > * **Silverwastes RIBA farming can generate 30-40g/hour** (based on previous work by CG & others). Requires particular methods and conversion of bandit crests to reach that amount

>

> Has the bolded been proven to be accurate?

>

> I only ask because there was a Reddit thread earlier in the year from a guild leader who regularly did the RIBA farm and claimed it to be around 20G/hr. Prices certainly haven’t increased since then. Players have a bad habit of not accounting for all of the time spent.

>

>

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dakotacoty/cg-sw-riba-2800-gold-in-two-weeks/1582631455140649/

 

There you go.

 

Do note:

The math is made on commander's efficiency, hasn't been majorly updated since PoF launched but we are planning to do that when our website goes live.

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Regardless, I'd not posted an opinion about any issue; just wondered who this CG was, and why they, more than any other poster on Reddit, needed their statement linked here, or why I should go out of my way to visit Reddit.

 

No one specifically said their statement __needed__ to be linked here, or encouraged anyone to check Reddit for that matter.

 

The CG is a very well-known Silverwastes farming guild in EU, and they have the experience of thousands of Silverwaste runs. Many players are interested in the data they provide, and their topic in Reddit spurred a big discussion. The OP decided to bring the same discussion here as well, for those who are interested in the subject but don't go to reddit. Many big Reddit topics have been recreated here in the past for that same reason, just like this one.

[Alatar.7364]

I am not sure why is everybody directing their attention at 'Why did the OP _mention_ his/hers Guild' rather than at the Topic at Hand which seems far more important and meaningful than yours literally petty feel of offense.

[Djinn.9245]

> @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> I don't think its needed for everything to be profitable. Its ofcourse needed for certain longterm goals, but PoF seems profitable enough to me.

>

> Then again the prospect that random treasure hunts should be fixed by making them not random seems like silliness to me. "Oh no its not profitable enough even when we use this obnoxious way of getting as much loot as possible. Make it so this obnoxious farm method actually works!" Seriously? How about making more fun content more rewarding rather than making the most boring way of playing the game rewarding.

>

 

I completely disagree. The fact is that there needs to be reasonable rewards for people to want to keep maps populated. That is why Silverwastes continues to be populated even though it is 3 years old.

 

There is nothing wrong with people wanting decent rewards, and map Metas were specifically designed so player would continue to populate a map. The incentive to do the meta is the reward. Although the OP is talking about gold farming, all other players don't have to gold farm to gain from a map's gold farming profitability. If a map is popular, players profit because they can go back to that map and have less difficulty because it is populated with other players who can help. If metas are being done regularly because they are profitable that makes it easier for players to do their achievements and collections. It doesn't have to be about gold.

 

Currently PoF metas are not done on a regular basis making collections difficult for players that have not done them yet.