Feedback on the new gemstore Pack

[Eowin Of Rohan.2619]

Hi,

 

As you may see in m history (and my 2nd main account's history !), I actually buy a lot of stuff from the gemstore so when I say I'd buy things it's real :).

 

Today a new "Pack" was released. I feel that is follows a trend where gemstore packs are not appealing anymore, mostly because of the pricing being too close to the total price of contents.

This one contains

- 1 BLT skin lootbox. I estimate this around 400 gems. Why ? Simply because I can't estimate it at the same price as directly buying standalone gemstore weapon skins (600 gems), because it's akin to the recent mount lootboxes (400 gems if you buy one by one) (yes it's not account bound afaik but it's also a lot more rng due to not having the guaranteed unlock mechanic), and lastly because 400 gems are ..more.. than enough to buy gold to get any skin on TP when it comes out in the BL tickets (if I didn't to that when the skin came out, do I really want to pay more now ?)

- 2 dye kit packs. Easy, that's 2x500 = 1000 gems atm.

- 1 outfit. The values vary, it's usually around 700 gems.

- 1 BL key pack with 10 keys and 1 gold key. I'll evaluate this around 800 gems. Why ? Because that's half the price of a discounted 25 keys pack (1400-1600 gems) where the gold key would be worth 2.5 regular keys (seems ok). Why do I use the discount key value ? Because it's a pack and, on top of having its own discount, it means that I'm probably buying things that I didn't really intend to buy immediately at full price otherwise (or I'd have bought those yesterday already). Keys that I didn't really intend to buy are keys that I'd have bought during next sale.

- 1 transformation pack. I know that the things in it are sold for gems otherwise, but I'll evaluate this at **0** gems. Why ? Those are literally worthless for me, they're all obtainlable ingame and I have a lot of kits in my bank (on top of the ones I used for my numerous alts) as well as countless charges. Why are you insisting on putting those things in Packs ? :(

 

The total of my evaluations is 2900 gems, yet the pack price is 3000 gems. I know I was not very generous in my evaluations but a pack should come with a nice discount to begin with, shouldn't it ?

Here are the possible scenarios for me to buy a pack, and I guess they're not too far off for a lot of other potential clients :

- I kinda want some of the items in there, which I would otherwise buy with gems at some point. Basically if the price is around the value of what I wanted I can think "oh well, let's buy now and get the rest of the pack as a nice bonus !". Work for, max, the price of 3 out of 5 main components of a Pack (more like 2.5 out of 4 here since I eliminated the transfo thing won't bring value for a lot of people).

- I kinda had no intent to buy those things, at least for now until big sales, but I see the pack and *boom* am attracted by the sale to get a lot of items at a nice price. I spend gems that I would probably not have spent at all if the Pack wasn't there. Works if the price is a nice discount. Given that it's random things put together in a bundle, it means that the price must be lower than the total of what the content's prices would be during an anniversary/wintersday/whatever sale.

 

In none of those scenarios, is a price tag at 3000 correct.

 

I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying "oh look it's too expensive, I'll go rant even if no one forces me to buy". I actually think that the trend with packs priced near the total value of their content may be hurting sales badly, which is why I bring feedback here.

As far as I'm concerned, don't really need and didn't intend to buy any of the pack's components ... but has it been at an attractive price, (1600 gems max), I would probably have bought it ... on both accounts ... at max amount. In other words, I would have spent 6400 gems (= 80€). But it happened to be extremely un appealing with this 3k price tag so I spent ... 0€ :( . Again, my purchase history on both accounts (as well as 4 alts that got an account boost pack they didn't need just because it had appealing price!) will show you that I'm serious when I say I would buy.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I just want the Universal Outfit Ticket sold separate. I really have no use for the rest of it whatsoever.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

The best feedback is to stop buying gems at all.

[Sobx.1758]

That was a terrible pricing on your part to begin with. If you want to make a point, don't lowball everything for the sake of having any argument at all. The fact that "you don't want something in the pack", doesn't magically change its value to 0.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> That was a terrible pricing on your part to begin with. If you want to make a point, don't lowball everything for the sake of having any argument at all. The fact that "you don't want something in the pack", doesn't magically change its value to 0.

 

Ahhh what? Did you read any of it.

He did a fine estimate at what each item would be worth. He didn't even value the transmutation charges, which would still make it a "not worth the money value"

He is not wrong saying it is over priced. These are not physical item and Anet can make as many as they damn well please.

He is not wrong in the statement of it should of been 1600. I would of snatched that up quick.

 

3k gems? Are you kidding me? A sucker is born every minute, and Anet knows how to feed.

[Eowin Of Rohan.2619]

I didn't "lowball" anything. I explained for each part how I got the value. And contrarily to your accusation, I did it in this order : (1) list the things and evaluate them (2) calculate total (3) compare with price. Not the other way around to "try to make a point" !

Anyway it doesn't matter if my total is 2900, 2000 or 3500 the point is the same (even at 4000 tbh). Read what my arguments plz.

[starlinvf.1358]

The first problem here is the presumption that all discounts have to be significant. Its a trick based on the Anchoring effect, where you're trying to convince the buyer that something is worth more then they're paying, and many places will inflate the normal price to make the sale price look even better by comparison. This perception of "deep discount" is pretty well explained in essays about the JC Penny Effect, and set a huge precedent for the design of micro-transaction systems that adopts almost identical methods; which is further aided by the disconnect between $ and Point(Gem) currency systems.

 

The second problem is you've missed the point of the way they do bundles. They're designed to get you to invest in something you don't care about in order to reach thing things you do. You may better recognize this is as Combo meals. You're paying for a bunch of things that you were planning on getting together, along with some things you aren't strictly against, and the minor discount is to ensure its more convenient then getting them separately. You could get just a burger and drink, or just a burger and fries, but they push the combo meal hard on a subconscious level to drag you into that higher total purchase.... but in your mind, "I usually get these together, so I may as well this time too". There are also many major fast food chains that figured out pair their foods for the highest satisfaction level for a meal, and use that to design their combo meals. McDonalds practically perfected their fries, and developed a custom variant of Coke, to perfectly compliment all of their sandwiches. Its so perfect, its very noticeable and less satisfying to have them without the complimenting fries and drink.

 

This particular make over bundle is designed as a catch all for people who aren't directly interested in most of the previous bundles, but can't Ala cart all the items they're after. The main anchor for this is the Outfit ticket (which can get off season outfits), with the makeover pack and dye kits there to reinforce it by further ensuring your look can match your new outfit. The Weapon box is there to sweeten the deal, as its not reliable, but at least its not unusable. The BL keys are there to round out the value of the package so it falls into the desired price point. Again, this is designed to lure you in by a deep discount for a bulk spending, its getting you to invest in extra "unoffensive" items to get the item you want most.

[Shikigami.4013]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> The best feedback is to stop buying gems at all.

It is not, because then Arenanet never knows if you just don't have any money anymore, or which of the many items that people complain about in general made him stop buying gems. Feedback on the forums about which item and for what reason one is not happy with it is the best way to let them know, just as he did.

"Voting with your wallet" is just empty words as long as the company has no way to know why people are stopping to spend money.

[Eowin Of Rohan.2619]

I very well saw how it is supposed to bring me into buying things that I would otherwise not buy, I just didn't use terms like "anchoring". Also the whole point I make is that there is no "deep discount", neither apparent / psychological, nor real. Which is where it goes wrong. Had it been 1600, I would have viewed it as "deep discount" and probably bought it even if I don't really need anything in it. At 3000 I feel that I'm actually paying for everything in there (I felt that even before calculating, that's why I did calculate and made the post) ... so I just don't buy because why spend 3k gems for things I don't need if I can just spend less later if I happen to want whatever item(s) was included in the package ?

I didn't miss the point on the way they do bundles, I make a point to explain why I think they did it wrong precisely because they didn't manage to "anchor" me this time.

[Nikal.4921]

I'm thinking if we could choose both weapon skin and outfit, it might be worth 1600 gems. To someone maybe. Not to me. I prefer to wait for outfit discounts and I buy the weapon skins I want with gold.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I get different values from the OP.

* If you choose a cheap outfit and end up with a 30g weapon skin, it will be worth barely less than 3000 gems.

* If you choose the Wedding Attire, it will be worth 3400 gems.

* If you get lucky in your BL weapon skin (and ignoring the BL keys and dyes), it could be worth a lot more.

 

****

**Retail Price Values**

 

* BL Universal outfit (any gem shop outfit released prior to Awakened Zealot): value 500-1000 gems

* Makeover Pack: Makeover Kit + 5x xmute charges = 500 gems

* Dragon's Watch Dye Pack x2 (each offers 5 kits that have a small chance each of an exclusive dye) =1000 gems

* Black Lion Key Set: 10 BL Keys, 1 Golden Black Lion Key = 900-1200 gems (the "GBL" can't be bought; I'd estimate it at double the regular key's value)

* BL Weapon Arsenal: single, random BL weapon skin; can't be bought. Estimated 50g of value, i.e. ~200 gems.

 

**Totals**

 

* Total Value of the parts that can be bought: 2900 _minimum_, 3400 max.

* Total Estimated Value (assuming less-than-bad-luck): 3900 gems

 

****

I also find this pack consistent with other bundles: its value depends heavily on "fringe benefit" items that have no importance to me. e.g. I would never spend 1000 gems on RNG dye packs, when I could buy the dyes on the TP directly.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Incidentally, if your hope for the BL skin is purely mercenary, i.e. you just want the best chance of getting the most gold for a skin, then this might be of use. I've calculated the median value of the highest buy offers for each weapon type, i.e. half of the skins are worth more and half are worth less. The results are as follows

 

* > 70g: Scepter, Sword, Torch

* 60-70g: axe, dagger, GS, rifle, shield, shortbow, staff,

* 50-60g: longbow, pistol,

* 40-50g: all other terrestrial weapons (I didn't calculate for underwater ones)

 

[Charrbeque.8729]

> @Nikal.4921 said:

> I'm thinking if we could choose both weapon skin and outfit, it might be worth 1600 gems. To someone maybe. Not to me. I prefer to wait for outfit discounts and I buy the weapon skins I want with gold.

 

Judging from the looks of things that what Dulfy posted http://dulfy.net/2017/11/21/gw2-gemstore-evon-gnasblade-package-mini-kormeerkat/ you choose a weapon type (like greatsword or pistol) and get a _random_ skin for the type you chose. Judging by a comment on Dulfy, it seems you get an actual black lion weapon skin that you can sell if you don't want it, or it's a skin you already have. http://dulfy.net/2017/11/21/gw2-gemstore-evon-gnasblade-package-mini-kormeerkat/#comment-3627263748 Basically, it's a black lion claim ticket with less choice (random skin for chosen type instead of the exact skin you want).

 

As for outfit: it sounds like you can _choose_ any outfit from the gem store that was released before the Awakened Zealot outfit.

 

Personally, I don't find any value in this bundle and won't be purchasing it.

[Kapax.3801]

I would like the prices to be the same that you get when buying gems ... that package should be worth 2800 = $ 35

they should also put more options for gem packages, like 400 = 5 $

[Witch of Doom.5739]

I don't have a problem with the bundle although there's way too much RNG in it for me to even consider purchasing.

[Leo G.4501]

> @Shikigami.4013 said:

> It is not, because then Arenanet never knows if you just don't have any money anymore, or which of the many items that people complain about in general made him stop buying gems. Feedback on the forums about which item and for what reason one is not happy with it is the best way to let them know, just as he did.

> "Voting with your wallet" is just empty words as long as the company has no way to know why people are stopping to spend money.

 

I dunno, they pay people thousands to analyze buyers and their habits. Feedback is helpful but it's not 100% accurate either.

[Atonement.8021]

Ignoring the RNG elements as part of this (which I will never support), I'm getting pretty disheartened with the high cost bundles Anet are tending to lean towards at the moment. It honestly makes me uninterested in supporting the game financially - I don't mind paying for 800 gems here and there (£8.50 in the UK, which would be roughly equivalent to a monthly sub fee for another MMO), but when more and more options tend towards me having to spend sometimes even more than £30 in one go (as a fairly casual player I don't have much gold at all to convert to gems), it leaves a bit of a sour taste to say the least. Not that it really matters to Anet, someone willing to drop that amount consistently makes up for about 3 or 4 people like me, but if this trend continues I'll probably just stop with gem purchases altogether.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @Atonement.8021 said:

> Ignoring the RNG elements as part of this (which I will never support), I'm getting pretty disheartened with the high cost bundles Anet are tending to lean towards at the moment.

 

Big bundles have always been thousands of gems, with 1/3 to 1/2 of the value in 'fluff' such as transmutation charges, BL keys, and Dye Packs. The cheaper bundles (which they are also still using) are limited to things like backpack + matching glider, gizmo + matching glider, and the like; sometimes the items are available separately and sometimes not.

 

In other words, this package isn't particularly unusual for GW2.

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> I just want the Universal Outfit Ticket sold separate. I really have no use for the rest of it whatsoever.

 

 

 

That's just buying the outfit you want

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Fenom.9457 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > I just want the Universal Outfit Ticket sold separate. I really have no use for the rest of it whatsoever.

>

>

>

> That's just buying the outfit you want

 

Yeah but the thing is the bloody outfits come out once every "When Arenanet feel like it"

I rather they make the Universal Outfit Ticket permanent and just set it like 1000 gems or something.

Many outfits are lower than that, but if people are not willing to wait for Arenanet to put sometimes the same item up in the gem store one month and bring back that SAME item within a month or two but then other items once or twice a year... they can just buy the outfit they want for 1000 gems and say to hell with the 300 extra cost.

 

I'm sure many might even buy as much of those ticket as there are outfits before the zealot of they wanted them too.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> I rather they make the Universal Outfit Ticket permanent and just set it like 1000 gems or something.

 

That's an intriguing idea.

I don't think it would work in practice: aside from people complaining that ANet was gouging by deliberately moving skins out of the store (and claim that they are being _forced_ to purchase the ticket), it also undermines about half the principles for artificial scarcity. Like it or not, artificial scarcity generates more sales and makes the items feel special (familiarity breeds contempt, after all).

 

However, I'd love for the gem shop team to consider it, if not for outfits then maybe for other things. Would you consider a new thread to propose this? (Or maybe it belongs in the [sticky for gem shop ideas](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/348/suggestions-gemstore-items).) I'll :+1: it wherever it ends up, too.

 

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

They're doing an awfully good job at ensuring I never spend any money on this game ever again.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

none of whats in here seems worth it

[Atonement.8021]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @Atonement.8021 said:

> > Ignoring the RNG elements as part of this (which I will never support), I'm getting pretty disheartened with the high cost bundles Anet are tending to lean towards at the moment.

>

> Big bundles have always been thousands of gems, with 1/3 to 1/2 of the value in 'fluff' such as transmutation charges, BL keys, and Dye Packs. The cheaper bundles (which they are also still using) are limited to things like backpack + matching glider, gizmo + matching glider, and the like; sometimes the items are available separately and sometimes not.

>

> In other words, this package isn't particularly unusual for GW2.

 

But the tendency towards larger bundles is becoming more common now, I am fully aware that in present day GW2 these bundles are not unusual. It's not just the bundles, I was also thinking about single items like the reforged warhound jackal skin, or the waypoint unlock package, or the level 80 booster are high cost items that you have to purchase in one hit.

 

My point is it's becoming harder and harder to support Anet with smaller ticket purchases for new gem store items.

[DeanBB.4268]

I bought it. I thought the bundle was fun, with lots of "opportunity" if you know what I mean. I'm also in a place in life where money for gems is no problem.

 

I haven't decided which character will wear a new outfit, so haven't chosen one to fit them yet. I chose axe for the BL weapon and got one I didn't care for, so sold it for 135g. Only got one dye for the main account, so will pass the rest along to the other accounts. The keys gave me a couple new skins, one I could have sold for 35g, but chose to unlock.

 

I'm happy with the decision to buy the pack... but now I gotta go buy another gems card.